We are starting to get some really good numbers on certain nights...
One upshot of this is we are starting to get more than one squad...The downside is keeping the two squads informed of what either is up too.
- Obviously having a Commander to co-ordinate the two squads would be ideal.
We can, if people prefer, say yes to a Commander (on a specific night) but no to artillary.
But having a Super-Squad Leader (which is what teh Commander is) would be great for trying out two squad tactics (pinsor attackes and infiltrations).
What do people think?
Actually - to answer my own post - Scuicidal Monkey came up with a good solution to this in another post...
Why don't we try Team Speak out again?
This way the SL can keep tabs on both squads and co-ordinate the two.
All we have to do is say that the SL of Squad A is the senior SL (Commander in other words) and he can give his orders to Squad 2!
No Commanader required...
Although it might get a bit noisy! (It was starting to get a bit 'shouty' last night - I couldn't hear my SL sometimes. Was OK when we made a small squad of 3 though).
The trouble is that everyone thinks they have the best ideas and some people decide to 'ignore' the SL.
'Oh I am nearly in the next flags capture zone, I'll wait just in case/until they cap the previous one so I can cap this'.
Mostly this means that the squad is down one member so if they are in a fight over a flag it could be mean they'll lose because they don't have your elite skills.
I think it is worth dispensing with your ego and following the SLs orders. OK bring some constructive ideas to the table and agree deviations from the overall plan. But ostensibly the aim is to be a grunt. Grunt follow orders. How many times does a PFC decide I won't go there and die I'll go hide here instead where I can get a couple of kills.
I know I am also guilty of doing this and not pointing fingers at anyone in particular at all.
It just might be worth playing as a proper squad and listening to the SL. :whistle:
:withstupid:
Squads work well when it's all infantry. but as soon as you end up with pilots & drivers it soon fragments a 6 man team. One answer is for pilots and a like to create other squads. but then you end up not talking to anyone all night. and the chat is what makes dmw great.
Ts would be good. but irregulars would not join. and team swapping becomes a major pain in the TANGO.
QuoteOriginally posted by Sn00ks@Dec 13 2005, 03:57 PM
The trouble is that everyone thinks they have the best ideas and some people decide to 'ignore' the SL.
[post=105051]Quoted post[/post]
I think team work has improved a lot, so maybe that is a bit strong. Imho dmw's follow orders perfectly.
A good way to reduce it - imho - is to make the SL relay info to the squad. Even if it is simple and obvious stuff like a flag going neutral. When I am fighting to stay alive I don't have time to mind flags, and when that particular fighting is over, I don't have the big picture anymore. And I should not have, as a grunt. That is when I like the SL to say stuff like "guys, we lost that flag, we don't have anyone there, so you and you fall back since you are closest etc". Constant information flow, which I of course ignore in fighting unless directly relevant, keeps me happy and efficient as a grunt :) And explaining the big picture convinces me.
I have a tiny rant, all for my own account here, you can then ignore it all you want :D Having troops on the ground, when the battle is dug in, is more important than jets and helis, when we are few players. So when I am SL I prefer to have ppl on the ground. Even APCs are not that dangerous when a squad works. Keep the SL hidden and protected from air, he orders AT's when troops spawn, and that APC is done with. there, said it :blush:
QuoteOriginally posted by delanvital@Dec 13 2005, 03:16 PM
I have a tiny rant, all for my own account here, you can then ignore it all you want :D Having troops on the ground, when the battle is dug in, is more important than jets and helis, when we are few players. So when I am SL I prefer to have ppl on the ground. Even APCs are not that dangerous when a squad works. Keep the SL hidden and protected from air, he orders AT's when troops spawn, and that APC is done with. there, said it :blush:
[post=105060]Quoted post[/post]
I know I was one of the people last night who spent a while in the air. I did feel... guilty I guess is the word... at not being a grunt on the ground with the rest of my squad, but I kept getting 0wned by various people in choppers, who never seemed to die (Guarding the anti-air guns very well too. Fair play to them). Of course I spawn back at base and as soon as I turn up in a jet all the choppers have vanished ;)
The problem is a chopper with a good gunner can take out a 6 squad with out breaking sweat. The same as Tanks. Infantry is only one piece of a battle plan.
the ideal thing would be for ea to get of the fat money taking butts and listen to what us and everyone else on the ea forums is saying "give us customisable squad sizes"!!!!!!!!
