First off , this is Toffe speaking. His account on theese forums is borked, and im just using neff's account.
What im angry at, actually ****ed off by, is the way the guild has , i dont know, become. I joined a week after neff, and i've been here from the start. I Started on Sokk, a rogue i quickly got tired off, started again, cant remember when, on my warrior , Toffe. I just recently hit 60, as maybe some of you may have recognised. I thought, this is when i get attuned to Mc/bwl/ony.
I am attuned to Ony/BWl, bwl part was alot of help from Siff. who ported me into the instance after they've killed Drakkisath.
The thing is, i dont get _any_ help, nor can people who i've "known" in the guild for a long time, cant even be arsed to say hello to me. It would be fine , if it only happened during an raid or something, but i never get any greetings, pity thing for you, lack of respect for me,i mean, i've been in the guild longer than 70% of "you". I've tried to be helpfull, when people ask me, i always show up, i never say no.
And when 20 people are standing in if, not doing anything, you could help a fella out in an UBRS f.ex! It would've been okay, if you atleats said you couldn't, but none of you were flagged afk.
All in All, i dont like how this guild has become, I wondered how it happened , the reason i joined this guild where because of my IRL mates were here,
people always helped out needing guildies,Lots of talk, etc you all know how it was, but suddenly its all gone, and sorry to say, I feel ****ed on, ive talked to a few others and they feel the same.(not going to say any names)But Im Tired of it, so Im saying it how im experiencing it... I know you're busy with raiding and all, but that brings me back to the 20ppl not afk just standing in IF.
I was just about to /gquit, but neff told me of the unwritten rule, dont quit before you've talked about it. This isnt the sog i joined for , isnt it a year soon?
I think its a symptom of a wider problem: complacency within the guild. It affecting RG1 especially.
To be honest mate, I don't know you - you might have been there since I was in the guild, but I don't remember playing with you or chatting to you. The guild has become a big place, and with that people have accumulated circles of friends.
Maybe you've been passed by (Toff = 58 or something?) and if so then work hard and you'll soon be part of it again.
In the mean time, I have done my share of helping - more jailbreaks than I can count jump into my head, and if I prefer to play quietly with Tindra or Applecore or something, please don't hold it against me!
EDIT: I also meant to add, but as usual forgot, to mention that I have haad the same problems recently. I want to go to UBRS for Bobby's LF set, but have rarely managed more than two or three guildies. Keep trying :) You will get there eventually - and if you want more UBRS, then let me know.
QuoteMaybe you've been passed by (Toff = 58 or something?) and if so then work hard and you'll soon be part of it again.
It is toff, he changed his name a bit :)
Edit, but its not only instance helping, just that people dont say hello to eachother anymore, happened to me some times too. (just an example
Hmm really sry to hear, that ppl feel that way.
I must say, I offen stand in IF doing nothing and no I dont have afk tag as I normaly is in BG queue and if invite comes up while in AFK mode you will be skipped.
What goes for me. I am raiding like 6-7 nights a week and do not have much more time for the other instances anymore sry.
Good to hear responses, keep 'em coming!
And its just not the instances, its everything in the post, and he is very annoyed.
Im sorry that you do feel that way i try to be kind to all players and help them out expecially those in my guilds.
And i must admit i do often sit in IF, wihle i read the forums.
But if someone needs a hand doing something and i can spare the time i have no problem helping out.
As now we have 2 raid groups raiding on 4 days a week a lot of players are busy just raiding and therfor may not always want to do 5 man runs. If you need a run and no one on the day can help, then make a post on the forum to see if anyone can help you say later that day?
Quote from: NeffAll in All, i dont like how this guild has become, I wondered how it happened , the reason i joined this guild where because of my IRL mates were here,
people always helped out needing guildies,Lots of talk, etc you all know how it was, but suddenly its all gone, and sorry to say, I feel ****ed on, ive talked to a few others and they feel the same.(not going to say any names)But Im Tired of it, so Im saying it how im experiencing it... I know you're busy with raiding and all, but that brings me back to the 20ppl not afk just standing in IF.
Basicly I'd just like to say that the guild has always been the way it is. There have perhaps been a few minor changes but not much. Getting help in SoG has always been a problem except in the earlier days when helping out was helping with 1 quest for example. People just seem to not have time anymore or can't be bothered to do it. I myself haven't been very helpfull but you have to understand how many people some have helped throughout the game(Even though I shouldn't be using that as an excuse).
As far as I know, the guild chat has just increased, both in good, bad and also some very freaky ways. :tongue:
Getting hello's when you log on is something that I have never noticed anyone getting except while half the people online are raiding and even then you get a few.
And lastly I'd just like to say that please don't pull the "I've been here longer then you" card, because it shouldn't really matter. I've been here longer then Teaelle for example but he's still done much more in the guild then me probably.
Hope it all works out for you but if not I'll still be seeing you IRL. :biggrin:
I have to agree with Kreuz (ZOMG) the guild is pretty much what it always has been. Its not that people are not helping but you cant expect to log on and say who wants to help me in UBRS, because most people have a goal in the game and something they are playing to do, and standing around in IF does certainly not mean they are free to help. Personally i've always thought it a part of the game, that i should do PUGS to get the stuff i want. You cant rely on guildies being there for you all the time, and doing a lot of PUGS is part of the gameplay, and what you need to do to get the stuff you want.
Like deadly also says, lots of the people here are already raiding 6-7 nights in a row and personally i dont have the mentally surplus to spend 2-3 hours in UBRS if i dont have a specific purpose there. That doesnt mean that i wouldnt help people who asked, but saying that noone is helpful is not correct. I know for a fact that i helped a lot of people getting Onyxia attuned, and lots of other people helped doing lots of Baron 45 minutes run, but to ask people if they want to help in UBRS and not getting help, exceeds your expectations to what people are willing to do.
And btw, i seem to remember that you had problems with a person from another guild ninja'ing some items from you and you couldnt get it back?
Vargen, me and some other people have worked our ass of to get that person to pay the stuff back to you, and allthough you might not have gotten it all, we actually made him give things back to you, and you might just get it all in the long run.
Is that the thanks then that you make a post saying the whole guild is not helpful, now that i would call lack of gratitude.
I think you should reconsider what you are trying to say with this post Toff, and see if you final conclusion isnt somewhat different
Off Topic:
Toffe, first off, what's wrong with the forum account - we need to get it running again.
Have you tried the recover password facility? What was the outcome. Info plz and we'll get it fixed.
Back on topic:
I am levelling my Priest at the moment and geenrally I find help available from other Guidlies either on their mains or their alts. What I do recognise is that if you are trying to form a Guild UBRS run etc on a raid night (say liek last night) then the bulk of our members are going to be in a 40 man raid and therefore nun available to help. We run raids every single night of the week, so this might be a problem to you at the time you log on. If however you log on at a non-raid time then far more help is available. Yesterday I did a Guild run and 2 partial Guild PUGs where I had the company of Guildies in the party too.
If you /gquit it solves nothing. Yes raiders know each other better than non-raiders, but you're L60 - go sign up for some ZG and AQ raids and get to know people. Use TS - talk to them - it's a damn sight easier to group up within the Guild if you use the Teamspeak facilities that are there - it also makes fo rmuch better parties!
Finally, if you do /gquit and find a new Guidl then you will find exactly the same problems exist elsewhere. It's not that people are deliberately excluding you but that they do have their own agenda or goals. They might be about to go out (hence not wanting to take on a 90min UBRS run) or they might be grinding rep for get a rep-bvased recipe or needed item, etc. There are many reasons and these reasons are common across all Guilds and all players, not just SoG.
My 2 cents: join TS, join AQ/ZG and then I think by association you will find it much easier to group. I have always found people willing to help, you just have to ask them personally at the right time for them - so whisper people direct if you can, it's so much more personal and friendly.
TL.
