One comment by an officer recently was that he missed the strange noise I produced when I panicked. That made me happy, I was now able to panic without inducing chaos.
[post=125030]Quoted post[/post]
[/b]I'm missing that too Lucian - honestly :huggy:
Quote"For a while now I have been aware of my lack of discipline on TS. I don't think I'll ever be perfect, but I have been trying to improve. One comment by an officer recently was that he missed the strange noise I produced when I panicked. That made me happy, I was now able to panic without inducing chaos.
I really like our mindless banter on TS, but at our current level we should keep our ts clean in BWL.
But in MC! Thats our arena, we pwn mc, im not taking it lightly but wth, we do it with less than 40 ppl and its in Mc i really think the TS "blooms" especially with guys like YOu on ts Lucian :) I do miss addy's "dirtyness" though (dont bend it Umbra :P)
As I hav posted on the old frums and now again:
I like a livler TS. It is a game and we are here to have fun.
When TS is quiet it is cause we Fed upp and are sulking. I like to releaes it during ressing troug humor (mostly dirty). If you want a silent clean TS then say so and I'l make my own channel , where I wil rant and rave and have fun while you kick yourself and sulk in silence.
TS and mindless banter is what I like when raiding. Whiping is no fun at all.
@Lucian : Nicely put mate, and I agree with most of what you said there. When I was raiding, I enjoyed the chats and the funny stuff on TS and G Chat and raids and stuff, most of the time more than the actual raiding itself. Its funny, and I like having a laugh with friends. However, I did notice that just before I stopped, it was becoming a lot more moderated and actions were taken to prevent this sometimes, something which I didn't agree with, which made it a little less fun for me, and sometimes pissed me off a little. But whatever.
QuoteOriginally posted by Lucian@May 4 2006, 03:50 PM
My tuppence worth on the TS situation:
If people disagree with me thats fine, quite honestly I don't care. I play the game and enjoy the company of the gamers I play with - and TS allows me to do that. If an officer orders me to be silent for the good for the raid then I will - but it needs to be an order, and an order arising from policy, and an order which is applied equally and fairly.
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this is a damn addicting game but still a game so u have to have fun and that doesn't mean u HAVE to raid ! if u enjoy spamming on TS instead or whatever do it as much as u can
btw a miss a little your cramps have a trip to greet us in TS sometime ;)
RA-RA-RA-RAGNARH
H-H-H-H-H-Hamburger
QuoteAs I hav posted on the old frums and now again:
I like a livler TS. It is a game and we are here to have fun.
When TS is quiet it is cause we Fed upp and are sulking. I like to releaes it during ressing troug humor (mostly dirty). If you want a silent clean TS then say so and I'l make my own channel , where I wil rant and rave and have fun while you kick yourself and sulk in silence.
TS and mindless banter is what I like when raiding. Whiping is no fun at all.
Quote(dont bend it Umbra)
Don't worry Neff I don't always do that, though it usually attests to my level of anger when I don't.
I expected a couple of threads like this since tuesday night, and was waiting to see how it was going to play out before saying anything, and indeed it seems like the replies here along with a few chats I've had have vindicated me somewhat.
I could go on to specify people who feel it's necessary to find blame for wipes etc, or make someone feel bad in such circumstances, however I don't think it would do much good as it would cause more enmity, dischord and frankly those who continue to treat people this way clearly don't actually care how people feel anyway.
After a long chat on tuesday night it was agreed that my kind of humour and banter is not acceptable in TS in ZG/AQ raids, this is fair enough, if at least one person is distracted 10 minutes later by what i said, during a boss pull then I apologise, however I have yet to speak to a resser who ressed more slowly or a puller who died, or a tank who lost aggro because I mentioned b00bies 5 -10 minutes previously. Fortunately an amicable agreement was reached in that I won't be joining raids where the general atmosphere does not mesh well with my personality. Though I am heartened to hear that the original SoG spirit is still around...