I have to agree with Sn00ks, sometimes calls for people to come back and defend a flag are ignored as the 'red mist' takes over. The basic rule is to do what your SL tells you to do. Then if you fail you can at least blame him! :D
Last night I was only getting into a plane when there were other enemy planes and choppers about. When we needed ground defence I would abandon the plane and help.
On Daqing we were being raped by the enemy at the powerstation but we had planes and choppers up when they did not. Those personnel if on the ground would have given us the ability to push onto the next base while holding the current one. You can't really give support to a defending squad in a plane as a bombing run just kills your teammates. Choppers aren't the same and can give good support because they can hover on the flag and use more accurate weapons to decimate grunts.
My calls for people to abandon the aircraft and get on the floor with us fell on deaf ears within my squad (I was SL).
On Dragon valley I did some initial bombing runs of the Vista before bailing out to help the SL take the flag. After that I was with our SL (Norm) until we started getting pestered by another plane. When I died I said I would get a plane and take out the enemy and did so. After that we were on a roll and I gave air support and kept the choppers away.
They tried to take the village back and so I went back to ground forces to defend the village and never touched an aircraft for the rest of the map.
If you feel you have a good enough reason to reject your SL's commands then tell him why. He may not be aware of your situation. On the other hand, he may be more aware than you are and still tell you to get your ass to where he says because he has a gameplan that he wants following. Also if you find a situation then let your SL know, the more info he has the better he can deploy the squad.
A lot of people don't like being SL, so give the person that ends up doing it all your support and follow his orders. If he's not giving any then ask him to let someone else take SL.
dragon valley was cool, i also go into a chopper when needed and was in the plane a lot as they had one up but instead of bombing our team he kept trying to shoot me down, thus not bombing our guys, thus helping us in a weird way and when anti tank or a sniper was needed on the ground on my next fly past would i would jump to the s/l's location or respawn there.
QuoteOriginally posted by sulky_uk@Dec 13 2005, 05:44 PM
dragon valley was cool, i also go into a chopper when needed and was in the plane a lot as they had one up but instead of bombing our team he kept trying to shoot me down, thus not bombing our guys, thus helping us in a weird way and when anti tank or a sniper was needed on the ground on my next fly past would i would jump to the s/l's location or respawn there.
[post=105094]Quoted post[/post]
Yup, I came up to help you take out the jet that was always on your tail (I think, in the end, he crashed into a hill trying to avoid us). Then as you said, we went back to capping/defending the flags on the ground with Norm.
I'm not sure if there is anything already out there, but I will look at disabling certain commander features so that only UAV's and Supplies remain. Scanning is useful, but I think a little battlefield blindness adds to the game.
Of course, if I do find a way then I will make options for each to be enabled or disabled.
Might not be possible, but I'll have a play anyway.
Must admit I actually enjoyed being SL alot last night,have to agree with Lib on the tell your SL anything that YOU think is important.Flow of info is probably the most important thing to an SL and after a while you seem to be able to absorb a huge percentage of what you are being told. GG's :D
Good games last night, although Dragon Valley - the map with vista point anyways - really got on my nerves...
My two pence:
This is especially concerning the dragon valley where obviously the initial battle took place. I was playing on the chinese team defending. We got seriously plastered by choppers and planes and I spawned and died, spawned and died continously. I suggested to my SL (wasn't it you Snooks?) that I would bring down the chopper from our main base to try and divert the attention from my squad on the ground. After all, if someone is spraying the other chopper with missiles, he's not exactly prone to pay all his attention to taking out the guys on the ground. He'll try to stay alive and get the hell out of there, thus relieving the squad of a lot of pressure.
But. Because of the intense action and communication I couldn't get my word across to the SL or at least I couldn't hear his answer. Figuring since I didn't do any good on the ground anyhow, dying all the time, I eventually just went ahead and did it.
On my way back 'it was told' over the comm that we needed everybody on the ground. I don't know if it was aimed directly towards me, but being in a chopper at the time I took it that way :)
I then told the SL of my idea and got a 'oh, ok'-ish reply, not really sure if he thought it was a good idea or not. I don't know if it even paid off at all, and hadn't I been such a crap shot in the attack-chopper my idea might have worked out better.
