Dead Men Walking

I've included enough options in the above to keep anyone happy and more options than I believe we have available to us under our own rules.

In my opinion we cannot kick or ban him from any Company or Community as he does not have a history of such problems. I therefore personally believe that only the last two options are valid.

I voted for a written warning.  

I am happy to draft such a warning but would expect it to be sent to Ninja by another Admin and not from me, Oldbloke or BlueBall for obvious reasons.

Your thoughts gentlemen please.....

TL.

I was torn between do nothing and the written warning. I know that some of you might be surprised that I considered do nothing but his response to TL was, as stated, as contrite as we are going to see.

I elected to go for the written warning purely due to his comments regarding the fact that he feels it was unfair for an admin to add comments and not let him reply.I don't think the message has sunk in yet that the comments were posted because NF had made things public but only part of the story and he had left out the bit about swearing on voice comms.

In my opinion NF has a track history of twisting things to suit himself and I think he needs to start taking a deep breath before posting sometimes.

My decision to ban was in direct response to NF's reply to the warning delivered as a server message. BF2 admins have the ability to deliver those messages as well as being delivered by automated server response (for typed obscenities). NF's swearing was both verbal and written. He was warned verbally and by server message. He response (including a thinly disguised use of the 'c' word) to the server warning was totally against our expected player standards and I suspect that any admin would have taken the same action as me. In my opinion that comment was aimed directly at an admin, not at the server as he has stated.

As admins we need to feel we can take quick and appropriate action to protect the community without having to worry if the decision we made strictly adhered to the admin standards. If an unrecognised TKer joined the server and started to cap his team would the other players be content while we issued him with two warnings before banning his TANGO? Not likely. Some actions are just 'right' and a long way from 'admin abuse'.

Which leads me on to the forum posts made after the ban was made - which, incidently, was delivered by BF2CC which flashes up a message saying 'Banning xxxx for swearing in 10 secs'. The message is repeated as it counts down. How NF failed to see this is beyond me.

My reply to NF's initial 'Why The Tango have I been kicked from our server??' was short and to the point ...

QuoteYou were not kicked, you were banned.

You were asked to cut out the swearing. Your reply was totally out of order and, quite frankly, should you ever repeat such an outburst on *any* server you will no longer be a dMw member. Grow up or ship out.

Now I don't know about you but if that was said about me I'd be thinking 'Oops. Went a bit too far it seems'. But NF's reaction was to laugh off his reply to the server as a joke and to immediately call in to question my impartiality as well as the impartiality of the dMw admins...

QuotePerhaps OB you are just using your powers as an Admin against me personally? I do not know nor do I understand why you would speak to me in such a condescending manner. I have been a loyal member of dMw for over three years now and I object to being treated like this.

Although I doubt that I will receive an impartial ruling on this I intend on making a formal complaint against you OB for what I see as an abuse of your authority. In the mean time, I will remove my -=[dMw]=- tag from my Steam account name. Unfortunately due to the limitation of BF2 I will not be able to change my tag name immediately but I will begin looking into it forthwith.

Does this sound like someone with dMw's best intentions at heart?

This has been a lengthy post (for me that is) but I feel as if this is being settled as a 'knock-for-knock' agreement when, IMHO, NF has shown himself to be unsuitable for membership of 'Charlie' and probably 'Bravo' too for that matter. However, because of his long period of trouble-free membership I've voted to demote him to Bravo.

A formal warning from admins should do the job ..The part im not happy with is the dig at Oldie. No need for that at all. Yes we all know the old one is a power hungey dictator of dMw but we put up with it  ;)

I also have asked him to calm his language before on CS

Forget that ^^^^

After reading thru the posts again I can see where Oldie is coming from.. Im very proud to wear the tag and uphold the dMw ethics on any server/game I play. How many other servers is he trash talkin on using the tag. Sorry but dMw ask nothing of its members but to follow rules and and not spoil the enjoyment of peoples game. Im of the thought that Charlie people were examples to the comunity

So if he wants to offer an apology to Oldie then I would only bounce him to alpha/bravo if not then out ya go. I just dont think he has a handle on the type game dMw try to offer

QuoteOriginally posted by JonnyAppleSeed@Dec 12 2005, 08:22 PM
So if he wants to offer an apology to Oldie then I would only bounce him to alpha/bravo if not then out ya go. I just dont think he has a handle on the type game dMw try to offer

[post=104947]Quoted post[/post]

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Finally JAS i agree with you on something.

My issue is the bad attitude to the warning and Oldie. If he appologises to Oldie then fine knock him down if not out the door.