To all of you out there, if my chat distracts you from doing your job on a boss, please tell me so at the time, if you simply don't like the sound of my voice, then mute me :) . To those who are adamant that TS banter causes wipes, RG2 with myself, Ragnarh, Tanales and the rest had a great run, downed Shazz before midnight, everyone was in a good mood, lots of TS banter, plenty of rudeness, not a single boss wipe, including ony :) (RG2 doesn't pwn mc yet, so this is cool). So if the wipes on Ossirian continue, and I hope they don't, please think before you decide to go mardy at people. When you've alienated them all and he's still not down you'll just look silly :P
One last thing, if you feel the need to leave a raid early, don't decide to blame me 'Umbra is giving me a headache', you can easily mute my channel if you wanted, so stop being so TANGO-ing childish, attempt to cast disfavour if you will, but at least be more professional about it.
QuoteOriginally posted by Umbra@May 5 2006, 10:30 AM
After a long chat on tuesday night it was agreed that my kind of humour and banter is not acceptable in TS in ZG/AQ raids, this is fair enough, if at least one person is distracted 10 minutes later by what i said, during a boss pull then I apologise, however I have yet to speak to a resser who ressed more slowly or a puller who died, or a tank who lost aggro because I mentioned b00bies 5 -10 minutes previously. Fortunately an amicable agreement was reached in that I won't be joining raids where the general atmosphere does not mesh well with my personality. Though I am heartened to hear that the original SoG spirit is still around...
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*sigh*
Like i said repeatedly, we dont mind banter, hell i encourage it... WHEN we dont need to be focused on getting something done. As far as im concerned, from the second we take down the last obsidian guardian, to the time that ossirian drops/we move on etc, we (i.e. everyone) needs to get their head into the game and figure out why the hell we didnt take this guy down two months ago. Yes, this includes the time we're taking recovering from a wipe, we're obviously doing something wrong, and ignoring it isnt helping us any.
Luna, Kreg and myself put a lot of effort into these raids, and we dont ask for anything in return, but it would be nice if the whole raid could show a similar will to succeed.
Mene.
yeah okie, less banter when ressing if leaders are talking over tactics problems etc.
the points i'm confused about are these:
you said 'I'm not blaming you', yet in the same conversation 'you always seem to be the centre/cause of every distraction/irrelevance' (contradiction 1)
Quotewe dont mind banter, hell i encourage it... WHEN we dont need to be focused on getting something done. As far as im concerned, from the second we take down the last obsidian guardian
and yet in msn conversation 'talk about pancakes etc is distracting people, NOTE: this banter took place outside the instance after a repair run. (contradiction 2)
note 1: When we were on Ossirian and had the couple of goes that were deemed sufficient, I said few things on TS, but mainly
'I'm dead' - after a spanking (keep tanks informed)
'where the hell is everyone' after a knockback and no-one was in sight
'I'm a bit far away' - after being asked to tank after yet another knockback
' Um why is everyone going over there' when people ran off after a crystal when one had spawned right at our starting position.
'Where to now, I don;t see any clicking on the map' tanking for a short while about 10 secs before supreme mode
note 2: during ressing i can see the point of discussing strategies, but i'm gonna chat and try and cheer up after a wipe if leaders aren't saying anything, the excuse of 'they would if they could get a word in' is largely pointless by the ts capability of mute or ts kick as bastet has shown numerous times.
note 3: you mentioned me talking about my new fantastic camera position (i had only just found the extended camera zoom option thing). This was just before the last obsidian guardian and about 2 mins before the first pull, long exclamation of joy, and short 'woo' respectively
You can decide very well what is causing the wipes and try to do something about it, as raid leaders that's your prerogative, but saying something doesn't make it so. Have you asked the raid members if chatting before a pull stopped them doing their job? I know the feeling when it seems like everything is great and ought to work but it all seems to go to hell, it's difficult not to think 'well it must be the chatting, cos im doing everything else right'. Well, unless people are having lengthy conversations about porn and completely ignoring what you're saying you're onto a loser.
few points:
sometimes tank begins to get hit before the first crystal is activated.
healers sometimes not in range of tank.
lack of awareness of whirlwinds.
lack of clicking on map to select next crystal.
timing issues when activating crystals.
