Some warriors in RG2 (won't mention names) are getting quite annoyed regarding the fact that Soldier member(s) (warrior too) are recieving loot from 40 man instances. Although they earn their DKP, they are still temporary and it will not always benefit the raid not to mention it gimps the raid with too many of the same class and slows down loot spread out within that class. The question is that will they still be able to earn loot or even attend the raid at all if there are enough of that class already?
P.S. I pos cuz my eenglish rox :P
if they earned the dkp, then why shouldnt they get items..?
They are not even suppose to raid in the 1st place let alone get items. Its not fair to have 8-9 warrior going on every raid and only 1-4 locks for example.
locks r rare u have to lrn more about 40 men instances :P
QuoteOriginally posted by Keltor@May 8 2006, 06:50 PM
They are not even suppose to raid in the 1st place let alone get items.
and? would you prefer a raid to be cancelled or to do the raid with some soldier members?
soldiers will rarely get an item.. because 99.999999999% of the time a defender will always have more dkp. so weres the problem in that? are you afraid to loose an item? then raid more and dont miss a raid..
or would you prefer an item to be disenchanted or it goes to a soldier.. if you prefer it to be de'ed... then you shoulndt try to attend to any rg1 raid.. welle de the items just for fun..
dont think ime offensive or somehting, this is just my uncensored 2c
lol nah this is not about me. im only typing this out for the warriors who are afraid of losing loot and yes, there is a soldier member raiding on a regular basis even when not needed.
and the loot wouldnt get DE at this point anyway, it would go to a defender
QuoteOriginally posted by Keltor@May 8 2006, 08:50 PM
They are not even suppose to raid in the 1st place let alone get items. Its not fair to have 8-9 warrior going on every raid and only 1-4 locks for example.
[post=125606]Quoted post[/post]
Actually, From what i understood, Rg2 members repace missing rg1 people in BWL, and Soldier replace missing rg2 people in MC: so they're backups, kinda. if you have 25 people in MC; Why would any soldier want to come and "help" you get the raid going if they'd have no chance for loot? Thats right, you wouldnt always have a thursday raid or Monday raid at all without some of the soldiers. I just totally agree with Gorion.
And about soldiers raiding regularily when not needed, when there's a rg2 raid with less than 40 people when invites start, its only beneficial to the raid that a soldier joins, rather than wait 30min for it to be filled with defenders who were late, isnt it?And if rg2 member comes online later, its his fault he missed the invites and let a soldier get the spot.
Sorry, but you're just concerned cause soldiers take some loot you may need. One of my friends is a sildier and i'm very straightforward in this subject.
seriously, i dont mind them at all getting loot. again im speaking for other warriors..bah knew i shouldnt of made ths topic and make myself seem like a selfish d***head lol
My last reply seemed a bit rude against you, now that i read it again. Sorry about that, but my points still remain over there ;)
hehe apology accepted..if i was so obsessed with loot, i would of snatched that epic cape away from umbra instead of passing it. Wanted it so badly as well.
Atm some people in RG2 will probably be on negative DKP, so a soldier that joins with 0 dkp will get loot before a defender with say -10 dkp. In my opinion this is not fair to the defender that commits to show up at two raids a week, while the soldier joins if he can/wants etc. No commitement made and no expectations for him to show up.
Maybe defenders could get a bonus 200 dkp (for instance, just a random number) when desciding who gets the loot? This would keep it balanced between defenders, but they will get a bonus for actually commiting to a raid schedule.
PS! I hope I didn't totally miss the point here as I'm slightly drunk at the time I'm posting this :dummy:
QuoteOriginally posted by sitha@May 8 2006, 10:34 PM
the defender that commits to show up at two raids a week, while the soldier joins if he can/wants etc. No commitement made and no expectations for him to show up.
What commitment to raid twice per week? Defenders have no commitment to raid.
RG1 has a commitment to raid twice per week minimum, but not RG2. Defender membership levels are set by the Officers and monitored to provide we *hope* sufficient people turning up to the RG2 raid each night. We expect that when we finally get the Defender membership level right (we are currently monitoring) then on a normal RG2 night we will have some unfortunate people unable to join the RG2 raid from the Defender ranks as RG2 will be FULL. This will mean ZERO Soldiers raid in RG2, so the problem discussed is very temporary.