I was torn between banning him completely or a written warning for this reason. If you demote him it would be the same as a ban, only he'd ban himself.(well I would if it was me!) I've never had any trouble with NF so I feel I'm looking at this from the outside and it should never have got this far. Let me hasten to add, NOT from Oldies POV. I feel he acted correctly. The mistake was NF's for not accepting he was OOO (out of order. Just made that up :) ) So he made the storm in his own teacup. I opted for a Written. I might add that if there is another outburst he should be banned from dMw without any nonsense. One PM, "You're banned". Change passwords get back to life as we know it.
Must stop now, I'm starting to dribble.

iam witth OB and JAS on this..but i dont think my vote counts imo :(
saying that i think if we do demote him he will leave on his own accord.... :unsure:

I voted Alpha
I was waiting to see if he posted an apology to oldie as i agree with Jas so if no apology show him the door.

 Ive said it before we dont need people like that wearing the dmw tag so, I say take it away!

Bloody marvelous! He's turning into a folk hero.  :eyebrow:

QuoteOriginally posted by Doorman@Dec 14 2005, 07:16 PM
Bloody marvelous! He's turning into a folk hero. :eyebrow:

[post=105305]Quoted post[/post]

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Mmm, we might have to do something about this. <_<

QuoteOriginally posted by BlueBall@Dec 14 2005, 07:24 PM
Mmm, we might have to do something about this. <_<

[post=105308]Quoted post[/post]

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Leave it! It's done, it's dusted.

I was sure I had posted a reply about this.

Whatever decision we make it must be by the rules.  Otherwise it will come and bite us in the bum.

Does anyone see a problem with demoting him where our current rules are concerned?

TL.

Let's mull it over during the weekend and come to a decision sunday? Gives us all a chance to read the rules properly ;)

Well, this is one week on and decision day.  We need to reply to Ninja by tonight.

Any final comments before I come up with a decision by myself?

Btw, a demotion to Bravo is my opinion on the current concensus.  If I hear nothing then I will follow that action through later tonight and will do so in a PM to ninja.

TL.

Ninja PM'd me and reminded me that it was day 7.  I told him I would send hima  response later today.

TL.

Nothing to add TL. Our rules would seem to be being complied with. However, the vote is split 4 for demotion and 4 for warning so we need a deciding/casting vote just to be squeeky clean I would guess.

I took the deciding vote to be the 3 members who voted for demotion to Alpha.  So I figured that the majority voted for demotion and that this was the view that would carry the day 7 - 4.  In my PM to him I intend to include a summary of the vote, not identifying any person, but things like the 7-4, to allow him to understand the impact his outburst has had on the community and its Admins.

TL.

QuoteOriginally posted by TeaLeaf@Dec 19 2005, 12:14 PM
I took the deciding vote to be the 3 members who voted for demotion to Alpha. So I figured that the majority voted for demotion and that this was the view that would carry the day 7 - 4. In my PM to him I intend to include a summary of the vote, not identifying any person, but things like the 7-4, to allow him to understand the impact his outburst has had on the community and its Admins.

TL.

[post=105935]Quoted post[/post]

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Much clearer now. Happy with that decision! :D

I'm happy too.

We will need to consider the question of how and when he can re-apply for Charlie (if he wants to) and incorporating that into the rules.

QuoteMessage Forwarded From TeaLeaf

Ninja, thanks for being patient.

The Admins reviewed your reaction to the banning from our BF2 server and considered several options as to how to proceed. The options ranged from a 'do nothing' to an outright ban from the dMw servers. Each option was debated and the Admins finally signed off an agreement this evening.

The bottom line was that the Admins were extremely shocked by your reaction and insistence on using the forums as a place to publically debate and make allegations (proven or not proven). It was not the actions we expected from a member of the community and certainly not of one from Charlie Company.

The Admins voted 7-4 to demote you to a lower Company. The decision as to whether to demote you to Alpha Company (and therefore lose your dMw wings) or to Bravo Company was somewhat closer with demotion to Bravo Company winning by a single vote.

Regretably, the decision is therefore to demote you to Bravo Company.

We do not wish you to leave the community, indeed we would not even rule out accepting you back into Charlie Company at some point in the future should you choose to apply, but the decision does represent how seriously the Admins viewed your public airing of what shoudl have been an adult and private exchange of views as per the Member Standards.

I have already changed your forum grouping and want to assure you that I have no intention of publicising the demotion on the forums unless you choose to do so.

I hope you understand this decision and hope to see you on the servers tonight. You have a contribution to make to the community and we would welcome it again.

TL.

As ever, nicely worded TL. Thanks for doing all the hard work on this one :clap:

He's gifted I tell ya :thumb:

Clearly there's still some anymosity here, but what they hey, it's Christmas so let's move on.

TL.

QuoteMessage Forwarded From TeaLeaf

QuoteOriginally posted by Ninja_Freak


I think it's weak..

L8rs

Ninja, as the bearer of the message I'm sorry you feel that way.  

I am hoping that some good old time will heal the wounds that both sides of the argument feel the have had inflicted upon them.  

See you on the servers.

TL.

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QuoteOriginally posted by Ninja_Freak
Me too but for now....

Hopefully things will be different at LAN-time...