About the attendence & raid full/ rolling for spot thing.
it happened last night, there was many people who came to join RG2 for BWL, some classes had to roll for staying in raid !
good:
1) quick solution
2) well that's about all good it is
bad:
1) people get ignored regardless how high attendence they have, due to rolling for slot in raid.
(I was whispered: " I thought only prople with T1 gear could enter BWL")
2) not fair when people program their hours to attending to raid, have to leave due to "Raid's full" or never get invited due to "Raid's full")
Some ideas:
-Maybe if there was a sign up site like the one like AQ20/ZG sign up, then people can know if they are approved some hours before the raid and change plan?
-Approved people get an In-game mail that says: Approved to about 1 hour before raid. not approved ones get ones similar that says not approved< due to...<
- Attending people regardless of they get in raid or not deserve to get Attendence point in my opinion, they are putting effort and cutting their pretious time to help the raid
Regarding some issues that I did not like
*I use ??? and ???2 instead of the 2 player, they know and that's enough*
As I said I got whispers.. Last night was my first experience with RG2 so I might have taken someone else's place.
so first in OL I get whispered that:
???:Hey first time here?
me: yes first timers
???:ok because I saw you run to right instead of left
???: It ****es ???2 because he was here everytime
At entrance of BWL I get these whispers:
???2: Hey I thought only players with T1 set can enter raid to BWL?
me: plz don't whisper and talk to officers about it
???2: They don't listen, and always go for friends first.
at 23:30 we were waiting for ppl to get ready to do the last attempt on Razorgore:
???: starts with doing some annoying emotes to everyone around, then targets me, starting with *licks*, laugh and eventually *Farts*
these don't matter, because I took them as friendly joke and went of in raid chat like this:
???: hmm I only have Arcane Intellect as buff
me: ??? you don't need buffs you'll pwn BWL without group and buffs :)
???: Shadowscream go get some T1 set before talking in raid
Whispers:
me: are you challenging me hun?
???: with what?
me: or are you trying to provoke?
???: hehe I said I was talking ****
Well when I scroll up I see nothing that indicate he is joking, so I take stuff like :"Shadowscream go get some T1 set before talking in raid" serious as hell because it means, stfu you have no right to talk because you have low level gear, and that makes me superior to you because I have better gear?
no I don't think you are better than me or superior you are defender just like me and I'm sorry if I threat your position in future raids but this is the way things are, new people join every once in a while and they also must get oppurtunity to get in big high end instances
This whole thing made me so mad I didn't want to play Wow anymore, just loged out after raid called.
well pew I feel alot better now :)
Whats up with all this wisper harasment these days? if stuff like that too say, then have the balls to say it in raidchat...
I will agree with you Shadow @ the invite system Monday evening was some crap but done is done.
Why did it go like that; because we Marshal's never have expected to see so many people want to join for BWL because we never do that for MC(to MC we almost every time must use soldier to fill the raid).
We are atm dicussing what to do about the issues of to many people and have several models on the table for discussion but you people need to remember @ we can't find a model where we can prevent to many will show up but we will find a model where we will try to consider as many asspect as possible to benafit the raid and you will have to accept that.
About wisper harasment; we will like to have that reported to us Marshal's immediate and we will look in to it right away. I have done that before in the raids and will like to do it again, so please give me a wispher if you are harasment by other players in the raid.
We can't help that must if we not are given the knowledge about this is going on in the raid.
And for the people who is doing it; STOP IT we will not tolerate this :yell:
About you ideas: (and all this is my personal opinion)
I don't think it is necessary to have a sign up site because we normally don't see this problem and remember most of the Marshal's do have a job to take care of and some of us is coming home from work ½ hour before raid starts.
Ingame mail about 1 hour before raid: can't do again because the Marshal's are human's(at least some):whistle:
Since the attendance is a requirement in RG2 we can't use this to let people in the raid because we will not beable to confront the people with a low attendance if we only wants/allow them in raids 50% of the time.
ffs, not more of this bullcrap, shadow, talk to me ig, i think its time i got involved in this and cracked some skulls.
Quote from: Bastetffs, not more of this bullcrap, shadow, talk to me ig, i think its time i got involved in this and cracked some skulls.
Yeah, you go Bastet and
kick some ass :devil:
But seriously - WTF is wrong with people these days? I say, if you manage to get screenies as proof, boot 'em straight out of the guild! That might help out on two problems: we get rid of some big assholes, and there won't be so many fighting over the spots for then next raid!
QuoteBut seriously - WTF is wrong with people these days? I say, if you manage to get screenies as proof, boot 'em straight out of the guild! That might help out on two problems: we get rid of some big assholes, and there won't be so many fighting over the spots for then next raid!
/signed
My two copper on this is:
Let people stay based on TOTALE earned dkp (idea of Vanguish which I fully support)
or/and
Last joined the guild gets out first....
Also I don't know why all classes got an 7th member....as far as I know we had a Lock, Druid and Mage attandence problem.
Daedalus
There always where 7 defenders of each class, and let the officers come up with something would you. I know there hard at work
First, Shadow, rest asure Marshalls are working on this as we speak. So no worries. But at the same time, be aware that we cannot please everyone with the rules made.
We do our best so that all of you can have fun. We are only human's as GD put it... some of us gnomes :biggrin:
But remember we do the things we do, so that we can make it fun for all or at least the majority of people playing.
Regarding other issue, We will not tolerate this, and it's simply solved by pressing screenshot button, and PM an officer. The the issue will be handled.
Quote from: KnabbelMy two copper on this is:
Let people stay based on TOTALE earned dkp (idea of Vanguish which I fully support)
or/and
Last joined the guild gets out first....
Unfortunately I can see that idea falling down. What if someone has only just hit 60 (I am going to add the caveat that they have gear of a reasonable level to allow them to raid in BWL), or has only just joined the guild becuase they heard you were a big raiding guild and want to raid with you? If you're having far more attention than you need to fill the raid for BWL then this implies that they will never actually get to raid, because they won't have any DKP with you and will be the last to have joined the guild, and thus they'll never get to raid and will get annoyed and leave.
QuoteLet people stay based on TOTALE earned dkp (idea of Vanguish which I fully support)
or/and
Last joined the guild gets out first....
Also I don't know why all classes got an 7th member....as far as I know we had a Lock, Druid and Mage attandence problem.
Daedalus
Bad idea Daedlus because in that way you will never get new people in RG2, if they can't get a spot to BWL.
People with in low DKP will find another guild to raid in aswell if they can't have a spot in BWL.
So overall - bad way to do it.
Sazgul if you are a gnome, I must be the biggest Dwarf in the game.
Quote from: Carr0tIf you're having far more attention than you need to fill the raid for BWL then this implies that they will never actually get to raid, because they won't have any DKP with you and will be the last to have joined the guild, and thus they'll never get to raid and will get annoyed and leave.
Then you have to many defenders and you could demote him/her to soldier. If then there is an attandence problem a soldier can step in just accoording to guild rules.
And allowing more and more people into the guild creates the problem you just stated as the all applied for raiding but with only two raid groups this is unlikely to happen.
There has always been 7 people in every class in RG2.
7men x 8 class is 56 people - 16 more end needed but still we a low on people when we are raiding MC.
So we need 56 defenders in RG2 at least just to could raid weekly.
If the same 40 men show up every time you could cut the numbers of defender down, but this will never happen, just see RG1 who has set the numers up to 8 pr. class so they are able to raid without filling they raid up with defenders and soldiers.
It's a hard nut to crack this one, aye? - We should know...
Deadalus atm. we are the defenders we are, we wont be demoteing anyone just yet. This will only be done on the basis of bad attandence, and by them we will revise the number of defender for each class.
Thanks for the input. We appriciate new views to the problem.
