Who actually wants to go to MC? From what i understand, we mostly do MC still because it helps guildbank out with moneys for flask of titans etc. Fair enough, we DO need this. But doing MC once a week is holding us back; this is time which would be better spent in AQ40 getting experience. A lot of people dont even bother to show up if they know MC is going to happen. Would it be the same if it was AQ40? Im EXCITED to go to AQ40. If its MC I'm more than likely to be afk/not putting effort in.
I dont know about the rest of RG1, but the best part of raiding for me is the first boss kill; putting in effort and achieving something. Unfortunatley i dont see many first kills on the horizon for us, whilst we're in our current situation. It's a shame because I believe we have the ability to succeed, but perhaps a lot of people lack motivation to go further. I know im sick of molten core after a year and its really making me lose interest in raiding in general, not just in MC.
To the officers: How much money do we on average make from a molten core run for guildbank? Perhaps we can find a way to generate this through other means, and then maybe have an aq40 raid night every week which isnt just "oh we have 2 hours left after killing nef, lets go to aq40". I know AQBank has a LOT of potential revenue sitting there unwanted, im sure we could afford to run MC only fortnightly, if at all.
I realise that a few people might need their T2 leggings still... but we killed ragnaros nearly 7 months ago, he must have dropped 50 pairs of leggings for us. Some people probably do deserve to get theirs if they havent already, but does everyone else deserve to be held back on progress because of it? MC is last years instance. We need to move forward.
Naxxramas is now open as im sure you all know, and we're only just starting AQ40. People want to get in there and see what it's all about. With new instances coming out every 6 months or so, why are we still doing MC after 12 months?
For me a night in Naxx wiping would be worth 10 in MC, and I know many feel the same, so we BEG you PLEASE let us make progress!!!
Maybe this thread makes no sense, but i dont care!
I think youre making some good points here, really worth listening too.
Joint RG1 and RG2 MC night might be TEH BEST?
worth chatting about.
i really want my TF
Lately I have been thinking about stuff related to the raid groups, there progress, there problems and there future (both short term as post expansion).
Here are some of them:
Firstly the one you stated Menedil. Because you are still doing the older easier dungeons there is only little time available for learning in a new one. RG2 will have the same problem soon enough, since we need one day for MC and the second for Onyxia and BWL. After downing a few bosses in BWL there just won't be any time left for further progression, even if we'd do MC and Onyxia on the same day.
Another concern I have is people with blue gear joining a raid group in the near future. For MC this isn't much of a problem, but since RG2 now also started raiding in BWL, it won't really be possible for 'new' people to join a raid group. How will this influence recruitment?
Third, when the expansion arrives (end of this year, probably in November) this will have a major impact, since not everyone will buy it and the raidgroups might need to be re-formed. Maybe there won't even be a second raid group that is raiding expansion content. It's better to anticipate this, then to wait for the problem to arrive.
And then there is the attendance problem ..., well I think you get the point.
I have some suggestions regarding this, but I'll post those tomorrow :happy: (since I gtg now).
Have to say that I agree with this personally and those who haven't gotten the Tier2 legs can most likely get something else from AQ40 when we've progressed just a little bit more. Unless we cut MC soon, we'll only have 1 day max on AQ40 progress which is very little.
kk Mene made some exellent points here, that are unarguable. also basicly what kreuz said. i just want to show my support for this argument which is very valid. but id also like to add something. and thats about motivation and the lack of it .. i just see some peeps not going that extra mile to get us where we belong. yes if you raid it costs gold yes it hurts if we wipe. but seriously you cant just expect to get all bosses down on 1-2 try. i see a lot of ppl just making some lame excuse, and then leaving allways after just some wipes. leaving another 30 guys who are burning for more tries hanging <_<
yeh we all got RL. but it all comes down to your motivation and enthustiasm. if you are exited about some new bosses you wil stay for as many wipes as it takes and then some. what we really lack atm is this enthustiasm. i use about 5 major mana pots in BWl just on nef. this is not becos i want to feel special, but it is becos its necessary. we all need to show a little motivation for raids. use 30 mins of your daytime instead of dueling/some other worhtless time taking stuff, to get you that edge!
that you know wil help you and your guild in their raid succes! what ever it could be. fishing/farming/trading. all that.
atm i am working full time. night shifts, early morning shifts all that. i got a gf that needs time as well and hobbies. yet stil i find time to play, it takes sacrifices like raiding til 1 AM and waking up at 6 AM :thumbsdown: but hey! this is the lifestyle i have chosen, and i am gonna try to take the best i can out of it. yes it sux to be tired at work but every1 is facing these problems. it all comes down to who wants it most! and i see atleast a handfull of ppl allways doing their best, allways wanting to go an extra mile and being ready to make sacrifices for it. so this is my plea either PUT UP meaning do your best to not leave a raid til its actually called(unless you got an emergency ofc b) and if you find within yourself to not be cabaple of, or just lost the motivation. plz leave your spot to some1 who is ready! tbh lately ive been starting to think about quitting wow again... raiding with friends takes a man far but theres limits, like menedil said we need to work our way to AQ40 by whatever means for motivation Fun and raid proggress. ultimately were going to want to do naxx. SoG has lot of potential this has been proven, now we just need to find it and use it !
and lastly one thing i have noticed. is this odd thing we have that i have not seen in those "top guilds" this ridiculous afking between wipes /buffing. this really needs to stop:angry: 39 ppl cant wait 10 mins on one person for 10 mins. you do a boss you wipe you res you buff you talk about it on ts and you go... there is no 20 mins brake in between. or there really shouldnt be i hope we get to cut this annoing habit soon.
I agree with ashjen
im just wondering what happened to the SOG spirit.. think back to december/january last year when we were SO damned close to taking ragnaros down, almost everyone that raided farmed for fire prot pots, mongoose pots, mroe FR gear, you name it we put effort into it, and damn was it rewarding when we got him down....
how times have changed.
Thats not true at all menedil.
I farmed over 150 FP pots solo, used them all in 1 raid.
SOLO (gathered them solo)
There was no spirit there :D
But i agree with u in principle.
I think for us to do MC, BWL and AQ40 we need to have 40 ppl show upp all the time and do the following.
Thursday
BWL
Sunday
If needed BWL then MC
Tuesday
AQ40
Or the following
Thursday
1915 MC pulling at 1930. Finish at 2200.
BWL 2215 do Razegore, Vael and Broodlord. Finish at 2400
Sunday
1915 BWL pull at 1930 do remaining bosses. Maybe finish at 2200. Then go to AQ40 kill Skeram.
Tuesday
AQ40 and have a full day taking the next bosses on the list.
If we are 40 ppl online we will do MC in less then 2 hours and 30 min. BWL we clear in one full night and if we can do 3 bwl bosses the same day as MC we can do the rest of BWL verry fast. Without whiping from firemaw to Nef takes about 2 hours.
So that will leaves time for AQ40. But this req that everyone in the raid focus.
U say that oh MC is boring. I had the feeling a while back to, but now i have a challange and that is to do as much dmg as possible for the entire raid. I know that healers might feel bored but we warlocks try to give u somthing to do sometimes, so please heal us if we should get agro. It will be more interesting.
So if we are still going to do MC and be able to AQ40 this is what needs to happen. PPL need to focus alot more and we need to raid to 2400.
When did Ragnaros the first time we played untill 0100. And did a full mc clear. And we used to play in MC untill we where finished, no matter if the time was 0100. So ppl u are guardians and raid time is from 1915 to 2400. So u are actually req to stay the entire raid.
Quote from: MenedilIf its MC I'm more than likely to be afk/not putting effort in.
Who are
you to talk about focus in MC Menedil? I guess it's not long untill you say the same thing about BWL, heck it seems like we're almost there... It doesn't really seem that you are max focused at Nefarian either; starting to host that poker game as soon as the killing blow hits you... That doesn't exactly help out on raid focus either!
Ashjen said something very clever that I think sums up that part pretty good:
"you do a boss you wipe you res you buff you talk about it on ts and you go..."I'm very aware that this might have been a bit under the belt, but it's something that has
slightly (understated...) annoyed me (
and others, I'm not alone about this part) since it started a couple of weeks ago.
I just had to blow out some steam, and for that you might think low of me, but I'm gonna try to be a bit more fair for the rest of my post.
First of all, what you're saying about lack of focus and enthusiasm: if you take a look at last weeks raids, that problem isn't only in MC. It has been many times that we've had problems even filling the BWL raids with fully motivated people, and that's a shame. And even though MC is by fare routine for us, it doesn't mean it has to be booring (you can read my oppinions about this in [post=140280]another post I made[/post] on the subject).
Secondly we have the problem about too little time in AQ40. This
is a problem the way it is now, no doubt about that. One can't have great progress in a new instance if one have less than a night's raid for it each week. But it doesn't have to be that way, and we don't have to skip MC to get more time in AQ either.
As of now, our best clearance of MC is 2h37min, and that wasn't even a speed-run attempt. It shouldn't be too hard for us to push that down to 2h30. If you look at BWL we have had the best time there at 4h48min, and here we have
much room for improvement - should be doable at 3h30 I would guess.
If you sum those two, you get a total of 6 hours, which means one hour longer than our raid night is now. The conclusion one can draw from that, is that we can either add 1h to Thursday raid night and clear
both MC and BWL in one go, or leave the last hour (say Chrom and Nef, or something like that) for Sunday. That leaves us with
two whole days for AQ, which should be more than good enough - but it requires that people
attend and
stay focused!
And trying to do MC and BWL in one run should be a challenge good enough for anyone! JT said something in his post that he used to feel that MC was booring, that was till he gave himself the goal to deal out as much damage for the raid as possible.
That's the spirit, and if everybody did that, we could really speed things up.
Than I've arrived at the topic concerning the loot. It's primarily two things that hold us back there: T2 leggings, and the legendary drops.
You said
"but we killed ragnaros nearly 7 months ago, he must have dropped 50 pairs of leggings for us", which is about correct. We downed Ragnaros for the very first time at the 5th of January. Last Thursday that was exactly 30 weeks ago, and with two leggings dropping each time, that makes 60 leggings. Now we haven't downed him every week since than, so 50 is perhaps a good guess. But we are
more than 50 people in RG1, and the drop rate hasn't been all even among the different sets either, so it's not hard to tell that there are yet quite some that haven't got them.
I'm not gonna comment much on the legendaries, cause I don't know too much about them, but I honestly think that we should have
at least one Thunderfury in RG1 before we leave MC...
Now on to the subject about wanting to progress further and faster into the new instances (Nax being the obvious one).
Silver Oak Guardians
have never been a hard-core raiding guild, and I truly hope that we never will be either. To be able to progress through the instances at the same pace as Blizzard implements new ones, you have to be hard-core.
And to expect us to have the same progress through the summer as we've had the rest of the year, is a bit too much if you ask me. People have holidays and other stuff that simply can't be avoided at this time of year. Remeber, this is the first summer and long vaccaiont we have to "face" since we started raiding, and that obviously brings some challenges, but it's nothing we shouldn't be able to deal with.
This has become quite a long post now, so I'm gonna try and round things off.
I might have stepped on some toes here, some perhaps even intentionally, but it has only been to try to push forward a point. I would be more than glad to continue the discussion, either in private or in public, about any of these matters, and it would also be great to perhaps move it to TS, cause it's not always easy to express oneselves in writing (I know I have some problems there sometimes, with English not being my native tongue).
No matter what happens and where the guild goes, I
will follow. It it weren't for SOG, there wouldn't have been a WoW life for me - it's just plain unthinkable for me to go another path than that of the guild.
I've been a member now for more than one and a half year, and I've been through many hard times together with the guild and my fellow guildies. We have faced different challenges, both in-game and "out-game", but they have all one thing in common: we have made it through together, and we've come out stronger on the other side. I believe the result will be the same now :smile:
Quoteim just wondering what happened to the SOG spirit.. think back to december/january last year when we were SO damned close to taking ragnaros down, almost everyone that raided farmed for fire prot pots, mongoose pots, mroe FR gear, you name it we put effort into it, and damn was it rewarding when we got him down....
how times have changed.
Kinda feel the same. But that was before, since i quit:P
Bob, you pretty much said it all. We still need Molten core, but i acutally thnk Jt's option looks valid.
I agree.
Must say both bob´s and JT´s are good points to set for the planing of the raids. So maybe it is just a matter of talking about it. So we know how ppl feel about it.
Quote from: Menedilthink back to december/january last year when we were SO damned close to taking ragnaros down, almost everyone that raided farmed for fire prot pots, mongoose pots, mroe FR gear, you name it we put effort into it, and damn was it rewarding when we got him down....
how times have changed.
What has changed, is that we now farm MC for money and gear, instead of farming Un'Goro for mats for fire pots or whatever/wherever. Doing the farming wasn't the most fun part back than, but it was something we had to do. It's not the fun part now either, but it's still something we have to do.
And that we farm MC together as a raid, instead of everybody some random place all by themselves, doesn't make it less rewarding when we take down a new boss...
I'm going to bed now - waaaay too late already :unsure:
Bob we dont need to do MC for money.
AQ / ZG are much much much MUCH bigger money makers than MC/Ony
MC is a waste of time, "YES TIER TWO LEGGINGS GET IN!!!!"
If the only reason why we still do MC is for tier 2 leggings, and Money.
You then have to ask yourself, what does RG1 need money for, at present fook all. What has been hinted in the past is that the money is needed for Fire protection pots, RG2 are more than capable (as RG1 were) to fend for themselves in the money area, so they shouldnt need the money input for the pots from RG1. We will however need money for alot of nature resist potiosn in the future (which the guild bank, can never ever ever feasibly pay for the whole raids, as itll literally cost 1000 g per raid night). Flask of titans, The BoE blues from Nef, can pay for them.
And for the point of tier 2 leggings, There ARE better leggings in BWL, than every tier 2 set, period. 8/8 set bonus, to be fair is gonna fook all.
MC is boring as hell, not worth the time, (might be nice to do every 3/4 weeks) and hindering the potential to progess forwards in new instances.
In a even smaller summary :
Money can be gotten from ZG / AQ, Selling the tier 1 epics.
Tier 2 leggings aren't worth the 100+ hours of man power to just receive 2, when theyre are potentially better leggings in BWL.
I'd rather work towards something, with full focus in mind, ill admit i cant be arsed to focus in MC, neither can alot of people, the amount of chit chat on TS can prove that aswell :D!!
In defense to menetit, he was closing the poker game as soon as nefarion had gone back to this throne. AFTER I WHOOPED ALL YOUR ASSES!!! !!1111
Believe it or not the level of focus has gone down hill since TL has gone on holiday :D, as proved by sundays BWL raid, the abysmal try on Chrommy kinda proves that xD.
*EDIT, holy hell bob, thats more than i wrote for my GCSE english CW*
Im not quite sure why you brought up poker bob, cos its 100% irrelevant to anythign this thread was intended to discuss. However i'd like to put forward a rebuttle.
QuoteQuote:
Originally Posted by Menedil
If its MC I'm more than likely to be afk/not putting effort in.
Who are you to talk about focus in MC Menedil?
Read what i said. I said im more than likely to NOT be focused in MC. My point was that I'm probably one of the most dedicated raiders that isnt an officer if you go by attendance, and there are lots like me that just dont give a rats ass about MC.
Regarding poker and nefarion... do you honestly expect people to sit there doing nothing for 15 minutes while we wait for nefarion to respawn. Perhaps going afk and getting occupied by something where the raid leaders cant reach us if we're needed is a better idea (i seem to recall someone shouting at jariuna for being afk 30s too long while cleaning the freaking dishes - thast a reaction whcih is best left at home in the future please). It's harmless fun. The poker game goes up pretty much when the last person is down, and as soon as nefarion respawns the poker game is shut down and EVERY ONE that was playing (including usually a couple of officers i might add) gets their game face on and we put in 100% and then some. Incase you havent noticed, we ONLY play poker during nef respawns. No other time during raids. If you really do feel its detrimental to the raid please say why.
I'm more than slightly annoyed at what youve said. Put yourself in my situation, I lead a raid pretty much every night we're not in BWL/MC/AQ40, I have 90+% attendance for the last few months... and then imagine some ignoramus giving you undue harsh critiscism for relieving tension a bit...
QuoteJT said something in his post that he used to feel that MC was booring, that was till he gave himself the goal to deal out as much damage for the raid as possible. That's the spirit, and if everybody did that, we could really speed things up.
a lot of us dps classes have been doing that for... lets see... a year now. yep. still boring.
I will agree that we dont HAVE to skip MC to get more time in AQ40. All we need to do is prioiritise AQ40 more than MC. Right now AQ40 is mroe of an afterthought, an - "oh, we killed nefarion... what now? lets do aq40!!", thats how we should be treating MC.
T2 leggings.. like i already said, how long are we going to be kept back when SO many of us want to make progress? There will be better drops in future instances. Dont get me wrong, im not saying people dont deserve to get them, its just everyone else doesnt deserve to be held back because MC is treated as a "high priority" instance to raid.
Legendary loot.... for a thunderfury you need 2 drops with a like 0.1% drop chance. After 7 months we just havent got that lucky yet for ANY in rg1. Will we in another 7? maybe. Do we have time/will to sit around with our thumbs up our asses and see if we do? lots would say no.
Youre right we have to get money from somewhere. But that doesnt HAVE to be MC. and the difference between farming un'goro and MC is that farming MC takes up a raid night, or the best part of. farming un'goro could be done at any time without stopping raid progress. imagine how much slower progress would have been if we spent the first 3 hours of the MC night farming elemental fire instead of clearing to ragnaros. That's what we're doing here. It doesnt make it less rewarding when we do take down a new boss because we do MC still, but it does mean that we'll take down new bosses less frequently tahn if we spent that time in AQ40.
We have more "hard core" rules than guilds like danu, yet they are further ahead of us in instances. I see guilds wiht much more casual raid rules alongside us in progress, and i have no idea why. If we are trying to be a hardcore guild then we have all the rules but we're failing on achievements... The whole point of RG1 is that tehy were supposed to be hardcore raiders, we're in it for progress and FAST progress at that, obviously this is an opinion not shared by quite a few RG1 it seems. Blizzard releases a new instance every 6 months or so, right? maybe a little less. We "completed" BWL in just under that. We CAN keep up with the instance turnaround - we're just a little behind the rest.
Feel free to take up anything with me on TS.
And dont bother ****ing me off again, it really makes me think my contributions to this guild are completely wasted.
tier 2 leggings....pffftt....go AQ40 get ur tier 2.5 leggings...
keltor out!
Just out of interest, can anyone remember how many Ragnaros kills we had under our belts before moving onto BWL?
just one.
Quote from: MenedilAnd dont bother ****ing me off again, it really makes me think my contributions to this guild are completely wasted.
First of all, if I gave you the feeling that your contributinos to the guild are wasted, I deeply apologise for that. There is no doubt you've put in a great deal of work (together with many others - both officers and "normal" members) with both the 20-men and the 40-men raids, and also other stuff that the guild spend it's time on. Your work is highly appreciated and respected!
Quote from: MenedilIt's harmless fun. The poker game goes up pretty much when the last person is down, and as soon as nefarion respawns the poker game is shut down (...) If you really do feel its detrimental to the raid please say why.
To try and drag the discussion on this particular matter down to a more sensible stage:
Yes, I do think something like that can be detrimental to the raid, for several reasons:
- Ending the poker at the soon as Nefarian respawns is too late - at that point we should already be fully buffed, at our places and ready to start the pull at the very same second as he appears.
- Two weeks ago, I tried to time exactly when Nefarian was about to respawn, and I asked people to start buffing 5 minutes before he should do that. Even so, we wasn't able to before 4-5 minutes after he had respawned. I don't say this is all the poker's fault, this might have more about general focus, but I think the poker can affect general focus in a negative way.
- 15 minutes from we whipe and till we should start the next pull ain't a long time: one should ress the whole raid/run back, perhaps do some repairing, but most important of all: one should think about and discuss (both on TS and in raid chat) what went wrong the previous try. We whiped for a reason, and we should try to identidy that reason, and find out what we can do better the next try to avoid the same thing.
- Last, I think half the raid (don't know how many there's room for in one game?) runnin off to play poker between tries kind of ruins the fun and lively chat we usually have on TS, and that I personally think is sad.
Quote from: ThrebrilithLast, I think half the raid (don't know how many there's room for in one game?) runnin off to play poker between tries kind of ruins the fun and lively chat we usually have on TS, and that I personally think is sad.
Fun & lively to you, i would like to see a LOT less bull and a lot more focus on TS. The current TS is just out of hand, its at times hard to get orders and tactics through all the mindless banter.
Do you know theres a lot of ppl that have it turned off between boss fights? or that mute every1 cept the raidlead? Heck, i could be tempted where it not for the fact i actualy have to hear ppl sometimes.
As for the time lost on nefarion, i agree, but it seams to be hard to motivate ppl to actualy get off thier arse before they see him standing there. Might have something to do w/ fact i dont normaly lead, but somehow ppl seam to listen to TL a lot better.
No offence Bastet, it's probable how you are, but TL is treating people more with respect then you do, and that would be for me one reason to listen to TL and not to you.
About the subject, I highly agree with Menedil on this, even tho we are not a hardcore raiding guild, we all know that RG1 aint just casual, and we are playing this game to make progress, have personal archievements, and get the loot you were looking forward too, which all results in having fun with this game. Molten Core is not something I see like fun, however I still attended all the raids, to help others, but at some point you (as in we, RG1) just have to stop it, and move on. To stop MC for all the reasons mentioned(sp) in this thread.
well your more then welcome to give it a go yourselfs, during the raid i have anywhere from 5-10 ppl whispering me, and having to think off a lot of things (soulstones, timers, tactics etc) and since i dont really fancy the job in the first place i tend to end up a bit short fused. And then ppl not listening dont help my mood one bit. So to say i dont respect ppl is a bit crude.
Anyhow, its good i dont have to do this on a daily basis, cause the stress would prob cause me to lose intrest in wow w/in the week
About the TS being unfocused, I've never seen people not shut up when they hear that the RL is about to talk, it's abit hard to know when people are about to talk and not, we're not mind-readers. Having fun on TS is one of the few things that I like about raiding, and if we're only going to have it "serious and focus" then the raid will just become more boring and less fun.
About the poker game between Nefarian fights, I think it's alright to do it then and the problem with buffing is most likely not the poker game but people just not hearing you Bob. I myself always buff when my timer has hit 1min untill Nef spawns no matter if I'm playing Poker or not.
Raidleading is stressfull at times maybe but it's only as hard as you make it to be. There's already been set some jobs to Officers that they always do instead of the RL and you can also set some other tasks that the Officers can do aslong as they're familiar with it. One of the reasons Theodwyn quit I think was because of the stress of being the RL and I remember the fact that he did just about everything that was done by officers in MC because he didn't hand out jobs to the rest of the Officers.
Btw Bob, it's 9 people that can join the poker table including the Dealer.
Well maybe I formulated it wrong, but what I mean to say is, I know you are busy with alooot of things, but so is TL, and still he's more relax and nicer to people. As I said no offence, I respect HIGHLY what you do for the guild, I know it's alot, but the way you act versus other people, is really getting on some peoples nerves, lemme give you an example:
We killed Nefarian for the first time, shortly after that, you fall out versus someone, and the excuse: Im in a bad mood etc. I mean how the heck can you be in a bad mood when we made such an archievement. And sorry to say, but alot other people in the guild feel this way about you. it had to be said once, and I guess im the one thats doing it now. As I said, your hard work and dedication to the whole guild and everthing around it is VERY ! ! ! respected! It's just your attitude lacking towards others on social things. I think you are a very good man, but sometimes not.
Dunno how to discribe this but i think this was the way
Wow, a resurgance of many old old problems, the poker game can be seen as a culprit because it is a high profile thing that peopel talk about between fights, so if a fight ends badly , it's easy to blame, but to be honest, has anyone who played done something wrong/slow etc because they were playing it? I don;t know since I haven't joined but I think it's unlikely, peopel always want to find a cause/scapegoat for things they don't like.
Similarly, talking on TS between fights, it's the same thing, a distraction that is not related to the fight at hand, but I think we are all at the stage now where we won't truly let it interfere, personally I talk alot but when a red TS person starts talking (albeit with TS delay) I'll shush, no-one feels more of a nonce than the person who ignores instructions and then has to ask what to do.
Lastly, raid leaders all do a difficult and stressful job, and if you think aobut it, they are one person organising it so 39 people can get kit, I can understand if sometimes they can get stressed and annoyed (no excuse for some meanness but there we go). I will come clean and say yes I had a big problem with how Bastet seemed to treat people, to the point where I think I'm his Arch-nemesis lol, but he does do a hell of alot for the guild both in and out of game. This isn't condoning anything since I also wouldn't agree with someone saying 'well I gave you a fiver so now I'm gonna kick you in the nuts'. However he has made a marked improvement, over the last few weeks (I'm trying not to sound condescending, can you tell). Try and re-evaluate opinions now and then people, everyone changes, and it's in all of our interests to be nice to each other.
Final word, don't confuse respect for friendliness, there are some people I wouldn't class as good mates but who's judgement is sound, there are some people i like who are full of hot air, a few people are both knowledgeable and fun, but so far, none who are neither, and sometimes you need to slap someone and treat them like a bad pet if they insist on behaving that way, respect is earned ALWAYS!
Edit:
Mene and bast, don't give up leading raids, you do do a good job, jsut sometimes it pays to be sweet and nice to people even if they don't deserve it (this is a carrot to juxtapose the stick in the previous paragraph)
I'd just like to add that i agree with umbra.
And that respect isnt something you get, you earn it. Be an ass, get treated like an ass.
Well i can imagine that Bastet is fed up with this **** and thats not comforting his mood a lot i do agree that barking at people won't help at all and i even think that certain people have more feeling in beeing a leader then the other, this could be all kinds of reasons (tone of voice or just experience 1 of the few examples) But all that is not a reason to get Bastet down like this, i think the man has made a lot of sacrifices for the guild as it is and he deserves a shitload of respect for that, keep in mind without people like all the officers we wouldn't be geared up like this and we would still do pugs! And when Bastet gets ****ed at me i just say i love him and it usualy shuts him :P :devil:
I can understand both sides on this part cause i have been on both sides. (field marshall and 1 of the 20 man raid leaders(at least helping)). What menedil said also counts for me i raid 6 days a week (sometimes even 7).
You all say bastet can be harsh. lemme turn this around. Have you seen what some ppl write when in their opinion a non need class gets an item?
You all say be nice but if such things happen i see and hear enough things to prove otherwise. That might be offtopic but also look at yourselfs.
RL is stressfull and takes most of your time thinking of everything etc.
This stress combined with not doing it all the time makes a hard combo. With this combo ppl tend to be on edge.
Everyone makes mistakes and/or overeacts, we all do at times. But beeing in a stressfull position makes it worse.
Just some rambling of mine.
Lunares
People tend to see only the bad things written, don't forget I also said I have LOADS of respect for Bastet, and what he has been doing for us. But this topic isnt really about Bastet but about RG1 progress. Discuss.
^^
ok firstly OMG i slept 2h yesterday and i think my mind was left at somewhere along bobs first post..:tongue: but i think i read it all. but i agree with dajo on not focusing too much on one person/s, but i am sure glad mene started this thread. it has made rg1 let some steam out and a lot of great ideas have come from it! basicly every is making a lot of sense, i suggest reading everything ppl saying here (on proggressing ) and then talking some more. give out your ideas. and i hope the officers listen to what members gotto say about it as well!! its true officers are doing a lot of good work leading a bunch of rambling tarts like us :P but also theres those 30 other ppl who have allways been there raiding. so they deserve a say in my mind. and this is a great opportunity now so go on! also i can see now that BURNING inside peeps again 8) LETS KICK SOME ASS !
Yhea let's kick some boss a$$e$...:taz:
RG2 did a stunning progression yesterday including two wipes we did a full MC clearance AND OL....leaving a full monday for BWL Razorgore.....but RG2 will have the same problem due to the fact of 1 day less raiding.....In the near future we should be doing MC, BWL and AQ40 all in two days...
About the T2 leggings, maybe a member swap on MC day for those who still needs the leggings.....Let change a T2 leggins palla (RG2) for a T1 palla (RG1) for instance.
But knowing the officers, the probably on this subject already.
Oh one thing, you guys (RG1) better watchout cause RG2 is coming on strong towards you :laugh: :biggrin: :laugh: and then we can have a match about the fastest MC clearance.....
We cant D, we do raids @ random now, so we might do MC on any of our 3 raid days, and we did BWL last nite, and i dont think ppl would give that up for a shot at thier legs.
We could have a setup where we did MC every other week perhaps. Maybe we could even go as far as to cancel MC for both RG1 and RG2 and put MC in to the signup system same as AQ20 and ZG. But that is a bit up and ahead, and not to mention what it would do to our DKP system. (Can you say boom headshot).
Don't think we aren't discussing it on the top floor though. It has actually been a reacurring topic for quite some time.
Quote from: VargenMaybe we could even go as far as to cancel MC for both RG1 and RG2 and put MC in to the signup system same as AQ20 and ZG.
Bestest solution, evah.
As for MC DKP, What I see in alot of guilds is different dkp pools per instance, so comming to each BWL raid and never for MC and then go to MC and loot yer ass off is a no go that way. Maybe thats an idea we can maken an own system off.
That is a also a good idea Dajo, but that would require a full reset of the system we have now, and that would leave no "reward" for previous effort.
Personally I have nothing against a full reset. It is only a queue system basically. Everyone gets what they want eventually. It maight even push ppl to actually attend in stead of just riding along for loot on their insane ammounts of DKP :tongue: .
I guess some ppl would love it, and some would hate it. As with everything else :norty:
i like cookiez
I love you Menedil.
ye menedil <3 he is so hawt....... :blink:
YAY i cancelled my nightshift today so i can be in ZE raid :biggrin: i dont care where were going but i am so exited i am gonna come in HAWT!!! with all the dps stuff i can get + a possible ZG buff (i got head stil :flirty:) since its not everyday i get to cancel a shift. thus, lets make some proggress PLZ !
Yes plx, maybe even kreuz will stay up long enough to do some dmg :smile:
Dont see a reason kreuz should'nt , he sleeps all day and has his summer Vac ; )
Well i must say even tho we had some trouble and it certainly could have been a better run to AQ40, i personally liked the way we would just try again til the boss really was down ! we really cant be worried about no repairs. Was definitely going to the right direction. finally i feel like were taking this seriously. excellent raid spirit ppl keep it up :happy::clap::clap:
also great JOb TL + officers for making it go much faster than we usually do it starting on time and not taking too much time beween pulls. yes today i am happy to be SoG 8)
/Agree
/love SoG
Quote from: Dajo/love SoG
........
I have to add stuff here, i dont know if its relevant for us. but Danu Nephilimer. have removed DKP in Molten Core, its now pure rolls. Might that be posible for us. and it seems like they've reset there DKP pool for MC/BWL they have Seperate pools for each instance.
MC/BWL & AQ40 & Naxx
Luthor
Quote from: LuthorI have to add stuff here, i dont know if its relevant for us. but Danu Nephilimer. have removed DKP in Molten Core, its now pure rolls. Might that be posible for us. and it seems like they've reset there DKP pool for MC/BWL they have Seperate pools for each instance.
MC/BWL & AQ40 & Naxx
Luthor
imo that would increase the problem that ppl dont attend mc...
ie: i want items from aq40 and naxx, so then why even bother to show up for the rest? (sure theres the randomness factor, but randomness can be predicted..)
Quote from: Gorionso then why even bother to show up for the rest?
For the guilld, your friends, maybe?
Luthor has outlined serious problems with our DKP system.
We use the same DKP system for all 3 instances.
MC
BWL
AQ
And probs naxx when it comes.
As we all know the DKP is hugely mofo inflated. Im using this as an example (please no shouting at me)
Im going to use the druids Xyco and Vargen as examples here.
Xyco joined the guild couple of months ago, dedicated to raids, not seen him miss one yet, and holy hell he joins the guild and guess what? hes 3000 dkp behind Vargen, ouch in the face?
Thats equivilant to atleast 15 + drops. Before you all start shout "but lol, voretex he has been to more raids than Xyco, so he should get the loot first"
Oki oki, i agree with you there, vargen overall has put more work in that Xyco for all the instances (due to xyco joining later) BUT, hes done less work than vargen in AQ40. At present all the druids have ATLEAST 5 drops on xyco in any way or form, in BWL, some may say thats fine, but in AQ40 i think ouch thats a bitch for Xyco. He's put the SAME, if not more effort in than the rest of us druids, yet because of the insane amount of inflation from the DKP, he will always (assuming we all have the same attendance) be the LAST in line for any drops, providing all of us druids want it.
Tis just a big suggestion. I think we're the only guild i know that has the same dkp for all 3/4 40 man raid instances.
It would work great, if we all joined at the same time, but we didnt, some people have joined almost a year after the first DKP was issued.
It all does make sense, and i feel sorry for people like Xyco who have no chance in hell of getting loot in AQ40 for a long time.
*edit, before u say " butt yooooo?! heee am got leggings in AQ40. He got them because no one wanted them at the time "
You know it makes sense
Sep dkp systems ftw
*edit 2 - cant believed i typed that much at 2:30am - its alot for me aiiiight - "
agree wit nubtex
Can you agree ughhh *comment on the post i made rather than on this thread, thought it deserved its own
The problem with the DKP system has been known since probably about 3 months into raiding with DanuSoG. At that time it was the best system found but the more we used it the more issues came up. Some issues people didn't even notice. It was suggested changing the DKP system alot of times ever since DanuSoG was still raiding but it has still not been changed and therefore has become even harder to change since then.