Well, today i recived the following PM from Bastet:
"Flaming SoG or -=dMw=- is not a terribly smart thing to do, your posts have been moved, and you are strongly urged to tone down your language and calm down.
Once thats done feel free to post constructive input on the apporiate thread"
Actually i just posted that the new forums werent as good as the previous ones, and they werent working well. I used the word "suck", well, maybe it was quite to harsh for the officers to read that word, so let me apologize for it. If someone felt "flamed" for this, i apologize, it wasnt my intention.
But the fact is that:
1: forums arent clear enough
2: the new layout is messy and it dosent provide enough information about the new posts making it quite hard to look for the info of interest
3: skin is awful
4: most of the threads and topics where down when i posted the messege in the forums.
5: personally, when navigating i dont really know where i am, in which thread i am, and what i'm reading, so, i can say is easy to get lost.
If this "new forum" provide more control to officers its ok for me, im not discussing that, i just posted what i thougt, i didnt ment to "flame" no one, but seems that people tend to missunderstant the onformation in a cold medium like email or forum post.
Bastet: i was talking about FORUMS, not about PEOPLE. And my "input" was enough constructive since i was reporting errors i found (signatures, missing posts, messy information, etc.) :angry: So, in the future, better to PM me with stuff like this, why dont you simple try to ask what had happened? i mean, is much more effective a PM with something like "Mate, what did you write and why? there are better ways to state this, etc." that the one PM you sent me. I didnt intent to flame no one, you cannot say the same thing.
You have qualified and skilled people inside this guild with the capabilities for setting up forums wide better than this one, but officers intent allways to do things in their own way and manner without even asking out there "is any better idea for this? someone has something new that might be helpful?". So, it quite admirable the time and effort you and your fellow officers had spent in setting up this new system, and belive me, im quite gald for your effort, and effort that is only paid with the gratefulness of your guildmates and a new level of game experience, but beeing an officers dosent mean that every action you take might me liken for each guild member.
And in my modest opinion, i think this would be easier if you had setted up a test server so we can all make some test and check the functionality of this forums, at least all the SoG members are the ones interested in having a good forum, with a great look, with great functionality, etc.
Previous forum was great, this one it isnt! And if you dont like me to say this, feel free to CENSOR me again! :thumbsdown:
Sao...
Now, let me see if i can keep TL from completely blowing up here
Saori, you are apparantly not thinking the whole picture here. The old forums had a lot of problems regarding the flexibility of the system and other flaws, and since SOG is being FREE hosted by the DMW we are in no right to complain whatsoever imo
All new systems takes time to get better, and human studys shows that it takes 3 weeks to change a habit, so you wont be able to be satisfied with the new forums before after 3 weeks at least
Its expected that when you change systems like this, that there will be some things like the signature that you need to redo. Big deal. TL always said that the forums would look different and it will get improved in certain ways over the next 4-8 weeks.
So, i urge you and all else all to play around with the new forums and get the feeling of it, im starting to like it
Remember its always easier to criticise than beign constructive... maybe you could see the other side of the coin too?
Btw.... new forums provide this super cool smilie :taz:
Padding, you can allways simplify the migration from a system to another:
PREVIOUS SERVER----------------PRODUCTION SERVER
This is one of the 10 big rules of any system development. You cant place a new application, system, forum, whatever, directly in the production server, if you do so then errors will come....
For example, why do you think Blizzard provides a way of testing each content patch previous to the official release?
Or why do you think that every major webstie (yahoo, google, etc.) places a way of test their new webs prior to the official release? Answer: for preventing errors appear in the final release.
Well, i dont say that there wasnt a big effort for placing this new forum, and im sure it will fix a lot of the issues that the previous one has before, but what i DO SAY is that this might had be TESTED prior to opening it directly to all the users.
In the test side you can easily fix things and develop new funtionalities without bothering anybody, for that is the test side! and i thing this is ebough constructive!
As for the TAZ smilie.....:boff:
Sao
Saori, take a break.
I do believe that these new forums have been testet by the dMw administrators before they were released here.
So stop whining
Testing dont mean that you can fix everything, i mean after each patch by blizzard there is also tons of things they still have to fix. And some code just isnt compatible, just see your signature.
Here's the difference:
Other websites - gets payed to do the things they do
DMW - Free and done by interest
It KEY to remember that this is done by people out of shere interest and in their free time. Its some factors that you have to consider when criticising.
I'll bet that we can meet in 1-2 months time and you'll think that the new forums is way cooler than the old ones
Quote from: saoriSo, it quite admirable the time and effort you and your fellow officers had spent in setting up this new system, and belive me, im quite gald for your effort, and effort that is only paid with the gratefulness of your guildmates and a new level of game experience.
Where exactly im saying something about dont thinking that this is made by the interest of people that only look for the good of the guild and game using their own free time???
:blink: Sao
Quote from: MaziiSaori, take a break.
I do believe that these new forums have been testet by the dMw administrators before they were released here.
So stop whining
I will "whinn" all TANGO y want. Is easy to say that every single appreciation or idea that goes in front of the one stated is called a "whining", is amazing really! And we are talking here about being constructive?
