It's worth noting that just to get past the first boss (Skeram) will need at least 3 very well specced tanks. Given that the Skeram will make two extra copies of himself (and does three times during the fight) this means 3 tanks (one for each). Skeram can also mind control a target which could be one of the tanks (who will then need to be sheeped) meaning that more than three well specced tanks will be needed. Worth remembering if you are looking at your Warrior talent spec...........
TL.
How well spec tank do you need for this??? As i see it this would not be a problem cause we do have plenty of Protection spec tanks in the guild?
QuoteOriginally posted by Siffredi@May 16 2006, 01:01 PM
As i see it this would not be a problem cause we do have plenty of Protection spec tanks in the guild?
[post=127169]Quoted post[/post]
I wish RG1 had a few more......but anyway. Early bosses (1-5) are about the same as end-MC levels of difficulty, but by the end of the instance you are *way* more difficult than anything you find in BWL. The climb in difficulty through the instance is extreme to say the least and some of the trash mobs have already got reputations as raid wipers!
TL.
Well... this sounds kinda fun... If the first bosses are as "easy" as you say they are (end-MC) then RG1 should soon start raiding AQ 40 too? Perhaps instead of farming the MC for a period of time... Perhaps the ones from RG1 that are missing their loot from MC can join cyclewise RG2 who will be raiding MC for quite a while...
QuoteOriginally posted by Siffredi@May 16 2006, 01:18 PM
Perhaps the ones from RG1 that are missing their loot from MC can join cyclewise RG2 who will be raiding MC for quite a while...
[post=127175]Quoted post[/post]
That would at least require some kind of change in the looting rules, cause as of now RG1 members are not allowed to ask for any loot at all when in a RG2 raid...
QuoteOriginally posted by Threbrilith@May 16 2006, 01:47 PM
That would at least require some kind of change in the looting rules, cause as of now RG1 members are not allowed to ask for any loot at all when in a RG2 raid...
[post=127179]Quoted post[/post]
That is currently under discussion.
TL.
QuoteOriginally posted by TeaLeaf@May 16 2006, 01:57 PM
That is currently under discussion.[post=127182]Quoted post[/post]
Hmm, interesting :thumbsup2:
QuoteOriginally posted by Threbrilith@May 16 2006, 02:47 PM
That would at least require some kind of change in the looting rules, cause as of now RG1 members are not allowed to ask for any loot at all when in a RG2 raid...
[post=127179]Quoted post[/post]
Give RG2 members priority in RG2 raids. Problem solved :)
Tbh though, a lot of points in protection isn't a huge improvement. The build I used had 9 points in protection, giving me an extra 8% armor and +10 defence. This just helped me take less damage but you can keep decent aggro without protection talents.
True, but can you aswell in a "extreme" situation? like having an Asheera?
Only a Protection specc warrior can rely on the high aggro stuff imo...
QuoteIt's worth noting that just to get past the first boss (Skeram) will need at least 3
I do not agree on this statement we got 2 defensive specced tanks 3 + rexon
and they others with wrath we had 1 good try with a pug
QuoteOriginally posted by opticalrush@May 17 2006, 10:59 AM
I do not agree on this statement we got 2 defensive specced tanks 3 + rexon
and they others with wrath we had 1 good try with a pug
[post=127338]Quoted post[/post]
That i wouldn't know :) but i think a protection specced warrior can do a bit better tanking, which might be needed when on the edge.
This discussion is not in the right forum, but is actually very interesting since its not just a tank spec that we are discussing but all classes, and what is actually best among the different classes
For some reason its ok that not all warriors is not totally tank specced, but it would be unacceptable to see a priest shadow specced or a paladin retribution specced for PVE instances.
I think its time to take this discussion up among the members of the guild to hear some views on the matter, and to hear what people actually think about what specs the different classes should have.
Could TL or Bastet please move this thread to a more appropiate forum where we can discuss the specs on the classes
I'll take a wild guess at which one it belongs in. Your call is important, please hold.............
TL.
You know padding you can do all this stuff yourselfs too :P
Indeed, but i wasnt really up to finding out how at the time.
BTW, to get back on the TOPIC, i want all people to talk about their classes and what they think a particular specc will do for our raids
QuoteOriginally posted by opticalrush@May 17 2006, 10:59 AM
I do not agree on this statement we got 2 defensive specced tanks 3 + rexon
and they others with wrath we had 1 good try with a pug
[post=127338]Quoted post[/post]
ok about your point,
1) i rarely see rexon online
2) we have the rexon "comminication problem"
3) we still need 4 prot tanks
4) and what if a prot tank looses his connection/lags/his pc explodes.. (which can easily happen)
answer: we need more prot tanks, you already had a taste of how hard it is with only 2 real tanks when raggy was getting drunk with spiritus.. (remember firemaw..)
and yes an officer CAN force you to respec...like it or not
end of discussion..
QuoteOriginally posted by Gorion@May 17 2006, 06:17 PM
and yes an officer CAN force you to respec...like it or not
[post=127467]Quoted post[/post]
Not true. An officer can decide not to invite you to the raid, but can't really force you to respec :P Could be breaking the law if they some how did :P
Yes we could actually force if we wanted to by setting the rules strict for RG1, but it may not be very positive
Okay, since nobody is stepping up, I, Dajo am willing to respec to protection warrior under the following conditions:
1) I'm still allowed to spend my DKP on DMG items, and not tank items.
