Dead Men Walking

Just thought it deserved a new thread :smile:

Quote from: Akall;152312Official Talents/Spell Released by Blizzard!!
 
Not so bad imo... hoping we'll get some more love from Blizzard before the expansion is launched.
 
Talents (http://www.wow-europe.com/en/info/underdev/burningcrusade/druid/talents.html)
 
Spells (http://www.wow-europe.com/en/info/underdev/burningcrusade/druid/spells.html)

And people wonder how he reaches 1000 posts :blink:

Quote from: Padding;152324And people wonder how he reaches 1000 posts :blink:

How rude of  you :narnar:
Since the title on the previous topic was "BC - Talents/Spell (false info)", I thought it was very appropriate to create a new thread for it.  And also to get a fresh start on the discussion around the topic!

But thanks for making a post I had to reply to :norty:

Well actually I see love form blizzard:
 
Lot of + damage and +mana/5 sec in balance;
 
Imp. Leader of the Pack in Feral;
 
Some nice tweaks to Resto Talents;
 
Finally something in both Balance & Feral trees in every tree that makes druids a good choice for PVE raids.

Currently ending up with this (http://www.wow-europe.com/en/info/underdev/burningcrusade/druid/talents.html?0000000000000000000000505250130300010550005005450300031000000000). Can't really find something I like yet :g:
Ment as a raid/pvp build for me. With a lean towards Teddy form and still the most important Resto talents.

Think I'll at least start out with something like this (http://www.wow-europe.com/en/info/underdev/burningcrusade/druid/talents.html?0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000050550350531522001000).  Have only placed out the resto talents at this time, cause I'll need a bit more time to put some points in feral (or balance).  But the think I notice, is that I actually end up with less points in resto than I have now...
Other than Empowered Touch, I wasn't too impressed by the new resto spells.  But I have to add that I'm pleased that they are removing the requirement to ha Insectswarm to be able to get Gift of Nature :)

And about the new spells:

QuoteFlight Form (Shapeshift)    
Requires Level 68
498 Mana
3 sec cast
Transforms the Druid into a flight form, increasing movement speed by 60% and allowing you to fly. Can only use this form in Outland.

The act of shapeshifting frees the caster of Polymorph and Movement Impairing effects.

THAT'S GONNA BE SOOO COOL :yahoo:

Many complain over druids flightform only being 60%, but WHAT IF Y OU CAN ATTACK IN IT? fly down PEWPEWPPEPWPW MOONFARE! PEPWPEWPPWP fly out of range! you can even gank the ones you come in range when they're on their drakes! PEWPEW :DDDD

Have been playing a bit more around with the new talents, and I think this  (http://www.wow-europe.com/en/info/underdev/burningcrusade/druid/talents.html?0000000000000000000000505200130302013500000050540350001502001000)might be an ok healing/resto combination.  Since healing is what I love, I still think I want to keep most of my points there, but as a combination of that I'm not too improved by the new resto talents, and also that I think being able to do more than just healing will be more important in the expantion, I think this is a build that can suit me pretty well.

But this should be said: I'm a complete n00b when it comes to feral, so I would really like some input from some of the more experienced feral druids in the guild on what could be good, what could be bad and so on :)

Actually bob, the build you have there, is pretty nice. I might consider it myself actually. But only for pure raiding I guess,

Still looking at some builds depending on how ill play my druid, but i came to these so far:
 
Full healing druid:
http://www.wow-europe.com/en/info/underdev/burningcrusade/druid/talents.html?5103053300003030000000000000000000000000000050050350501502031000 (http://www.wow-europe.com/en/info/underdev/burningcrusade/druid/talents.html?5103053300003030000000000000000000000000000050050350501502031000)
 
Full feral druid:
http://www.wow-europe.com/en/info/underdev/burningcrusade/druid/talents.html?5000050000000000000000505250130302210550105105000000000000000000 (http://www.wow-europe.com/en/info/underdev/burningcrusade/druid/talents.html?5000050000000000000000505250130302210550105105000000000000000000)

Hybrid feral/healing:
http://www.wow-europe.com/en/info/underdev/burningcrusade/druid/talents.html?0000000000000000000000505050130302210550000005050350501000000000 (http://www.wow-europe.com/en/info/underdev/burningcrusade/druid/talents.html?0000000000000000000000505050130302210550000005050350501000000000)

or maybe http://www.wow-europe.com/en/info/underdev/burningcrusade/druid/talents.html?5003053310000130000000505050130302210550000000000000000000000000 (http://www.wow-europe.com/en/info/underdev/burningcrusade/druid/talents.html?5003053310000130000000505050130302210550000000000000000000000000) [/COLOR]

PART1 (look for part 2 below)
 
I've just about tried every possible build in my WoW career, but Feral attracted me the most. I kind of specialized in the bear tanking stuff, so I'll stick to a review of those abilities and talents.
 
 
Feral abilities:
 
Maim
Finally a stun in cat form. To bad it's not very usefull. Who is going to spend combo points on a stun that breaks as soon as someone touches your target. Nice for healing up mid fight, but nothing more. I don't think I'll use this very often.
 
Lacerate
It says "causes high amount of threat" on the tooltip. Finally a 'flat' aggro generation ability. But my question is, how high is high? A properly geared and specced feral druid (with raid buffs) will cause 2500 threat per maul on average. However this doesn't take a mob's armor into account yet. Which will be about 30% for raid bosses after they're sundered and faerie fired. Because this is a on next attack ability it's usefullness highly depends on the amount of threat it will generate. For example the warrior's ability sunder armor causes 377 threat (after the +145% from defencive stance), lacerate's innitiate threat may not be much higher then that. If it doesn't generate more then 1500 flat threat excluding the damage it causes it's a pointless ability. Also because it has a lot higher rage cost (with talents 13 for lacerate vs 7 for maul with the idol of brutality). On the other hand, if this became an instant ability it would rock.
 
Flight form
Looks pretty cool of first sight, untill you see it's only as fast a regular mount :thumbsdownsmileyani . So well still end up getting a 'proper' flying mount.
 
 
Feral talents:
 
Nurturing Instinct
I'm not really convinced by this talent. It might be usefull in PvP just for healing yourself, since feral gear doesn't have much +healing on it. But apart from that, I don't see any use for having this.
 
Primal Tenacity
The idea is nice, but it would have been more usefull if this was a little higher, 15% is not much, nice enough for
PvP vs locks and rouges for example. But it's not high enough to rely on in PvE encounters.
 
Survival of the Fittest
This talent is incredible for bear tanks! Due to the lacking +defense gear druids always had a problem with crits, this was our greatest disadvantage compared to a prot tank. 5% is the average crit rate vs an equal level mob, so with this talent we are very close to avoiding all crits vs boss mobs as well, we only need 15+def. This talent places bear tanks on nearly equal footing with warriors. 5% to all stats is also a nice bonus.
 
EDIT: Look below for the second part of my post, somehow it dissappeared after posting it last time.

Quote from: Sandrion;152432Lacerate
It says "causes high amount of threat" on the tooltip. Finally a 'flat' aggro generation ability. But my question is, how high is high? A properly geared and specced feral druid (with raid buffs) will cause 2500 threat per maul on average. However this doesn't take a mob's armor into account yet. Which will be about 30% for raid bosses after they're sundered and faerie fired. Because this is a on next attack ability it's usefullness highly depends on the amount of threat it will generate. For example the warrior's ability sunder armor causes 377 threat (after the +145% from defencive stance), lacerate's innitiate threat may not be much higher then that. If it doesn't generate more then 1500 flat threat excluding the damage it causes it's a pointless ability. Also because it has a lot higher rage cost (with talents 13 for lacerate vs 7 for maul with the idol of brutality). On the other hand, if this became an instant ability it would rock.