I'm normally all for being bossed around and doing what I'm told (I'm used to that at home ;) ) but last night I felt really useless on the ground, and with the pressure coming from the enemy's air support, I missed someone to go after them...
All this just to explain my actions and why I didn't follow orders at the time. No disrespect towards my SL at all. Please don't take it that way ;)
Mono is right. If your squad is getting pounded by air, you normally need to get something in the air to counter it.
Agreed, you explained your reasons and the SL absorbed it and agreed (Sn00ks never sounds sure :D).
Flow of information is a wonderful thing. :learn:
Another thing a good squad leader should do is keep talking to his squad. even if it is just repeating orders or spawn locations.
Remember most grunts have a 5 second memory. left on there own they get up to all sorts :)
QuoteOriginally posted by Sn00ks@Dec 13 2005, 02:57 PM
The trouble is that everyone thinks they have the best ideas and some people decide to 'ignore' the SL.
'Oh I am nearly in the next flags capture zone, I'll wait just in case/until they cap the previous one so I can cap this'.
Mostly this means that the squad is down one member so if they are in a fight over a flag it could be mean they'll lose because they don't have your elite skills.
I think it is worth dispensing with your ego and following the SLs orders. OK bring some constructive ideas to the table and agree deviations from the overall plan. But ostensibly the aim is to be a grunt. Grunt follow orders. How many times does a PFC decide I won't go there and die I'll go hide here instead where I can get a couple of kills.
I know I am also guilty of doing this and not pointing fingers at anyone in particular at all.
It just might be worth playing as a proper squad and listening to the SL. :whistle:
[post=105051]Quoted post[/post]
Whao, whao, whao there... :eyebrow:
Talk about egos? :D ;)
IF you read my original post you will see that I suggest anyone who tries this
LET'S THIER SL KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING AND ALSO ASK IF THEY NEED TO RETURN IF THEY ARE NEEDED. :doh: :frusty:
The tactical decision is always in the hands of the SL - as it should be. :thumbsup2:
I understand your concerns that people don't start going lone wolf all over the map ~ but in the tactics of war there is such a thing as initiative...But I think it's the SL's responsibility to 'reel' these people back in at the time.
LOL - Dewey can be bossy sometimes (hee hee) - but, hey, that's good because that's WHY we have Squad Leaders! :lol:
Last night, for example, the squad I was in COULD have joined the 'A' Squad attacking the Vista ~ But a careful check of the map (troop numbers and placement) along with a good overview of the situation (enemy deployment) from a Blackhawk said go to next base...
And it proved the correct decision (for the next three flags in fact). :narnar: LOL
I wholley concure with you that had it been the case that an individual DID take themselves off and did what they liked then that would be counter-productive...But to be honest in BF2 half the game is taking what opportunities arise... :thumbsup2:
"Ability is of little account without opportunity."
Napoleon BonaparteAs I also said in my comment - this tactic was a luxury that was only afforded because we had two squads available to us.
Apologies to you Snooks if your comments were not specifically aimed at me ~ but I think there is accountability on both sides in a battle - followers and leaders...BOTH HAVE TO LISTEN TO EACH OTHER. :boxing: ;)
See u online mate! :thumb:
I did say it wasn't pointed at anyone in particular Ranger. Probably applies to me more than most.
QuoteOriginally posted by Liberator@Dec 13 2005, 06:53 PM
I'm not sure if there is anything already out there, but I will look at disabling certain commander features so that only UAV's and Supplies remain. Scanning is useful, but I think a little battlefield blindness adds to the game.
[post=105095]Quoted post[/post]
When we last tried it with commander enabled, the UAV turned out to be toop powerful, since there is only one flag to attack and the UAV can run (nearly) all the time.
QuoteOriginally posted by Sn00ks@Dec 13 2005, 08:20 PM
I did say it wasn't pointed at anyone in particular Ranger. Probably applies to me more than most.
[post=105131]Quoted post[/post]
Yeah I know SnoOks - no offence intended (as usual) - I tried to make this obvious with the amount of smilies! (I was running out of appropriate smilies to use mate!)
LOL
:)
I like a good argument ~ so your comments were appreciated. I can be completely up may own ass at times so it's cool to get a gritty come-back.
:)