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Dead Men Walking

Old Server Admin Section => SOG Archive => SOG War Room => Silver Oak Guardians => Archived Topics => The Clean Up => Topic started by: saori on May 16, 2006, 04:40:05 PM

Title: Problem with GUILDBANK and MONEYBAGZ
Post by: saori on May 16, 2006, 04:40:05 PM
Hi all SoG mates,

I open this post just for one reason, i have a problem and i need a solution. I cannot have much time for raiding latley , mostly because as i stated before at raids starts im usually working, thats why i lack most of tier 1 gear, or epic stuff and its quite hard to me with my 200 DKPs to get some nice gear, but well, i dont really care about that, i play raids just for fun, if i was interested in gear i will try another solutions.

But in this case, last week i readed in this forums that there was a Felheart Belt in the guildbank ready for shipping, i followed the instruccions given in the post and i sent an ingame mail to Moneybagz asking for the belt. As i didnt read anywhere how much time its needed for processing this inbox mails, and taking a decision on the one who deserves most the belt, if that is the case instead of giving the belt to the first one that ask for it with enough dkp's, i whispered Vargen about this fact, he told me to write the inbox mail, and when i told him that i did that 5 hours before he replied me that then its requiered for him to read the mail and give me an answer.

Thats the last thing i know, 5 days had passed since that and i didnt have any positive or negative reply from Vargen or Moneybagz.

What i want to know is how much time is used to take this kid of decisions and to sent the replies (with the items endorsed if its required). I dont know well the procedure guild bank works neither the amount fo time Officers dedicate to this matter.

Kidn regards,

Sao
Title: Problem with GUILDBANK and MONEYBAGZ
Post by: TeaLeaf on May 16, 2006, 04:42:32 PM
The answer is that there is no formal procedure.  5 days may seem a long time but all the officers need to be around and have time to consider what has been requested.  I would wait longer and then if you feel the need to chase then do so via an ingame mail to either Moneybagz or to another Officer.  5 days is not long really when you consider everything else that goes on in a Guild that has to be dealt with too.

TL.
Title: Problem with GUILDBANK and MONEYBAGZ
Post by: saori on May 17, 2006, 11:38:04 AM
QuoteOriginally posted by TeaLeaf@May 16 2006, 03:42 PM
The answer is that there is no formal procedure. 5 days may seem a long time but all the officers need to be around and have time to consider what has been requested. I would wait longer and then if you feel the need to chase then do so via an ingame mail to either Moneybagz or to another Officer. 5 days is not long really when you consider everything else that goes on in a Guild that has to be dealt with too.

TL.
[post=127220]Quoted post[/post]
[/b]

Well, i dont share your point of view. I mean, its quite clear that the so called "officers" had a lot of things to do, RL stuff included too. But, if you stablish a system like a Guild Bank i suppose it is a good idea to set a list of rules for the bank managment, rules like "when an item is requested by 2 or more members of the same class the item goes for the one with more DKP's in first place" for example. Is easy to say "all the officers must be logged on and consider what has been requested, and in the while can pass weeks since for you 5 days isnt a long time, and in that weeks the player can manage to get the item requested by his own means, so, in this case which is the point in having a guild bank for storing this kind of items? guild bank for holding gold and items for sustaining guild economy is a great idea, but if you are going to hold items like epic armor, weapons and stuff like that for guild members that need to use them, which is the point in doing so if you cannot set a quick reply, of for example, 5 days max??

SoG is centering in hardcore raiding and in hardcore raiding players too much, and is setting aside other important stuff, of course, that is only the opinion of a player like me, casual player at the moment, that isnt here to see the day by day progress of the guild, i hope im not ofending no one with this words because this isnt my intention.

Sao
Title: Problem with GUILDBANK and MONEYBAGZ
Post by: TeaLeaf on May 17, 2006, 12:03:32 PM
Saori, if only Guild management were that simple and the "so called officers" had it that easy!

You probably have no idea how much effort and work goes into running this Guild, the two raid groups, the forums, the DKP sites, other systems and controls (of which you are unaware but are needed by us for Guild and Raid management), the seeking of materials for crafting required items, the trading time needed to keep the Guild solvent and to supply the odd 100 FR pots or 8 Flasks of Titans etc, the tactics development, the future shape and direction of the guild, the support of the different needs of the different members etc.  It's not quite the cake walk that you seem to think should be delivered to you and I am sorry to confirm that none of the Officers are perfect.

As for distribution of items, yes you are right, the Officers probably should document a process for the distribution of Guild Bank loot but we have not yet got around to it as the current system has not to date been causing a problem to anyone.  So in the current context 5 days is perfectly acceptable.  Officer discretion exists to cater for circumstances that are outside the bounds of the rules as nobody thought of the exception tot he rule when the rule was written.  

Now I'm not quite sure what point you are trying to make here but I invite you to speak to me about it on TS this evening to discuss it further.  A quick chat is often far simpler, quicker and is less easily misunderstood than a series of forum posts where language and the interpretation of the words used can often lead to misunderstanding.

TL.
Title: Problem with GUILDBANK and MONEYBAGZ
Post by: Padding on May 17, 2006, 12:19:11 PM
Just gonna back TL up here a bit since i know the circumstances. The officers (and we are not so-called, thats just outrageous to call us that) are trying to stay fair for all in the guild and is being used solely for the benefit of the guild. The guild banks belong to the people in the guild, and therefore we cannot deliver any items out as long as the majority of the officers have not agreed. Yes the system could probably be better, but to be honest we really have to focus the time we are spending on guild management getting the raids done in good fashion.

The members of the guild needs to be aware that the officers are doing the utmost to secure the well-being of the guild, and we are working round the clock to keep our members happy
Title: Problem with GUILDBANK and MONEYBAGZ
Post by: Bastet on May 17, 2006, 12:25:24 PM
Just to give a small idea on the ammount of things we have running right now, there is about 12 things on our plate right now, from setting up systems that help us monitor attendance more effectively, to moving dkp site to our own host. Combined w/ all the raids and work we all have we dont have that much time to talk stuff through. if you can confince my boss to give me a couple hours off this week ill gladly sort out your request.


And btw, as you say yourselfs you wont be raiding/playing much anytime soon, why should we give you an epic BOE that will help out another raiding lock more? If we are looking purely at the return on giving you an epic that doesnt go high compared to a lock that raids a lot.
Title: Problem with GUILDBANK and MONEYBAGZ
Post by: saori on May 17, 2006, 02:34:58 PM

And btw, as you say yourselfs you wont be raiding/playing much anytime soon, why should we give you an epic BOE that will help out another raiding lock more? If we are looking purely at the return on giving you an epic that doesnt go high compared to a lock that raids a lot.
[post=127365]Quoted post[/post]
[/quote]

Well, in my modest opinion a lock that raids a lot will probably dont need that item since is a normal drop in MC. Anyway, i dont care who gets the belt, i just readed in the forums that it was available and i wanted, because if is in the bank is because nobody has requested it, correct?, nothing else, if i get it or not is not my business.

Teaelle, Padding, i think you missed the part where i say "i dont pretend to offend no one", is easy to fire up in a forum post and start getting upset, you said it was outrageous to call you "so called officers", well, what is the problem with that? im not an expert in english language but i dont see the point here, is there is something "bad" with that expresion let me now so i can avoid it in future posts.

Teaelle, you said you dont see the point i wanted to make, well, its clear, i just wanted to know the management systems of the guild bank, nothing else, i wasnt talking about all the hell of the work you and your fellow officers mates need to acomplish to manage the guild, it wouldnt be fair if i make that kind of opinions, dont you think? So, instead of you, padding, and Bastet telling me how difficult and complex is the work you are developing in the guild managment (which is a fact i already now), it would be easier to say "guild bank has no rules at the moment, and we are working on it".

Thats like the other day in the guild chat, when i was in a hurry and asked if anyone knew where to locate some volcanic ash, do you know what i got for an answer?= learn to use thott! And that came from one of the newst member in the guild. Well, this is quite the same, i cannot ask a simple question to the officers because "there is a hell of work to do in the guild"!! Well, maybe when i sign off the guild there will be some lesser work to do! At least you will not have to deal with crap like the one i posted here, no? :)

Well, guys, you are doing a great job, SoG is real big and works fine (in almost every aspect) but well, i had more fun playing in SoG months ago with a lot of good friends like Adu, Iruga, Rexxon, Tuana and so, than the fun im having now where im in a guild i cant even ask a simple "quest related question" in guild chat because a fukin noob will require me to learn to use thott...gosh....