You are sort of right in that it may seem unfair when a Soldier gets Epic loot if a Defender has negative loot, but consider this:
- the Defender got negative DKP by getting more Epics than his attendance DKP would otherwise buy.
- the Defender will earn DKP pretty much the equivalent of one Epic per week by doing Molten Core, so the math says that it is damn hard to turn up regularly as a Defender and *fail* to be ahead of a Soldier who turns up to help the raid when requested.
- Soldiers will only raid when the Officers decide it is in the raid group interest.
- There are only two Warriors currently in negative DKP - Siffredi and Myanmar the former have spent over 450DKP already in the short time that RG2 has been going, so I am guessing that Siffredi (and others) would not argue about this system as it has seemed to allow him to acquire items pretty quickly.
Finally, it is never sensible to post the concerns of an anonymous third party - get that person to post the question themselves and then they will be able to phrase their concerns properly and answer queries as they comeup.
TL.
Myanmar <-- Soldier
05/04/06 Flameguard Gauntlets
05/04/06 Helm of Wrath
............
I'm sorry, but I am not at all sure what that post was meant to say. You were stating the obvious, but not making a point. Do I need to post Do you agree with me, disagree with me or do you not have a view on this in which case why post? I knew who had what level of DKP and which membership level when i posted, but I do not believe that your post changes anything.
When Defender membership is set correctly to meet Defender attendance performance then this will not happen. So the problem is not how to stop someone else getting an Epic, but how to make sure we get sufficient Defenders turning up for RG2.
I stand by the points I made above. Does anyone disagree? If so why?
Btw, for comparison purposes on the very same night as Pax quoted above, the other Warrior mentioned got:
05/04/06 Eskhandar's Collar
05/04/06 Flamewaker Legplates
So I guess it didn't stop that warrior getting loot.
Turn up, earn DKP, help the raid group progress and loot will arrive. Focus on the achievement not the loot please - if loot is the priority then you're in it for the wrong reasons and will probably be one of the ones who does not show up or moans when you spend a month wiping on a brand new boss that is really difficult to take down - and yes, BWL can do that to you, as can Ragnaros.
TL.
QuoteOriginally posted by Snowstormer@May 8 2006, 08:23 PM
Actually, From what i understood, Rg2 members repace missing rg1 people in BWL,[post=125620]Quoted post[/post]
Yes they do, and if they get an item there you wont hear any RG1 about it, now granted that is not too common, but neither is a soldier in a RG2 raid getting an item. So i dont really see the problem here. And if your attendance is high enough you really dont get into negative DKP too much :whistle:
Well i see no problem at all that soldiers join RG2 raids when the spots are not taken by defenders, cause i would rather have a full raid with the posibility of succes than perhaps only 31-38 members with higher chance of failure. So i totally agree with TL and others on this subject.
I have no doubt that i will get all the items i need, but you have to make a effort to reach your goals. Atm. im at minus dkp, cause i got 2xepic on last run, so therefore i will get none on the next 2 raids(unless im lucky) and that is okay with me cause i got cool items which i need and have earned. A soldier who perhaps raid one time a week can never have generelly higher dkp than a defender who raid twice a week. And i believe that soldiers will refuse to join our raid if they are denied thier access to the loot, cause that is indeeed the carrot on the stick?
:withstupid:
/signed
TL.
well guys consider this... i started raiding with sog before i was an sog, on my 1st ever raid with sog i got a heavy dark iron ring (yes i did), it costed me 80dkp! a week later i joined sog and i had around -63dkp when i joined... at first i missed some raid, (fridays for some time, we had attendance probs on firdays that time)
so.. i started to think.. first of all i decided what my future will be.. (i was a balanced sort of spec that time, i could do some good dam, and i could tank pretty good) since i happen to love tanking i chose prot.. so i limited my view to prot spec items that will help me tank, the first thing i did was hoard nearly all the dkp i earned so i could get TF (ye right :/ ) then one day the bp of might dropped.. and i talked to myself abit and said fu ck TF ime gonna get my tanking gear.. and thats what i did.
now from that day since i nearly never missed a single raid. i totally devoted myself to raids.. i would stay up to even 1am sometimes when i had to wake up around 6am.. i risked getting fired from work too, in the end i was totally destroyed i was tired.. but i was getting what i wanted..