Sao
Quote from: BastetTesting dont mean that you can fix everything, i mean after each patch by blizzard there is also tons of things they still have to fix. And some code just isnt compatible, just see your signature.
Yeah, i see the signature, because i didnt had the time to fix it yet, RL stuff called WORK, you know, i will fix it later.
And, is obvious that this was tested by DMW administrators, but wasnt tested by the users, that is the point!
And, Bastet, testing dosent mean that you can fix everything, but can give you a huge idea of the general functionality of the programm.
:eyebrow:
QuoteFor example, why do you think Blizzard provides a way of testing each content patch previous to the official release?
Or why do you think that every major webstie (yahoo, google, etc.) places a way of test their new webs prior to the official release? Answer: for preventing errors appear in the final release.
Seriously saori, you are out on a limb here. You are comparing DMW to companies like Blizzard and google who has millions of users and millions of dollars. Thats where you are mistaken and its not a fair comparison at all.
DMW did a fine job actually migrating all of our posts to these new forums. My initial expectation was that all posts had to be redone, so i think they did an excellent job
And it was decided to run this software since it offers more functionality over the old one that made the overall balance tip in favor of this system. as for the layout, thier working on it. We should be able to get our own sog template here soonish.
Here is what I think happened and what the real issue of this matter is:
Saori posted some comments/feed back in the thread about the new forum (I remember to have read it, but don't remember all details), maybe not all positive and constructive, but not anything harmfull at least.
Than Bastet sees that and cencors the post, which makes Saori a bit ****ed. And that I can get - getting cencored is never nice since freedom of speach and so on is looked upon as one of the most fundamental rights there is.
My oppinion is that posts shouldn't be cencored withour there being major reasons to do so, and a bit of negatice comments (that are not formulated in a 100% constructive way) isn't enough if you ask me. (This goes to Bastet in this case, but it's just a general thought I have :smile:)
When it comes to the implementing of the new forum I actually think it has worked out very good. There are some stuff that don't quite "feel" like the old forum, but I'm shure we'll get there if we just give the admins some time.
And to Saori: if you look through this thread (http://www.deadmen.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=14735) you'll see much feedback (both positive and negative) have been posted, and already much of it has been taken into concideration and corrected :smile:
Well, i didnt read the posts, but freedom of speach doesnt mean the freedom to insult. Im not shitting you over or something Saori, we're friends ;)
If it was insulting, i understand. But using a word as sucky(was it that?) at something that a group of people used their saturday on moving a website and server etc For free, well thats just insulting. Even though you didnt mean it. It's all about how people judge stuff.
Btw! I see the new forum has changes allready! i cant exactly put the finger on it, but i like it!:D
Quote from: PaddingSeriously saori, you are out on a limb here. You are comparing DMW to companies like Blizzard and google who has millions of users and millions of dollars. Thats where you are mistaken and its not a fair comparison at all.
DMW did a fine job actually migrating all of our posts to these new forums. My initial expectation was that all posts had to be redone, so i think they did an excellent job
Excactly what i was thinking, and i love to abuse the new emoticons :P
so don't :taz:or :byesad:otherwise u might wanna :help2: :narnar:
Quote from: PaddingSeriously saori, you are out on a limb here. You are comparing DMW to companies like Blizzard and google who has millions of users and millions of dollars. Thats where you are mistaken and its not a fair comparison at all.
DMW did a fine job actually migrating all of our posts to these new forums. My initial expectation was that all posts had to be redone, so i think they did an excellent job
i dont say the work done is bad, i just said that this could had be tested prior to the migration of the whole forum.
And i dont make those comparations, those where examples, dear Padding, for your information, im a software developer, and i allways place my code into test environments independiently the soft goes for 1 person, 10, 100 or 1000. For that are the testing sides.
Sao
Do you get payed for your job?
Quote from: PaddingDo you get payed for your job?
Not allways, my friend, not allways, but i do allways work in the same way!
QuoteNot allways, my friend, not allways, but i do allways work in the same way!
Well fair enough, but things always need to be in perspective
Quote from: PaddingWell fair enough, but things always need to be in perspective
What it isnt in perspective is that i got censured because Bastet didnt liked what it was written, and this was prior even to asking me in a PM what had happened (thing that of course he didnt do).
And this is totally out of the scope of friendshipness and fairness of this guild.
Im tired of beeing called a "whining" for posting my thoughts, im tired of try to post something constructive while people only bother to see the word "suck",
for me its ok, go along, this is only a game, and i just to have fun, i dont care about this forum, its functionallity or other stuff, at least i dont care anymore...
Sao.
QuoteWhat it isnt in perspective is that i got censured because Bastet didnt liked what it was written, and this was prior even to asking me in a PM what had happened (thing that of course he didnt do).
I agree there and i've told Bastet the same. We shouldnt be censoring, no matter if we like your opinion or not
QuoteIm tired of beeing called a "whining" for posting my thoughts, im tired of try to post something constructive while people only bother to see the word "suck",
Again i agree, i dont particular see things from your perspective, but i wouldnt call it whining. Im trying to see things from your side, but still i feel that my perspectives are more correct, but you shouldnt be called a whiner for that
Well we all seems to agree now!!!! :clap: :clap: :clap:
Since SOMEONE didn't bother to read the explanations or check out the info on the other parts of the forum, I'm gonna ignore that Warlocks post completly and assume there is no problem.
No you will not get cheese with your whine...:taz:
Okay, so I need to get used to the new looks, happened before on other forums and stuff. That's fine with me.
There is 1 little thing that annoys me to the bone....
I can't use my Jubling avatar anymore!!!:angry: It's size is either too big (resolution or size in Kb) or too small so you can't see it's a frog:thumbsdown:
Poor Jubling...how I miss you....
lol rather funny thread
Hmm I have now been reading all the thread.
So from my side, I dont have a problem with the forum. There is a few bugs, but there will allways be.
So all in all. This is a free forum, that you can use to see info about alot of things. And ppl have used there spare time to make this forum get up and moved.
So be happy to have a place to find info and some fun posts.
after reading the whole thread i can sai that DMT did a great work w/ the forum ! i need some more time to get used at this (atm i don't like the skin at all but it's not the basic thing)
I just have too say GJ dMw, really nice switching to vBulletin, in my oppion was really smart move, cause of the huge flexibility in the new forum engine compared to the old.. Im sure more people will like when a new graphics template is used.. i dont mind this atm.. ;)
And for the censorship, in my oppion there is need a certain degree of cencorship to prevent uneeded rant & flames on the forums.. ;)
New forum confused me, and I had to go find my password again :) my fault really, I can see a few differences which i'm not used to yet, for example, the stickies being sectioned off from the normal posts was very nice.
The new functionality is great and considering it's free i'm impressed, another ty to DMW. 2 things to be said:
1. AGAIN! don't censor things unless someone is blatently and unnecessarily over the line,even flaming someone can help to work out aggro and get a discussion going, this is where it's meant to be, after all, I could start a thread with 'Bastet, stop being a control freak', now if it got censored nothing would get worked out and i'd continue to take the mick out of you, but if a discussion were allowed to flow we may come to an understanding where it can be seen that I'm a free-thinking hippy, and you have deep seated insecurities from childhood that means you don't like lack of control, and we could all live happily ever after.
2. Just because something is free does not mean you have to like it or not offer criticism, it just means you shouldn't TELL someone to change it, after all, as a user, any well formed feedback can only help the developers, in fact, I consider it a duty, if I get something free, to help the providers as much as possible by letting them now ways they 'might want to' improve, but I won't complain if they don't. Of course having said that, the DMw people now know that when 'I' say thanks, it's cool, that I mean it, and I'm not just saying it 'cos it's free
Quote from: kregoronAnd for the censorship, in my oppion there is need a certain degree of cencorship to prevent uneeded rant & flames on the forums.. ;)
Expresión is the biggest sign of freedom the human being has, and if you censor it, then you are censoring the inner essence of human kind!
Any kind of censorship must be avoided in RL, and specially when we are in a friendly guild that can only comunnicate via email, forum, chat and TS.
/get down censorment
Sao
censorement is a must, in the past i can remember a guild member left the guild cuz there where a lot of crap in the guild chat and his son was reading it often.
This is the age old argument which if you do some searching on the forum's fabulously quick new search facility then you'll find previous rants.
Freedom brings with it responsibilities. You cannot talk about one without the other as one man's freedom impinges upon another man's freedom.
So please, when talking about the freedom remember to balance it with the responsibilities as they go hand in hand. Without the counterbalance you have to support terrorism, bombers, murderers, rapists etc. It's the logical conclusion of one without the other.
Without some some of social norm or standard, anarchy reigns.
TL.
Quote from: Asheeracensorement is a must, in the past i can remember a guild member left the guild cuz there where a lot of crap in the guild chat and his son was reading it often.
That is a matter that really can't be compared to this one. That specific case was due to excessive use of bad language, and censoring of that kind of specific content can be accepted (but you don't need to censor it all, only those "bad language" words... and this is bdw done automatically by the forum mostly now...).
What the case is here is much different. Here it's about censoring somebodys oppinoin about a case. Saying that you tink something/somebody sucks can hardly bee looked upon as bad language (perhaps not the most diplomatic way to express oneself, but none the less), and shouldn't really need any censoring at all.
Well, i dont have anything else to say about this topic. I had started a new thread in the general discussion zone.
Quote from: ThrebrilithThat is a matter that really can't be compared to this one. That specific case was due to excessive use of bad language, and censoring of that kind of specific content can be accepted (but you don't need to censor it all, only those "bad language" words... and this is bdw done automatically by the forum mostly now...).
What the case is here is much different. Here it's about censoring somebodys oppinoin about a case. Saying that you tink something/somebody sucks can hardly bee looked upon as bad language (perhaps not the most diplomatic way to express oneself, but none the less), and shouldn't really need any censoring at all.
ofc Bob i meant a censor was a must in the cas i mentioned.
if some1 censor your opinions the solution is just have a quite talk to him about that issue