Dead Men Walking

New Raid Schedule - Raid Group 2
Silver Oak Guardians
Greatest Guild ever

As you all know we have had a poll about an extra raid day for RG2. This at the time cannot be done, we thank all for your input
..........BUT

We have for some time been working on a new Raid schedule, to ensure RG2 progress in Blackwing Lair.

Alternate Raid Schedule
Blackwing Lair and Molten Core resets Wed.

Thursday - BWL
Monday - BWL

Thursday - MC
Monday - BWL

We will swap between these as see fit.

Why?

• Many RG2 members has most of their gear from Molten Core, hence it wont take as many MC raids to "gear up" the rest/new.
• We need 2 consecutive days in BWL to ensure progress there
• We clear Molten Core in one night.
• We listen to your input
• It's time to move forward to new and harder challenges

We hope you will support this.
We, the Marshalls have been looking forward to telling you all this.

Lets us together conquer Blackwing Lair, we have a great group, hope you all like it,
We do.

Regards
Greatdanes, Oneangel, Siffredi, Ubar and Sazgul

Yey /cheer

great.. :D

looking foward to it..

Quote from: Sazgul;150745Why?

• We listen to your input

Believe it or not Myanmar that type of feedback is given to officers multiple times every day, so it is not the kind of thing that we need a general poll for as the information is already held.  You need to trust the officers to act in the best interests of the raid group and the Guild - which is what they do.  Adding a day to the raid schedule on the other hand is something where officers do not get that same volume of feedback and it is sensible to therefore test the water to confirm availability and numbers.

Quote from: Myanmar;150751I couldn't find it anywhere, I can only see a decision made by the officers, who are probably among the very few that actually have everything they need from Molten Core.

I refer you to the information available on our Guild DKP website for MC/OL/BWL.  You'll find that just as the Marshalls said, the vast majority of members have spent over a thousand DKP and combined with superior AQ20 and ZG equipment now need very little in MC.  This means that what does drop will gear up a new member or member still wanting gear very much faster, so reducing the number of MC raids will not hurt them or slow their acquisition of gear.  So where did you come up with your idea that it was just those greedy Marshalls who made the decision to benefit themselves?  

But thanks for the feedback, it's nice to know people read the announcements.

TL.

Quote from: TeaLeaf;150752So where did you come up with your idea that it was just those greedy Marshalls who made the decision to benefit themselves?

That's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that I can only think of a handful of people in RG2 who have everything they need from MC. The mere fact that not more than, let's say 30% of the items that drop for us in MC get disenchanted, lead me to believe that most people still need gear from there. Now, I am not saying that the only reason why the officers have made that decision is because they have everything they need, I do believe that their main course of action is indeed determined by what they think is best for RG2, but I also believe that the fact that the officers are certainly among the people who have all/almost all they need from MC, will make them more likely to listen to input saying that they want to move on than to people saying that they want to continue MC as we have done so far.
 
 
I would have liked to see a vote, even if it's just for the sake of transparency, cause a regular member like me has no insight into the feedback the officers get via PMs, but hey, if no one else posts their opinions on this, I just gonna assume that I am the vast minority that does not want to sacrifice our weekly MC yet for another BWL day.

Myanmar, i toately agree with you that there are laods of ppl that still need to get some gear frome there inc. me.

-Yea Marshal's do allready got allmoast all of the equipment from MC, but so does the largest part of the raid. Think its good to start spending more time in dicovering new areas in new instances to make progression. Noone has said that we are stopping doing MC runs just cutting it now to get more time available in BWL since ppl dont want or got time to do an additional raiding day.

-Personaly i also would prefer to, lets say do bwl on sunday and monday then MC on thursday's, due to get the neccecery equipment, and dkp. But if the majority votes for "no" then it isent doable, wich i think is a shame. Additional raiding day would do much more for the raid then just cut down time in MC due to new members and those who has left.

:byebye:

This is not just about gear, its also about making progress.

Quote from: Bunfur;150759This is not just about gear, its also about making progress.

totaly agree there bunfur

CHEERS

Thanks to TL for the answer. Very well put.
 
And I'd like to add, Marshalls do our best to benefit the raidgroup. Tho we cannot always satisfy every single individual, but on the otherhand, it's not about the individual, but about our Raid Group 2 as a whole. We fight as a team.
 
We also chose this solution because I cannot remember the last time I DIDNT hear "screw OL - lets continue BWL" - "why not go BWL instead" - "We want BWL", and such, on raidnights.