now what does all that stuff i just written mean, If you want loot work for it and do not raid for the loot, raid for fun and help the others in your raid, because in the end youre helping them to help you, loot will always drop and that item you want will come many times. sure i dont have TF yet... but what the heck in the end it shall come, just as every item i have did
sry for the extremely long post :P
bdw you will have a hard time in bwl
:withstupid:
And we love him for it :)
Btw Gorion, whats TF? the short seams to elude me at this time :)
ThunderFury, Blessed Blade Of The WindSeeker
http://www.thotbott.com/?i=40513 (http://www.thotbott.com/?i=40513)
Would have been nice Gorion if you have saved for that :D you would have like 4500 DKP and no epix except for that DI ring... your tanking would surely be better than now, cause we all know Valor is way better than Might/Wrath
But Seriously, im whinning everytime i dont get that Priest loot that drops... but moments after, im like wth, ive had these items for like 6 months now, i think they can last a week or 2 more :) if ya get my point.
Though this discussion is confussing me a bit, when an RG1 Member is helping out RG2, in that smart switch a player from RG2 to RG1 and the other way around in MC, to distribute loot better, ive been told that RG2 had priority on RG2 Drops in MC since its their raid? or is that rule cancelled?
/Luthor
First of Luthor the thing is that Soldiers really go in as a RG2 member they just have lower priority in getting into the raid so they are titled to get RG2 loot.
Secondly anyone that thinks that because he is a defender he should get items over an soldier are idiots. I don't think you people realise how good you all have it. As an example lets look at my paladin it took him about 100 hours of raiding time to get his third epic item, it took me 4months to get a 3rd epic item. another example it took Kreuz 2months to get his first MC item that is around 60hours inside MC without getting an item. It took Vargen 2months to get his second MC item again 60hours to get 2items.
It took us around 6 weeks of raiding getting magmadar down, one month later we had Garr down. I am guessing you didn't even get tactics on the trash that we had to spend 2weeks on learning abilities and tactics on. You were through the imp caves on first day of raiding wich took us weeks.
You are now walking through MC with people that know the tactics and have done it often over the last 11months getting an average of little less then an item per week and you are complaining that you have to share the candy with the kids that can't play with you everytime but they show up and help you when they can. And the items are only candy people seem to talk alot about items and all that but seriously those items will not help you if you don't know how to use them, A blue equiped person that knows how to keep him self alive through a whole boss fight is alot more usefull then a person with epics that can't get the message run out of the AoE.
Go and try to earn your items like other people in this guild had to instead of whining about having to share them with people that actually did show up and earned just as much as you did wirth showing up
QuoteOriginally posted by Drazila@May 9 2006, 01:57 PM
First of Luthor the thing is that Soldiers really go in as a RG2 member they just have lower priority in getting into the raid so they are titled to get RG2 loot.
Secondly anyone that thinks that because he is a defender he should get items over an soldier are idiots. I don't think you people realise how good you all have it. As an example lets look at my paladin it took him about 100 hours of raiding time to get his third epic item, it took me 4months to get a 3rd epic item. another example it took Kreuz 2months to get his first MC item that is around 60hours inside MC without getting an item. It took Vargen 2months to get his second MC item again 60hours to get 2items.
It took us around 6 weeks of raiding getting magmadar down, one month later we had Garr down. I am guessing you didn't even get tactics on the trash that we had to spend 2weeks on learning abilities and tactics on. You were through the imp caves on first day of raiding wich took us weeks.
You are now walking through MC with people that know the tactics and have done it often over the last 11months getting an average of little less then an item per week and you are complaining that you have to share the candy with the kids that can't play with you everytime but they show up and help you when they can. And the items are only candy people seem to talk alot about items and all that but seriously those items will not help you if you don't know how to use them, A blue equiped person that knows how to keep him self alive through a whole boss fight is alot more usefull then a person with epics that can't get the message run out of the AoE.
Go and try to earn your items like other people in this guild had to instead of whining about having to share them with people that actually did show up and earned just as much as you did wirth showing up
[post=125751]Quoted post[/post]
I agree with you fully there Drazila
:coolio: :coolio: :coolio: :coolio:
QuoteOriginally posted by Drazila@May 9 2006, 01:57 PM
WAAAAAY TOO LONG POST TO QUOTE[post=125751]Quoted post[/post]
That was most definetly Tenilia talking, and not Drazila - good to see that he hasn't completly retired ;)
QuoteOriginally posted by Luthor@May 9 2006, 01:17 PM
Though this discussion is confussing me a bit, when an RG1 Member is helping out RG2, in that smart switch a player from RG2 to RG1 and the other way around in MC, to distribute loot better, ive been told that RG2 had priority on RG2 Drops in MC since its their raid? or is that rule cancelled?
/Luthor
[post=125738]Quoted post[/post]
From what i have understood you are right on this point luthor. However keep in mind the helping RG2 is something to need to say yourself and you know before hand they have priority. (dunno about legendary drops) I helped them a few times at the start cause i basicly have all my MC gear (only that stupid 1 rep point remaining :ranting: ). And i believe that was also mentioned in the post at that time (its your decission you know you wont get the items but the same amount of DKP then RG1, so better only commit yourself to it when you dont have much left lootwise in MC)
About the comment drazilla made. I dont know if i have a right to talk here since i was not in SOG from the start but i agree with him to the max. RG 2 is going through MC with a very fast pace and will soon master ragnaros. If you look at that compared to RG 1 that a hell of a lot faster en every run you get more loot timewise then RG 1 did.
Lunares
It is only fair on each raid if people are allowed to join in, who normally would not, to raise the numbers and the chance to suceed. Quite clearly this benefits all the members in the raid and they have more oppertunity to kill more bosses and access to more loot. If these soldiers put aside thier time to help out then they should be rewarded by allowing them to claim any item they want according to dkp rules.
It would be quite unfair to say 'come to mc bring your own water and food and pay for your own repair bill' without the oppertunity to get some epic rewards during the raid. IF they do not get the dangling epic carrot in front of them they will soon loose interest and will not help out in MC, as it's not in thier interest.
QuoteOriginally posted by Paximperiali@May 9 2006, 10:07 AM
Myanmar <-- Soldier
05/04/06Â Flameguard GauntletsÂ
05/04/06Â Helm of Wrath
............
[post=125671]Quoted post[/post]
Most my thoights have been repeated here already, but i just have to ask..if he got two items in the same raid, in a row, how could he possibly have had enough DKP to buy em both over everyone else? Thats right, he attended raids as needed for em. You didnt attend enough and lost em. Thats the way DKP goes. Just dont look at the rank, if he was a guardian, he'd have gotten em in that case also. Rank is just an excuse to try and reduce the rights of some raiders.
Now i will say no more :rolleyes:
QuoteFirst of Luthor the thing is that Soldiers really go in as a RG2 member they just have lower priority in getting into the raid so they are titled to get RG2 loot.
Secondly anyone that thinks that because he is a defender he should get items over an soldier are idiots. I don't think you people realise how good you all have it. As an example lets look at my paladin it took him about 100 hours of raiding time to get his third epic item, it took me 4months to get a 3rd epic item. another example it took Kreuz 2months to get his first MC item that is around 60hours inside MC without getting an item. It took Vargen 2months to get his second MC item again 60hours to get 2items.
It took us around 6 weeks of raiding getting magmadar down, one month later we had Garr down. I am guessing you didn't even get tactics on the trash that we had to spend 2weeks on learning abilities and tactics on. You were through the imp caves on first day of raiding wich took us weeks.
You are now walking through MC with people that know the tactics and have done it often over the last 11months getting an average of little less then an item per week and you are complaining that you have to share the candy with the kids that can't play with you everytime but they show up and help you when they can. And the items are only candy people seem to talk alot about items and all that but seriously those items will not help you if you don't know how to use them, A blue equiped person that knows how to keep him self alive through a whole boss fight is alot more usefull then a person with epics that can't get the message run out of the AoE.
Go and try to earn your items like other people in this guild had to instead of whining about having to share them with people that actually did show up and earned just as much as you did wirth showing up
:worship: :worship: :worship: :worship:
Great post teni, and im gonna stop my asskissing here :)
I dont have the right to say the same, because i myself was very lucky to join in on Majordomo, i was in the guild from the start , and i was astonished to see you progress that fast after Danu split. I remember all the forum posts, and suggestions to take down Ragnaros, that b'tch was damn hard when we didnt even have attendance enough.
But most of you won't have the pleasure of not knowing exactly what to do in an instance. BWL is different from mc because it takes alot of player skill also, not just following the flow. Learning a new place is awesome, and i find MC extremely boring just for the record :P