So just to raise any interest how did the pratice go ??????
can u think of any things we should do better or areas to work on ect ?
I for one found this to be the best game of the night .....comments plz ....... :idea:
yeah i found it very good it always helps when you have someone watching the game and giving comments they seem to see the game from a diffrent view and there input was very useful so................. cheers TL :-)
i feel as CT with just about have aztec right? T needs a little more work imo and anyone with ideas feel free to shout out
bring on the next praccie i think we all benefit from them?well i do :D :twisted:
I missed the practice on Sunday (ear infection ...poor me :cry: ) but there were a couple of things I wanted to raise. These are just ideas thrown into the pot so feel free to rubbish them completely.....
1. Eco rounds on MR12 matches.
Can we afford two at the start? If we loose the first eco then we're automatically up against armour, grenades and either subbies or rifles. Seems a fair bet that we'll loose the second if we ego again and that puts us 2-0 down with no advantage. If we win the first eco then we would have the cash to buy quality kit and increase our chances to winning the second round against pistols and maybe MP5's at best. The second eco seems redundant either way.
2. Rushing.
I've played a fair few matches on Aztec and I'd argue that the team that rushes most effectively as T wins. The two bomb sites are far enough apart that the CT force is split between them and out of view of each other. Which ever way the T's come they are going to out number the CT's for a few crucial seconds (assuming the CT's split their force across both bomb sites. These seconds allow them to wipe out the CT's at the bomb site, plant the bomb and prepare the defence. The remaining CT's are then off the defensive and have to come to the T's who probably still out number them.
My match against Ebad saw us get beaten in all but one round as CT. As far as I remember, with the exception of a couple of diversionaries, Ebad attacked in numbers at either bomb site every round. Those of us at that bomb site went down to their superior numbers, and those CT's at the other bomb site were picked off as they moved across. Almost every round ended in a win by killing us rather than the bomb going off.
Our one win as T came from a bridge rush. We knocked over the two guys at the bridge room and planted immediately. Then we camped down and took on the four remaining CT's as they came across. 6 v4 with good defensive positions meant we were alble to take them all out as the bomb counted down even though we lost 4 players in the process.
The most important point on this map is to get the bomb down fast. Then the whole dynamic changes. Usually it's a matter of either taking out the CT's as they run (now on a time limit) toward the crouched T's or killing the first defuser when they are helpless defusing the bomb. The CT's rarely have the chance to have a second go at it. Assuming the T's slow the CT's down with supressing fire and greandes it's likely that the bomb will explode even if the T's all get killed. Defuse maps are obvioulsy unique in that the round doesn't end with the last T going down. Before a plant whoever kills the opponents wins, after the plant the CT's also have to have time to defuse the bomb as well.
There are two off the wall tactics I've seen as CT on Aztec.
First camp one bomb site with a 50/50 chance of them coming to you. The CT's should win if the T's pick the camped bomb site. If they go to the other there is still a chance that the CT's can charge them down while they are planting.
Second the CT's camp outside the bridge room, with only one watching the bridge, in the area that allows them to see the double doors. Which ever way the T's come (assuming it's a rush) the CT's can act as a group and by not having their team split across two bomb sites can take down the T's again. If it's a bridge rush the whole CT force is there to meet them. If it's a double door or water rush then the CT's can chase the T's down as they are planting (T's effectively one man down as he's planting the bomb).
I've been on the receiving end of these two tactics and we got thrashed.
Obvioulsy just some wild thoughts but as Squonk suggested I'm shouting out.
Quote
1. Eco rounds on MR12 matches.
Can we afford two at the start? If we loose the first eco then we're automatically up against armour, grenades and either subbies or rifles. Seems a fair bet that we'll loose the second if we ego again and that puts us 2-0 down with no advantage. If we win the first eco then we would have the cash to buy quality kit and increase our chances to winning the second round against pistols and maybe MP5's at best. The second eco seems redundant either way.
The second eco is the most important one actually.
Lost rounds and eco
Round 1 $800
Round 2 $800 + 1400 = 2400
Round 3 $2400 +1900= 4300
Lost rounds and no eco (calculated that we spend all money every round)
Round 1 $800
Round 2 $1400
Round 3 $1900
Round 4 $2400
Round 5 $2900
So you see that it takes 5 rounds until you can afford full armour and MP5 if we don't go eco. By going eco we get AK+Armour+HE by round 3.