One more thing... Noone know what will happen on next MC/BWL raid, maybe some got scared away from doing BWL, due to different things (big repair bill :biggrin: )
Rest asure, we have a plan comming up for next BWL, and you will be informed before raid. It was our first time there, and we all have to learn - I know us marshalls learned a lot. :biggrin:
agree Sazgul
:thumb: Like Sazgul says it's a hard one and it is not mend with bad intentions but this is what came up shortly after the first rolles dropped down on the screen and thought I might give it a share. :biggrin:
I also agree on GD that it will never happens that the same 40 peeps show up, but I see it from my point of view...... anybody not showing up because of repair bills or old loot isn't a valid reason by far....I simple cannot comprehend that people stay away because of the wipes or old loot.... so that's why I thought that way. My higherst repair bill ever was monday and I loved every bit of it.
I'm also aware that the officers are taking this into account. But to be honest I would be pretty bad tempered if a new guildy just joined got my place because of a bad roll..... But we will wait and see what future will bring as for me I try to attend as much as possible....
Thanks for looking into a suggestion!! :thumb:
I hope it won't happen again that we will have to disappoint people. Lets see what the attendance looks like after wiping a couple more times in BWL.
As for a system for deciding who should leave due to an abbundance of people of a certain class; I'd say stick to the rolling for now, but give the people that are forced to leave full DKP as compensation, since they were there and were ready to contribute to the raid (in this case it won't hurt as much if you can't come). Of course the officiers should first ask for volentiers. Some people might be willing to give up their spot if they get full DKP anyway.
If we keep getting attendance levels of 40+ on a regular basis, it will need to be adressed in a different way.
As for the wispering of 'insults', no matter if it was meant to be a joke or not (for most people English is not their native tongue and thus might interpret a joke the wrong way, keep that in mind), please stop that. I hope the officiers won't have to make an example out of someone. If you got something to say, do so in raid chat or talk to an officier about it, otherwise keep it to yourself.
QuoteDeadalus
My higherst repair bill ever was monday and I loved every bit of it.
I know the feeling, and I loved every bit of mine too.
And thanks again too all the people who contributes to the constructive discussion. And we know you mean well :biggrin:
Quotebut give the people that are forced to leave full DKP as compensation, since they were there and were ready to contribute to the raid (in this case it won't hurt as much if you can't come). Of course the officiers should first ask for volentiers. Some people might be willing to give up their spot if they get full DKP anyway.
I agree on this one. It would be reasonable to give peeps that cant join cause of a rolling system or what ever system the officer comes up with. This way we might even get volunteers who can step down for several reason. Result is that more peeps are/stay happy.
Yes we need 7 in each class so I vote for that. Just look at RG1 and their problems and we havent had this problem before at all.
As for bad language, insults and so on??? This is a game and we (hopefully) play to have a hell of a time:biggrin: . Let it stay that way for everyone plz
I can find myself in that solution to....giving peeps dkp although not raiding. As mentoined before that way some people my step up out of them selfs, the only problem left then is the attandence......
And remember it is RG2 patent pending.... :narnar:
Haven't much to say about the rolling for spots, other than hopefully it will be a one-time-call.. I understand that u would be annoyed for rolling low (I know I would), but hopefully it won't happen that way again.. give the marshalls a break.. :smile:
As for flaming / whatever other players: Now that ****es me off! :angry:
Especially since i seem to have seen a couple of posts lately on that subject.
Do whatever u can to bring screenies to the officers, and let them take action.
I believe that most of us don't want ppl in the guild doing that, and if certain ppl don't understand that: BEGONE!!
Maybe not a /gkick on the first offence, but a serious warning. It's up the officers.
We're all here to have fun playing WoW together, so lets behave a bit civilized (
LOL :lol:), even though it might not always go exactly the way YOU want..
I must say that I can't blame the officers for the rapid solution last monday. I know it isnt nice for all of you who aren't that good befriended with their dice (which mostly includes me aswell, another Priest rolled a 1 and thats hard to beat :tongue:). Ill hope to see what kind of system they devised and I trust them enough that it wont be just a quick solution. To be honest I rather keep the discussion till I know what were going to use for these situations and than comment on it.
And about ranting because you got let out for --once-- because of a --fair-- dice roll, can't say I'm too happy to hear this. The one who won cant help it that they stayed in. Dont hate the player, hate the game!
If you rant them, atleast got the balls to do it where everybody can see it and not so sneaky that you do it in whispers, these such actions ****es me off. :angry:
Sebas out...
:getmecoat:
First of all, Harrasment as described by Shadowscream here, will not be tolerated, and will get you a short trip to a lonely enviroment and resulting in blacklisting with SOG and all allied guilds.
Second; I see some of you complaining about too many Defenders. I guess you would prefer having 40 Defenders then, and an absolute required attendance of 100% or more? Come on, even the most hardcore raiding guilds have at least 50 members minimum. You need enough ppl to fill the spots. Sure not everyone can raid all the time, but in a few weeks this will all settle down. You are lucky to actually be able to fill the raids starting BWL, let a lone have a queue!
Third; What are you raiding for? Because many here seem to be raiding for DKP. Is that really what you want? It might be hard for some to see, but loot and items are just tools to progress. It is about the experience, the game play, the challange and most importantly the people and teamplay! As it is now, I see a lot of spoiled greedy brats. From my view it seems that RG2 is more then anything fighting eachother then anything else. Sinking as low as to threatening officers and raidleaders as well as fellow guildies like a spoiled child.
Get your acts together!
This is a game and Silver Oak Guardians is about the people and enjoying the game. Try to remember that...
Well.. Vargen just said what i'm feeling.. so:
/signed
(yeh yeh, im a bit drunk, and prob can't express myself that that good in writing english :blink: )
well said vargen :clap: i totaly agree.
Guys.
This is just a game after all. We play to have fun. Although I'm one of those who don't chat much, the only reason I still play this game after all these months, is that there are other people like me on the other side of the connection. People who make jokes, laugh, cry and have their ups and downs. To say the truth, with all the problems I had lately, raiding was really the last thing on my mind, but I always attended all the raids I could. If for nothing, for the fact that I did not want to be part of the cause of a cancelled raid due to low attendance.
I can't recall how may days I have wasted playing in front of WoW. Things may not always go the way you want, but in the end, what do you get? For some its just epic gear, for others, its just an escape from the real world and for others still its a way to be with their friends. I for one, have made some friends thanks to WoW whom I'm closer with than some real friends I have.
When you look back, what do you think you got? If you're in just for the gear, you would be better off getting a normal RPG, playing it till you reach the highest level and when you get annoyed, find another one. I can assure you, you will get much less frustrated than playing an online game with real people.
Although I have been in the guild for only a few months, I can't think of anyone of you, that are still playing the game only for the loot.
Try to keep this fun. I can assure you, there are things in life, much more important than any game out there.
Just my 2c and sorry for the long post.
:clap: :clap: Go Go Gore !!! that's what we wanna from ppl !!! giv fun trow the rest this is a game and we wanna play, it's rly annoying when u save the evening for the raid and it get cancelled due to ppl acting not as correct as we want in SoG. Imo some1 forgot what is the main thing in SoG ... Haveing fun with friends ... if u r here only for epix and DKP u r in the wrong guild
/agree with Vargen, could have hardly said it any better.
We will be farming the same dungeon over and over again anyway. Everyone will get the items they want eventually (although sometimes it can take a while -> Stormrage Leggings :devil: , just tools eh Vargen :narnar: ). Having a lot of DKP only increases the likelyhood of being the first to aquire the item.
On a side note: the DKP system we are currently using is fundamentaly flawed anyway, since DKP will become rather worthless after a period of time (everyone will have a lot and it will always be the same people that get certain items first, due to high attendance or being in the raid group for the longest period of time), but this is besides the point.
Personally I'd rather be raiding then sitting on the sideline and I'm sure most of RG2 feels the same way. It's mainly about the experience; what's the point of playing an MMORPG if you only want loot, instead of being a team player?
Whatever system the officiers come up with, with regards to who should leave due to too high attendance, it will be 'unfair' to some people. What I purposed seemed to be the 'lesser of evils' in this case (in my opinion that is). But then again, I don't expect this to happen all that often.
/signed Vargen
I play to have a good time, and to make sure everyone else has a good time (that's why I always have to take just another task) :biggrin:
I play to progress and experience new dungeons, and have that kick of teamplay and group sucess... remember TS when RG2 first killed Raggy... I love that, not because of the loot, but because the joy, and teamplay feeling! :biggrin: :clap: - Thats why I love SoG and WoW.
Yhea Saz, that what I like very much myself. For me it is getting 40 people with theire noses into the same direction and actually kill a boss that couldn't be done without team work. For me it is a thrill killing a boss for the first time....Osirian gave me a very nice feeling and Razorgore was a good feeling aswell (although we didn't brought him down yet). If it was loot I'm after then I would joined RG1 got my T1 set complete very fast and went on to BWL and AQ. For me it is the whole learning curve......the wiping, the talks, the wrong pulls, again the wrong pulls, the DI I used 3 times due to wrong key (while we were buffing up) coordination etc....
The more effort for a item or boss the better the feeling I still can remember my first epic gloves...that was awesome..... Then my first T1 boots..... and so on....
Now it gives me a thrill doing a full MC clearance in 1 night.... Remembering that it can take up to 12 hours killing a complete MC instance (once read on thottbot) and doing it in 3.5 hours :clap: :clap:
I can't wait to hear myself on TS when killing Nefarian.......I can asure you that Fraps is running in the background then!!!!
okay guys, group up buff up and pulling in 10 seconds....cya all toninght!
Lets join in than aswell. I chose this game, an MMO, not because I loved the graphics, the story, the items, the quests but I had already made some friends in the beta of this game and it was something I havent experienced before in any game. This still makes WoW the #1 game for me, though most of the pre-60 stuff I find lacking to other games because I already did it. But I love raiding with 20/40 people. New monsters to slay by teamwork which far out beats doing anything solo. And to hell that I gotta pay repair bills, I gladly give every coin that I got just so I can stand along side all of you guys the moment we kill Razorgore! :biggrin::taz:
Well to be honest, i'm currently having some problems at home with my parents. There was this tvprogram yesterday about WoW, saying that it ruins your life and stuff..And that there is no future if you play WoW..
I was like WTF?!..So my parents have seen that program and now i can't raid anymore =/ My parents simply won't let me..I'm so ****ed off at the moment.
But i'll be there tonight @ MC. No doubt about that. So if i don't show up at what raid or anything, you know it's because of my parents and NOT because of me. I'll try to be there every time we're raiding.
Amen, over and out.
use the old trick, you go over to a friend hanging around....Better to play wow then just doing nothing outside on the streets where they cannot watch your back!!! :biggrin:
Quote from: ThierryWell to be honest, i'm currently having some problems at home with my parents. There was this tvprogram yesterday about WoW, saying that it ruins your life and stuff..And that there is no future if you play WoW..
I was like WTF?!..So my parents have seen that program and now i can't raid anymore =/ My parents simply won't let me..I'm so ****ed off at the moment.
But i'll be there tonight @ MC. No doubt about that. So if i don't show up at what raid or anything, you know it's because of my parents and NOT because of me. I'll try to be there every time we're raiding.
Amen, over and out.
Yeah m8, tell them that if you didnt have WoW, you might get the urge to hang out on the streets, getting drunk every evening. Maybe start doing drugs and so forth... I'll bet ya, that works! :biggrin: - Just ask them "mom dad, isent it better I play WoW with my friends, that doing drugs and drinking loads of beer, with some 'friends' in the local park/mall wereever we can get drunk"?