2) I'll respec immediatly when we do an instance which is above MC lvl more then two times a week. So for example 3x BWL. So we can have more tries on Nefarian / Skeram / whatever Nax 1st boss is.
3) I wanna be allowed to respec damage once in a while for a week, being payed by myself offcourse.
If this doesnt sound to much for the officers, I be more then happy to respec to a protection warrior. (5/11/35)
This topic is to discuss the posibilites and effects people think it haves when we have people who want to be both PVP and PVE specced at the same time, so please try to keep an abstract view when commenting back
Its not meant to hit any people particular
just one question warriors don't need to be full protection spec to be able to tank fairly well, many of the top end tanks only have what 15points in protection? I think the main part is to get more with some protection and get people from speccing pure fury/arms
QuoteOriginally posted by Drazila@May 17 2006, 07:58 PM
just one question warriors don't need to be full protection spec to be able to tank fairly well, many of the top end tanks only have what 15points in protection? I think the main part is to get more with some protection and get people from speccing pure fury/arms
[post=127483]Quoted post[/post]
well i tried out every spec.. but since i went 5/11/35 i found it much much better to tank, its better to hold aggro (ash may be a pain the the butt sometimes), rest of the prot tree is really nice to have, some abilities do massive aggro in a short anmount of time ( shield slam, instant cast, very nice to have! ) and the +5% extra dam on 1handers helps with aggro and is also good for killing stuff with dual wield
bdw
Dajo thanks for the courage there :) going prot is a hard choice only a few are willing to make :) and as i said before when you trialed prot.. youre a good tank :P
To move the warrior discussion to the priests.
Would a Shadow Priest be an improvement to our raid? We have none at the moment and with Shadow Weaving which Warlocks would really like. (evenmore damage Asheera, /pat tanks :narnar: ) And a Shadow Priest is good enough for keeping a group as 7 or 8 alive with Vampiric Embrace and healing outside of Shadowform. Mind you mages, Shadow Priests can beat you of your place in the damage list :P
Only downside is that they aren't really a lasting power but shouldn't get aggro anymore than mages, if played well. And they use atleast 4 spaces of dots, SW:P, Vamp Embrace, Shadow Weaving and Mind Flay, and thats quite a lot on a limit of 16.
So, yes or no to Shadow Priests?
from a tanks point of view.. HOLY
we have the rest of the DPS classes to do the damage part
QuoteOriginally posted by Sebas@May 17 2006, 10:31 PM
Mind you mages, Shadow Priests can beat you of your place in the damage list :P
[post=127490]Quoted post[/post]
In fights that last under 2min. You have nowhere enough mana nor manacost to do what damage we can, In any fight that lasts long..like bosses. And where's the burst-part + AoE? :P
QuoteMind you mages, Shadow Priests can beat you of your place in the damage list
Well, they're used to it , us warlocks are there anyways :D
Holy holy and Holy all the way, benefits the raid WAY more :)
QuoteOriginally posted by Gorion@May 17 2006, 08:35 PM
from a tanks point of view.. HOLY
we have the rest of the DPS classes to do the damage part
[post=127492]Quoted post[/post]
If you would look at priests in a raid and how they could have their talents, i would say 1 shadow for the reasons sebas said (if they rest knows how to not get agro), 2 specced in discipline at least until the 10% more mana(and ofc 1 of them specced to kill kreuz with power infusion :devil: ) And 3 holy priests for the healing. That way you have a few who can last longer mana wise and a gew who heal a bit better. And ofc the shadow priest for those specific abilities. I had 6 priests here cause thats the normal attendance we have.
Lunares
I used to be full prot and it was great until they corrected shield block (no more soloing ST grrrr). Putting 15 points in prot talent should be enough for a lil bit more lasting power but some warriors are useful being fully arms/fury. Arms for MS and reducing boss healing and fury with improved battle shout boosts a rogue's dps.
QuoteIf you would look at priests in a raid and how they could have their talents, i would say 1 shadow for the reasons sebas said (if they rest knows how to not get agro), 2 specced in discipline at least until the 10% more mana(and ofc 1 of them specced to kill kreuz with power infusion devil2.gif ) And 3 holy priests for the healing. That way you have a few who can last longer mana wise and a gew who heal a bit better. And ofc the shadow priest for those specific abilities. I had 6 priests here cause thats the normal attendance we have.
Maybe if it was the same players in all the raids Luna, but its certainly not. Thats why i think we need a general rule that players should stick to a certain specc for that will benefit the PVE enviroment more than the PVP environment. There is a reasons that the hardcore raiding guild are enforcing players to stick to certain speccs, and thats ofcourse that the speccs are benefitting their raids the most
QuoteOriginally posted by Padding@May 18 2006, 08:54 AM
Maybe if it was the same players in all the raids Luna, but its certainly not. Thats why i think we need a general rule that players should stick to a certain specc for that will benefit the PVE enviroment more than the PVP environment. There is a reasons that the hardcore raiding guild are enforcing players to stick to certain speccs, and thats ofcourse that the speccs are benefitting their raids the most
[post=127549]Quoted post[/post]
Thats true. However for priests only 1 spec is not good. Cause you will miss spirit buff or lightwell in that way (of everyone has the same spec). Thats also not the best option. Personally you can skip a shadow build but keep a few disc specced priests in here and a few holy (and not all priests attend but normally 4-5 of the 6 do so there is allways someone who can do spirit buff. (Ofc this is looking at RG1)
Lunares