this is just refinement and practise, like razorgore, its a complicated long fight with bits of timing to it. Maybe the chatting is a symptom of a general miasma of anathema at the time but it's not a cause. There's nothing more frustrating than passive resistance, everyone says theyre ready and know what they're doing but maybe not entirely with it. Think of the ebonroc fight etc, we all clicked ready, and then thought wait, ony cloak? wth! But making people feel bad won't help concentration, and lack of tact won't help confidence or respect, people will be spending more time worrying about what they're saying, worrying if it'll incur your wrath etc than paying attention to their jobs. would it not have been simple and easy to have a /w that said 'hey could u shush a little on TS in this fight please'. The response would have been 'sure, sorry m8'.
Just a side note, I was up for as many tries on him as you wanted, have plenty of cashfor repairing and I know from other technical bosses that it takes a while for everyone to knwo what theyre doing, never mind coordinating this what what others are doing. just shout if you need another tank at any point even just for ossirian, however I won't be signing up anymore as this will avoid embarassment to us both.
Good luck in there, I'll be the first to congratulate you and apologise if/when you take him down in a raid where i've not distracted everyone. I wanna see some of that funky loot being used to kick nefarian :)
Dont , dont mention boobies Greg, it makes me err "occupied" .
But i think we've gotten the point , if noone wants to discuss it further closing the topic is in its place? ( no im not a wannabe Mod :P )
We'll pwn ossiran, we need to :P
I don't mean to go complete off topic on a very serious matter, but I just have to ask:
QuoteOriginally posted by Umbra@May 5 2006, 02:14 PM
note 3: you mentioned me talking about my new fantastic camera position (i had only just found the extended camera zoom option thing). This was just before the last obsidian guardian and about 2 mins before the first pull, long exclamation of joy, and short 'woo' respectively
[post=125183]Quoted post[/post]
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W00t? where can I do this :blink:
*sigh* agian. Fine.
QuoteOriginally posted by Umbra@May 5 2006, 02:14 PM
you said 'I'm not blaming you', yet in the same conversation 'you always seem to be the centre/cause of every distraction/irrelevance' (contradiction 1)
and yet in msn conversation 'talk about pancakes etc is distracting people, NOTE: this banter took place outside the instance after a repair run. (contradiction 2)
I wasnt blaming you for the wipes, if I was trying to point the blame at someone surely I would have done it in public, not in a private whisper conversation. HOWEVER there are a select few people who are consistantly at the center of any distraction; a distraction that certainly isnt helpful to us.
Time is not a luxury that we have with ossirian, at best it takes us 2 and a half hours or so to the first Guardian pull alone, 22:00 is a optimistic time to arrive at ossirian, leaving not a lot of time to do other bosses such as Buru and Moam that we really should do so we dont just spend an evening wipeing. If people are stood outside the instance oogling at polygon boobies then theyre wasting time.
Let me guess your reply "but I wasnt the last one there!", sure, but just because other people are being slow it doesnt mean you should be also.
Quotenote 1: When we were on Ossirian and had the couple of goes that were deemed sufficient, I said few things on TS, but mainly
'I'm dead' - after a spanking (keep tanks informed)
'where the hell is everyone' after a knockback and no-one was in sight
'I'm a bit far away' - after being asked to tank after yet another knockback
' Um why is everyone going over there' when people ran off after a crystal when one had spawned right at our starting position.
'Where to now, I don;t see any clicking on the map' tanking for a short while about 10 secs before supreme mode
note 2: during ressing i can see the point of discussing strategies, but i'm gonna chat and try and cheer up after a wipe if leaders aren't saying anything, the excuse of 'they would if they could get a word in' is largely pointless by the ts capability of mute or ts kick as bastet has shown numerous times.
Inflaming the situation by kicking/muting someone who clearly thinks they can do no wrong wont help.
Quotefew points:
sometimes tank begins to get hit before the first crystal is activated.
healers sometimes not in range of tank.
lack of awareness of whirlwinds.
lack of clicking on map to select next crystal.
timing issues when activating crystals.
this is just refinement and practise, like razorgore, its a complicated long fight with bits of timing to it.