I am also guilty of sitting in IF after joining a BG and then tabbing to watch a movie or tv show. There is nothing more boring that waiting an hour for a BG to proc. That said if im at the keyboard and someone asks me to help, and I have the time, I will do my best.
True stront, the araj's multi runs we did were awesome.
basically just being online does not mean you will be there for long, or paying attention or indeed have the attention span or motivation to do an instance run.
Quite often I go online jsut to say hello and see what's happening, check mail etc, being online for 5-10 or even 30 mins does not mean you can do an hour and a half instance run, also, sometimes I'm in IF after a raid, and REALLY not up for another one.
Sometimes someone can say in gchat 'hey who's up for helping me in some quest' and you'll get loads of replies, sometimes you don't. But you can't hassle people about it, they aren't NPC's who wait around with the sole purpose of helping people out. Real people have real lives and sometimes can't commit to a certain amount of time or concentration.
I know alot of other guilds are worse for the inter-guild help etc, ours isn't as bad as you think.
Something I get wary of with helping out, is the quest chains, as a full time working person, I value my spare time and weekends etc, and though I don;t mind helping out sometimes (it really does hinge on mood) it can get annoying in the followign two cases:
a) 'can lvl 60s run me thru instance x' where some relatively low level person wants an easy ride but won;t get the experience necessary for raiding.
b) 'oh can you help me on the next part too' where I lose my entire evening doing an instance that is dull, in order to run someone through a whole quest chain.
With repsect to chatting, there's ALWAYS chatting going on in guild, usually telling me i'm old :P, but if you want to be talked to alot, you need to get involved, you can't just turn up, say hi, and then expect everyone to shower you with adulation and such. After i took a couple of months off last year and came back hardly anyone talked to me cos noone knew me, but with effort I regained the loudmouthed crude wench status.
And yes, I agree with Kreuz too, being in the guild for ages doesn't and shouldnt mean much, I've been in since waaaaay back in the mists of time, but I certainly haven't contributed as much as some relatively new people, I'm sorry to say, I haven't seen you around all that much, make yourself higher profile and people will chat to you more :)
so:
1) Don't get annoyed if people aren't always available/willing to help, you don;t know what they ARE doing so assuming they are free is rude, plus, being annoyed will make it less liekly people want to help later, be patient, keep trying.
2) Gratitude, I see alot of gchat with 'need help/party for x' but hardly ever ever any 'thanks for that run, it was great, i'll help out in return'.
3) Talk alot and join in and have a laugh and eventually it will become normal, it takes time, people need to really get to know your online personality. 'hi everyone' isn't really much of a conversation starter and in this heat people lack enthusiasm.
4) Contribution is important, not time spent, I 'try' and make alot of people laugh as much as possible, and will almost always have an opinion on stuff. This isn't the same as raid leading, but definitely makes people feel comfortable with you and willing to chat to you or ask you about something
5) alot of the cameraderie these days is on TS, try and be on there as much as poss and you'll find things improve :)
Edit: Just read TL's post and I think he said the same stuff, reading all posts FTW:P
Umbra thats one epic post, TL is just rare :narnar:
Summery:
Ppl dont always have time to help, dont bust thier chops if they cant. And be sure to thank ppl when you do get help.
I think I spend about an hour between each BG in IF just occationally pressing the spacebar so I won't be flagged AFK, due to auto-join mod doesn't work properly anymore. If I get autojoined while AFK, I get kicked out of BG(thanks for that blizz btw:thumbsdown: ). So I am usually running some tv series or a movie on top of wow, just pressing the spacebar. Great huh?
As for the hello's and bb's, it would be a pain if all 300 members were to say hi to eachother when they get online. Not even I get a cheering fest every time I log on. Well maybe sometimes when Neff wants something.
Helping on quests and on instace runs is also not verry interesting for most, and you probably won't get an answer from anyone unless you ask them by whisper. I have lost count how many attunemets runs I've helped out on and as for the high end instances, I've done so many runs to get stuff, for three chars of my own now, and I have even given up trying to get the stuff for myself. If I can't be arsed to go to UBRS to get myself an item, you can imagine how noticable a general "UBRS anyone?" in gchat will be to me. I get a headache just thinking about that place :frusty:
However I hope you will stay with us Toff, it is allways a shame to loose a memeber and not to mention a veteran of the guild. As TL said, you are not well known by the raiders. Those that are the closest in the guild are the ones raiding and chatting every day on TS. If you aren't raiding, then imo, you really don't get to know the side of the guild I love the most. It's not so much the raiding or the items. It's about the people and the conversation. Having fun and accomplishing things together.
Quote from: UmbraTrue stront, the araj's multi runs we did were awesome.
It was such a laugh..just wish I could remember more..damn that vokda!
Yeah bastet, I tend to ramble about certain things, as I said, I always have an opinion. Stront, it was funny as hell when you came on next day and was like 'where did this money come from'? whne I gave you like 10g for repairs, after about 8 wipes on araj lol, nearly as funny as me, dajo, dalto, et. al. in DM.
So, Toff here Now, First of, Yesterday was a bad day, and i should really just delete the thread, But yes padding you've helped me, i didnt say None did but it seems people just stoped caring, and dont quote me on that it only sometimes appears like that even tho it may seem like that. And No I will not quit the Guild, and yes OFC i want to and will join RAids to AQ20/zg but i cant quite do that with only 4k hp unbuffed, Some few Blues that really are **** and most greens from lvl 40+ so yeah, im Gonna delete this thread soon, Neff Wrote the most, we express ourselfs a bit different so i should have Wrote it myself he only wrote it the way he thought i meant it.
And TL : Yes I've tried to get the info back to my account, and used the Same Email as I used when registrating and the one im using on daily basis. but it only stand that my "E-mail isnt Valid" ++
Edit: yeah, Tried to Join Ts, didnt work, prob my own bad, Full of nasty Viruses on my comp so, Format Ahoy and New and Improved Member Toff with Both Ts and signed up on raids, joined one of the Azuregos raids and was ****ing fun so:)
To reply on your gear Toff. If we have an ZG/aq run we normally get 2 members of each class in who signed up the first regardless of the gear. We only once asked for well geared ppl cause we wanted to kill ossirian (which worked). Besides aq we have zg, we have gotten pretty good at zg and we allways have alts with us. So why could you not join on your main? Just keep in mind we use the signup system and thats where we get ppl from.
lunares
I've been reading through this thread now, and I won't comment too much on the topic - I'm just saying that I pretty much agree with what TL, Umbra and Vargen wrote :smile:
In the end I'll also throw in a few tips:
If I want to do a UBRS run, I first ask in guild chat 2 or 3 times if somebody wanna come with me. If I get no replies at all and still have a great urge to go to UBRS, I start looking in the LFG channel (oh the horror :unsure:).
If somebody do reply, I start by inviting them, and so I ask in guild chat again - this time stating how many we are (and of what classes), and how many we want (and which classes are prefered). This I will do 2-3 times, and hopefully we get some more folks.
If we still miss some people, I start looking at what classes are really needed, and than I go to the guild list and find people of that class that are in IF or SW (or any other "idle" area) and whisper them if they want to join - one at a time. This is actually a very good way to do it I think, and many people really appreciate if you do this. One person actually replied me once that he couldn't go because he was logging, but he was very happy I had whispered him, cause as he said: that showed that I cared and payed attention to him. That actually made me very glad :smile:
If we now miss people, I ask the others in the party (and also including myself), to start looking through their friends list and ask anybody fitting there if they want to join - that might get us a few more.
And if we still miss people at this point: I discuss with the rest of the party if we should just disband, try to go as we are (if we're not missing too many people), or start looking for PuGs (oh the horror :unsure:).
And for the thing about folks not always saying hello in guild chat:
When I log on, I say "hi all :)" or somthing like that when I'm ready to start talking with folks (I hate it when folks start hello'ing me as soon as they see Threbrilith has logged on - cause it might very well be that I just logged on to check some mail for 2 seconds, and don't wanna get involved in the guild chat or something else - but back on topic :tongue:).
If nobody answers my "hi all", I after a short while go something like:
"Nobody wanna say hello to me?"
"Feeling a bit sad :("
"*starting*to*cry*"
And by the third line I usually have folks spamming "Lo Bob", "What's up Bub", "Hey Threb" and so on :happy:
Works ALL the time:flirty:
Hope some of my immense wisdom helped you out a bit :smile:
Bob's stuff is actually about right, keep cahtting and sounding pathetic, peopel will talk to you, whisper people individually and it shows you want THEM to do an instance and not just after anyone.
Of course, raids are easier if everyone has great gear, but if everyone did have great gear why would they need to go :P, I took my priest alt in recently, all blues except for hide of the wild, and now i have 4 or 5 epics, very happy, all it means is that you may die a few more times or need to use some pots or shout on TS more, but it's fun, get IN there.
TS: yes, fix comp and get on, often when gchat or raid chat is quiet it's cos there's some huge joke on TS and ppl can't type cos theyre pi$$ing themselves laughing,
P.S. don't remove the thread, alot of people in the past have felt this way and have just ranted in gchat and then quit, maybe replace it in a sticky with a thread called 'how to make friends and influence people' listing the main points we've all made, to try and avoid the miscommunication/unhappiness :D
P.P.S. We all love you Toff, can you feel it? can you? *mmmm, pink*
Well Toff, I have simular problems like you sometimes.
Can't get in raids and stuff, usualy don't get help from members (even on non-raid evenings). And yesterday (20-7-06) I was quite a bit ****ed too (has also a bit to do with the heat these days...temps not below 25ºC for a few days). Waited 1.5 - 2 hours to hear raids where full, few mins later Might got DE'ed (again...).
But, when I look back at the day before (19-7-06) I had a hell of a lot of fun in Stratholme with 2 other guildies and 2 pugs. I still like to do UBRS and Strat Baron with my warrior, so I'd be happy if I could get into those raids when it is not possible to get into MC or something.
And about your UBRS thing, as far as I can remember, you happen to ask at times I can't join or join anymore because of a time issue (if it's 20:00 I can't join anymore usualy, or before 16:00 during the week).
And about not greeting you or other certain members, well, I use gryphons a lot, boring flights so I go check forums and stuff and by the time I get back in the game the messages are like 5 mins old.
I guess you (not you, but you in a general way) have these problems in every guild. Some people are arses, sometimes things go like **** and you get ****ed of.
When things go bad I usualy log to an other char (other faction, or realm) to blow off some steam, and the next day I'll be teasing dorfs again on their sheeps:happy:
And who knows...I might get in a raid next time and win some stuff for once.
Quote from: UmbraP.P.S. We all love you Toff, can you feel it? can you? *mmmm, pink*
Share the love Umbra :huggy:
Did somebody just say ha-ha-hamburgers :rumpy:
Quote from: UmbraBob's stuff is actually about right
I love it when people tell me that, thank you :flirty:
Toff again :
So Yeah! I wont Comment anymore i think, Now the Good Ol' Guild is back like I know it, everybody caring and stuff, Formating my Pc during next week and Getting In Ts etc, yeah! about that thing, one more reason, i have this fugded up comp atm so almost _everytime_ i Alt+tab to msn or something wow crashes, and i Always forget it and get really ****ed of because of my Vague Mind and my ****ing comp so, yeah! Ty all for sharing and caring.
Umbra My eyes are pink, My Beerd's Green:)
I see someone has been stealing his brother's forum account!
QuoteVargen, me and some other people have worked our ass of to get that person to pay the stuff back to you, and allthough you might not have gotten it all, we actually made him give things back to you, and you might just get it all in the long run.
Well, i think Toff got f'king ****ed off, because he got like, 9 bars back? Heh, i used my own money to get thoose matts, and he contributed too. And Jamez just post-poned it until he could change servers, atleats thats my theory.
Of course vargen, when's the last time i asked for something? I'd like to believe your just messing around but sometimes you get
really bitchy.That time of the month?(No, not trying to start a flame war, your a good guy, but sometimes your jokes about me aint quite that amusing.
I lol'd a little.
all i can say toff m8 is that u cant force anyone in this game to do anything they dont want to do...we all pay our own hard earned cash to paly this game and therefore are entitled to do whatever the hell we like when online(within guild rules obviously:norty: ).....i have two characters and am trying to get CC rep with woody and rank 11 on bingbangbush, i struggle to have enough time for these
might sound harsh but its just plain fact and i doubt u would find it any different in a BWL/AQ40 raiding guild
Totally missed his point Woody, it isnt an forcing, its just a request, and if you bothered to read all the pages, you'd see that he says that he regrets alot , and was in a shitty mood.
Quote from: NeffOf course vargen, when's the last time i asked for something? I'd like to believe your just messing around but sometimes you get really bitchy.That time of the month?(No, not trying to start a flame war, your a good guy, but sometimes your jokes about me aint quite that amusing.
Hey, women get to be bitchy once a month, so why cant I be the rest of the month :narnar:
And just to point out, the GM's jokes are allways funny. Though they mostly come at your expence Neff :norty:
However, for anyone thinking I'm going too hard on him.
When I'm happy, I'm rude (humorusly) - When I'm annoyed, I'm sarcastic - When I'm ****ed I'm yelling and cursing - Next stage complete silence
Pretty much :tongue:
Im sad that you feel that you dont get help.
But helping ppl isnt fun. Especially if you have to do all the work for them, even carry them along trough the instance. it isnt like you are the only one on the server or in the guild that cant do this. Demanding ppl to help you doesnt work and you wrote that you have been in the guild for so long, then you of all should know that your case of needing help for attunements isnt the first or even rare in our guild or even amongst other guilds.
argh, I wrote too much crap. Thing is, dont beg for help. Try accomplishing this by taking the lead for yourself. Instead of asking 9 others to help you, try identifying the 9 others that need the same quest or needing to venture in the same instance as you so you can accomplish your and their quests.
So what I need you to try is to not look up to the stronger players in the guild hoping they can be your easy way out. You need to find players on your level (not nesessarily character lvl) or ppl under your level - then what? Then you armor up in confidence and say to them that you wil help THEM getting into UBRS. You get awesome results by inspiring ppl coming along to get a good time and getting quests done. Appeal to the adventurous side of the players that roam IF, there must be many hundreds players in IF that need the same things as you.
Q.Why appeal to the adventrous side of PUG players instead of the SoG lvl 60 epic *******s helping you out in 10 minutes?
A. Because most of them are lazy asses playing games all day instead of working...is true, I would too, if I had a good connection :P
And think of it, raiding with these guys arent fun! they are mean epic killing robots! They did the stuff you want to do so many times that doing it one more time might make some of them question why the øøøø they play this game.
Why did I spent these minutes writing an answer that provides nothing of a solution and only confusing you, TOFF??
Because you have to do it the PUG way! And if you cant be arsed, then get drunk on a schoolday and kick the **** out of your so called friends and burn their parents` cars, make them help you. You all live on a small pathetic isle outside of Ã...lesund, so....work it out by milking their cows or neutering their pigs or sleeping with their sisters. I DARE YOU!
get the attunements with PUGS and I`ll help you when I get the net.connection. see ya.
LOL Adu you been drinking again m8???
QuoteHey, women get to be bitchy once a month, so why cant I be the rest of the month :narnar:
And just to point out, the GM's jokes are allways funny. Though they mostly come at your expence Neff :naughty:
However, for anyone thinking I'm going too hard on him.
When I'm happy, I'm rude (humorusly) - When I'm annoyed, I'm sarcastic - When I'm ****ed I'm yelling and cursing - Next stage complete silence
Pretty much :tongue:
Scary, JUST like my mom. (Who will be the one that comes with YEAH I SURE KNOW HER!!)
I dont know your mum, I just _feel_ her
Well, my mom cooks kickass food.
Drunk again btw`?