I was hoping for this decision.. Thought about that solution myself, but didn't get around to post my view.

Would much rather make progression in BWL, than hoping for the last few drops in MC..
AND as stated, we're not quitting MC, just cutting down on time spend there.

Hooray! more BWL!!

Myanmar, keep in mind that some people want items to fit different builds. Like a Paladin who already got his Aurastone Hammer + Offhand but would like OEB so he can solo much easier.
Im waiting for some rare drops which are very hard to get due to not being class specific (Band of Sulfuras + Cauterizing Band) but I would not do Molten Core every time just for such a silly item, its just some digits. In my opinion you're quite finished with MC when you got your tier 1 set, or replacements for it like the ZG set, and got a good weapon from there. Rings, necklaces, trinkets are more or less bonuses and not worth doing Molten Core for, for the half of the time we raid.

About the Marshalls listening to us, well they did. They posted a poll if a 3rd raid day is possible which it isnt yet, so they adjusted to what was wanted the most. Less MC and more BlackWing Lair. That they didnt make a poll out of it, well it's kinda obvious out of the raids and it would be just asking for something that was already known. Good decision lads, I'm looking forward to killing some dragons soon!

About not another raid day,  a big :-(. Didnt see so much no there, but only peeps voting for different days.

About improoved effort in BWL, a big  :-). For me this game is not about the loot (it will come). The fun part is to progress further into the game and conquer new instances and bosses. Hopefully we will master bwl, when we have more time in bwl.

A suggestion for us are to put a combined mc day for both rg1 and rg2 on one specific day (outside rg1 and 2 raiding scedule). just a thought.

secondly - why not always go for bwl. when we dont have a raiding group that have the right class types (exalple 4-5 priest, 5 warr) we can do mc. That have actually happend quite a lot lately.

Quote from: Devout;150795secondly - why not always go for bwl. when we dont have a raiding group that have the right class types (exalple 4-5 priest, 5 warr) we can do mc. That have actually happend quite a lot lately.

Sounds nice, and think its a good idea.

-A m8 and i discussed today about a alternative what could be possible to keep up the progress. Try and find a group that shows up "every" time, and get them into tactics and people get to know eachother and what to do and when to do. MC could be more or less a "who wants to join" instance, due to meny ppl got the gear they want and we still need to gear some up some new members, and that could be their chance. Those who need rest they could take it there. (Dont know if i explain it, how i'm thinking).

I think this new system is awesome.

This actually provide us the equal oportunities as another raid day does.

MC gear isnt really important if you have more days in BWL. More days = More Progress = More kills = More loot. BWL loot > MC loot in most cases so yeah, its a good system. I bet theres probs some RG1 people who dont have everything they could use from MC, but they dont do it all the time.

I hope that we will still do MC regulairly cause i still need my Tier 2 leggings, and i think that once in 2 weeks is not often enough...
 
What about the poll we all voted for another raid day?? Cause if we get another raid day we can still do MC once a week..
 
But happy to see that we will get BWL to farm status soon with this schedule :narnar:
 
Cya ya all on monday :byebye:

If you read the poll you would see that the raid day with most votes is Sunday with 22 which is not even half of RG2. That is why another raid day was not planned.
 
And this new raid schedule is the second best if you care about progress in RG2.
 
So people please focus on the progress and not on the loot. In time you will get your items from MC. As someone stated earlier there would be the possibility of making a concatenated raid group in the weeks where MC is skipped.

Well, it is with mixed feelings i read this.
 
It is nice to know that we might be able to get some progress in BWL... but on the other hand i can also see that it will take about twice as long before i get my full T1-set and my T2 leggings.
 
And please stop saying that this has nothing to do with loot - if it wasnt then why do we keep hearing "Yeaaah - finally" or "yes......8/8 T1".
We all think it is nice to get an upgrade to our gear...i dont see anyone running around chearing about killing Raggy in all "green".
 
Will we still down Onyxia on a regular basis or is that on a two-week schedule too?
 
That is atleast how i feel - but apart from that - progress is nice! :)

Yes and if you think about it - this is a good way to combine progress with the fact that we still need some loot from MC. I think that all agree that we need to progress in BWL, and to do that we need more time there. Since over ½ of RG2 cannot commit to a extra day of raiding we need to do it in another way. Otherwise we might be stuck on Razorgore and Vael for a long time.
Yes the Marshals do have just about all the loot we need from MC, but really i dont care. There is one item i would not miss out the chance on getting and thats Thunderfury. To get that item means that we should be doing MC everytime we can, to at least have a chance on getting the bindings, but then i also think...: would i like a solo item for me meaning that an entire equiped tier1 RG should wait and continiue to raid MC just so i cant fufill this wish??? Id say no, cause after you farm MC long enough it just gets enough, and we need progress otherwise you will see alot more quit game/RG since ppl raid for fun and not to be bored for 2-4 hours...
Plz feel free to give your input on this.
 
(btw vanguish, we will kill raggy every 2. week and that means 2xleggings every 2. week, therefore should there be a fair enough chance on getting ur tier 2. And if there is not attendence for BWL, ofc we have to do alternatives = MC and other.)
 
This decision is not about loot this is about progress, so I would love to hear some argument against that this does not speed up progress instead of just saying i want loot? :D
 
EDIT: Donnie we will kill OL when we can and thats prob. every 5. day since she does not take long to kill. Ofc we like to get our full sets who would not??? Just saying are you willing to let 50+ members holding back progress until all have thier Tier2/Tier1 stuff?

The reason why people cheer when reaching 8/8 T1 is because its a cornerstone. I know it was for me.
 
We are one raid group and not 40 individuals. We put the interest of the raid group first. Cant see why people think this is so bad. You will get T2 instead of T1. How on earth is that bad?

I think its a great idea from the marshalls and really looking forward to it.
And since we still gone do MC there will be atleast one day of relaxing fun run /cheers :devil: :clap: :dribble:

I like the plan/schedule.
 
We still got our MC runs so everyone can get there items from there, we also get more time working on slaying some dragons in BWL.
 
So I will just say i am all happy :-)

I will loved to see another raid day, that was the perfect solution for everyone here to make progress in BWL and to get their final items from MC, pitty that this is only suitable for half of the raid members.
 
But, looking to the poll, sunday was the best day with 22 votes, but tuesday got 18 or so, and other days too, what leaves out that most people want another raiding day, but only the half coincide on this day to be sunday.
 
So, while we all seem to agree on another raiding day (most of us because we dont want to MC run every 2 weeks (what happen if the day MC comes you cannot assist raid?= 1 month for a single MC run)) it seems we will need soem help from Officers to schedule a day for us. That will be fair enough in my opinio.
 
About loot, well, more BWL more Tier2 loot...so that is not the problem. But BWL will be much more easier if people has as much Tier1 set as posible...in my poor case i only have 5/9 pieces.. (4 for felheart and 1 staff of dominance)
 
regards,
 
sao

Quote from: saori;150829I will loved to see another raid day, that was the perfect solution for everyone here to make progress in BWL and to get their final items from MC, pitty that this is only suitable for half of the raid members.
sao

Toatelly agree..

I think its a shame that ppl cant arrage 1 single extra day a week to make a progress.

I personally find it extremely hard to belive that its that hard to make a deal with the wife/husband/girlfriend/boyfriend what so ever, to get an extra day to realy make progress. Personaly i work weekdays to 18:30 - 18: 45 and still have about 50km. to drive home and get rdy, and still havent missed a raid.

Loot: Its 50/50, I belive that the most part of the raid wants to still do MC to get loot even if they dont want to admit it. Why are we doing this? Sure  its great to explorer new places as a team and get new first kills, but if there wasent any reward for it would you be doing it? would you be doing endless whiping and clearing if there wasent anything to get? who knows?

Not all agree on another raid day Saori.
 
I know there have been a lot of discussions going on regarding another raid day. If the Marshalls decide that RG2 will have another raid day they would have to make it optional because of only 22 people can attend on Sundays. And by making it optional the attendance will most likely drop and you would end up by not going to BWL and do MC instead and then you start to mess with the schedules / attendance.

Quote from: Yrthal;150840Toatelly agree..
 
I think its a shame that ppl cant arrage 1 single extra day a week to make a progress.
 
I personally find it extremely hard to belive that its that hard to make a deal with the wife/husband/girlfriend/boyfriend what so ever, to get an extra day to realy make progress. Personaly i work weekdays to 18:30 - 18: 45 and still have about 50km. to drive home and get rdy, and still havent missed a raid.
 
Loot: Its 50/50, I belive that the most part of the raid wants to still do MC to get loot even if they dont want to admit it. Why are we doing this? Sure its great to explorer new places as a team and get new first kills, but if there wasent any reward for it would you be doing it? would you be doing endless whiping and clearing if there wasent anything to get? who knows?

For me its hard enough to find room to raid 2 days a week. I have a GF, friends, work and family. I recently found me in a situation where I had lost many friends and my social life was in pieces. I dont want to sacrifice my life for a computer game. The only reason I can raid now is because my GF is working evening shifts so I can only see her in the weekends. If another raid day is agreed then it will most likely be Sunday and I simply cant raid that day.

I know others have mentioned it, and perhaps it's possible. Could we try putting up MC as an "open raid" like ZG and AQ? I know this might make trouble with people being saved to the instance, but could we work out a system? It could be a way to gear up both mains that want "that final last item" and get your alt up and go on Tier 1. You think MC is too tough for a "casual" ZG style run? We could set some sort of requirements to join. Like 80 unbuffed fire resist or some such.

Quote from: Yrthal;150840I think its a shame that ppl cant arrage 1 single extra day a week to make a progress.

I personally find it extremely hard to belive that its that hard to make a deal with the wife/husband/girlfriend/boyfriend what so ever, to get an extra day to realy make progress.

Seriously Sabina, you can't really mean that it's a shame that people actually prioritize RL :blink:
What is asked here, is for folks to increase their raiding time with aprox. 50%, which is quite much if you already have a hectic week.  Try to at least have some respece and understanding for those who don't have the opportunity to sacrifice as much time for WoW as you (and others) might have...

Quote from: Nefrion;150845For me its hard enough to find room to raid 2 days a week. I have a GF, friends, work and family. I recently found me in a situation where I had lost many friends and my social life was in pieces. I dont want to sacrifice my life for a computer game. The only reason I can raid now is because my GF is working evening shifts so I can only see her in the weekends. If another raid day is agreed then it will most likely be Sunday and I simply cant raid that day.

I also toately respect that. and i can se how that can be a problem.. but who is saying that it has to be sunday? and if its sunday then let that be MC and Monday's and thursdays can be BWL, then u dont got to attend MC if u allready got those parts and still attend those "normal" raid days. That way ppl can choose how ever they got time or not and if they find a space to join once or twice then were back to that what has been dicedid allready just with a oppurtunity for those who needs gear and "the final item" to get it.

Threbrilith (http://www.deadmen.co.uk/forum/member.php?u=869) :

Ofc if ppl just cant sacrefice more days that fair enough, but still its 4 hrs and ints in the evening. and still if the additonal day is MC then the most part can choose themselves as i have written above.

I agree with whatever the marshalls decide. But i would like to have an additional day, as prop some others. But if that isen't possible then, bad luck

Well Im NOT in for the loot, but in for the progress. I think this new solution are very good (next after another raid day, wich I dont understand why we cant manage since we got only 7 no).
 
The important thing here are that the group combined are good enough to prosper in BWL, and that I think are a big yes. Remember as someone earlier stated, Almost all loot in BWL are better than MC loot. I dont have the leggins from rag (hope I get it), but its way better that we get furter in bwl.
 
Looking forward to finally nail vael tonite^^

This was the only obvious alternative to a third raid day that would provide us with more time for progression in BWL. I can't say that I'm surprised with this discission.
 
I do understand that some people have their reservations regarding this. But like stated before I'm convinced that the majority will agree with this change. Whether or not this is a wise discission and if I agree with this change myself...; well I'll leave that in the middle :tongue: .
 
 

Quote from: Devout;150795A suggestion for us are to put a combined mc day for both rg1 and rg2 on one specific day (outside rg1 and 2 raiding scedule). just a thought.
 
secondly - why not always go for bwl. when we dont have a raiding group that have the right class types (exalple 4-5 priest, 5 warr) we can do mc. That have actually happend quite a lot lately.

I've been thinking about something similair as well. The new shedule will only give RG2 the possibility to progress every other week. Keeping in mind that the expansion will arrive in two months time; that would give us about 4 to 5 'two day weeks' (and a couple more because we need a few weeks to get to level 70).
 
I'd suggest too focus on BWL alone if progression is what you want. MC can be sheduled on a seperate day, on with both raid groups don't raid. There are enough defenders that still need stuff from there and a couple guardians too. Filling up an MC raid shouldn't be all that hard; we can always take some soldiers along (which they will probably enjoy as well :happy: ). This way we don't have to cut back on MC, if you still need stuff from there you can get it as fast as always. (Maybe we should shedule this 'MC day' on a different 'non raiding day' every week, so we won't exclude people that can't come on a specific day?). This would effectively give us another raiding day, but only to those who wish it.
 
Anyway, just a thought, it may be worth considering.

