I would like to hear views on spec for a warrior in BWL.
I will probably be tanking, and my current build is 31/5/15.
(specced to that when joining SoG)
I have been approached by officers if I would like to spec differently (i'm guessing more points in prot :happy: ).
What I would like here, is some views (pros / cons) at speccing more into protection, from ppl who have experience in BWL. (yeah, that's you, RG1)
Is it really needed??
I'm a little hesitant about a full prot build, since i feel i am somewhat gimping myself in other areas of the game, and so far i have no problem tanking bosses in MC.
Yeah, I guess that's a whole other story in BWL, that's why im asking about views / experience.
Piercing howl, ho! 0/11/40 isnt it that? Dunno how many points you'd need for Piercing howl. But you'd "only" need it for Kiting in razorgore, so i dont know. Send Siff a pm/ whisper :)
A 0/11/40 spec is not such a good idea I think, even I can understand that even though I never did BWL.
Tactical Mastery (arms) and maybe extra Parry (arms) points is very usefull for tanking.
Also lot's of things in prot tree (silence and stun) hardly ever works on elites.
Piercing howl is 11 in fury..
ATM im training dragonkins at razorgore, and not having, hence not using, Piercing howl. (to my belief it is not neccesary at those)
So far others have filled out the job of kiting legionaires using Piercing howl.
What i'm looking for, as opinions about speccing further into the prot tree.
Is it really needed?
Or is it just like: "erhm, we think it's safer that way, so just do it".
BWL-veterans, please discuss and share your infinite wisdom. :happy:
F.ex Broodlord, without the extra armor and defense and Shield wall f.ex you'd be smashed. You can tank with full fury, just that having a nice prot specc makes you need less heals, and you can be a nice meat wall :)
I never been prot specced in BWL, I was always eithers 31-20-0 or now fury specced. But that's enough for kiting at Razorgore, tanking a little at Vael, taunt order at Ebonroc and timelapse at Chromaggus. However, you are indeed probably gonna be MT1 or 2, so you need a decent tank build. I would most definatly go for last stand and shield slam for fights such as Broodlord and Nefarian. However, as I said I never been prot specced there, so it would be nice if either Ragnarh, Gorion or Optical would post something here.
And btw, piercing howl is nice to have in situation where due to circumstances you have to kite legionaires at Raz, but it isnt needed imo.
I would go for 10/5/36
Good example:
http://wow.allakhazam.com/profile.html?350536 (http://wow.allakhazam.com/profile.html?350536)
Check his talents.
Quote from: NeffF.ex Broodlord, without the extra armor and defense and Shield wall f.ex you'd be smashed. You can tank with full fury, just that having a nice prot specc makes you need less heals, and you can be a nice meat wall :)
Shield wall aint a talent, it's an ability every warrior has. ;)
it is needed if youre mt1/2 and probably even 3
now the Big question is. what do you want to do in the game? do you want to tank? or do you want to deal damage? if you want to deal damage.. forget about bieng a tank(youlle just waste money to respec back)
now.. if your call is tanking.. then there are several specs, atm me and raggy have 5/11/35 builds (but different talents in prot, the base is still the same tho), now be warned, if youre gonna go prot you will be useless to grind(unless you wanna grind in sm..) and you will have Big repair bills
you will survive longer in fight tho and if you want to do pvp, carrying flags is your job
take a look at my build, profile @warr section. (i am thinking to refine certain aspects of my prot build tho, like sacrificing the +10 def to get last stand and the final points in iron will)
As gorion posted, you dont need prot to tank, but once you have prot you gain several important skills, and improve some vital stats. Mostly its not about the ability to tank, but about the ability for the healers to keep you upright.
There should be plenty SoG profiles for you to browse on allakhazam.com
they should be uptodate , as we apreciate that ppl update profiles now and then.
On that note I am updating mine now. If you are trailing dragonkins you dont "need" Pircing howl ,but I use it whenewer I drop of the platform to help the ones trailing at my side and it is nice to be able to survive for some time with a lego in my dragn train.
Am considering som tweaks in my spec , don't follow anothers spec blindly takes some fun outof figuring out what you want in the game.
One other thing to consider in addition to 'what spec you could survive in BWL using'. Think about the impact it has on your healers. Aggro in BWL is real sensitive to healing in particular, so whilst you could look at one spec and say 'yep I'd survive with that', your healer may not if they have to put too much healing into keeping you alive. I think Piercing Howl is a needed talent if you are to kite legionnaires at Razorgore, but if you are going to be MT1/2/3 then I would prefer to see prot spect warriors who take less damage, need less healing, hold aggro etc. Just my 2 cents and remember I have never played a warrior, so I would talk to Ragnarh, Gorion or Optical as suggested above.
TL.
Yes indeed we need a fully protect spec tank as mt2 and prefer no. 3 also, but as earlier stated it all comes down to, what do you want to do... Tank or dps? Since we only have 5 spots in a raid for warriors, we have to have 2 tanks that have piercing howl and thats me and? Even further we prob. need a replacement if someone is missing, this leads to that warriors which are a very important class in BWL, needs to coordinate spec and generel roles in the raid.
This is a very good discussion to have, and i would to have all warriors that is in RG2 to comment on this subjekt, as it consercerns all of us...
Again Mjolner what do you want to do in RG2?
i have piercing howl
Yeh, i do know I don't have to spend alot of points in prot to be ABLE to tank.
And I also DO know about different specs and so on.. I'm not completely lost on this topic.. (says I <_<)
What i'm kinda looking for, is a discussion about the pros & cons of investing heavily in the protection tree.
atm i have:
5p in Anticipation for extra def.,
5p in Toughness for +10% armor value
and 5p in Defiance for extra threat.
These are IMO the best bang for the buck, since u only have to use 15p, thus still be able to invest deep into a "damage" tree.
some (quick) thoughts about some of the skills in the prot tree:
Shield spezialisation / imp. shield block: well, yeah, I see the it might come in handy, but are they THAT good?..?
Imp. bloodrage: bah.. the rage should come flooding to you soon enough.
Last Stand: I can see the usefulness. How often do you full prot warrs use it, and IS it that good?
Imp. disarm: im guessing alot of mobs / bosses aren't disarmeable / dont even wear a weapon.
Imp. sunder: doesnt seem that neccesary. u should have enough rage just by taking hits.
Imp. taunt: yeah, well. just an upgrade from an ability we already posses. doesnt seem that good.
We can always switch to battlestance and hit mocking blow (yes I know it can miss) if it resists.
Imp. shield wall: see the usefulness, but worth +20p in the tree?
Imp. revenge & Concussion blow: still guessing alot aint stunnable.
Imp. shield bash: silence. IF it works on certain mobs / bosses, worth THAT many talent points???
1-H specialization: More damage is always good, but again.. worth the points over viability for grinding, etc?
Shield slam: doesnt scale with gear, so it becomes more and more "weak", and doesn't seem all that great to me. (or am i wrong?)
My point is, there's alot of skills (imo) not worth investing in, compared to the other trees, and alot is "just" upgrades on already available skills.
You're easily gimping yourselves in other areas of the game.
Answers and examples very much appreciated. i might be wrong here.
And about piercing howl. That isnt a protection talent, but fury, so all the non-tanks probably have it, and as far as i remember (and that isnt far! :happy:), it is only really needed in 1 fight.
And about what I want to do in the raid.
I ENJOY tanking, but that doesn't mean i won't spec fury when I get better gear for it. (yeah, like thats gonna happen any time soon :thumbsdown:)
So i'm not saying I won't tank, since i really dig it, and i'm accepting / embracing the fact that you would like me to keep doing it.
I'm just worried that I will gimp myself too much with a more heavy prot build.
Tanking is fun, but CAN be stressful. Some nights you're just not that attentive (spelling?), and that can be for alot of reasons.
So counting on just the same couple of people to tank every raid, might be discussed too. Once in a while, it would be nice to see a tank rotation. Also for the learningprocess of tanking, for people who dont do it much.
Mostly talking about MC, since we're just learning first boss in BWL.
..just a thought..
Quote from: MjolnerShield spezialisation / imp. shield block: well, yeah, I see the it might come in handy, but are they THAT good?..?
it almost guarantees ur not gonna get critted at least twice in the next 5 secs. now broodlord hits like a bitch and it gets even bitchier if he crits. investing just 1 point in this should be good enough i'll say. up to u tho :smile:
Shield spezialisation / imp. shield block: Keltor said it. Its a must have on Broodlord, esp. on his 9k MS crits :blink:
Imp. bloodrage: THis lets you smack on sunders faster, thus making the time between you hit the mob , until dps can start, shorter. Also if you need to taunt something of healers etc, 2 sunders fast really helps you control the mob. (if it spawns, or its a pat)
Last Stand: Basically, you could start the fight with 120% hp ( if im not mistaking) its also usefull if your healers are starting to go OOm, or they're ressing someone. Or if you need to pick up a target while your not having any specific healers.
Imp. disarm: ****, eod.All the endgame bosses i know, are immune.
Imp. sunder: Same as imp. Bloodrage, it makes a shorter time between sunders, since sunder armour is an instant attack. Besides, you only have 100 rage.
Imp. taunt: Basically, you have a larger safety net. On very agro sensitive bosses you'd have to Taunt something off someone faster, and 2 seconds is well worth it IMO.
Imp. shield wall: Cant remember tooltip:P
Imp. revenge & Concussion blow: ****, same as disarm :P
Imp. shield bash: Yes, f.ex some AQ bosses _needs_ to be silenced. And a rogues kick may miss, while afaik Shield bash has a much larger hitrate.
1-H specialization: More damage = MOre threat, easy as that :)
Shield slam: It does scale with gear, irulan has some pretty nice crits with it, 1100+ hits generate a lot of threat; )
Well, thats my opinion, and im not a warrior (warlock LAWL!11) sooo. *End of post*
5p in Anticipation for extra def.,
5p in Toughness for +10% armor value
5p in Defiance for extra threat.
Shield spezialisation / imp. shield block: a block cant crit, and gives 1 rage point, yes its good, imp shield block, 1 point should do.
Imp. bloodrage: Can be handy, gives you a bit more rage to start fight w/ (dont have this one)
Last Stand: More hp is handy for somefights (agro gain on broodlord gives healers a bit more time to stick some heals on you, again dont have this one myselfs)
Imp. disarm: crap
Imp. sunder: You take hits yes, but spamming sunder/heroic you eazyly run out, i got this to help threath
Imp. taunt: handy on offtaunting ebonroc, and other drakes.
Imp. shield wall: 5 sec every hour? didnt get this myselfs
Imp. revenge & Concussion blow: imp rev crap, conc blow pre to slam, conc very handy in ZG/AQ/5man/Domo
Imp. shield bash: crap
1-H specialization: More dmg is more rage and threath, cant go wrong there :smile:
Shield slam: THE reason to go high in prot tree, scales with shield block value and makes LOADS of threath.
Check the link in my signature for sokhars profile, he uses currently a 5/11/35 spec, which kicks arse for tanking, and ill look at my SS of threath generation later today.
Quote from: SiffrediSince we only have 5 spots in a raid for warriors, we have to have 2 tanks that have piercing howl and thats me and? Even further we prob. need a replacement if someone is missing, this leads to that warriors which are a very important class in BWL, needs to coordinate spec and generel roles in the raid.
Two points here.
When you get to Nefarion ideally you take 6 warriors intially (3 for each side). RG1 have only just got to the point where we can DPS fast enough to do it with 5 warriors. RG1's 'first kill' on Nef was with 6 tanks present.
Secondly, yes co-ordinating which tanks have which skills and who will be in the raid on a particular night does need some thought and it can and will cause problems if you do not have the right talent mixture.
TL.
Quote from: Keltornow broodlord hits like a bitch and it gets even bitchier if he crits.
Understatement of the year. :tongue:
When RG2 gets to Broodlord you will discover the value of Flask of Titans. The extra 1.2k health is not just for laughs, it just reduces the chance of Broodlord one-shotting your best prot spec tanks.
TL.
its 1.2k, and its there for a reason,even with that flask your tanks will die, we normaly lose 1 or 2 over the fight.
Quote from: Bastetits 1.2k
The joy of admin edit rights :tongue:
TL.
cheat :tongue:
Also, the protection tree gives more aggro generating abilities, or enhances ones already there, and since a few of the BWL bosses are not tauntable, you have to rely on getting aggro from stuff such as sunder, revenge and HS. With the improved aggro gaining talents in the prot tree, this becomes easier.
all points taken. Thx for the answers, all.
And, yes, i see that Shield Slam does scale with gear via block value. my bad. (probably among alot more :happy:)
Quote from: Mjolner5p in Anticipation for extra def., (actually thinking of removing this from my spec, but my def is much better than yours..)
5p in Toughness for +10% armor value- needed
and 5p in Defiance for extra threat. - needed
some (quick) thoughts about some of the skills in the prot tree:
Shield spezialisation / imp. shield block: Get it!(my combination: 5shiled spec, 2/3 shield block (the last point just adds 1 second so its basically useless, you get hit fast)
Imp. bloodrage: only if youre going for last stand
Last Stand: can be very usefull in certain situations(thinking to get it myself)
Imp. disarm: sucks
Imp. sunder: worthless
Imp. taunt: get it
Imp. shield wall: sucks
Imp. revenge & Concussion blow: concussion blow-get it, imp rev. well some stuff in bwl is stunnable, but not really ness since youlle have conc blow
Imp. shield bash: ive got 1 point in this, 50% chance, 100% is better tho, very usefull against spellbinders
1-H specialization: more dam- more aggro generated, and helps you with your uselesness to kill stuff
Shield slam: v good
And about piercing howl. That isnt a protection talent, but fury, so all the non-tanks probably have it, and as far as i remember (and that isnt far! :happy:), it is only really needed in 1 fight.
now about piercing howl.. its a nice addition to survive, it will help you alot. and since you need 10 points in fury to get it:
cruelty- 5% more crit, crits- mega aggro, and also helps with your uslessness to kill stuff
unbridled rage- the more rage the better, procs like crazy too, remember youre hitting like crazy too
and lets not forget about 5 point in imp parry in the arms tree
Yeh, I know Gori. :happy:
The talk about PH was just to clarify that it wasn't a prot talent, thats all. not questioning its usability.
<_< that was just my 2c :P :norty:
Quote:dry: that was just my 2c :P :naughty:
..and I thank you for participating.. :smile:
That goes for all who have replied / come with answers & explanations
Reading all posts FTL, so I apologise If this is a repeat:
I've only been fury and then arms in BWL and I'd like to think I make a good contribution, as gorion said if you are gonna be an MT then prot FTW, otherwise (and more the case in BWL than anywhere else so far) fury and arms have some REALLY useful skills, i.e. piercing howl that's already been mentioned for RG, this is also useful on the zerg rush at Nefarian. also MS if you go Arms, you need at least one MS warr in the group really, on ebonroc at least. i use cleave and sweeping strikes on the drakos and zerg rush also at nefarian, anything that does mass damage/taunt etc, since you need to essentially keep aggro on alot of mobs, and once you have their attention, be able to take them down FAST (even if it's one by one)
the other fights is basically dps or tanking standard, in which case just switch kit for wrath/def etc if you are gonna be a backup tank
As umbra said, mortal strike is a must have in the raidgroup on ebonroc and later on in AQ40 on mending constructs.
Ach, then the day came.. Mjolner is now a protection specced warrior.. :tongue:
It all went very fast when respeccing (in the middle of BWL), so changes WILL be added to the talent distribution.
But i'm definately gonna try it out.. :smile:
(don't think my profile is updated.. gimme a couple of months for that.. :narnar: )
Ah so you're just like Gorion now? fat gnome with no hair that likes to tank? you'll be tanking chairs and Padding soon