Exactly, and when people seem to be more concerned with discussing anything BUT what we should be doing (when its often quite obvious that people are still unsure) it starts to become irritating.
What we want is for people to give us ideas to try, we havent done it either, for all we know the tactics we're trying could be complete tripe and there could be better ideas in your head.
Mene
I'd rather you said 'shush, and get back here ,we want as many tries as possible'
Also, people don't want to JUST talk about boss stuff, it has to be interpersed with some light heartedness, imho anyway.
actually, I will get the msn conversation later, you said 'you are always at the centre' as well as others. and anyway, attributing cause to certain people even if couched in such an unassuming phrases as
QuoteHOWEVER there are a select few people who are consistantly at the center of any distraction; a distraction that certainly isnt helpful to us.
IS blame, it may be attempting to be indirect but it's quite clear, additionally in the msn conversation you use the word 'cause' as well as 'centre of', distractions.
wipe from lack of focus
lack of focus from distractions
distraction attributed to 'select few'
no matter what you SAY after the fact about not blaming, that is exactly what the words and most likely the feelings imply (note imply and NOT infer).
Sorry about the boobies, i'll keep that to myself from now on. If the 3 mins that detracted from the raid time was what caused us to only have 2 tries on ossirian then that really is my bad.
Oh and btw in case you don't recall, your initial tirade was within the skeg channel, not a /w.
Maybe you really don't mean to cast blame at all, but the words and manner in which you spoke, and continue to do so, strongly suggested that you did and still do, excuse me if phrases like 'at least you don't have the ability to turn a raid into a complete shambles like xxx' doesn't exactly fill me happiness, this comes out as 'you're crap, but xxx is crapper still' if it was meant to cheer up someone you'd just made feel like shit then 0/10 marks. Additionally, if you can say such things behind other people's backs, then wth are you saying about me and the 'select few' to other brown shirts?
Threb, in interface options, advanced tab, there's a slider with caption'max zoom level' or similar. mine was on minimum :) so you can guess I was overjoyed at suddenly being able to see more than feet.
Sorry to barge in on the post like that, but lets try to get back to the teamwork we are used to and what gives us the reputation on Aszune that we are
THE NICEST GUILD ON THE SERVER[/SIZE]
and if you want to blame someone:
BLAME CANADA[/SIZE]
QuoteOriginally posted by Padding@May 5 2006, 05:53 PM
BLAME CANADA[/SIZE]
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Racist.. :P
the thing that I don't like on the fight with the big blue dude ,is that evryone is mounted, and when I go in to grab him some stil are mounted and I die.
Why do the whole raid need to be mounted at start? Evry try I have had at him (5),
there has been a crystal real close to where I stand when the pull is done.
IMO the only one who should be mounted should be the puller who should be the tank. So that he rides to the firs crystal and dismounts the healers are allready there and ready to heal him.
QuoteOriginally posted by Ragnarh@May 5 2006, 10:34 PM
the thing that I don't like on the fight with the big blue dude ,is that evryone is mounted, and when I go in to grab him some stil are mounted and I die.
Why do the whole raid need to be mounted at start? Evry try I have had at him (5),
there has been a crystal real close to where I stand when the pull is done.
IMO the only one who should be mounted should be the puller who should be the tank. So that he rides to the firs crystal and dismounts the healers are allready there and ready to heal him.
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The problem is the crystals spawn at random location. For example last time we had no crystals close the middle then its good to be mounted. The problem here is the randomness. And we rather see ppl mounted for the pull though i agree we need to change it a bit which we are discussing atm (pally pull ftw).
Lunares
QuoteOriginally posted by Ragnarh@May 5 2006, 10:34 PM
the thing that I don't like on the fight with the big blue dude ,is that evryone is mounted, and when I go in to grab him some stil are mounted and I die.
Why do the whole raid need to be mounted at start? Evry try I have had at him (5),
there has been a crystal real close to where I stand when the pull is done.
IMO the only one who should be mounted should be the puller who should be the tank. So that he rides to the firs crystal and dismounts the healers are allready there and ready to heal him.
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with our non-epic mounts were dead the second we pull.. remember... he is very fast in supreme mode