Action Payoff / Fine Rescuing a Hostage
$1000 for individual, $150 for team mates (awarded at end of round)
Kill a Hostage
-$1500 for individual
‘Use’ a Hostage
$150 for individual, $100 for team mates
Kill Opponent
$300 for individual
Kill Team Mate
-$3300 for individual
Terrorists Win by Bombing Target
$2750 for team members
Win by Elemination Hostage map
$2000 for team members
Win by Elemination Bomb map
$2500 for team members
CTs Defuse Bomb
$2750 for team members
CTs Win by Rescuing Hostages
$2000 for team members + Hostage bonuses
Surviving Hostage Bonus
$150 per hostage for team members
Hostages Rescued Bonus
$250 per hostage for CT team members
Either Team Loses Round
$1400 for team members
Either Team Loses over 2 Consecutive Rounds
$1400 + $500 per round over 2 (to maximum $2900)
for team members
Quote So you see that it takes 5 rounds until you can afford full armour and MP5 if we don't go eco. By going eco we get AK+Armour+HE by round 3.
Assuming we would have lost if we had gone DEagle, HE or armour?
So we're effectively throwing away the second round to get a full pack in the third.
Assuming we lost the first round we're now eco against an opposition with armour and subbies. We eco again and loose that.
At the beginning of the third round we're playing against Augs/Sigs, Scouts and maybe a AWM, although we now have armour and AK47 or an M4 at a squeeze.
I can see the idea, but the other option is to go Deagle at the first round, and maybe win setting us up with the cash advantage for as long as we can keep using our weapon advantage to win rounds. It's a gamble I guess and would be dependant on how we fancies our chances with DEagles in the first round?
Thanks for the other prize info...very useful. I never realised you got cash for grabbing hossies. I'll try to get a lot more touchy feely in future :)
QuoteQuote So you see that it takes 5 rounds until you can afford full armour and MP5 if we don't go eco. By going eco we get AK+Armour+HE by round 3.
Assuming we would have lost if we had gone DEagle, HE or armour?
[/b]
Well, we don't go eco as defending team, we still loose the some rounds. :) We have been discussing this before. I once were of the same opinion as you. :D
Quote
So we're effectively throwing away the second round to get a full pack in the third.
Assuming we lost the first round we're now eco against an opposition with armour and subbies. We eco again and loose that.
At the beginning of the third round we're playing against Augs/Sigs, Scouts and maybe a AWM, although we now have armour and AK47 or an M4 at a squeeze.
Indeed. But if we don't go eco and still loose those rounds we don't have any decent submachine guns until round 4 or 5. The enemy will definitely have augs/AWMs by that time.
Note also that if we win the third round the CTs will not have as much money as they will at round 5 i.e. a loss at round 3 is more effective to us than at round 5.
Quote
I can see the idea, but the other option is to go Deagle at the first round, and maybe win setting us up with the cash advantage for as long as we can keep using our weapon advantage to win rounds. It's a gamble I guess and would be dependant on how we fancies our chances with DEagles in the first round?
I rock with the DEagle but without armour you are quite vunerable. If I buy something the first round I always go kevlar or HE almost never DE.
If you have to choose between weapon and armour always go armour.
I still think that a DE is very good at the bridge (if we discuss aztec) to stop a bridge rush as the bullets goes through the first enemy and could hit a second. I have discussed this matter with TL before. We always need to remeber that the enemy could pick up the DE. Then you might meet an opponent with DE and kevlar ...
Ok I'm sold on the double eco...in fact I just do what I'm told cause I'm a good little soldier. I'd still humbly suggest a look a T tactics on Aztec though
i am still to be convinced on a double eco at the start....but i can see a use if your are only chasing one or two rounds
I agree aztec "T" tactics need to be practiced ..... maybe we can concentrate on them and some variations next time
Not many people have posted who attended the practice ....lets have some improvement ideas :idea: pips
Its your time lets find how best to use it :wink:
I think the praccie went v well and that we should have it one a week on days that there are no matches or just have em on sundays before the match?
Sunday did work well as we had alot of people available...the more people that sign up for the match the more people we can get for a practice
if we use a day with no match on i would be surprised if we are able to field 2 full teams
More suggestions plz :P :P
I agree with a couple of posts with the CT tactics .......we pretty much have them down now (apart from too many going top ) :oops:
me thinks we need a good session trying different stuff as T .......'cos they're always the bargain rounds if ya can get a momentum goin' and sneak 4 or 5 rounds on smites fav. map AZTEC
perhaps even smitee could volunteer to be SL for a while .......he hates the map sooooo much he'd want to get it over with quickly :lol:
Sunday before the match worked fine for me ........i'd vote for that again if poss.
Definately in favour of a weekly practice, especially as I'm just getting to know the tactics for everything bar Aztec.