On a purely personal note, I would love to see the occasional "open" raid in MC, this is because I want to do the bigger raids and upgrade my kit same as everyone but it is very difficult for me to guarentee attendance to a raid. this is something I am working on, big problem is that there is no chance I can regularly attend mondays (winter darts legue) and at the moment i can not normally attend wednesdays (still doing the summer darts legue as well!!!)

Quote from: sheepy;150868I would love to see the occasional "open" raid in MC, ........this is something I am working on.

So are we.  There is an Officer discussion about this as part of our continual review of 'where we're going' as a Guild.  It may not happen, but it is something we consider as part of our overall strategy for SoG's future.

TL.

wow that was long reading...
first of all whatever officers do there allways will be happy and unhappy people, so imho it's best to keep the majority happy, atleast.:happy:
 
In the poll section there was only 25 or so that had voted (correct me if I'm wrong) and the majority voted for an extra day. and I'm truly disappointed that only because 7 voted NO the rest shouldn't get an extra day:thumbsdown:
so here's my suggestion to this:
Why not make the extra raid day for MC/OL only and keep monday and thursdays for BWL, like this all those who like to still raid MC will get their chance. If they can't well it's too bad for them. Life isn't all about wow you know:narnar:
Those who cannot still have the "once in 2 weeks" MC in normal raid days.
 
Edit: Actualy now that I counted it there was +40 people that voted 7 / 40 voted NO

You guys dont read the poll right. Its not about people dont wanting an extra day its about people not wanting the SAME day.

7 ppl voted no, true, 40 ppl voted for another day, also true, but between the 40 there was no day that got quite high enough to actualy be viable as a raid day, cause the 40 are spread all over the place making the day unviable.

Peeps may agree on only one day if we now only have two days to agree on. I votet only for sunday as that are the day that I really really want to be the extra day. But I shure will meet on thuseday if that where the day. Maybe others thinks the same, maybe.

Quote from: Devout;151040Peeps may agree on only one day if we now only have two days to agree on.

Why to you think it was an option from the beginning to place more than one vote?  So that people could check all the days they possibly could make it...  One more poll shouldn't change the way people already have voted.

:withstupid:

TL.

well it was just an suggestion:tongue:

Sorry hope I'm not re-iterating old points as I just can't be bothered to read 5 pages to make 1 post hehe!

I'm concerned about the newer guildies, now I'm sure some of them are potentially better players than I am and I'm not commenting on their actual potential here. But right now many could do with some MC training and MC kit.

It is very well putting fresh players into the Wipe City that BWL is (we're making progress - oh yes, but it's not as if we didn't wipe 4 or 5 times on Razor tonight), but this has the potential to demoralise many of them in the group's raid ability.

There was some quite serious concern in the pally channel earlier, we don't doubt RG2 can make progress in BWL what we felt is that with more MC training RG2 could do it without wiping nearly quite so often (it really is the norm to wipe alot at the moment and we still have new members). We also had a quick rant about the equipment that some people have decided is appropriate for BWL (inc older players who should know better), this is something I would like to see the officers do something about and only that more MC can really help.

And then yes, because someone will undoubtedly point out I do have a bias: I'm still missing my LB chestguard and this has nothing to do with the point I'm making now. My bias does not enter this argument.

If we're to progress faster cutting out an MC night is not the answer in my personal opinion right now, the addition of an extra BWL night would be the way forward.

Anyways now my whine-adin rant is over I hope everyone can forgive me (again :blush2:)


Shep

it seems like another nice move from the marshalls :biggrin:
and sounds damn nice too

Quote from: Sheperdbook;151592But right now many could do with some MC training and MC kit.

the addition of an extra BWL night would be the way forward.

Shep

Those are fair points Shep, but the addition of a night to the existing raid schedule is something that insufficient members said they could do, hence the next best thing is to tweak the raid schedule to give you that needed time in BWL - and it seems like its starting to pay off too!

As for MC, RG2 has not given up on MC just reduced slightly the rate at which we raid that instance.  This should not cause too much of a problem as a single run will gear up someone who has not raided before fairly quickly as almost all MC items drop a long way down the DKP table to those new members at the bottom.  RG2 even disenchanted a drop from Ragnaros last time out!

There are also some other ideas in the pipeline (dependent upon having RG2's raid nights as Tuesday/Thur not Mon/Thur) so watch this space for further developements if RG2 approve such a move.

However the current adjustment to the schedule is the only viable move at the moment given members' inability to add an additional day to the schedule.

TL.

I appreciate that TL and I now realise that RG2 is in a complicated position.


Shep