And whoever did that program is not objective.... would they rather have youngster with nothing to do, other than make trouble! :blink:
OnTopicIm happy to see so many RG2 members with the right spirit! - I dosent go by unnoticed - I think im speaking on behalf of all Marshalls :clap: - Keep it up!
I always hate that kind of "research projects". I'm 31 years old and from the begining I had the problem that people judged me because I game a lot or try new things on the computer that consume a lot of time. The women of my age almost all, have the same attitude towards computers and gaming......while they seem to forget that 18 and 20 year old women don't have a problem buying an X-Box or gaming for them selfs.
Same with these kind of research project. That are always made by persons that don't share the feeling of a good game and they cannot find themself enthoustiastic enough as we do. They also come up (always) with the bad things/habbits about computers. No social life, NERD, strange behaviour....... But there are so many things to learn from it...problem solving, complex envirments, disicions to be made etc...
People that don't care about computers or don't feel anything for it always have there judgements instead to have an opinion and understand us.
for those I have my seal of crusader judgement ready to pwn there a$$e$.
Getting drunk , doing drugs or become a criminal (now I'm the same as those mentioned above) isn't much of a prosperous future.... I rather stick to my WoW and mix it with all the best that live has to offer!!
D.
Watched that program also last night. Or at least the last part of it. For those interested they can check it on www.novatv.nl (http://www.novatv.nl)
It is in Dutch so don't bother if you don't speak the language :narnar:
Quote from: GoreandorGuys.
This is just a game after all. We play to have fun. Although I'm one of those who don't chat much, the only reason I still play this game after all these months, is that there are other people like me on the other side of the connection. People who make jokes, laugh, cry and have their ups and downs. To say the truth, with all the problems I had lately, raiding was really the last thing on my mind, but I always attended all the raids I could. If for nothing, for the fact that I did not want to be part of the cause of a cancelled raid due to low attendance.
I can't recall how may days I have wasted playing in front of WoW. Things may not always go the way you want, but in the end, what do you get? For some its just epic gear, for others, its just an escape from the real world and for others still its a way to be with their friends. I for one, have made some friends thanks to WoW whom I'm closer with than some real friends I have.
When you look back, what do you think you got? If you're in just for the gear, you would be better off getting a normal RPG, playing it till you reach the highest level and when you get annoyed, find another one. I can assure you, you will get much less frustrated than playing an online game with real people.
Although I have been in the guild for only a few months, I can't think of anyone of you, that are still playing the game only for the loot.
Try to keep this fun. I can assure you, there are things in life, much more important than any game out there.
Just my 2c and sorry for the long post.
so so true mate, considering these facts, think when someone harras and mentally attacks someone else just because of this game, that's what makes me so much angry.
I was just playing final fantasy X this morning, have all the characters maxed up, all best weapons and gear... so much the same, in the end there is nothing more to do.
The only reason I play wow is because I love the game and, to share this fun with other people, that's the only difference between offline and online rpg.
Come home really shitfaced, with out your boxers, and with a girl under your arm, with her having her panties on her knees, a used condom in your hand and the bottle in the other. And say " Well, i COULD HAVE BEEN RAIDING!"
Quote from: NeffCome home really shitfaced, with out your boxers, and with a girl under your arm, with her having her panties on her knees, a used condom in your hand and the bottle in the other. And say " Well, i COULD HAVE BEEN RAIDING!"
LOL :laugh: :laugh:
Quote from: NeffCome home really shitfaced, with out your boxers, and with a girl under your arm, with her having her panties on her knees, a used condom in your hand and the bottle in the other. And say " Well, i COULD HAVE BEEN RAIDING!"
OMG! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
And then you find out that the condom wasnt your's cause of the size..... :lmfao: :lmfao: