Disclaimer:
The following post is made by me only, and cant be held against other officers. It might be harsh, or slightly offensive, if so, my excuses, but this is how i feel, also, sorry for the long read :tongue:
Right so here goes.
As most of you know, i like to raid, i have a near perfect attendance record ever since i joined SOG (missing 2 raids due to BD's), beeing highest earned dkp in guild atm. Now thats one of the reasons that i became an officer, to help organize raids, in anyway i could.
After tonights canceld raid i had a bit of a fall out against other officers, i didnt like what they said, but after having thought about it, they where right. If RG1 cant bring themselfs to turn up with at least 35, then why bother raiding at all? :eyebrow:
I mean, there is more then enough for 40 to show up, heck there should be a fairly long queue w/ just RG1 members. Now i know your not dieing to do MC anymore, but there are still ppl that need thier tier 2 pants to get a chance to complete thier sets (id quess 2-4 in each class). And you are guardian, you want to raid, that should include raids you dont fancy.
I dont paticulary like MC myselfs, cept when on my warrior, nice to do something else for a chance. But i am officer/guardian, i have commited myselfs to raid. So i will help, for the greater good of the group, for other ppl to have a shot at loot, and heck ill admit, for myselfs to get a shot at alts in MC.
Now, officers (me included) do a lot for the guild (pots, mats, dkp, raidleading, and recruitment) so you only have to turn up. However even then, i cant honestly remember the last time we had a full group w/ just RG1 members :eyebrow: was that long ago.
Now RG2 is talking about starting in BWL, and i aplaud them for thier progress, but that will mean we cannot use any defenders to take up spots in our raid when we raid BWL. When they do start (i quess with a week or two) we cannot do BWL anymore. :thumbsdown:
So take this as your wake up call, everything is set for a good run, all we need if YOUR help to actualy make it happen.
Bastet
Ps, To RG2 members reading this post, and i do mean this, if you keep this current level of commitment and focus up (and improve on it), youll be a far suppirior raid group compared to RG1. And i could be tempted to join you if i could :blink:
hard but true words m8.. ime also very dissapointed on the current situation.
regarding mc.. why not show up..? its not like were gonna have a lot of wipes.. youlle make profit from mc..(unless youre an aggro crazy player)
were also doing good progress in bwl and last sunday we did it on 1 night regardless of the wipes and stupid pulls..
if youre a guardian and dont want to raid mc/bwl then why be a guardian at all..?
Well if the current attendance, or better lack of keeps up, i am thinking that before the summer is over, there will only be 1 raid group in sog again, and it wont be RG1. My moneys on RG2.
/agreed.
Shame on ppl who didnt showed up for MC or AQ wipes and showing for BWL looting runs :angry: .
About all that issues of that ppl i would say:
Who want - have 1000 ables, who dont want - have 1000 issues...
I hope everybody will get it, sorry for my bad english.
And i will be happy to help RG1 get down more bosses, but i have vacation for 3 weeks, so i will be unable to do it :/ but after 13/08 i will be online i promise :) every raid and i will try keep my 100% attendance in future :)
The time has come for some punishments I think. RG1 members are skimming from the success of the group - picking and choosing their attendance venues to suit themselves and not the RG.
I propose a harsh DKP penalty for unexplained absences.
Its the only way to start forcing people to attend regularly.
im always of the opinion that its better to reward those who do put effort in, rather than punish those who dont.
gib more dkp for MC!
Mene, the dkp is fine. Increasing dkp rewards leads to inflation - dkp becomes worthless (think Germany post WWI).
Its the ld carrot and the stick - we have a lovely juicy carrot, loot and dkp, but no stick.
Bring back the stick, and the donkey will start moving again.
the stick in this case would be that the people who dont attend mc then would find it much harder to get loot if theyre getting half as much dkp per week as everyone else, but i see your point :D
the people dont attend because they have no real "carrot" in MC - there is no loot they want, and the dkp is small compared to what you get for a BWL clearance, and theres loot for them in bwl too.
besides... id love to carry wheelbarrows full of dkp to pay for my loot ;D bigger is better, right?
Maybe the requirements should be changed to make you agree to raid all our current instaces even though you don't want any items from one. The basis being that you are helping the guild not just yourself.
