Quotewe used to be in the same italian guild (i was an officer) some month ago ( before i applyed to SoG) and we been in the guild together for some months too, he used to tell me "yea you r a great player" "your english is perfect" and seemed he liked me as friend and player.
After some time of completly doind nothing in the guild i started to plan about doing MC and ZG with the italian guild and offered myself as raid leader. after i talked to other officers it was decided that i could have moved my lock to another guild to learn tattics and lead the path into MC with my pally alt in the italian guild.
When i moved my lock one day i logged the pally and Finegas and another officer started to yell to me that i'm a ******* i didn't care about the guild and the ppl in the guild and i moved my lock only cuz i was a lootwhore a selfish and some other words i don't remember.
After that i talked to the other officers and left the guild with my pally too and i applyed to join SoG
some day after i joined he whispered to me somethng like "are u ****ed with me ? cuz i think we should be friends and i've nothing against you".
That's why i say he is a ******* and i don't want him in my guild
Best regards Ash
Now asheera really dont want to be in the same guild, and said there might be some more itialians having problems with this guy. Please reconsider his application before ppl like ash start leaving.
We might wanna have a chat with ash about this. I dont know Finegas so wouldnt know if he is an idiot.
I can see Finegas was accepted into SoG yesterday so we might wanna do something swift before people starts leaving.
Indeed. I believe Asheera has been told by Bastet to put any action on hold whilst we investigate further. There are two sides to every story.
TL.
This indeed bad news and we will have to make somekind of action on it.
But what do we do?
If we kick Finegas because some people don't like him when will we see this again, everytime we got in a person who someone don't like or what?
Could we call Finegas and Asheera to a meeting on TS and sort it out or what?
yeah i listened something similar as asheera story, not the bad words, but that he left guild to learn tattics and that this was not took by the guild and officers as a " move for the guild".
anyway i know finegas in real life, he is about 28 old, he is not a child.
i hope asheera don't wanna leave guild because he argued months ago with an old guild and his officers.he is a good player and i hope he will not do something stupid like that.
and if i can spend a good word for finegas i dunno who are those italians players that " hate" him, here in SoG all italians are a good friends( all without asheera with this finegas it seems).and finegas seems that wanna stay in SoG also if asheera is here.
and nope, i don't think we need to kick finegas for this asheera problem.
anyway i think we need to pay attention to waht asheera said.
whats the problem? finegas seems that wanna stay in SoG also if asheera is here, is asheera that has some problems with the other one.
and whats the problem asheera? it is and old problem for an old guild that is dead, now they are in the same guild again and they had to work for it and enjoy this game.
Quote from: asheera;147356some day after i joined he whispered to me somethng like "are u ****ed with me ? cuz i think we should be friends and i've nothing against you".
so this is an asheera problem, not a finegas one.
I think I would point out that we need to find out what happened from both sides. We then need to come to a reasonable decision as to what is best for the Guild - this is not pre-judging anything, but just highlighting that we cannot come to a decision here in this thread until we have spoken to them both. I would suggest that the Marshalls contact Finiegas and get his full version of the story and post their findings here. Bastet and the other FMs will endeavour to speak to Asheera today to get futher info and will post here.
A TS discussion on this matter will be held this evening.
TL.
Quote from: TeaLeaf;147389We then need to come to a reasonable decision as to what is best for the Guild [...]
A TS discussion on this matter will be held this evening.
TL.
decision? what decision? i think and i'm sure that they can stay in the same guild, finegas has not problem, is asheera that has it.
so i can say that if i hate someone and i don't wanna stay in the guild with him the guild had to kick him?... this is what asheera wants??
nope, this is not a good idea for me... if asheera don't wanna stay more here he can leave, but finegas want stay here, also if here there is asheera.
so why we had to kick finegas if he has no problems?!
and what problem is for asheera? they just argued something that is past, now they can play here together, also if asheera i think will never whisper to finegas.
i have spoken with finegas now.
he said that that time, when asheera left the guild, all officers were angry with him, also the GM. and this was about 1 year ago.
they were angy bebacuse they all know that asheera will not come back in guild, and he left only for the MC set; and asheera did't come back.
he said also that he has no problems staying in the same guild with asheera, the problem is only for asheera side.
