Ok, PCS rules state that there are times when boundaries are null and void. Classic example being when the bomb is planted, and then all bets are off, and rightly so IMO.
However, what is the thought about hossie maps.
I was playing a hossie map and a CT grabbed two hossies and ran. The other two remained in situ. I chased but was prevented from following due to boundaries (actually i think the map was Thunder, where I couldnt follow down the bottom exit).
Were my actions correct, or would i be given licence to chase my quarry until hossies were safeguarded?
Any thoughts appreciated.
You chase 'em down, kill the pesky CT and guard them from further rescue attempts.
IMHO.
Good point tho CB. We ought to include something in the rules.
Let's hear your thoughts on the matter peeps and the admins will formulate some guidelines.
As far as im aware once any number of hozzies are in the process of being rescued, as in the CTs have collected them, the limits are off, as the Ts job is to prevent the hostages from being rescued, whether that is all four or just one. However having said that, it may at certain times be to your advantage to cut your losses and protect your remaining hostages.
I can see all kinds of problems on this topic:
If i do shoot said pesky CT, and hossies become "safe" again, boundaries can not be re-initialised because another ct could simply walk up and take them back once T has retreated.
If T does stay with rescued hossies, then can other Ts join him to create defensive position ? Or does he go solo, with other Ts still restricted by boundaries?
Do all boundaries get removed once this situation occurs, or is it just the pertinent ones thats apply (as with the bottom entrance on thunder in my example)?
I think it only applies to some maps, especially thunder where a fave tactic of mine is to grab a single hossie and retreat to gain cash for CT team. It aint gonna matter on somewhere like assault where all 4 guys are in one place and it would be a CT of great stupidity to take only a couple once he's in a position to rescue (I'm thinking of someone like Smilodon when I say this :) :) :) )
Oh dear, this could run and run......
hah! TL will soon dazzle us with rules so long and complex we'll need supercomputers to understand them! :lol:
Sorry. I also think that once you've killed the CT the boundaries should be dropped so you can cover the escaped hostage. But it does not give the T's an excuse to go and hunt down the CT's
My opinion is that once the CT is dead and the Hossies (2 for instance) are stationary then the boundaries should come back into force. HOWEVER, Ts must be allowed to cover the area where the hossies are even if that is outside said boundaries and must also be allowed to go outside the boundaries to support any Ts covering the aforementioned hossies. Obviously, this should not be seen as an invitation to go on a fraghunt.
There is no hard and fast answer I guess. If people play in the spirit of PCS then that is fine IMHO.
If CT is killed then it seems obvious that T would need to stay with hossies.
Surely now hossies are split would it not be feasible that T should split their team to "cover" both groups of hossies (be it inside or outside boundaries, but not allowing T to go further outside boundaries than where hossies are now located).
Although it would mean CT have to fight off T to get to hossies again this would not disadvantage CT as the T force would only be at half strength at each hossie group.
blimey I can't half go on sometimes 8O
Basically what BlueBall said (It was posted while I was typing my post :oops: )
The question to ask of course is, has this ever been a problem for PCS play in the past? Have there ever been any issues, arguements or confusion while playing a hossie map?
Is this a genuine issue or just MouseBoy trying to sound like he has a clue what he's talking about?
There ya go then :wink:
Quotehah! TL will soon dazzle us with rules so long and complex we'll need supercomputers to understand them! :lol:
Sorry. I also think that once you've killed the CT the boundaries should be dropped so you can cover the escaped hostage. But it does not give the T's an excuse to go and hunt down the CT's
/supercomputer mode ON
If the hossies are in the process of being rescued, then you havan 'all bets are off' situation. Retaining control fo the hossies is your primary goal and thus you stay there and protect them. Boundaries are irrelevant in that situation. but as G-man said, don;t use it as a CT-frag-hunting excuse!
/bedazzling mode OFF
TL. 8)
Irrelevant really Smil-o-don
PCS is a rule based game, and any confusion on rules should be clarified.
Same as when people were posting about using "bunk ups" to place bombs on inaccesible areas. I've never seen it happen on MH, but the question was still asked. Now sit down. :twisted:
I've you've never seen assists onto boxes etc by T's then you must have been running about with your eyes shut........hold on that explains everything :wink:
Sarcy git :wink:
You set 'em up baby, an' I'll knock 'em down
I find it quite useful to just retrieve 1 or 2 hozzys to get some cash for the CT team......also it can be used as a good ambush tactic to take down the t's as they rush to cover the extraction
As for T's then turning it into a frag fest
....well if some of the hozzys are taken to the rescue point (and gained money) then that’s the trade off for not getting them all ......and limits should be removed.......
but if taken to an extreme it will push the limits of pcs....ie all camp/hide wait till a hozzy is touched then all t's rush ct spawn and hold it
If a CT rescues 2 of 4 hostages T should return within boundaries to guard the two remaining hostages. That is their objective.
QuotePosted: Fri Mar 07, 2003 8:05 pm Post subject:
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If a CT rescues 2 of 4 hostages T should return within boundaries to guard the two remaining hostages. That is their objective.
thinking about it that sounds much better :P :P :P
But that's too 'black and white'.
The question [paraphrased] was 'if the hostages are being rescued can you chase them outside the boundaries?'.
The answer is 'YES'. Whether you should or not depends on a lot of things.
QuoteBut that's too 'black and white'.
The question [paraphrased] was 'if the hostages are being rescued can you chase them outside the boundaries?'.
The answer is 'YES'. Whether you should or not depends on a lot of things.
Well I was answering the second question "what to do if I chase down a CT but the CT manages to save 2 hostages".
The first one is as you answered.
Particular problem that arose on Shogun last night was that I had rescued two hossies and then got shot at CT spawn presumably by a "chasing" T.
If in the inrerim period the other two hossies had been "collected" would you not then get a situation that the T would, in returning to the designated area, effectively be blocking the CT and no longer "chasing"?
(ie) CT would be sandwiched between "chasing" T and "returning" T)
In addition (same map) and having spawned later than the rest of the team, a T took me out at about halfway in the lower tunnel approach to the house so I guess if the T's don't know which way the hossies went we could face a scenarion where T's are fanning out to chase a CT with hossies!! :?
To be fair I personally believe that if the T's do not defend the hossies adequately then that should be their loss and they should not be permitted to leave their zone.
Well, I think we've proved fairly conclusively that this is an issue on some maps (please note Smiley :wink: )
Theres no clear answer is there? It really is a question of situational awareness that I cant see hard and fast rules being applied to.
To put it simply, if some hossies are rescued, then boundaries should be null and void until the situation is resolved. If they end up being rescued then any following Ts should abandon chase ASAP and return to primary job of protecting remaining Ts, not chasing down the escaping CT as revenge.
If they are prevented from being extracted then Ts are allowed to establish defensive positions using common sense avenues to said defensive position (you cant have a hard rule on this due to countless situational variables). Voice comms should be essential here.
No T scalping missions should be tolerated (how to enforce I dont know - a question for admins I suspect).
You will get complaints no doubt from CTs walking into "safe" areas that happen to contain Ts in said defensive positions, but then the CT should be aware of whats happened if teamwork has been at the fore.
It really is something thats hard to plan - if everyone plays in the spirit of PCS I see no problems.
The only other way is to follow Dingos advice and say that boundaries are in place until the last hossie is on the move. It's the only way to be sure.
I think people get too hung-up on the boundary issues.
PCS really is a simple concept based upon two principles:
1. Work as a team.
2. Complete the objective.
When you've been playing PCS long enough then, even when you play a new map, the boundaries need defining less and less.
In all honesty their only use is to help reinforce the change in ethos that new players to PCS will have to adapt to. For example, a new PCS player will argue that by rushing into the T/CT spawn and killing everyone there then this will prevent the bomb being planted/hostages from being rescued. He's right but where's the teamwork? He's more likely to be killed so leaving his team to defend with a man down. The boundary rule stops this. But after time you know what's expected of you and the boundaries become less of an issue and the teamwork/objective takes focus.
So getting back to these stooooopid hossies (who, BTW, don't even deserve to be rescued when they can't be bothered to climb ladders, shout out 'He's behind the crate' or even run to safety etc.).
My advice when playing as T on hostage maps (when hostages have been moved) is to guard the hostages in the best possible way so as to win the round. DUH! This will mean using team communications to decide whether it's best to concentrate on the unmoved hostages or chase down the moving ones or even do both.
Whatever you decide to do should be done in PCS style without the worry of whether you overstepped the map boundary.
QuoteYou will get complaints no doubt from CTs walking into "safe" areas that happen to contain Ts in said defensive positions, but then the CT should be aware of whats happened if teamwork has been at the fore.
I think that the CTs should be extra carful when hostages have been taken or rescued. They know that the Ts are allowed to chase them down so it should not be a surprise that Ts could be encountered 'mid way'.
Also Ts might not know that only 2 of 4 hostage have been taken e.g. it could be a single T left and he only hears that the hostages are touched.
But if T knows that there are 2 hostage left then they should focus on guarding them. This is why voicecomm is important. If you don't have a mic buy one!
/me shakes hand at Oldie
Damn you voice of reason !
QuoteIn addition (same map) and having spawned later than the rest of the team, a T took me out at about halfway in the lower tunnel approach to the house so I guess if the T's don't know which way the hossies went we could face a scenarion where T's are fanning out to chase a CT with hossies!! :?
Which was the real point I was making (not eloquently enough obviously due to some of the replies!! :( )
How does one exert jurisdiction on which way a T can chase down a CT?....does he have to be following the CT or can a T use any route to cut off a potential hossie rescue including getting to CT spawn first to ambush the CT.....Isn't that what happens on a public server? :? 8O
I was really asking if, T's are allowed to chase down CT's, then should there be a cut off point?
I'll just shut up now and go and hide in a corner......safer that way!! :oops: :oops:
Oldie puts it most eloquently and in a way confrims my rather tongue in cheek response, that there is no real issue here.
Once a CT picks up a hossie the whole dynamic of the round changes. From being defenders the T's are now hunters. As long as everyone knows the effect that grabbing a hossie has, then there's no problem.
Again as Oldie says regarding boundaries, we shouldn't be saying "Am I allowed past here?".
We should be saying "Why on earth should I want to go past here."
Players shouldn't really cross boundaries and there should be no real reason why they would want to. Boundaries just keeps it neat and arguement/interpretaion free.
T's will chase down CT's with hossies. T's will then try to get back to defend any remaining hossies as soon as the first ones are rescued. And they will kill any CT they meet on their way back if they can. Assuming they know exactly where he is T's might even hide from the returning CT and ambush him on the way back.
Sorry Dingo but if you had just delivered Hossies to therescue point and were heading back it would be wise to assume T's could be anywhere on the map and act accordingly.
I'm no PCS veteran here, but I still humbly maintain that as soon as the first hossie gets touched all bets are off (as it would be in real life) and that there isn't a problem here.
So to precis the discussion:
If we see Dingo we shoot him!
There, I think I've got it?
Quote If we see Dingo we shoot him!
....I think at this point that is a given
me bows out :?
QuoteQuote If we see Dingo we shoot him!
....I think at this point that is a given
me bows out :?[/b]
Get those pods botting Dingo and you'll be I3373r than a I337 thing.
On the subject of being dead a lot it might be an idea to open a new forum on this bulletin board.
Dingos Spot - A forum for posting hints, tips and ideas about how to play CS better. Share those secrets, those cool moves and those special spots on the map that guarantee a kill. I know there's a hidden tactics section for dMw members and it would be daft to publish any of that on an open forum, but Dingo needs your help - in fact a fair few of us need your help too :!:
Also it's very quiet tonight. I quite look forward to my end of evening forum read as a wind down, but there wasn't much posted tonight. You all out having fun?
Nite :)