Quote from: Menedilthe stick in this case would be that the people who dont attend mc then would find it much harder to get loot if theyre getting half as much dkp per week as everyone else, but i see your point :D
the people dont attend because they have no real "carrot" in MC - there is no loot they want, and the dkp is small compared to what you get for a BWL clearance, and theres loot for them in bwl too.
besides... id love to carry wheelbarrows full of dkp to pay for my loot ;D bigger is better, right?
Workers in Germany carried their daily wages home in wheelbarrows Mene :P Their wifes used the paper money to light the fires in the kitchen because the value of it was so worthless: hyperinflation is a big problem :P
Stront's point is correct: it should be made clear it is an RG1 member's responsibility to raid whereever our officer's lead us. Refusal to comply should carry some form of sanction...
stront, the current requirement is 5/6 raids every 2 weeks, so you can skip 1 every 2 weeks for whatever reason, clearly this isnt being followed with regards to mc... :/
luci, tahts where i got the wheelbarrow metaphor from :P
if people are punished, then it should be made 150% certain that they actually do deserve to be punished.
Quote from: Menedilif people are punished, then it should be made 150% certain that they actually do deserve to be punished.
We have two threads for explaining absence. How many explanation were given for tonight?
Maybe 3 or 4?
So those people are not sanctioned.
All others would be, unless a valid emergency was happening (like Valdeko's tonight).
Obviously emergencies happen, my granda died during a raid for example, but that only happens once.
Sanctions work: you hit people in the pocket, and they respond.
On a worrying note, once hyperinflation took place, it set Germany on the page to the rise of Nazism. Hopefully that won't happen with SoG ;)
what i meant was slapping a punishment on someone before theyve been at least questioned by an officer and given a chance to make excuses isnt the nicest thing in the world, speaking as a person who's received that treatment.
so :o... i'd like to be rudolf hess
Why didn't RG1 made us of the soldiers that were online? Weren't they ment to fill up the gaps? That is the reason why we let new people into the guild right? So with 13 soldiers in RG1 you at least can go to MC and the they would love it to....
just my two copper..
Cause for all the creative solutions we put into making the guild able to raid, ppl still dont show up. And we dont want to have ppl spend a full nite in MC w/ unexperianced ppl, and possibly a lot of whipes. Where we should be able to do it in 2 hours w/ a full RG1 group.
Also why should we "reward" RG1 w/ a raid, when clearly they dont care enough to show up. Maybe we should clear MC on sunday, and do BWL on tuesday. Like before, that you dont know where we are going untill you are in the raid.
Quote from: BastetMaybe we should clear MC on sunday, and do BWL on tuesday. Like before, that you dont know where we are going untill you are in the raid.
If i remember rightly the mystery raids worked quite well before I would be more than happy to do that again.
:thumb: for mystery raids. As stated in this thread already...if you are guardian you are obliged to raid no matter the instance.
absence thread is here to tell when u can't raid, it's ubealivable that ppl don't bother to tell when they won't come an emergency can happen but as lucian said the loss of a parend or something like that is a thing which won't happen that much tho, mystery raids worked quite well when we used since we downed razorgore.
Another solution could be that if some1 don't show up for the 5/6 raid sposed for RG1 members they won't be able to have loots for the following 2 weeks but this won't help attendeance tho
Maybe planning ahead for attendance levels would help. ie sign up as per 20 man dungeons. At least you can see instantly how many people are expecting to be there and compensate accordingly.
except that ppl are very good at forgetting to turn up anyway, just ask any of the commanders. and other then that, its fairly hard for some ppl to know well ahead of time when they can attend. Also there is the problem with ppl that cant be online at time sign ups open.
But i am willing to give it a go
Here's my 50 cent
Death & Mayhem & Bulletholes like the real 50CENT :devil:
agree Padd we could do this in every single MC if we have enought ppl but here again our problem...
We probably well need the same 3hours 30min for 1 BWL boss as we need for a full MC clearance :yell: :yell: :yell:
That's my warface :yell:
I'm ready to rumble
I agree with what u are saying bastet. Now i have missed to raids the last week due to some RL stuff. Somthing i did not want to do.
On sunday i got home to late cause of a race weekend. And yesterday i was at my grandparents 230km away. And my parents did not want to leave untill 1800. :(
But to my suprise the raid was cancelled due to low attendance. Wich is sad to hear.
On sundays full BWL raid we will probably have an overflow of RG1 ppl. Or maybe not. But RG2 ppl can't join to "save" the raid since they are starting BWL them self on monday.
JT
First the official stuff, this is my opinion and mine alone, this is not related with the other officers.
I agree with you bastet.
I understand you feel and i feel the same. If Rg 1 members dont show up, we just as well disband RG1. The officers are trying to solve this with more guardians and see ppl get angry cause of competition. Then the last MC run we have 27!!!!!!!. Tell me did we recruit enough?. But this is not about recruiting, however it is about the feeling the dedicated raiders have. Myself i havent missed much raids since i joined. And joined most of the the zg/aq raids. But this is going on for months and you also can see this in the 20 man raids ( on a monday we needed to call a lot of times cause RG 2 was in MC).
As for a solution, you first need the question which in my case would be.
how to motivate ppl for joining all the raids and not the BWL ones?
a part could be measures against ppl who only show up for specific raids and give then a dkp penalty or no dkp and no loot for a x amount of days.
Do this more then a few times and a demote. Just an idea and not rly helping for motivation but like lucian said you need a carrot and a stick this beeing the stick.
As a carrot we have dkp and loot earned with it. not to mention the feeling you get after finally downing a boss after a lot of practice ( first ragnaros and nefarius kill) (personal also ossirian for me). Also seeing new instances (RG1 for aq40 and RG2 for BWL soon).
BUT for progress we all need our gear and not say cya i wont help anymore for this instance (hell that even does not happen, they just arent there) cause i got all i want. For example next BWL run i get the gear i want and would say cya for naxx. Now first the raid is setted back cause a good geared player leaves also progressing solo in naxx is not the fastest thing:narnar: .
I hope it made some sense if not blame the weather.
Lunares
Quote from: BastetSo take this as your wake up call, everything is set for a good run, all we need if YOUR help to actualy make it happen.
This is imo a
very serious situation, and we all need to pull together and in the same direction to make things work out!
I'm not gonna start a big and long lecture about all this, but I will state briefly a few of my oppinions:
- I see no reason why we shouldn't have invited soldiers on Thursday to fill the empty spots in RG1 - that's what they are there for.
We have many good soldiers (both with gear and skills) in the guild, some even former RG members. Even with 10-15 soldiers in the raid, we woldn't have much problem clearing MC - it would just require a bit more focus and take a bit longer. I don't mind that.
- If people don't meet the required attendance without telling in advance in any of the absence threads, actions should be taken (as usual; emergencies not accounted for). First a warning, and than some kind of punishment: this could be loss of DKP for minor cases, or loss of rank if it's really serious or happens over a longer period of time.
- Yes to "Mystery Raid Day"
Now since the officers have stopped joining RG2 for their runs, I see no reason why we shouldn't rotate on where we go the various raid days. People should have no need to know where we're going, cause the reason for going is "helping out the guild", and not "what loot can I get today" - and for the first one you don't need to know where we go.
That's it for now. I might come back with more if I suddenly see that I've forgotten something :smile:
I am surprised at how early our raids start....6.15pm UK time....the majority of people in the UK are either just home from work at this time or getting their dinner...especially on a Sunday it is prime dinner time here....and a lot of people visit relatives etc on sundays during the summer period even more so than usual....
i think putting it back 1 hour to 2015 gametime(1915 BST) could possibly help attendance as it would give people a chance to get home have their dinner and then get to wherever the raid is....or is this too late for majority of CET time zone based players???
woody
If we push it to 20.15 server time, us CET people would have a problem. We would first be done at 01.00 and when you have work in the morning, that is very late.
Not so much of a problem for RG1 Maz as we would be finished around 2245 servertime.
Quotei think putting it back 1 hour to 2015 gametime(1915 BST) could possibly help attendance as it would give people a chance to get home have their dinner and then get to wherever the raid is....or is this too late for majority of CET time zone based players???
This has been discussed over and over previously, and no matter how we look at it, around 19-servertime is the best possible time
Yes its early for UK-people but the game is not following UK time, its following france, germany etc. and looking at the majority of the people in the guild, we have most who are playing at the same time as server time.
We cant really postpone the raids, since we need that extra hour when it gets late. Unless something drastic changes, we are going to have to stick with the times we have now
Actually we start 2 hours later then most other guilds. And starting one hour later would mean that if we have don't have a full raid, we might not be able to clear in one evening as we might be slower and we have one hour less time to raid. At this point, a full RG1 raidgroup should be able to clear both MC and BWL in one night going at full speed in both. The raid times have been discussed over and over, and even though the majority wanted to start earlier, we keept it at the current time to suit you guys over there on your little island :tongue: