Dead Men Walking

Old Server Admin Section => SOG War Room => Silver Oak Guardians => Archived Topics => SOG Archive => Topic started by: TeaLeaf on August 18, 2006, 11:28:53 PM

Title: Elementium Ore - Sceptre Quest Line
Post by: TeaLeaf on August 18, 2006, 11:28:53 PM
Lunares, Kregoron and I have been working on the Sceptre quest line over the past week or so now that we have the rep with Brood of Nozdormu.  We have completed the vast bulk of the various threads with some raid elements still to complete, some of which we hope to do this weekend.

The next element of the quest chain (the one to summon the 'minnow' shark raid boss) requires 20 arcanite bars, 10 azerothian diamonds, 10 blue sapphires and 10 Elementium Ore to make the arcanite buoy.

How do we get our hands on 10 Elementium Ore each?  And what's the price.  We're all prepared to pay something for it but I do not know how much we already have at the moment as the last update on the Moneybagz link was in February.

So, can anyone tell me how many we have and then can we have a discussion about guildies getting elementium ore for the quest line to complete?

TL.
Title: Elementium Ore - Sceptre Quest Line
Post by: Bastet on August 19, 2006, 08:42:31 AM
possibly we would have 40 ppl needing that soon, and there might be quite a few in bagz, but i dont think we have anywhere near that much. hard one, will need futher thinking, also since we need some for AQ40 quests once we get those
Title: Elementium Ore - Sceptre Quest Line
Post by: Padding on August 19, 2006, 08:43:59 AM
There's also Legendary weapons that need those, isnt there?
 
Im failing to see how this will benefit the guild.... enlighten me
Title: Elementium Ore - Sceptre Quest Line
Post by: TeaLeaf on August 19, 2006, 08:57:51 AM
It's a quest Padding, it means nothing to the Guild, but it's lore and we're following it.  We're asking what we have, how we can get hold of some and what it might cost (DKP, Gold or otherwise).  

As for Lunas' comments, I doubt we'll have 40 people following it - it's kind of like the Winterspring Trainer rep quests, they take so long to do that it puts 90% of people off, so I reckon we'll only ever see a few doing it.

Legendary weapons need it too, but tbh by the time you have the other mats drops requirements you'll have several hundred elementium ore in guild bank and supply will not be a problem.

TL.
Title: Elementium Ore - Sceptre Quest Line
Post by: Vargen on August 19, 2006, 09:47:08 AM
You will also need 3 elementium ore to each person getting the weapons quest after the twin emperors. So I really don't see any good in using all our elementium for this.
Title: Elementium Ore - Sceptre Quest Line
Post by: TeaLeaf on August 19, 2006, 10:38:18 AM
How many do we have?

TL.
Title: Elementium Ore - Sceptre Quest Line
Post by: Ragnarh on August 19, 2006, 12:00:21 PM
So by you turning in the elementium ore you get?
If you don't get anything, loot ,resepies or craftebols. Then I don't think I wil support handing out  10 elementium ore.(equal to 1thunderfury or 3 AQ40 weapons).
Title: Elementium Ore - Sceptre Quest Line
Post by: lunares on August 19, 2006, 12:34:05 PM
You do get some stuff out of it. A weapon at the end and a nice frost res ring also.
http://www.thottbot.com/?i=52510 (ring)
http://www.thottbot.com/?i=52822 (healing dagger)
Those are very good rewards a other part of the questline is also a nature res item.
 
Lunares
Title: Elementium Ore - Sceptre Quest Line
Post by: TeaLeaf on August 19, 2006, 12:39:46 PM
We get epic weapons, we also get the epic recipe that you and all tanks will benefit from (we sent a total of 400G worth of the special food to the 3 MTs yesterday).  The weapon for mage gives +dam and +hit chance - +hit is needed in Naxx.  We also get an epic +20 Frost resistance ring (with +other stats) needed for Naxx that also gives underwater breathing ability (helpful in the rumoured underwater boss for expansion).

So yes I think it is worth considering.  It is also a core part of the lore of the game and without the support of a raiding Guild a player would spend a huge amount of time and about 1,000G each reaching almost the very end of the quest chain and then being stuck and unable to complete the chain.

I come back to a question asked in the original post: how many elementium ore do we have?  What's the timescale over which we think we will need them for AQ weapons, and as for TF then let's see if it drops because right now it's not even in the equation!

TL.
Title: Elementium Ore - Sceptre Quest Line
Post by: Vargen on August 19, 2006, 05:44:31 PM
At the moment we have 54 elementium ore. We potentiaoly have two thunderfury coming, depending on the second part drops and I know once we get to the twin emperors we will need something like 3 per guardian I guess, depending on drops.
In avarage we get 3 per BWL run. Sometimes less sometimes more.
 
It's not purely up to me, so let me hear what you think.
Title: Elementium Ore - Sceptre Quest Line
Post by: KreuZ on August 19, 2006, 05:50:02 PM
Quote from: TeaLeaf;144094The weapon for mage gives +dam and +hit chance - +hit is needed in Naxx.  We also get an epic +20 Frost resistance ring (with +other stats) needed for Naxx that also gives underwater breathing ability (helpful in the rumoured underwater boss for expansion).

First of, +hit is needed everywhere against mobs equal or higher level then you.

Second, can you show me where this rumor of a underwater boss came from because I read forums, expansion info sites and other WoW sites every day and I've never heard of it.
Title: Elementium Ore - Sceptre Quest Line
Post by: Padding on August 19, 2006, 05:56:24 PM
I wouldnt be as worried about you buying them if it werent for the possibility of a number of people doing the quest
 
Im currently also in the run, but not as focused as you clearly are
 
Im on the if-we-think-we-have-enough-we-can-consider-it team
Title: Elementium Ore - Sceptre Quest Line
Post by: lunares on August 19, 2006, 07:57:30 PM
About that we need 3 ores a guardian. You also forget that when we kill the emperors we also need a specific drop from them each kill(or other bosses but those droprates are pretty low). So that means 3 ores a week. We also do BWL which is normally also 3 ores a week. So i dont see a problem with that.
About thunderfury i dont see the relevance of it. You say its 1 of the best weapons for tanking then i reply that dagger reward is 1 of the best healing weapons.(lets compare it has some nice stats for a 1H and plus 121 plus healing. Benediction has plus 106 healing!) Not to mention we need another drop for it beeing 1 of the other bindings. It can drop tomorrow or next century.
 
Lunares
Title: Elementium Ore - Sceptre Quest Line
Post by: Vargen on August 19, 2006, 10:24:12 PM
My biggest worry beaing; If you get this, what happens when 20 others want the same?
We should be able to treat people the same?
Title: Elementium Ore - Sceptre Quest Line
Post by: TeaLeaf on August 20, 2006, 04:15:53 PM
Some of the rewards from the quest line, including the resistance ring and neck piece which are seriously good.  All used for Guild benefit.

TL.

Onyxia Embedded Leggings (http://www.thottbot.com/?i=52527)
Amulet of Shadow Shielding (http://www.thottbot.com/?i=52526)
Gnomish Turban of Psychic Might (http://www.thottbot.com/?i=52485)
Recipe: Dirge's Kickin' Chimaerok Chops (http://www.thottbot.com/?i=52486)
Drake Tooth Necklace (http://www.thottbot.com/?i=52513)
Drudge Boots (http://www.thottbot.com/?i=52514)


Band of Icy Depths (http://www.thottbot.com/?i=52510)
Darkwater Robes (http://www.thottbot.com/?i=52512)
Fang of Korialstrasz (http://www.thottbot.com/?i=52822)
Shadowsong's Sorrow (http://www.thottbot.com/?i=52882)
Runesword of the Red (http://www.thottbot.com/?i=52883)
Ravencrest's Legacy (http://www.thottbot.com/?i=52884)
Title: Elementium Ore - Sceptre Quest Line
Post by: Ragnarh on August 20, 2006, 04:47:45 PM
Pls divide them into can do without ore and with.Cause you dont need ore to get all those. :eyebrow:
Title: Elementium Ore - Sceptre Quest Line
Post by: TeaLeaf on August 20, 2006, 05:53:24 PM
Nope, but you asked what benefit the guild got from the quest line.  Voila.  I've also inserted a break to help you, the things above the break I believe are possible without ore, the things below are not.  The things above the break do not come easy or cheap though and many things we simply cannot do without Guild help.

TL.
Title: Elementium Ore - Sceptre Quest Line
Post by: Ragnarh on August 20, 2006, 09:54:12 PM
AS far as I can tell, the only quest and loot that can be had by turning in the elementium ore is
 http://www.thottbot.com/?qu=8728 (the bad news) and
 http://www.thottbot.com/?qu=8729 (The Wrath of Neptulos)
that gives
Band of Icy Depths http://www.thottbot.com/?i=52510 or
Darkwater Robes http://www.thottbot.com/?i=52512

After you get the shards  the quest line ends (as far as I know)

Jasper Link is an alternative to the ring . has not got the 19 stamina tho and may have tho be bouught at AH ,but all in all it is probably cheaper and I don't see to manny casters rolling on the + stamina rings (warlocs excluded).

Unles there is a followupp quest (with revards) that I am not avare of. Then I am not to keen on handing out ore for this ,at this point in time (we have a wave of 3 elementiumore reqest ahead of uss I think).
:unsure: pls don't eat me
Title: Elementium Ore - Sceptre Quest Line
Post by: lunares on August 20, 2006, 10:17:13 PM
The questline ends after you get the shards indeed but not without giving you a choice with 1 of the 4 swords/daggers. Which Tl linked in a previous post so you can look them up there.
you say you get a lot of 3 ores for the items from AQ40. When you think we will get there and how you thikn the droprate is. That droprate is about 1-3%. So how many would drop of those in a full clear Assuming we get the twin emps down soonish.
 
Lunares
Title: Elementium Ore - Sceptre Quest Line
Post by: Bastet on August 20, 2006, 10:42:29 PM
i would not see a problem with handing out elementium ore @ this time as long as there is a heafty DKP price, preferably on the AQ system, since that is afterall where the quest leads too.
 
Edit: Also checked the bouij thingy, theres 600-1000g of other stuff requried, before the quilify for the elementium they would be required to have. And the rewards at the end of the quest line are as good for a priest (if not better) then TF for a warrior
Title: Elementium Ore - Sceptre Quest Line
Post by: TeaLeaf on August 21, 2006, 10:03:21 AM
Just for info: Luna, Kreg and I already have already bought all the other mats required for the buoy part of the quest line.

Re your suggestion Bastet, I see no problem with paying a DKP cost for elementium ore, but I would suggest that if this is agreed that it be deducted from the source DKP table as this is how we currently treat lava/fiery cores etc.  The ore drops in BWL so I believe it should be deducted from the BWL DKP table.

TL.
Title: Elementium Ore - Sceptre Quest Line
Post by: Padding on August 21, 2006, 10:15:33 AM
Im no so much concerned about the current level of ore, more like the people that will do the quest chain later (like me). Then we need a plan to accomodate all these people since all need a fair shot at the quest
 
How could we make that fair for all people?
Title: Elementium Ore - Sceptre Quest Line
Post by: TeaLeaf on August 21, 2006, 11:35:54 AM
How about by doing it in order - the order being hwo far they have reached in the quest already under their own steam.  There is no way we can be fairer than that other than by obtaining 10 ore for each raid member 'just in case' they complete the quest line.  

TL.
Title: Elementium Ore - Sceptre Quest Line
Post by: Ragnarh on August 21, 2006, 03:16:22 PM
Got another idea.
If we are going to hand out the mats the person has  to have done the other parts and show the crystals Red and Green .Then there wil be no disscussions of who is the farthest only are you done (if we agre to hand out).
And if handouts are going to happen ,then there mut be 10 ore left in guild bank reserved for ouor might come one day THunderfury
(you no get ore if there no be 10m left when you got yours) lesser needs are prioritised (guy wanting 3 goes before guy wanting 10)
Title: Elementium Ore - Sceptre Quest Line
Post by: Bastet on August 21, 2006, 03:43:03 PM
prioritizing TF over this is stupid if you look at the end rewards, but i can agree in keeping 9-12 in reserve for AQ40 quests, and i can also agree in having to have the 2 other shards before you apply for this one.
Title: Elementium Ore - Sceptre Quest Line
Post by: Padding on August 21, 2006, 04:23:24 PM
Quoteprioritizing TF over this is stupid if you look at the end rewards, but i can agree in keeping 9-12 in reserve for AQ40 quests, and i can also agree in having to have the 2 other shards before you apply for this one.

I agree on all bastet says here, however should more people be at the same stage they should roll to see who can get it first, not officer priority. This being the specific quest at the specific stage, not the whole Scepter quest since its pretty hard to see who is actually where in the whole big quest
Title: Elementium Ore - Sceptre Quest Line
Post by: TeaLeaf on August 22, 2006, 08:16:22 AM
I actually think for such a huge quest line it is remarkably simple to see where people are and I still believe that you should be given priority the further down the quest line you are, just like we already do in ZG for the Madness drops.  

The  reason my belief in this is that the Red shard (the Nefarian drop) is remarkably easy to get the quest for.  Therefore you could have quite a few people obtaining the quest and then rolling for the drop item when they might have done very little or none of the other quest lines.  

The Blue shard line is one of the toughest and it has the most parts, it is also the one that requires you to spend a large amount of both time (about 2 days grinding) and gold to collect mats.  If people get to that stage and completed the Chicken, the Googles and have got the easier pages from the Book line, then ok give them rolling rights, but to compare someone who just has the red shard quest with someone who has completed most of the rest of the multiple threads is more than a little unfair.  

The result of an 'equal chance to roll' decision would be that potentially lots of people will decide to roll and few will ever bother to use the drop item to complete the book or the quest line, let alone know what the drop is for - all this would do is delay those serious about completing the quest line.  This is similar to what we already see with the Head of Broodlord, many people roll, but how many of them actually knew what they were rolling for?  Judging from their total lack of knowledge about the Sceptre quest line when speaking with them over the last few weeks I'd say that  90% of the people in our Guild with the Broodlord head do not know about the quest line but rolled for it anyway in a 'equal chance' roll: and that's an equal chance that is not fair to others imo.

TL.
Title: Elementium Ore - Sceptre Quest Line
Post by: Bastet on August 22, 2006, 08:47:02 AM
Summing up what i would like to see:
 
Ppl get rolling rights for the red scepter quest if they have the 4 pages you can get solo.
Ppl quilify for the elementium if they have all the mats, and the red and green scepter fragments, some 9-12 elementium will be held in reserve for the AQ40 weapons. TF will not be prioritized over the scepter completion.
Title: Elementium Ore - Sceptre Quest Line
Post by: Padding on August 22, 2006, 09:12:37 AM
If you can get the quest, then you are on the same line in that particular quest and you are eligble to roll. Thats my opinion.
Title: Elementium Ore - Sceptre Quest Line
Post by: TeaLeaf on August 22, 2006, 09:16:39 AM
Do you disagree on the ZG Madness approach that we currently employ then?

TL.
Title: Elementium Ore - Sceptre Quest Line
Post by: Bastet on August 22, 2006, 09:29:07 AM
i think he sujested that system, but anyhow, theres 4 pages you can get solo/5man, i think its fair to ask them to get those before they qualify for the red line, since it take time, and if they get them all np then thier serious about completing the line.
Title: Elementium Ore - Sceptre Quest Line
Post by: Padding on August 22, 2006, 10:41:07 AM
I helped a lot in creating the loot rules for madness quest since im still stuck at cant getting the trinket done because initially it was a roll and im not that lucky in rolls. That resulting in me only have 1 piece of the trinket even though being exhalted in ages
 
I still fail to see how ZG loot rules (raid) corresponds with individuals making a quest personally
 
I will however be available on TS tonight if you want to try toexplain it to me again since i obviously dont understand why some people gets priority over others. When i have it explained, i might be able to change my mind
Title: Elementium Ore - Sceptre Quest Line
Post by: Padding on August 22, 2006, 10:42:35 AM
I want to take a new fresh look at this, so i urge you to talk to me on TS tonight so i might be able to understand your position better
Title: Elementium Ore - Sceptre Quest Line
Post by: Ragnarh on August 23, 2006, 04:11:23 PM
I am bias.
As I wil be wanting the red quest for the shadow res neck, and the full questline revard don't seem woorth it to me.

And pri on TF to cope with rising agro production need for tanks ,