If i can say a word about other italian player i know that asheera did't spoke with them all, we have also a channel for us and he never use it.
we do Italian Meetings of WoW and people come from many guilds: SoG, Nidaros, Ordine Imperile, Equanimity, Rightouse,KoA,Psycosomatic etc.. but asheera Never come to our meetings, so he can't say that also others italian are angry with finegas, i can say that it is the opposite.
And asheera has not the power to decide who can't come in the guild.
This finegas coming in SoG is not a problem for the guild, but only for Asheera.
Quote from: Ubar;147398decision? what decision? i think and i'm sure that they can stay in the same guild, finegas has not problem, is asheera that has it.
so i can say that if i hate someone and i don't wanna stay in the guild with him the guild had to kick him?... this is what asheera wants?
Yes this is a problem of asheera, but that dont mean that it cant be talked about and discussed. Saying that no disccusion is needed is a bit hasty. I think you might be a bit too biased towards RG2, or maybe its cause you dont like asheera yourself. This however should not influence this dissision.
Had familie duties yesterday, so couldnt attende TS meeting, did you come to a solution?
I, as Sazgul, had a family meeting yesterday so couldnt attend. Soz
No solution reached.
Apparenlty he has tried whispering Asheera with no response from him. I have recommended he PM him direct and enable the track message option - I have also said cc it to me and nay responses. No PM received, I'm not sure he understands what he has to do. Can anyone speak to him please to explain what I suggested?
TL.
So you did a PM TL, or did someone else promise to do that? - Ii cant quite follow your last post. Prolly just me because I wasent there for the meeting on TS.
I can try and catch him tonight in WoW if you'd like.
Finegas said to me that he have send whispers and a PM to asheera to found a solution, and he never recive response to both.
I got a good long talk with Asheera and he stands pretty firmly on his decision to either stay in the guild and finegas goes, or the other way around. He is not leaving the guild immediatly, but gave us time to think about it
I have to say, that i'll take Asheera over whoever (almost) any day, and apparantly that dude did something to Asheera that ****ed him off so much. Normally when one of our guild members says something like that, they get declined before entering the guild.
Personally i'll say kick finegas again, but thats my choice
Quote from: Padding;147902Personally i'll say kick finegas again, but thats my choice
Sorry Padding, but the way I read this the problem is with Asheera. I hav enot had or seen any detail to tell me otherwise yet. I'd be sorry to lose any member, but Finegas seems to have made all the efforts to speak to Asheera, Asheera has so far refused all efforts to even speak and Ubar knows of no problems with Finegas through the Italian group. That's a pretty one-sided problem on the face of it, Asheera's problem to be precise. If Asheera needs to cut off his nose to spite his face then it looks like (with great regret) he'll be leaving.
TL.
QuoteIf Asheera needs to cut off his nose to spite his face then it looks like (with great regret) he'll be leaving.
You wanna kick a member that was in the guild for 1½ year over an initiate.... no wai
The point here being that Finegas would never have been let in the guild, have we know all this beforehand
We knew this beforehand Padding, and nobody said anything about kicking anyone. Unless someone comes to me with sa different account, then it appears from my point of view to be Asheera's problem.
TL.
I'd appreciate if everyone comes with their opinion on this one
We owe them both an answer, and to just let both stay in the guild isnt it
So lets hear what other has to say
Quote from: Padding;147902I have to say, that i'll take Asheera over whoever (almost) any day, and apparantly that dude did something to Asheera that ****ed him off so much. Normally when one of our guild members says something like that, they get declined before entering the guild.
Personally i'll say kick finegas again, but thats my choice
This means you think we shall have to decline all who got 1 or more negativ mention on the applicantion thread from a guild member?
I don't think that have being the normal way.
But why is Asheera having a so big a problem with this guy, he will not be in the same raid-group as him(except from ZG & AQ20 where the possibility is there) and they can just stay away from one another in daily matters.
As long I only have seeing the PM Asheera sent to Bastet and from Ubar's comment from the Italian group, I don't get it why he is so ****ed with Finegas
Come on. Its a game. You cant really hate some one that much that you dont want to be in the same guild as him because you had some arguments in a previous guild.
My ignorelist is full atm so if I should wanna change guild Id have to look very carefully that I dont join a guild where I have a member on my ignore list :narnar:
IMO they should try and resolve their problems. As I see it Finegas wrote that he didnt had anything against Ash so the problem would be Ash's.
Another thing is that SoG is a fast growing guild. If we have to reject anyone who has an issue with a member in the guild Im pretty sure we would reject quite a lot.
Quote from: Padding;147945We owe them both an answer, and to just let both stay in the guild isnt it
Not to pre-judge the issue, but that it of course one of th epossible answers. We do not have to reach a conclusion to remove anyone. But you are right, we do need other people to post here after speaking with both.
TL.
Finegas has indeed send asheera a PM, as i got a BCC of it. So far he informed me that asheera has yet to reply to it. And thus i agree w/ TL, if asheera leaves thats a shame, but every effort has been made by finegas to talk it over.
QuoteThis means you think we shall have to decline all who got 1 or more negativ mention on the applicantion thread from a guild member?
I don't think that have being the normal way.
We already does this when someone talks negative in an application about another dude, then they get declined before even entering, so nothing new there. Standard procedure
Quote from: Padding;147995We already does this when someone talks negative in an application about another dude, then they get declined before even entering, so nothing new there. Standard procedure
If a guy is good geared has got a sponsor and can commit to raid then I think its wrong to reject an applicant on the sole basis that a single member has had an issue with this particular player.
QuoteIf a guy is good geared has got a sponsor and can commit to raid then I think its wrong to reject an applicant on the sole basis that a single member has had an issue with this particular player.
In principle i would agree, but if i had to choose between a dedicated member of SOG and a new initiate, i would take the existing member any day
I would agree, but its a 'generality' rather than a 'rule'. Otherwise yesterday we'd have been accepting people based on whether Spi disliked people or not and a single person should not trigger a decline especially where the application has other support.
The full thread is here (http://www.deadmen.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=15693) and it shows a lot of support for him along with only one negative comment (from Asheera). Finegas knows several people in the guild, is friends with them, they rate him, like his gear and think he is a skilled player. Now when you get that many saying one thing and only one nay-sayer......... there's two sides to every story.
TL.
Quote from: TeaLeaf;148002I would agree, but its a 'generality' rather than a 'rule'. Otherwise yesterday we'd have been accepting people based on whether Spi disliked people or not and a single person should not trigger a decline especially where the application has other support.
The full thread is here (http://www.deadmen.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=15693) and it shows a lot of support for him along with only one negative comment (from Asheera). Finegas knows several people in the guild, is friends with them, they rate him, like his gear and think he is a skilled player. Now when you get that many saying one thing and only one nay-sayer......... there's two sides to every story.
TL.
I so agree on this. But where we are now is awaiting a reply from Ash? Maybe we could get a post from Bastet of what Finegas wrote to Ash?
yeah Bastet if you can put here the PM of Finegas to Asheera, and if it is in italian i can translate for you all.
QuoteHi...
i tried to contact u in game but u don't anwer to my wisp..
I'm really sad that u are angry with me and i don't know why...
I hope u can chance your opinion on me...
Try to contact me...
Finegas
This is the PM i got from him, followed by
QuoteSorry for the BCC private message....
I wanted to send a copy to u of the message i sent to Asheera....
Just for knowing that i'm trying to solve this prob....
cheers
Finegas
a bit later. Its not exectly a highly literature pm, but i think i gets the msg across. I am unaware if a reply has been recieved by finegas since i been playing on a unguilded alt outside 40 man raids over the weekend.
Need to move forward on this issue...
TL, can i urge you to have a nice chat with Asheera and see if you can change his mind. He seems determined on leaving if Finegas stays
Finegas seems like a new guy, so i'd hope that we can get both to stay
I'll try to do this tomorrow. I sent Ash a PM just now to ask about it.
TL.
Do we have any updates about this subject?