Most peeps are around sunday evenings - how does that sound to everyone. We can simply fit around matches on baldric
Sunday looks best again we have 9 people available for the match at 20:30
We cannot work on the day of rest :(
lol i dont count CS as work :lol:
it just comes down to getting together 10/12 players available..... the sunday match has 9 players available at the moment
if the other matches on other days have this sort of support then i would see no problem with a warm up before any of them if people are up for it
I've added some short praccie slots to availability. I can't make all of them, but there should be enough for a good review of taccies for those maps. I have tried to make sure they precede matches on a different map.
TL.
Anyone up for some practice tonight?
WOW again a big turn out for the practice .......TL on his usual form even with a cold gave us a good rub down on the tactics...thx TL
Also i must pat us all on the back for the way we held back and waited and listened when under instruction...alot of clans would just start killin eachother
Sorry to the people that turned up and didnt get to play but i am sure you had a laugh at watching us play :lol:
So any comments from players or you dead pips ...... in the wings watching :?:
.......me i find it usefull on the walkthrough and a great game
I hope everyone was paying close attention to my illustration how NOT to play CT on Dust2 tonight :wink:
Seriously though here are a few more mindless dribblings to think about.
1. CT position assignment.
I believe the standard approach is to run to the nearest bomb site dependant on spawn position. While this gets you into position quick you may not have the gun for the job. I was consistantly spawning near A site but only had either a DE or an MP5. Short A always seemed covered so I went long A and obvioulsy had a poor gun for the position. While I admit I never called the problem out, maybe we could consider cash levels and gun selections when deciding who goes where. Spawn position seems a bit of a blunt tool. If you have no gun call it and call that you are going to the most appropriate position for a close quarter weapon like a pistol or subbie.
2. Gun donation.
We never (very rarely) call for a gun from our colleagues. A standard one word call i.e "skint", could allow for a cash rich teamate to donate an AK47 or an M4 or failing that an MP5. It would have to be a quick call but it's an idea. It would mean we all went out with as much firepower as possible.
3. Bomb carrier.
There's a tendancy for the bomb carrier to stay at the back of the pack when we rush a bomb site. This seems a bit odd. The faster the bomb carrier gets to the plant site the faster the bomb goes down. As long as there is a team-mate behind them if they get shot then the follower just runs over the bomb and picks it up. Tonight I had to double back twice and collect the bomb as the carrier had been killed behind me (one from a sniper who was immediately killed & one from a grenade that was thrown over our heads). If they had been up front I or whoever could have run over the bomb and kept the momentum going.
There you go.
Quote1. CT position assignment.
I believe the standard approach is to run to the nearest bomb site dependant on spawn position. While this gets you into position quick you may not have the gun for the job. I was consistantly spawning near A site but only had either a DE or an MP5. Short A always seemed covered so I went long A and obvioulsy had a poor gun for the position. While I admit I never called the problem out, maybe we could consider cash levels and gun selections when deciding who goes where. Spawn position seems a bit of a blunt tool. If you have no gun call it and call that you are going to the most appropriate position for a close quarter weapon like a pistol or subbie.
you can cover short A with an mp5 ok, but if you find your self covering long A, just call the enemy position in and wait till they are in range
Quote2. Gun donation.
We never (very rarely) call for a gun from our colleagues. A standard one word call i.e "skint", could allow for a cash rich teamate to donate an AK47 or an M4 or failing that an MP5. It would have to be a quick call but it's an idea. It would mean we all went out with as much firepower as possible
I think it is good idea. but it could take a bit of time at spawn. May be we could try it.
Quote3. Bomb carrier.
There's a tendancy for the bomb carrier to stay at the back of the pack when we rush a bomb site. This seems a bit odd. The faster the bomb carrier gets to the plant site the faster the bomb goes down. As long as there is a team-mate behind them if they get shot then the follower just runs over the bomb and picks it up. Tonight I had to double back twice and collect the bomb as the carrier had been killed behind me (one from a sniper who was immediately killed & one from a grenade that was thrown over our heads). If they had been up front I or whoever could have run over the bomb and kept the momentum going.
the reason for this on is that the bomb doesn't get stuck out in an ambush, and leave the rest of the team the problem of retrieving it
Quote the reason for this on is that the bomb doesn't get stuck out in an ambush, and leave the rest of the team the problem of retrieving it
I don't think I explained myself very well. I was talking about bomb site rushes. Assuming the whole team is rushing a bomb site then as soon as the carrier is shot the second man would run over the bomb and push towards the plant site. If he went down the third man would pick up. This way the bomb is always up front and no time is wasted going back to retrieve it on a rush (which is time critical usually).
However a rush over the bridge would be treated totally differently as the bomb could well drop into the water and stall the rush completely.
Having the carrier as second man on rushes to many bomb sites keeps the momentum up as no one has to double back (even a few yards) to collect a dropped bomb. Again it's only suggested in a full on bomb site rush where if the bomb is dropped, it can't drop down to a lower level etc. Some bomb sites work with the idea and some don't.
Quote1. CT position assignment.
I believe the standard approach is to run to the nearest bomb site dependant on spawn position. While this gets you into position quick you may not have the gun for the job. I was consistantly spawning near A site but only had either a DE or an MP5. Short A always seemed covered so I went long A and obvioulsy had a poor gun for the position. While I admit I never called the problem out, maybe we could consider cash levels and gun selections when deciding who goes where. Spawn position seems a bit of a blunt tool. If you have no gun call it and call that you are going to the most appropriate position for a close quarter weapon like a pistol or subbie.
2. Gun donation.
We never (very rarely) call for a gun from our colleagues. A standard one word call i.e "skint", could allow for a cash rich teamate to donate an AK47 or an M4 or failing that an MP5. It would have to be a quick call but it's an idea. It would mean we all went out with as much firepower as possible.
The actual position is that we tend to assign a site and position to a person before we spawn at the match start - hence the 'left out of spawn' rule for this map. That way, irrespective of where e.g. Sadako spawns, he would usually prefer the CT short A position (and he does very well at it!).
As money grows then it is sensible to start adjusting positions accordingly. For example, amongst Zombies it is usual to have a call of AWM and we normally adjust to that. If I spawn with an AWM I usually swap to go into the middle on de_dust2 as I can snipe T spawn, short A, under the tunnel towards long A and into B through the doors. So you are right in that we should and do adjust to weapon choice. But if you are long A with a deagle, just keep your head back and take occassional 'fraction of a second looks' in different places so that you can make the call as to when and how many are coming up long A.
Gun donation is something that as a clan we generally need to get better at. Under the old Zombie/Ghost syste,, the Zombies (because there were only 8 of them) got used to playing with each other more and more - this led to regular AWM, M4, Scout etc donation at spawn. BUT, when you do this you have to announce it before respawn or at the very latest at the point of respawn, because anyone with a buyscript will have already pressed the button if you leave it too late. At the end of rounds we need to be on the look out for guns that will be useful to other members or ourselves and start picking them up. I have lost count of the number of times I have seen someone with e.g. an MP5 walk over/past an aug/sig/ak etc and NOT pick it up! Gaaagh!
The more we prqctice these little points, the better we will get at them.
TL. 8)
Quote But if you are long A with a deagle, just keep your head back and take occassional 'fraction of a second looks' in different places so that you can make the call as to when and how many are coming up long A.
If you are assigned to long A and you know that you aren't a crack shot at long distances stay back and keep your head in. Remember that once the Ts have started to move in to the bottle neck area they are very vunerable for attacks. A flash short and one "long" in the bottle neck is very effective. Mix that with some HE and smoke and you will have a barbeque. The thing to remebers is to let the Ts advance into the bottle neck.
If we know that they are in the bottle neck CTs from middle or mincer could go back way to long A and the Ts will be in trouble.
Quote
... when you do this you have to announce it before respawn or at the very latest at the point of respawn, because anyone with a buyscript will have already pressed the button if you leave it too late. At the end of rounds we need to be on the look out for guns that will be useful to other members or ourselves and start picking them up.
TL. 8)
Remember that your team can hear your voice comm even if they are dead. Announce that the awp/colt etc will be dropped at spawn at the end of the round. Same should go for survivors that knows that they will upgrade the following round. If you died last round and have not enough money to buy e.g. a colt save the money by picking up someones dropped MP5.
Quote
you can cover short A with an mp5 ok, but if you find your self covering long A, just call the enemy position in and wait till they are in range
Actually I would say that if you can afford a P90 buy that instead of a MP5+HE. At short A you will have more use of a 50 clip than a 30 clip. Spray and pray works in close quarters. ;)
Looking at mondays match we have a game on NUKE!!!!! A pre-match warmup has been posted..... so pop over to availability and fill in the gaps :lol: :wink:
it may be of use as we dont play this one so often
Yeah, I figured that a praccie was going to be required on this one as we hardly ever play it!
One point of note: I have moved the praccie tonight (SUNDAY) as I had accidentally double booked it with the EARLY Monday night match we have.
Head over to availability peeps!
TL. 8)
in the gaps between real life and MH i play with bots ...if any of you gents see me playing on a player search the
password is "dmw" feel free to pop in for a few easy kills
i find it usefull to try out new stuff and do all the things i should not do in pcs :wink:
my connection can hold about 4 players .....without too much lagg..its good practice
nice one seed , see ya there, i think sqounk has a server as well
its up now and again same pw as jas "dmw"
We got lots of people available for the Sunday 25th match.....so.......i put a pre match practice down on the availability....Lest see if we get enough people for some in house frag action :onfire: