Dead Men Walking

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I'll post my healing strategy later today (need to work), we might indeed learn something from eachother.

One thing I did notice is that Recap doesn't register the HoT effect of regrowth as overheal if the target is at full health. Maybe it's a bug in the version I downloaded; a new version came out yesterday so I'll check if it that has the same 'error'. This might explain the 5-10% difference in efficiency between regrowth and HT, since the initial heal of regrowth is smaller and thus is less likely to overheal.

Where did you find that new version of Recap that you're talking about?  The one at Curse Gaming hasn't been updated since 16. of January this year...

everytime I see this thread I think "why doesn't that guy post in the hardware section if his monitor is overheating" ... then I realise it's not a spelling mistake in the subject :rolleyes:

Oops, I got mixed up with KTMTreathMeters.
There is no new version of Recap yet, sorry for that  :blush: .

As to my 'monitor overheating', yes I sort of have a problem with that too. It 'flat lined' five times already  :angry:  (single white line on the screen, no vertical deflection). I'm currently looking for a new one, but they kind of stopped making CRT's and I just can't bring myself to it to buy an LCD (you got either good image quality or good response time, you can't have both  :( ).

QuoteOriginally posted by Sandrion@Jul 6 2006, 10:44 AM
you can't have both :(

I reckon you'd be pleasantly surprised by the current stock of LCDs...

the last version of scrolling combat text shows you the overheal for each heal u do (set with /sct)

QuoteOriginally posted by Sandrion@Jul 6 2006, 10:49 AM
I'll post my healing strategy later today

Well here it goes.

Mainly I'm using HT rank 4, since it's very mana efficient if you have enough +healing gear. If the rate of incoming damage is too high and I can't keep up with HT rank 4, I'll switch to higher rank heals, still slightly underhealing my target so I don't waste any mana; unless my target is taking damage, like the tanks (an overhealed tank is better then a dead tank). Watching you targets health while casting a healing spell is also very important, it's no use healing someone with a full health bar ;) . I also try to keep rejuvenation on the tanks depending on the rate they are taking damage and the rate they're getting healed. I hardly ever use regrowth, because its HoT effect is usually wasted. It is however usefull in emergencies, since the HoT effect can keep your target alive while you're casting a big heal on them.

I also checked Recap again and it indeed doesn't seem to register the HoT effect of regrowth. After a baron run it showed 13% overheal for HT and 4% for regrowth (which can't be true). If you check the details for regrowth, the 'ticks' field is also blank, unlike the one for rejuvenation. If you reset Recap and cast regrowth on yourself you'll see that only the initial amount of healing shows up. Too bad, other then that it's a great mod.

QuoteOriginally posted by Asheera@Jul 6 2006, 06:15 PM
the last version of scrolling combat text shows you the overheal for each heal u do (set with /sct)

Nice, might give that a try.

Overhealing from HOTs dont come up in anyway in the combat log, etc. So they cant be monitored.

so unless u just use HT, ur overhealing is gonna be highhhhh

Quote from: Voretexso unless u just use HT, ur overhealing is gonna be highhhhh

Well, I wouldn't say that...

Because when you come to HoTs, who's fault is it actually that you overheal?  Say if a player needs 1k health, and you throw a rejuv that will fix that, and just a sec after some tit comes in and fills him up, which mean 800 of your rejuv is wasted.  I'd say that the overhealing is actually on that last guy, and not on you - even thoug it's your spell that overheals...

And the biggest benefit with using HoTs is that you spread out the aggro over a much longer time, which is quite benificial for yourself :smile:


So HoTs ain't bad at all, it just requires some more "thought" to use 'em effectively, and hope somebody doesn't screw it up for you :happy:

Well with the ammount of healing in our raids now, i sometimes think it goes like this: HEEEEY GUYS, theres one over there taking damage, JUMP HIM! and you get like 20k healing for 2k dmg :tongue: i think our actual raid overheal is quite bad

Quote from: BastetWell with the ammount of healing in our raids now, i sometimes think it goes like this: HEEEEY GUYS, theres one over there taking damage, JUMP HIM! and you get like 20k healing for 2k dmg :tongue: i think our actual raid overheal is quite bad

I definately agree with that. In RG2 the average overhealing is about 30 to 40 percent (some healers even overheal for about 60 percent :thumbsdown: ). Personally I partially blame emergency meters for the behaviour you stated. It was the first thing I noticed when I joined RG2. The person with the lowest health will get spammed by a lot of big heals. Emergency meters are nice, but should be used for just that, emergencies; not for diciding who to heal for the extend of the raid.
 
Tanks get targets assigned, why not do the same for healers? I don't nessecarily mean specific targets but groups of classes, so there is less overlap. Currently we have a everybody heals everybody strategy and it ain't working so well if you ask me. (Just an example: last MC raid I seemed to be solo healing the MT in the Golemag fight. I still had 25% mana left at the end and didn't use innervate or pots so it wasn't much of a problem, but it shouldn't happen). The MT should get some healers assigned; a druid and pally would work well imho (one with mana efficient big heals, one to counter spikes).
 
 
And about the HoT part. I mostly agree with you on that Bob. The problem is, when everyone is fully buffed, you can't always see if someone has a HoT on them (CTRA only have 4 buff slot per char showing in the UI). It can also be unclear for other healers what the 'intent' of the HoT is, sometimes it's for helping to mitigate some of the incoming damage (tank / other classes that are currently taking damage), sometimes for bringing someone back to full health. If you compare HT to regrowth, I think HT will give you less overheal, simply because the HoT is mostly wasted as you already stated.
 
Although I have to say that it would be nice to see what the improved regrowth talent does to the efficiency of the spell. 50% crit change + normal crit change; the changes your spell will heal twice as much are pretty high and it might be more mana efficient in terms of HP/mana on average then HT (although not 100% reliable).

Sandrion for a note you can setup CTRA to show only the buffs you want it too.. mine only shows the buffs which mages can apply just for that reason that CTRA only shows 4..:smile:

Durids is storng for bar form ,and u dotn haf 2 heel if u dnot leik, kk?

Quote from: kregoronSandrion for a note you can setup CTRA to show only the buffs you want it too.. mine only shows the buffs which mages can apply just for that reason that CTRA only shows 4..:smile:

Yes, you're right, you can priotize them.
But not everyone does that, and some are already using those 4 slots to watch other things, like pally buffs.

I would recommend using SW stats

http://curse-gaming.com/en/wow/addons-2909-1-sw-stats.html (http://curse-gaming.com/en/wow/addons-2909-1-sw-stats.html)

you can monitor healing, over-healing, effective healing and healing per mana point with this.

Also with a syncronized channel it can give officers alot of information they might want, like who is and isn't decursing, Peak DPS, Avg DPS, Distribution between damage schools.

Recap is very accurate when it comes to your own stats, but it is really inacurate for group information since it doesn't have any sync possibilities.

Overhealing shouldn't go over 30% but between 20-25% overheal is expected in my opinion. For healing strategies it really falls down to how every healer likes healing. For example when i play my paladin i either use emergency monitor or the MTtarget/Warriors(exceptions for fights with limited persons available for targeting).
If alot of people like to use emergency monitor try giving instructions on presets on it. You can change it so that only certain classes or groups show up on it and if a raid leader says group1, 2 and 3 only target warriors, group 4 target rogues and hunters and groups 5, 6,7 and 8 target other classes

But ultimatly it falls down on the raid leaders to take the time to create healing strategies. It isn't hard and it will not take alot of time to do. The problem is mostly that the fights really don't need healing tactics and if you compare the first tactics written by conquest for MC to the tactics written for AQ40 and BWL you will notice that in the early days healing tactics were written for the encounters but not any more since people have realized they aren't really needed to beat the encounters.
Simple healing tactics are easy to create like the 3group rotation where 1 is  resting while 1 group heals tanks and the other heals everyone else.
Currently there are only 3 fights in the game that i know of that actually need healing strategies that are more then just heal your group or heal people on that side. Those are Patchwerk, Four Horse Men and Loatheb in Naxxramas.

I'm gonna try out SW stats - from what I've heard and seen, it looks like it could work :smile:

Quote from: DrazilaThe problem is mostly that the fights really don't need healing tactics

That is true, but none the less, it's not a reason to start incorporating 'em.  Cause if we get used to use healing strategies on the "easy" fights, it will come automatically on the hard ones.  And we don't have to use time learning the healing tactics when we need them; cause we already know them :happy:

SW stats looks nice, I'll give it a try.
 
20%-25% overheal sounds about right. Last MC run I got down too +/- 20% (new personal record :clap: ), a large part of that was because of crits (28%), the rest from rejuvenation and because I'm too late with canceling my heals :tongue: .
 
As for healing strategies. I'd rather assign healers to a particulair class, based on the way they heal, instead of assigning groups. Some are better in healing squizies, some are better at healing tanks. Although I don't have really thought about what this would look like exactly.

I use this Add on... Smartheal...


Quite useful... it tells me who is healing who...and the type of spell.... so i can decide to continue casting mine or chance the target...

It works well to avoid overhealing....

                                                                 Finegas

Quote from: Finegas;147712I use this Add on... Smartheal...
 
 
Quite useful... it tells me who is healing who...and the type of spell.... so i can decide to continue casting mine or chance the target...
 
It works well to avoid overhealing....
 
Finegas

That sounds pretty nice. Does everyone need that mod to see what they're casting or does is work regardless of whether they have it or not?

SWstats provides all that info too Finegas.  The officers use it and have done for some time now - it is a *very* revealing tool.  You can set it up and change it on the fly to measure any number of different statistics about the fight, per class, for a specific player, for a group etc.  It is *highly* configurable and very highly recommended.

The only thing I would add is to ask folks who do download it to not reset the data channel, please let the officers do that when they want it done - and when you get the vote to reset coming through from an officer then please accept it!  

TL.