Sao.

pd: ahh, by the way, Bastet, i have my own webserver, if you need to host the dkp site there is plenty of space for you there, free of charges...
Title: Problem with GUILDBANK and MONEYBAGZ
Post by: Padding on May 17, 2006, 02:53:40 PM
Well, like TL also wrote... posts are easily misunderstood

"so-called-officers" usually indicates that you dont really think we are officers, only so-called. That might mean nothing to you, but certainly it hits us where we are vulnerable, since we take a lot of pride in our work.

Lets just continue to work together as a guild, and be nice to eachother. Its that commitment has has given us the reputation:


THE FRIENDLIEST GUILD ON THE SERVER  :D
Title: Problem with GUILDBANK and MONEYBAGZ
Post by: TeaLeaf on May 17, 2006, 02:58:59 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by saori+May 17 2006, 02:34 PM-->
QUOTE(saori @ May 17 2006, 02:34 PM)
it would be easier to say "guild bank has no rules at the moment, and we are working on it". [/b]
Title: Problem with GUILDBANK and MONEYBAGZ
Post by: Dajo on May 17, 2006, 03:01:21 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by saori@May 17 2006, 02:34 PM

Well, guys, you are doing a great job, SoG is real big and works fine (in almost every aspect) but well, i had more fun playing in SoG months ago with a lot of good friends like Adu, Iruga, Rexxon, Tuana and so, than the fun im having now where im in a guild i cant even ask a simple "quest related question" in guild chat because a fukin noob will require me to learn to use thott...gosh....

Sao.

I have to agree on this part tbh. The friendlyness and accomplishment of people arent very appreciated sometimes lately, just 30 minutes ago, Oneangel got her Benediction, which is a HUGE thing for a priest imo, when she said it in guildchat, all I saw was me gratzing here and stuff...while there were lots more people online...and about the questions...sometimes if you dont know things, you been called a noob, or directed to thottbott, whilest it only takes a few secs to give an proper answer...but anyways this is my opinion offcourse. :)
Title: Problem with GUILDBANK and MONEYBAGZ
Post by: Marduk on May 17, 2006, 03:04:16 PM
pffft.. "so-called-officers"  ... these people bust there balls for us you know...
they dont just sit on there TANGO talk about stuff all day they keep the guild running
they make the hard calls nobody wants to make, they keep the dkp site running, they keep this very site were using now running, they work hard so many others can raid and have a good time in sog, so GIVE THEM SOME TANGOING RESPECT and please show some patience when you ask them something

as for the asking stupid questions in guild chat, if you would have alt/tabbed and only typed a part of that question in the thottbot search, you would have gotten a quicker awnser, so yes i said something
and from the thereby followed debate i got so tired i trew out guild chat out of my UI for a while

just my 2cents

Marduk
Title: Problem with GUILDBANK and MONEYBAGZ
Post by: TeaLeaf on May 17, 2006, 03:10:34 PM
The general message for all is:

Tolerance and Respect for Each Other.

Let the thread now get soem rest ;)

TL.
Title: Problem with GUILDBANK and MONEYBAGZ
Post by: Sinap on May 17, 2006, 04:04:48 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by Marduk@May 17 2006, 02:04 PM
as for the asking stupid questions in guild chat, if you would have alt/tabbed and only typed a part of that question in the thottbot search, you would have gotten a quicker awnser, so yes i said something
[post=127408]Quoted post[/post]
[/b]

Sorry to drag this on, but seriously, if someone asks a question about something, why not just say something like, "hmm... you get it here...." or "sorry, I dont know, you could check thottbot I suppose", but by the way Saori put it, it sounds a bit harsh for a simple question, and it doesnt seem like a stupid question to me!

If it wasnt like this, sorry my bad, I wasn't there, but thats just what I think.
Title: Problem with GUILDBANK and MONEYBAGZ
Post by: Marduk on May 17, 2006, 05:47:09 PM
QuoteIf it wasnt like this, sorry my bad, I wasn't there, but thats just what I think.

it wasnt, lets keep it to that please


QuoteThe general message for all is:

Tolerance and Respect for Each Other.

Let the thread now get soem rest

good idea and lets try and stick to that :)
Title: Problem with GUILDBANK and MONEYBAGZ
Post by: Sebas on May 17, 2006, 05:52:24 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by Dajo@May 17 2006, 04:01 PM
The friendlyness and accomplishment of people arent very appreciated sometimes lately, just 30 minutes ago, Oneangel got her Benediction, which is a HUGE thing for a priest imo,
[post=127406]Quoted post[/post]
[/b]

Still congratulations from me Oneangel :cheers: better late than never. :)
Title: Problem with GUILDBANK and MONEYBAGZ
Post by: Vargen on May 17, 2006, 06:16:28 PM
There are a lot of good points made on all sides here, but in the end we are all one guild and we should stick together. It is very easy to think that it is the easy life for officers here, but let me tell you, it's not. At the moment I belive Bastet made a summary "To do list" for us with no less then 12 points that need attention. Not one of them involved anything about the guild bank, sorry.
I know some would like items form guildbank, and I try to hand out what I can when I can if I see it as a investment for the guild and our future. However when it comes to matters where I have more requests then I can accomodate, I tend to put it aside and evaluate the situation. In case of where many want the same stuff, you need to consider; what will benefit the balance of the raid or the progress needed. Who will gain the most from the item, give the most back. Who actually shows up, and are able to show up.
A lot of factors are in there, and I am also sorry I haven't updated what I have given out and not on the public post.

To be honest I have even lost count of how many people are in the guild myself. We are a lot of people with different needs and expectations. It is an impossible task to keep everyone satisfied at any given moment. So I ask you to point your blades and sharp tongues at a common goal and not eachother. Give em hell in Blackrock Mountain and in the desert sands of Ahn'qiraj.

I lead this guild with pride, and with the best damn officers there are.
Where others turn on eachother and go their seperate ways, we have risen and moved on. We play the game well and have more fun then anyone else. Let's keep it that way.
Title: Problem with GUILDBANK and MONEYBAGZ
Post by: Neff on May 17, 2006, 08:02:03 PM
And dont forget that some of the officers have some kind of RL too ya know, like eating and sleeping happens too. Jk :D

YOu officers do a kickass job running this guild, the day this guild gets boring to play with im quitting wow.

:thumbsup:
Title: Problem with GUILDBANK and MONEYBAGZ
Post by: saori on May 18, 2006, 08:15:22 AM
QuoteOriginally posted by Marduk@May 17 2006, 02:04 PM
as for the asking stupid questions in guild chat, if you would have alt/tabbed and only typed a part of that question in the thottbot search, you would have gotten a quicker awnser

[post=127408]Quoted post[/post]
[/b]


Well, Marduk, who the hell are you to say about "stupid questions"?? uh?? and you are claming for respect to each other with this kind of stuff??

As for the "so called officers" frase, my fault, i wasnt thinking on the sense of the frase the way people here had do, so sorry, now i know and i will avoid using it.

If you, Officers, had so much work as you had stated, why dont you just recruit more officers so you can share the work among more members? I had never told that officers work was a piece of cake, i had just argued about bank management.

And all this for a TANGOing felheart belt, damn, you can keep the item and disenchant it if you wish, i dont TANGOing give a damn for it, its just a game, for god sake! but the real problem here is the people that had forgot that "friendship" that made SoG a great guild, people like the ones telling about stupid questions for example. In my opinion SoG isnt as friendly as months ago, things had changed a lot and we are forgetting the "good manners". SoG members dosent have the fault that i cannot play more, but pisses me off that when i have time to play and share some good time (or moments) with my fellow guild members, i get answers like "check thotts, stupid question, and so". It seems that WoW is now reducced only to raiding and nothing else, well, im not sure if i like it this way...

Sao.
Title: Problem with GUILDBANK and MONEYBAGZ
Post by: Padding on May 18, 2006, 08:47:18 AM
I have to beg the differ here. I feel that the guild spirit is stronger than ever. Yes a lot of the time its focused on raiding, but thats why many of the players are playing at all. If it wasnt for raiding and guild spirit, i personally would've quit WoW long time ago.

I can easily understand your frustrations, but we are only human and the more people we get in the guild, the more we have to stick together to keep the spirit high.

Sometimes stupid remarks are made, god knows i've made mine... Guild spirit is also about forgiving, and even though people sometimes comes with "stupid" remarks, the thing that will keep the guild together is the ability to see beyond the guild chat and look at the player on the other side of the screen. You never know if they are having a bad day, or what their personaly situation is about. I know say that justify's being "rude", but the person that can see through all the text, and discover the person behind the keyboard, is the person that also are contributing to keeping things high in the guild.
Title: Problem with GUILDBANK and MONEYBAGZ
Post by: Bob on May 18, 2006, 08:56:36 AM
I don't have anything to add about the original topic of this thread, but I would like to back up Saori a bit on some of the other points that have been made in some of the posts:
QuoteOriginally posted by saori+May 18 2006, 08:15 AM-->
QUOTE(saori @ May 18 2006, 08:15 AM)
but the real problem here is the people that had forgot that "friendship" that made SoG a great guild, people like the ones telling about stupid questions for example. In my opinion SoG isnt as friendly as months ago, things had changed a lot and we are forgetting the "good manners".
[post=127543]Quoted post[/post]
[/b]
I have to agree a bit with Saori on this one.  SOG started as a pure casual guild with the major part being RL friends, and everything was about playing together, having fun, joking around and all that stuff.  I don't say that we don't have any fun anymore, and we definetly joke around (a lot!) - but from time to time I can see signs that there is (and has been for a small time) a small change of attitude.

It's not that I don't like that we more and more turn into a (hard-core?) raiding guild (I guess that's the way it has to go if we're gonna make it as a big strong guild), but that doesn't need to compromise with an allover nice and friendly attitude towards eachother.  What do one have a guild for, if not to ask "stupid" questions in guild chat (and btw: I've learnt that there are no such thing as a stupid question; only stupid answers)?

The last month have been a bit tense with all the absence problems, and in times like these it's more important than ever that we all make an extra effort to help eachother "get through the day".  I don't remember where I read this, but I think it' a nice thing to bear in mind: "Remember the three R's: Respect for self; Respect for others; Responsibility for all your actions" :)

And just to finish off, I'd like to quote Vargen, cause I think he said it very well earlier:
Title: Problem with GUILDBANK and MONEYBAGZ
Post by: TeaLeaf on May 18, 2006, 12:23:41 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by Threbrilith+May 18 2006, 08:56 AM-->
QUOTE(Threbrilith @ May 18 2006, 08:56 AM)
but that doesn't need to compromise with an allover nice and friendly attitude towards each other. [/b]
Yes and this applies to the way people write on the forums too.
QuoteOriginally posted by Vargen@
Where others turn on eachother and go their seperate ways, we have risen and moved on. We play the game well and have more fun then anyone else. Let's keep it that way.
/signed.

Let the thread get some peace and quiet now.  Saori has his answer and clearly needs some quality cool off time.  Officers can add another item to the To Do List.  Members need to get back to enjoying themselves.

Title: Problem with GUILDBANK and MONEYBAGZ
Post by: Neff on May 18, 2006, 02:22:27 PM
QuoteWhere others turn on eachother and go their seperate ways, we have risen and moved on. We play the game well and have more fun then anyone else. Let's keep it that way.
/signed should be written down

QuoteMove along please, there's nothing to see here..........
Oh my god i lol'd ! xD :worship:
Title: Problem with GUILDBANK and MONEYBAGZ
Post by: Bob on May 18, 2006, 03:19:43 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by Neff+May 18 2006, 02:22 PM-->
QUOTE(Neff @ May 18 2006, 02:22 PM)
Title: Problem with GUILDBANK and MONEYBAGZ
Post by: sitha on May 18, 2006, 03:27:32 PM
QuoteOriginally posted by Threbrilith@May 18 2006, 04:19 PM
Yeah, but did you move along??? Oh no... :narnar:

Did you?  :dummy:
Title: Problem with GUILDBANK and MONEYBAGZ
Post by: TeaLeaf on May 18, 2006, 03:31:26 PM
As I said.  Move along please, I think we have exhausted this particular thread.  If there's a decent point to debate then by all means start a new thread, but let's nto just keep bumping this for the sake of it!  So, thread closed.

Thanks.

TL.
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