Saw a post earlyer that they will make this one instant, so you can choose between swipe and this. Not sure how acurate info is though.

Quote from: Bastet;152441Saw a post earlyer that they will make this one instant, so you can choose between swipe and this. Not sure how acurate info is though.

That would be asome; but it does worry me a bit :unsure: since that will mean we will be able to generate a truely insane amount of threat.
 
I can already see an upcoming competition between prot warriors and bear tanks about who is the better choice for every encounter. In terms of damage reduction the two classes will be very close (the warriors will probably still have a slight advantage). In terms of aggro the druid has always been ahead; if that gap becomes even greater ....

PART 2
 
For some reason half my post dissappeared, here is the rest:
 
Improved Leader of the Pack
This is utterly pointless to have. Lets say that an average part member has 5000 health in the expansion, 2% of 5000 health is only 100. So you get critted for a shitload of damage and you regen 100 HP, whoohoo now that's really impressive :thumbsdownsmileyani . Also, if you have Survival of the Fittest it doesn't even work on yourself at all.
 
Predatory instincts
Lets say your crit chance is 25% in forms, then this talent will give you a 3.75% damage increase. It's not very good. 5 points in Natural Weapons will give you 10%, which is considerably more. I don't know what to think of the AoE avoidance.
 
Mangle
Well it depends if this is good or not.
-What is the rage/energy cost?
-Is it instant or on next attack?
-How much threat does it generate in bear form?
I can't really comment on it until I get some more info about it.
 
Builds:
Bear tank
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/bc-druid/talents.html?0140050010000000000000505050132302210550105005000000000000000000
Apart from the obvious talents, pick the ones that maximize damage for threat.
 
Feral DPS (Cat)
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/bc-druid/talents.html?014005301000000000000050005113232021055010510500000
Maximum DPS talents. Additionally I picked Natural Shapeshifter, so you can 'power shift' more often.
 
Semi-sensible raid build
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/bc-druid/talents.html?0000000000000000000000500150132302210550100055500300501000000000
For healing I prefer to have -0.5 cast time on HT (it's slow enough already), reflection (bit of mana regen), NS (live saver) and HotW (+20% int). Apart from that, pick the 'fun' talents that allow you to tank / DPS a bit as well.
 
Healing
I haven't found a build I like yet. What you can do is either get moonglow from the balance tree of HotW from the feral tree; depending on how many points you have left and if you want to go for endurance or a big mana pool. The new Restro talents are not that impressive imo. Especially the tree form, since you can't cast HT in that form.
 
Balance
Well no idea really. I've been balance for a couple a while a couple of patches ago, but didn't like it very much. That part of the druid still 'feels' a bit 'weaker' then the rest.
 
I'm not sure what kind of spec I'm gonna take. Feral / bear for sure, but I'm not sure about how many points I'm gonna put in Restro / balance. NS is always nice to have.
 
I do have one question regarding the specs posted above. I see most of you get the Feral instinct talent for 15% more threat (only 11.5 effectively really, since you go from 130% to 145%). I'd like to point out that bears already generate a shitload of threat, even without the talent. Threat generation should not really be a problem, unless you're tanking in 'unsuitable' gear (like healing gear). Personally I'd only take it if you intent to spec for bear tanking.

I just found out that Mangle is an instant ability in both bear and cat form. It will pressumable be the highest DPS skill in both forms. No word on rage/energy cost and how much threat it generates yet.
 
It may be nice to have as bear if it turns out that lacerate doesn't become an instant ability. Perfect as a rage dump or even as primary threat generation ability if it has the 175% multiplier attached to it like maul and swipe do.

Quote from: Bastet;152441Saw a post earlyer that they will make this one instant, so you can choose between swipe and this. Not sure how acurate info is though.

It has been confirmed by the Blizz's lead designer himself. Lacerate is an instant ability that does not reset the swing timer. This is great news :clap: , now every class can nuke their behind off without having to worry about pulling aggro. Let the wars between prot warriors and bear tanks begin :narnar: .
 
You can view the post here: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=28355629&pageNo=8#147

Imo Imp. Leader of the Pack is not so bad, as Sandrion said the ammount healed is not much but is always good to have some "free" healing when melee/hunters makes crits, it would help a bit healers to keep up rogues, dps warriors and hunters.
 
I was thinking of:
 
Feral DPS/Healing (http://www.wow-europe.com/en/info/underdev/burningcrusade/druid/talents.html?0000000000000000000000550002032320210500000050500350501501001000)
 
Full Balance (http://www.wow-europe.com/en/info/underdev/burningcrusade/druid/talents.html?5000503002553135231050000000000000000000000050500300000000000000)
 
Healing (http://www.wow-europe.com/en/info/underdev/burningcrusade/druid/talents.html?0140000000000000000000000000000000000000000050550350531522531051)
 
I think I'll go for Full Balance for levelling up to 70.

5000 hp rogue, 2% is 100 hp every 6 seconds, for 3 talents, its a total waste

Oops, I misread the tooltip of imp LotP, it's when you crit, not when you get critted. I thought it was a even more useless copy of bloodcraze :biggrin: .
 
But yes, it's free healing although the amount is not really impressive (17HP per second max if you have 5k HP), it might be somewhat usefull for classes that crit a lot like rouges. But then again, in a 10/25 man raid, how often will you be in a group with more then two rouges while you are in a feral form?

I've just been playing around with the balance tree a bit and I think it's about as good as full restro for healing.
 
This is what I came up with: http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/bc-druid/talents.html?5003500002553130230000000000000000000000000050500320531000000000 (http://www.wow-europe.com/en/info/underdev/burningcrusade/druid/talents.html?5003500002553130230000000000000000000000000050500320531000000000)
 
You will be able to get the most important restro spells, but some talents in the balance tree as just as good (or even better) then the lower tier restro ones when it comes to healing power.
 
Gift of Nature vs Moonglow. Personally I don't think Gift of Nature is not very good, since it only effects base spell damage. Most of the time you're using low rank spells anyway. For HT rank 4 it will give you about 40 +healing, which isn't that much. Moonglow will give you -9% mana cost, so in terms of HP/mana this talent will (most probably) make your healing spells more effective then Gift of Nature. Additionally it will increase your damage with balance spells as well, so this talent wins hands down.
 
Lunar Guidance vs Empowered Touch. If you got 500 +healing and 400 intellect these spells are equal. However Lunar Guidance will influence all your spells.
 
Living Spirit vs Dreamstate. Well no competition here, Dreamstate all the way. Especially if you're a HT spammer and are within the 5 second rule most of the time. But even during normal regening, I think Dreamstate will give you more mana/sec the Living Spirit will.
 
The only real downside is that you lose Swiftmend and can't reach Empowered Rejuvenation (a spell that doesn't seem all that impressive anyway). Nor can you get the tree form, whos use is also very doubtfull since it restricts you from using HT and cures.
 
If you really love balance but want to be good at healing as well, this is the way to go imo. There is not reason anymore to spec full restro to be a 'proper' healer.
 
Like I said before, I'm not a fan of balance. But this might make some people really happy :smile: .

Just got to give you that Sandion: I really like those analysis you're pooring out here :D

I don't have a head myself to get such a good overview over the different build and what really differes the various talents from eachother.  I kind of manage to get the big picture, but not by far this much details!

Keep it coming :)


Btw, any thoughts perhaps on the build I mentioned in a previous post?

Quote from: Threbrilith;152349Have been playing a bit more around with the new talents, and I think this  (http://www.wow-europe.com/en/info/underdev/burningcrusade/druid/talents.html?0000000000000000000000505200130302013500000050540350001502001000)might be an ok healing/resto combination. Since healing is what I love, I still think I want to keep most of my points there, but as a combination of that I'm not too improved by the new resto talents, and also that I think being able to do more than just healing will be more important in the expantion, I think this is a build that can suit me pretty well.

But this should be said: I'm a complete n00b when it comes to feral, so I would really like some input from some of the more experienced feral druids in the guild on what could be good, what could be bad and so on :)

Well regarding that spec Bob. It really depends on what you want to do. Are you looking for a healer/hybrid PvE combo or are you considering feral to improve your PvP performance?
 
I would however want to highlight the following things:
 
Feral Instinct
Since it has been confirmed that both lacerate and mangle will be instant abilities (which seems a bit overpowered if you ask me) there is no need for this talent. You'll generate more then enough threat. I'd only take this one if you consider becoming a bear tank.
 
Nurturing Instinct
The only use I see for this one is in PvP, when you're lacking +healing. I don't think this is much use in a PvE environment. But then again, it really depends on what you want to do.
 
Nature's focus
This one is only usefull when you're getting hit. In instances you usually have a tank that's taking the hits for you; you're not supposed to get interrupted. When you do get hit you either die or go to bear form and hope someone gets that mob of you (at least that's what I do most of the time). Usefull in PvP, but for PvE I'd pick Tranquil Spirit in favor of this talent.
 
But apart from that :thumb: .

They seriously need to buff the druids pvp. If you look at others classes for example rogues/mages/shamans. I think we are clearly underpowered, the best option imo is to take a balance guild and go spam wrath. They should buff feral a lot. For example, in bg.. i got 1 hitted by a shaman, attacking me for 3x1100 windfury crit and a frost shock crit for 1200. I know it's just a one moment, but druids aren't that good in feral pvp unless you are full of naxx items.

What do you other druids think of this?

Oh and btw, i'll definetly spend some balance points in BC, that +healing as a % of your intellect rocks :)!

Quote from: Sandrion;152694

Thanks alot Sandrio, lots of good stuff in that post for me :)

First of all: it is at this time a bit har to say what I really want to do at the expantion, e.g. based on how our role as a hybrid class will have to be in the new 25-man raids.
My main goal is to be able to retain my role as a main healer in raids, but also be able to step in and do some minor feral stuff if needed.  I also want to be capable to run as a main tank in smaller instance runs (5-mans, as today for instance Strat and Scholo - don't know what will be similar to these at lvl70).

Feral Instinct
I see your points about this not being necessary when it comes to generate rage, thus these points can be spent in other places (think I'll perhaps concider putting back points in Tranquil Spirit (don't know why I didn't take TS in the first place, think I just forgot it, cause this is a nice talent for resto), and also some in Furor.
The only think I think perhaps can be of value from Feral Instinct is the "reduces the chance enemies have to detect you while Prowling".  This because from 60 to 70 there'll be lots of quest 'n stuff to do for leveling, most likely also that is possible to solo, and than such a talent could perhaps be nice to have to be able to sneak past mobs and solo stuff you normally would need a group for?


Nurturing Instinct
I'm not planning on doing much PvP, so I might reconcider these points here.  But on the other hand, if you are in such a situation that you're getting hit by some mob, it's really nice to improve your chance to get in an extra heal to give the tank some extra time to take the mob of you.
But I'll have to think a bit more about this one.


I did some more mixing with the talents, and ended up with something like this (http://www.wow-europe.com/en/info/underdev/burningcrusade/druid/talents.html?0000000000000000000000500250131302210500000050500350401502001000).

The only thing that perhaps could be discusses, is if I perhaps should change the 5 points from imp. MotW and put 'em in Furor instead.  It will be good for me as a solo player, but it won't benefit the raid much <_<

Well you only need one druid with imp MotW really, just supply em with reagents and everyone's happy :narnar: . The build I have right now is the first one with furor in it and I love it (to bad they broke it twice). I'll definately get it again in my BC build.
 
The stealth reduction works in the following way: it'll raise your stealth 'level' by one. So if you're level 70 with 5 points in that talent, for creatures you'll be like a stealthed level 75 player, so indeed harder to detect. The rouge talent thingy works the same way. I've never had a problem with stealth, so I won't take it for those purposes; but that's just my personal taste.
 
 
Regarding PvP. Druids do ok in duels. We pretty much own warriors; fights vs tier 2+ / grand marshall like geared warriors are the most fun. Those are always pretty close even if you have blue gear (yes, I have screenies to prove it :norty: ). But our biggest problem is, druids rely on survival for winning fights and we can not to counter burst damage, nor do we have we got any reliable ability to diss out burst damage ourselfs. This will not change; however as you can see on the new PvP sets every class will get a shitload of stamina on their sets, essencially making fights longer thus giving us a better change to survive. Additionally all CC abilities will also be considerably shorter in PvP. Greatly reducing the use of fear for example. There is still hope for us druids in PvP :smile: .

Dunno if it has already been posted somewhere but Kalgan, a Blizzard designer, explained how Lifebloom works:
 

QuoteCurrently, Lifebloom gains a little more than half of your +healing bonus over the course of the HoT, and also gains a bit more then 40% of the bonus at the end (on the "healing bomb" part of it).
 
To answer your other question, regrowth can be used in Tree form.

And how Maim and Lacerate will work
 

QuoteAs far as the concerns with Maim breaking on taking bleed damage, we're currently planning on getting it to work such that periodic damage (bleeds, dots, etc) don't break the effect.
{...}
Lacerate is an instant attack that does not reset the swing timer.

Quote from: Guidei;152709They seriously need to buff the druids pvp. If you look at others classes for example rogues/mages/shamans. I think we are clearly underpowered, the best option imo is to take a balance guild and go spam wrath. They should buff feral a lot. For example, in bg.. i got 1 hitted by a shaman, attacking me for 3x1100 windfury crit and a frost shock crit for 1200. I know it's just a one moment, but druids aren't that good in feral pvp unless you are full of naxx items.
 
What do you other druids think of this?
 
Oh and btw, i'll definetly spend some balance points in BC, that +healing as a % of your intellect rocks :)!

I think druids allready got enough of a buff w/ the current set of skills (theorycraft on the new 41 feral shows it to be about twice/three times as powerfull at level 60 then maul). The problem is not the druids dmg, its every1 elses. And AQ40 gear is better for druids then what you can find in naxx cept for 2 items if druid official forums is anything to go by (items are end of dreams and ghoul skin tunic).

Quote from: Bastet;152822And AQ40 gear is better for druids then what you can find in naxx cept for 2 items if druid official forums is anything to go by (items are end of dreams and ghoul skin tunic).

You forgot the Leggings of Apocalypse (http://www.thottbot.com/?i=53970) from the four horseman. For feral Blessed Qiraji War Hammer (http://www.thottbot.com/?i=52927) is just as good as The End of Dreams (http://www.thottbot.com/?i=53873) btw. With Blessing of Kings Blessed Qiraji War Hammer (http://www.thottbot.com/?i=52927) even wins DPS wise :narnar: .

Just found a funny post about our flying form in the expansion.
Hint: It involves air strikes :roflmao: .
 
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html;jsessionid=1A6F3BA08F1309DD32F67D8BFA742D96?topicId=28546648&sid=1#0

That is just sweeet :roflmao:

We're gonna pwn everything :devil:

Nice tattic, I'll try that as soon as I'll reach lvl 68 :boxing: :roflmao:

QuoteWe’re not planning to allow flight form to be cast while in combat. The main use of flight form will be for travel, and it gives druids a head start on their entry into the realm of flight, as it’s obtained at level 68 while everyone else will have to wait until level 70.

It will still allow for some amount of escape potential if used preemptively or after using travel form to gain enough distance, but we purposefully want to avoid some of the griefing uses already being discussed.

We think that once you get into Outland and try it you’ll see the various uses and have fun with it; we just aren’t intending it to play a part in combat situations.

:angry:
 
Main use for travel? Then give us more than 60% speed why should we have a speed penalization if we can't use the form in combat? They should meke it like a normal flying mount reachable by a questline like paladins/warlok mounts.

Quote from: Akall;154442:angry:
 
Main use for travel? Then give us more than 60% speed why should we have a speed penalization if we can't use the form in combat? They should meke it like a normal flying mount reachable by a questline like paladins/warlok mounts.

Yepp, that would be to prefer <_<

This is just a wild guess, haven't heard any rumors or anything, but couldn't it still be possible that we'll get a quest at lvl70, to kind of "improve" the flight  form so that it will reach the speed of a normal flying mount?

Yep, theres a massive uproar about that one on the official forums, but not too botherd about it. What worries me is the bit where it says you can still use it to reach dungeons ahead of the rest of the players as an excuse to make it right. But then again, what would a druid do, alone, 2 level before he should be there, in a 5-25 man instance?:doh:
 
Poor reasoning.

Some nice news at least, the BC druid talents are being twaked and reviewed.
 

QuoteOne Druid talent change did not make the cut-off time for the website update, so we are elaborating here about the change. This specific update should be reflected on the website early next week.

'Your Leader of the Pack ability also causes affected targets to have a 100% chance to heal themselves for 2/4/6% (Rank Increments) of their total health when they critically hit with a melee or ranged attack. The healing effect cannot occur more than once every 6 sec.'

:smile:
 
Now 6% is not a lot but as I always stated all 'free healings' are welcome during a raids.

6% would indeed make it a bit more viable. It would mean you will heal all damage dealers in your party for +/- 50HP/sec maximum. But at level 70 it will probably be even less powerfull then half a rejuv, but then distributed among your entire group. I'm still not too impressed by this talent.
 
And if they chance bird form to OOC only it will be completely pointless to have. It already has a 3 sec cast time; it's not like we're gonna gank someone and fly off <_< . The only benefit I can think of is that you can start a druid only raid on Illidan at level 68, but the chances of that succeeding are virtually zero.

Quote from: Sandrion;154618It already has a 3 sec cast time.

Is an instant cast m8 :biggrin:

I like the leader of the pack buff.
 
BUT HAVE YOU SEEN THE WARLOCK LOVE?I MEAN! % CHANCE FOR INSTANT SEPLLS ON HIT?

Quote from: Akall;154643Is an instant cast m8 :biggrin:

Hmm, I must be getting old :narnar: . I could have sworn it was a 3 sec cast :g: .
 
Anyway there is some nice info about our flying form:
 

Quote from: BlizzardDruids will gain the flying mount riding skill with their form in the same way that warlocks and paladins gain riding skills with their summonable mounts. Druids will end up paying less for their epic flying mounts than anyone else

This is a BIG GOOD news... :yahoo:
 
At least we will not have to pay the riding skill...I never took the epic mount so I'm stuck @ 75 riding skill :biggrin:
 
 
BIG News on flying form and mounts:
 

QuoteThe current flight form speed is the same as general flying mount speeds.

Well if this is the case fligh form will be even more useful than travel form.

All classes have had their talent preview revealed, looking @ them I can only say that we need more love, not a barov pesant caller II in balance and a kill me form in resto...:sad: :angry:

When I first saw them I wasn't very impressed either. But I have to say the feral and balance stuff looks pretty good, restro doesn't on the other hand. Lifebloom is very nice though.

Quote from: BlizzardWe’ve made some additional changes to the talent calculators today. In addition to changing many of the icons, we’ve also made the following changes:
 
(Hunter) Aimed Shot - Rank 7 not listed, 370 mana, 870 damage.
(Druid) Leader of the Pack - Increases crit % by 5, increased from 3.
(Druid) Moonkin Form - Increases spell crit % by 5, increased from 3.
 
Check back soon for further updates.

keeping the thread updated...

LOTP = 5% crit, 1 TP, shares with party
Sharp claws = 6% crit, 3 TP, doesnt share with party
 
Now appart from the lack of nude chicks, whats wrong with that picture?

Quote from: Bastet;155845Now appart from the lack of nude chicks, whats wrong with that picture?

Nothing, we finally have some decent auras...still I would like naked chicks :D

Breaking News :biggrin:
 

Quote from: Nethaera @ US BoardsOh sure, post about it here before I can! See if I care! ;)
 
Here they are again for those that don't want to go to all the effort of clicking.
 
Druid:

• Feral Combat
  
• Feral Instinct - Reduced to 3 ranks, 5/10/15%.
• Thick Hide - Reduced to 3 ranks, 4/7/10%.
• Nurturing Instinct - Reduced to 2 ranks, 50/100%.
• Survival of the Fittest - Reduced to 3 ranks, same 1/2/3% improvements.

Balance

• (NEW) Focused Starlight - “Increases the critical strike chance of your Wrath and Starfire spells by 2/4%.”
• Improved Thorns - Renamed "Brambles", now increases damage from Entangling Roots as well.
• Omen of Clarity - Swapped with Insect Swarm, prerequisite from Natural Weapons removed.
• Improved Wrath - Renamed "Starlight Wrath", reduces cast time of Wrath and Starfire by .1/.2/.3/.4/.5 sec.
• Improved Starfire - Reduced to 3 ranks, no longer reduces cast time of Starfire, just has the 5/10/15% stun chance.
• Natural Shapeshifter - Moved to Restoration tree, where Improved Enrage was.

Restoration

• Improved Healing Touch - Renamed "Naturalist", in addition to the cast time reduction of Healing Touch it also increases all physical damage by 2/4/6/8/10%. Essentially, we folded Natural Weapons into it.
• Natural Weapons - Removed.
• Improved Enrage - Removed.
• Reflection - Renamed "Intensity", mana regen in combat as it did in addition to causing Enrage ability to instantly generate 4/7/10 rage.
• Natural Perfection - Changed to "Your critical strike chance with all spells is increased by 1/2/3% and melee and ranged critical strikes against you cause 4/7/10% less damage."

Keep it up Blizzard :D
 
New Talent Trees (http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/bc-druid/talents.html)
Thread Link (http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=32319938&pageNo=2)

Maybe something like this (http://www.wow-europe.com/en/info/underdev/burningcrusade/druid/talents.html?000000000000000000000503032130302210533130150500340030000000000) then? :smile:

Some good changes, good to know blizz still listens to the comminity, now if they would do the same to rogues, id be happy, cause first reports from beta aint good.
 
Edit btw vargen, id take OOC and Natural Shapeshifter instead of subtelty.

I think I will go for something like this (http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/bc-druid/talents.html?510025012503135231051000000000000000000000050503300000000000000). :woot2:

Hmm, I'm a bit dissapointed by the fact that they removed two points from my favorite talent (Survival of the Fittest) :sad: .
 
We do have some more points to spend now and some (important) talents have become more accessable, so it's a definate improvement. The 'merged' top tier restro stuff is HOT :dribble: .
 
This looks pretty nice (Bear tank/DPS):
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/bc-druid/talents.html?000000000000000000000500232132302210533105105503301000000000000 (http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/bc-druid/talents.html?000000000000000000000500232132302210533105105503301000000000000)[/COLOR][/COLOR]
I still haven't dicided if I want Imp.LotP or not :g: .
But, I know I'm really gonna miss Nature's Swiftness....
 
 
It's good to see that Blizz is doing a lot to improve the feral and balance stuff. Hopefully they'll do a similairly good job at the end-game design, I'd hate to see the druids getting pushed in the 'you heal because you can corner' again. We got at least 3 different forms we can use indoors, please let us utilize them.
 
 
P.S.: I have to agree with Bastet, I'd take Natural Shapeshifter and OOC over Subtelty as well Vargen. And you only need one druid with Imp.MotW in the raid group (just supply the reagents to keep him/her happy); I got Furor last time I respecced and now I can't live without it :happy: .

Quote from: BlizzardWarrior

Spells

• (NEW) Stance Mastery - “You retain up to 10 of your rage points when you change stances.”

Arms

• Blood Frenzy - Moved up a tier one column to the left of Mortal Strike. Now 2 ranks for 2/4%.
• (NEW) Improved Mortal Strike - "Reduces the cooldown of your Mortal Strike ability by 0.2/0.4/0.6/0.8/1 sec and increases the damage it causes by 1/2/3/4/5%."
• Second Wind - Reduced to 2 ranks, now "Whenever you are struck by a Stun or Immobilize effect you will generate 10/20 rage and 5/10% of your total health over 10 sec."
• Endless Rage - Now a passive effect. "You generate 15% more rage from damage dealt and taken."

Fury

• Rampage - Rank 1 (30 AP), Rank 2 (40 AP), Rank 3 (50 AP).
• Improved Berserker Stance - Now 5 ranks for 2/4/6/8/10% bonus.
• Improved Pummel - Removed.
• Improved Whirlwind - Now "Reduces the cooldown of your Whirlwind ability by 1/2 sec."

Protection

• Improved Bloodrage - Moved up one tier and generates 3/6 rage.
• Improved Shield Block - Reduced to 1 rank, duration bonus increased from .5 sec to 1 sec.
• Tactical Mastery - Reduced to 3 ranks. Now "You retain up to an additional 5/10/15 of your rage points when you change stances." Also see the new trainer bought spell “Stance Mastery” which gives you 10 rage retention when switching stances.
• Last Stand - Cooldown reduced to 8 minutes, from 10.

Rogue

Combat

• Blade Twisting - Moved up two tiers to one column left of Weapon Expertise. Reduced to 2 ranks for 10/20% chance to proc the daze effect.
• (NEW) Combat Potency - Where Blade Twisting was. 5 ranks that "Gives your successful off-hand melee attacks a 20% chance to generate 3/6/9/12/15 Energy."

Druid

Restoration

• Tree of Life - Now slows by 20%, changed from 50%.
[/COLOR][/B][/U][/I]

Paladin

Holy

• Lasting Judgement - Replaced with "Sanctified Light", which "Increases the critical strike chance of your Holy Light spell by 2/4/6%."
• Holy Shock - Cooldown reduced to 15 seconds.

Retribution

• Empowered Judgement - Renamed "Sanctified Judgement".

Shaman

Enhancement

• Stormstrike - Cooldown reduced to 10 seconds. Mana cost reduced to 277 (at level 70).

Mage

Arcane

• Empowered Arcane Missiles - Mana cost increase is now 2/4/6%, changed from 3/6/10%.
• Prismatic Cloak - Moved up a tier to the left of Arcane Instability and reduced to 2 ranks for 2/4%.
• (NEW) Spell Power - Where Prismatic Cloak was. "Increases critical strike damage bonus of all spells by 25/50%."
• Slow - Changed to "Reduces target's movement speed by 50%, increases the time between ranged attacks by 50% and increases casting time by 50%. Lasts 15 sec. Slow can only affect one target at a time."

Hunter

Survival

• Hawk Eye - Moved to first tier, where Deflection was.
• Deflection - Moved to second tier, where Savage Strikes was.
• Savage Strikes - Moved to first tier, to the right of where Hawk Eye was moved to.

[/LIST]Well there is still some hope that Blizzard will tweak a bit more our Balance and Restoration trees.

So far they seem to have focused on the feral tree only. THough I personally love them for that, I know that Akall would probably like to see the Balance tree get some more love, and ofc the Resto talents we all would like to see more interesting. ATM I think I will focus on Teddy spec and being backup tank, ofc with healing as a secondary as that is mostly needed.

Here we are with our weekly talent update directly from US Boards, unluckily for our fellow druids this week there are NO updates but I'll post them anyway cause I got used to :lmfao:

Quote from: Blizzard @ US ForumsWe’ve made some additional changes to the talent calculators today. In addition to changing many of the icons, we’ve also made the following changes:
 
Warlock
 

• Demonology
  
• Demonic Sacrifice - Felguard effect now restores 2% mana every 6 sec. (changed from 2% every 4 sec.) in addition to the 10% damage increase.
• Master Demonologist - Felguard effect tooltip corrected to increase damage by 1/2/3/4/5% and resistances by .1/.2/.3/.4/.5 per level.
• Unholy Power - Now also "...increases all Shadow and Fire damage you cause by 1/2/3/4/5%."

Paladin
 

• Spells
  
• Seal of Blood - Additional weapon damage increased to 40%, from 30%.

Priest
 

• Shadow
  
• Vampiric Touch - Rank 3 now costs 425 mana.

Check back soon for further updates.

Thread Link (http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=36003608&pageNo=1)
 
Maybe someone can answer a question: why Blizzard is buffing more and more locks? Are they too weak like they are now? :blink: :eyebrow:

Warlock Love Baby! Warlock Love!

Warlock allready got more then enough, and druids running a close second. What needs some attention is priest tbh, cause i cant see a full holy/disc build needed to raid level anywhere soon. Respecing to shadow might work, but then there wont be any raids for quite a while.

It seems there has been a ninja patch with not announced changes in these days:
 

Quoteweapons proccing in forms
drinking and eating in forms
bandages in forms
enchants in forms
able to interact wit npcs in forms
windfury and other totems in forms
shred 30% dmg increasee from mangle debuff
shredding attacks talent improved to 9/18 energey cost decrease
mangle dmg increase
mangle debuff is now +30% to bleed effects
Shapeshifting costs decreased (now 894 mana, untalented, at level 67) the orginal was 55% of base mana i do believe it is now 45% of base mana

[/B]
Thread Link (http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=44754697&sid=1)
 
These changes are posted by users so they might not be absolutely correct.
 
And in this ninja patch Blizzard added T4...It seems T4 will be a 5pcs Set and not like we are used to an 8pcs one.
 
(http://img292.imageshack.us/img292/3499/druidt4or6.th.jpg) (http://img292.imageshack.us/my.php?image=druidt4or6.jpg)
 
Thread Link (http://www.worldofraids.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1168)

That are some pretty nice changes :yahoo: .
Shifting becomes cheaper, mangle is getting improved; I would like to know the exact numbers though, but I guess we'll see those soon enough.
 
I'm a bit dissapointed by the T4 feral set though. The +stat bonusses are ok, but the armor is WAY to low. I guess we'll still be doomed to scavening separate items from all over the place ... again.

Hmm.. If the T4 set is 5-piece sets, how come they look pretty 8piece-like in the pictures posted before?

From the info I gathered around the net it seems that T4 is not T4 but Dungeon Set 3 (T 3.5) obtainable form questts, T4 will be the one that will drop in high-end game instances (id est 25 man raids).

So.. the 3.5 set is the 5-piece set or the 8-piece set?

Quote from: Nefertem;161192So.. the 3.5 set is the 5-piece set or the 8-piece set?

T4 will be 8pcs set, not sure about all that since Blizzard said nothing official but I found something wandering around forums. :D

heheh ok.. Well time will tell :D

This is the new [item]Warden Staff[/item]
 
It seems that something is going to change for what concerns feral
 
(http://www3.telus.net/public/mehwulfe/kyan/WoW/beta-tbc/items/cenarian-hammer.jpg)
 
Look at that +24 to 'Feral Combat Skill' :blink:

/drool
 
That looks pretty nice.
Hopefully there will be some one handed maces with more AP on them as well.
 
I've already seen +285AP blue lvl 64 weapons and such, so it seems feral is getting a nice boost in DPS.

Blizzard keeps nija changing our class...going better :D

Improoved Moonfire (http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/4959/impmoonfireke1.jpg)

Improoved Starfire (http://img471.imageshack.us/img471/2248/impstarfirets0.jpg)

Insect Swarm (http://img114.imageshack.us/img114/368/insectswarmbj7.jpg)

Nurturing Instinct (http://img396.imageshack.us/img396/5687/naturinginstincthu9.jpg)

Dire Bear Form (http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/7245/direbearhe0.jpg)

And if you want updated infos about druid in Beta check This Thread (http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=55385633&sid=1&pageNo=1)

The dire bear buff is really, really nice. On the other hand to hit the armor cap vs a lvl 70-72 mob you'll need about 28500 AC (they revised the DR formulae).
 
I'm wondering ... won't all these positive feral changes 'endanger' the roles of the parent class? They are getting pretty close now.
 
I've already seen movies of druids stunlocking people till they're dead and cats killing mobs within 5 seconds.
 
Besides that, bear druids are going to be so far ahead of warriors in terms of aggro, health and armor. I don't know how they will compare in terms of total damage reduction / avoidance, but I'm guessing it won't be far appart :unsure: .

I don't care about parents classes! I want to be overpowered! :D

As much as i like to play my druid, at this time druid is too good, with a well balanced spec you can outheal a priest and tank and dps (pending some gear changes ofc) but, why bother taking priests/rogues/warriors at all? just take a wad of druids.

i am thinking about this spec  (http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/bc-druid/talents.html?000000000000000000000503032132300212533105150503300000000000000)for my druid

You're overlooking one minor detail Bastet; there are not enough druids :narnar: . Additionally, since non of the new races in the expansion have druids they will probably become even rarer.
 
The parent classes probably will still be better, since they just have a wider range of abilities at their disposal that support their specific task(s). But by the looks of it druids will become a more then a viable alternative and will finally become what they are supposed to be, a gap filler that can perform every role nearly as effectively as it's parent class. Hopefully we won't be puched back in the 'heal because you can' corner. As long as we are still using only one form during an entire instance we're still broken :sad: .
 
 
But back to the talents. I'm still not 100% sure about what my new build is going to be. They keep changing / improving stuff. I still haven't figured out if I'm going to take Mangle or NS; it's a though choice, they're both so damn nice to have :g: . Does anyone have any thoughts about this?

Mangle is a awsome attack, and does a whopper of dmg (seen SS's of upwards of 1500 dmg, not sure if its crit though, cant recall)
 
Also warriors now make less agro then druids (if druid is played properly) and druids get more agro generation abilitys.

Quote from: Bastet;162201Also warriors now make less agro then druids (if druid is played properly) and druids get more agro generation abilitys.

That has been that way for as long as I can remember. Druids can potentially generate more threat then any other class and need only very little rage to do so. The expansion abilities and talents will only amplify this difference. If it was all about threat, druids would be the nr1 tank without question. The reason we're not is our lacking avoidance (parry/block), the inability to prevent crits and we can't do anything to counter those 'oh ****' moments (like pots / shield wall, ...). The altered mechanics and talents in the expansion will change this, but I don't think we'll ever be a better tank then a prot warrior; although we will probably get really close and may be considered for the position of MT1/2 for more fights then just Jindo :narnar: .
 
 
Mangle looks really nice, damage wise. But NS is pretty usefull as well, it's a real live saver and it's nice to have in PvP. It's like having 2 lives. Hmm, what to do, it's all nice....

As of last beta patch druids get ability to use pots, resilance ranking helps against crits, survival of fitest avoids crits. and they get another high agro move as a rage dump. i think its a bit more then a small bump

Well till now we have been limited by the fact that we could not use pots/enchants on weapon in feral forms....from BC on this will be FIXED, it is not a buff is a correction of the game mechanics that IMO should have been like that from the start.


EDIT: and after I saw THIS VIDEO (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6032597467946712547&q=shadowstep&hl=en)  I'm even more convinced that these are not big buffs. Now Rogues have blink....

EDIT II: Look at THIS VIDEO (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5285415166989476746&q=druid+flight)

Since the release of the talents for TBC is closing up and we're all gonna get a free respec, I've been toying a bit more around with what build I'll try out.

This is what I think I'll start out with, limited to the 51 points I'll have at level 60: click meh (http://www.wow-europe.com/en/info/underdev/burningcrusade/druid/talents.html?000000000000000000000500231130320000000000005500350401502001000)
Since I'm pretty shure that I'll go for Swiftmend in the resto tree, I'll need at least 31 points here, but I'm not shure if I perhaps should put in some more as well.  But since I also want to aim for 5/5 in Heart of the Wild when I hit level 70, I kind of need 30 in feral as well...
Mostly I'm pretty happy with the way I've distributed the points in the rest tree - a bit unshure though if I should take some points from somewhere to get 3/3 in Improved Rejuvenation - but I don't really know which points would be worth sacrificing for that :g:
Since my experience in the feral tree is close to zero, the points I've spent there is mostly based on what I recall others have reccomended earlier - don't think it's too bad though :)

As already mentioned, I'm aiming to put more points in feral as I leve, with 5/5 in Heart of the Wild as my final goal.  My first thoughts of a final build goes towards something like this: click meh too (http://www.wow-europe.com/en/info/underdev/burningcrusade/druid/talents.html?000000000000000000000500231130322210500000005500350401502001000)
Think this will give me a good posibility to both heal at a pretty decent rate, and also be able to do some feral damage/tank a bit.

Any thoughts?
And what are the rest of you folks landing on?

I like how you used the talent points, actually you might want to specialize yourself more in the feral tree only taking the talents to improove kitty form or  bare form and use the talent you saved in resto.

I wll use talents like this (http://www.wow-europe.com/en/info/underdev/burningcrusade/druid/talents.html?500025012503135231051000000000000000000000050200000000000000000) at 60 and at 70 will be something like this (http://www.wow-europe.com/en/info/underdev/burningcrusade/druid/talents.html?500025012503135231051000000000000000000000050503301000000000000)

I think I'll sort of keep the spec I have now (http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/bc-druid/talents.html?000000000000000000000500231132302210500000005503301031000000000) (30feral/21restro). And this (http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/bc-druid/talents.html?000000000000000000000500232132322210530130005503301031000000000) (40feral/21restro) for level 70; unless Mangle turns out to be really really good, then I'll probably go for something like this (http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/bc-druid/talents.html?000000000000000000000500232132322210533130105503301000000000000) (44feral/17restro). (If they had gave us Nature's Swiftness as non-talent skill this would have been a lot easier :narnar: ).
 
Then again it really depends on what the final talents will look like. There are still a lot of changes in the beta talents that haven't been incorporated into these trees yet. Anyway by the looks of it noone wants to go restro anymore :rolleyes: .
 
Btw, if Nurturing Instinct indeed turns out to give a passive +healing bonus instead of just 6 seconds, that might be nice to have for a healer / feral-restro hybrid. (eventhough they nerfed +healing bigtime).

From a finally fixed class to screwed again! :angry: Nice to see blizzard doing this

Quote from: Drysc @ US BoardsQ u o t e:


I believe Drysc made a mistake in that sense.  Consumables, at least some consumables are able to be used in Feral forms.

http://www.thottbot.com/beta?i=6686

http://www.thottbot.com/beta?i=2720There was a brief period of time on the beta where certain consumables were flagged as usable in some forms, and that has since been reversed.

Thread Link (http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=47009759&sid=1&pageNo=1)

:ranting2: .Lets hope they don't really consider to reverse this change. Currently it's only like that in Blizz's current internal build. In the beta it's still possible.
 
I don't really get what the problem is with druids being able to consume items in forms. It is just more convienent for us, it doesn't upset class balance in any way. It's just as rediculus as restricting a warrior from using pots in fury and defensive stance?!

Quote from: Akall;162740actually you might want to specialize yourself more in the feral tree only taking the talents to improove kitty form or  bare form

Mhm... you might have a point there :g:

But my thoughts of having points supporting both bear and cat form, is that I feel when in parties my best chance to be of any good is to tank (or heal ofc), cause I really don't think druid meele dps will help too much there, but I would also like to have the ability to go solo (especially with questing in TBC in mind), and than some points supporting cat form is a good thing, imo.

But I'm open to suggestions :)

Well most feral talents support both forms. There are only three that are really form specific (blood frenzy, primal fury and feral charge).
 
Cat form is going to be pretty good btw. Check this out: http://video.google.nl/videoplay?docid=3142251177050526207&q=druid+tbc
 
And I've also seen a post on the beta forums about a bear druid taking on 14 mobs simultaneously, killing them all in 1 minute (the mobs where 3 levels below him). Now that's what I call grinding :woot2: .
 
 
From what I've read, we suddenly became the prefered 5 man dungeon tanks as well, together with prot pallies. Warriors are still better meat shields, but they're having aggro problems. There aggro generation doesn't scale at all, while the damage of the other classes is rapidly increasing. Druids on the other hand scale perfectly and pallies simply rock at tanking multiple mobs.
 
Btw, leveling in TBC is going to be mainly group oriented, don't expect to do to much grinding. (at least that's the way Blizz wants it to be).

Quote from: Sandrion;163409Cat form is going to be pretty good btw. Check this out: http://video.google.nl/videoplay?docid=3142251177050526207&q=druid+tbc

Man, that kitty had some pretty sharp claws :drool:
And that bear wasn't performing bad either!

Now that I finally have managed to copy my characters into the test realm, I hope I'll get the chance to try out a couple of different builds :)
Just got to wait up till 4 days for blizz to get the transfer done... :eyebrow:

I just found this: http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=83828656&sid=1
 
We got nerfed ... big time :sad: .
 
 
And I also found out tree form is banishable by locks. The crappy talent just got even crappier :roflmao: .

Yeh big nerf again... still I spent the afternoon playing in the PTR with new talents (resto and balance) and I must say that these rocks!! W

hile in Moonkin I did great, starfire hits for about 1200-1500 andr crits for 2200 - 2300. Wrath hits for 400 - 500 and crits for 1000 and I had a Moonfire critting for 1000 all this with my gear/talents I have about +370 to spells.

Tree of Life in PVP rocks I spammed Regrowth and had no problems with mana. I did not yet tried this in a instance but I will do it asap. And yet no warlock banished me :D

Edit: Found this in Blizz forums...Interesting aint it?

QuoteThanks for all the really wonderful changes in this latest Beta push.  
....................../´¯/)  
....................,/¯../  
.................../..../  
............./´¯/'...'/´¯¯`·¸  
........../'/.../..../......./¨¯\  
........('(...´...´.... ¯~/'...')  
.........\.................'...../  
..........''...\.......... _.·´  
............\..............(  
..............\.............\

Blizzard found out the previous post....they nerfed the less played and less offensive class and they are disappointed??? They made enrage proc in the brain of druids :D:lmfao:

http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=83669039&sid=1

Yep, the druid community seems rather ****ed. It surprises me that they haven't lit Blizzard HQ on fire yet :narnar: .
 
Well, they're slightly overreacting. But it does seem odd that they're re-impossing the no-pot/proc handicap on druids again (and only on druids). It doesn't upset class balance in any way, this needed to get fixed since day one. There is no point in treating the druid class different then all others in a negative way. And as usual, no Blizz employee cares to comment on the issue.
 
Nurturing instincts, just became completely useless as well. In healing gear it will now give you less then 40+healing for 2 talent points :thumbsdown: .
 
You can find the current beta trees here btw: http://www.thottbot.com/beta?ti=Druid
 
 
We will definately get stronger then we are now, but I fear we'll remain 'broken'.
 
 
Here are some other 'fun' things I ran into:
 
Meleekin will own with the Earthwarden (http://www.thottbot.com/beta?i=13907). 102.5 DPS + 525 AP = 140 DPS. It'll out DPS everyone :roflmao: .
 
Cat form will however do 0 DPS vs locks in PvP, since the new curse of weakness is too powerfull. It'll reduce something like 328 damage per hit, with amplify curse and the right talents. To bad for us, cats don't to that much white damage per hit because of the 1 sec attack speed :sideways: .

Believe me... Locks in PVP are impossible to kill/hit them, the new minion is like a personal T3 Warrior Bodyguard with cleave, intercept and all :angry:

Yes and now we can't even damage them anymore :sad: .
 
 
Appearantly the druids are revolting and there are already some that where banned, because they where insulting Blizz employees and such.
 
The boards are filled with flames (lots of fingers) and on the Tichondrius server they where even protesting ingame: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=47161679&sid=1. Actually it's pretty funny seeing people getting so worked up about a change in a game that's still in the beta stage :lmfao: .

BTW... if you have like me Riding Skill @ 75 start grind some money cause Flight Form requires lvl 150 :doh:

Don't you have an epic mount yet?

Quote from: Sandrion;163548Don't you have an epic mount yet?

No :rolleyes:

:doh: .
 
Btw, bears can drink: http://img466.imageshack.us/img466/9458/bearbabydrinkingqa8.jpg (from the US beta forums).

Some SS of my log, just to give an idea of how balance works now:

(http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/1566/log1rb0.th.png) (http://img86.imageshack.us/my.php?image=log1rb0.png)

(http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/5808/log2pi3.th.png) (http://img86.imageshack.us/my.php?image=log2pi3.png)

(http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/2061/log3ow7.th.png) (http://img86.imageshack.us/my.php?image=log3ow7.png)

With my talent spec (47/0/4 - more pvp oriented atm) I tested also healing and this has gone nicely!

With these talents I have a nice boost to my + healing (form 680 to 780) and some nice mana regen (10% of my intellect) and the more I go up with lvls the more mana regen I will have, in fact @ lvl 70 I will take also 3/3 of Intensity (the old reflection) giving me 30% of mana regen while casting (15% from SR bonus).

So :thumbsup: to balance healing! :D

Yep, balance is indeed better for healing. Restro/balance kind of always have been :unsure: (<3 moonglow). But now you can do some sick ranged DPS as well :norty: .

Good news :clap: .
 
The devs seem to like the idea of pots and procs in forms, be it in a limited form. Let's wait and see what happens.
 

Quote from: Blizz_CM_VanerasHi everybody :-)
 
We have some answers for you regarding the two first questions about consumables and weapon procs in forms, which is currently one of the major issues you have been posting about recently:
 

   Q u o t e:   1- Usease of consumables in forms:    Why restrain the feral druids from using such an important aspect of the game? The developers think it'll overpower druids in any form in concrete or is it purely to avoid druids to stick to one form for too long thus making the druid lose some of the "shifting" ability? Is this definate or still in testing? The fact that Druids in the beta test could use consumables and items while being shapeshifted was a bug. It was an unforeseen side effect of the original intent, which was to allow for Druids to interact with NPCs while being shapeshifted.
 
However, the developers do like the idea of consumables being used while in Druid forms, but the above mentioned bug prevented a proper implementation of this ability, which would otherwise allow shapeshifted Druids to use certain consumables such as Rage and Healing Potions, Thistle Tea and Healthstones. The developers are currently evaluating which items they want Druids to be able to use while in forms, and as soon as all issues are resolved, it will be reintroduced into the game.
 

   Q u o t e:   2- Weapon procs in feral    The most commonly asked is the enchant "crusader", but as we all know, the ramifications are much deaper than only just that enchant. Most people say its incoherent to lose weapon procs based on the fact that we dont "use" the weapon but we still use its stats and still have to repair the weapon... Question is, what is the reasoning behind the weapon proccing in forms, the 1.0s fast attack rate or the added dps from WF totems (for example), would put the feral druid out of the proportion blizzard intends for out estimated dps? Similarly with the use of consumables while being shapeshifted, the developers like the idea of allowing weapons with procs to be used by Druids being in forms. As with consumables, they developers are currently evaluating which weapons with procs should be usable by shapeshifted druids. When the evaluation is complete and all possible issues have been resolved, this will be introduced to the game.
 
That is it for now, but we will hopefully soon have more feedback for you regarding your other questions. :-)

From: http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=84108466&sid=1&pageNo=6#117

Does this mean that Blizzard actually listens to the feedback they get through the druid forums :blink:

Well, good to see that things might be improving at least :)

Some other infos and a recap of answers!

Quote from:  Vaneras @ EU BoardsHi everybody :-)

We just wanted you all to know that some of the questions you have asked in this thread has been answered in other threads:

The information for question number 3, about weapon speed normalization, can be found in this thread:
http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html;jsessionid=63D7F5CD09F7FF2AA24BD6D838B84B67?topicId=74427446&pageNo=9&sid=1#170

The information for question number 4, about shape shifting costs, can be found in this thread:
http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html;jsessionid=63D7F5CD09F7FF2AA24BD6D838B84B67?topicId=61866863&pageNo=2&sid=1#23  

The information for question number 7, about Moonkin meelee mechanics, can be found in this thread:
http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=43845353&postId=875913593&sid=1#42  

The information for question number 8, about parry in forms, can be found in this thread:
http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html;jsessionid=63D7F5CD09F7FF2AA24BD6D838B84B67?topicId=75297651&pageNo=1&sid=1#16

Hopefully we should have some more feedback for you at sometime next week :-)

Looks like Europe's community managers are doing a good job lately.
 
Btw, I don't know if it has already been stated in this thread, but nature's grasp now works in forms and swipe (finally) scales with attack power. Both of those changes are pretty nice :) .

Quote from: Sandrion;164889but nature's grasp now works in forms

Huh :huh:

Haven't it always worked in forms?  I clearly remember using it when facing a small group of mobs in cat/bear form - buff myself with NG, than it roots the first mob to hit me when I attack...

Nope it is not usable in forms tho it perists through shapeshifting :)

What I meant was that it will become castable in forms, I kind of wrote it down the wrong way :doh: .

Ah, ofc :)

If I had mad an effort the first time I read it, i might even have understood it the right way :rolleyes:

Hmmm I was thinking that patch might come this Wednsday...but then I realized who from us will keep a resto spec?

I know that HoTs will stack and this is a huge improvment but losing all our Resto spec duids will hurt the raid?

I will reduce my points in resto quite a bit (have 46 in my current build), but I will still keep 31 points to get SM (I proposed a build in [post=162697]a previous post[/post]
).  But than agian, I'm not really raiding much anymore, so that won't benefit the raid too much afterall :P
If I find out that I won't get any time for raiding at all, I might concider to go more feral that I suggested in that post as well, but time will show...

I will go for something like THIS (http://www.wow-europe.com/en/info/underdev/burningcrusade/druid/talents.html?500025012503135231051000000000000000000000050503301000000000000) for lvl 70 and something like THIS (http://www.wow-europe.com/en/info/underdev/burningcrusade/druid/talents.html?500025012503135231051000000000000000000000050200000000000000000) for lvl 60. Being in a balance Spec I just need the right gear to heal tho I will not have mergency healings like Swiftmend and NS+HT

I'm curious to see how much mana regen while casting I'll have @ lvl 70...It should be huge:10% of int + 15% of normal mana regen (Intensity) + 15% from SR

We got stacking HoTs now, which is pretty nice. But this new patch will hurt druids in terms of healing on the short term, no matter if you're restro or not. This is partially because of the +healing nerf. But I think the main problem is that we'll be healing differently; more HoT's less HT-spam. This will require some getting used too. We'll probably overheal like hell in the beginning, unless you're already a HoT-ing druid.
 
But I wouldn't worry too much about your spec hurting the raid if I where you Akall. The balance talents also support healing nicely, so it shouldn't really be a problem in your case. How effective you are is mainly dependent on your skill and gear anyway, spec is secondary.
 
Personally I prefer the variety the patch will bring. It will make things more interesting. We can't really be compared to our parent classes anymore either, we've become different. The druid class now has a much clearer direction. Just as effective as their parent class, but different (restro = HoT heal instead of direct heal, balance = low downtime battlemage instead of a pure magic user, cat = DPS + raid DPS buff and bear = uber aggro melee tank).
 
In the raids currently on the live servers we'll probably still be asked to heal most of the time, simply because the encounters won't change. But looking at these talents and the BC changes, I don't think it will be the case in the expansion's end game content. In some fights we'll heal, some we'll tank and others we'll DPS. Games are supposed to be fun and these changes will make it just that: fun and varied :clap: .
 
 
About my spec, after long consideration I've decided that Mangle > NS. I had to 'waste' 3 talent points to get it and I can only use it once every 3 mins vs something I can use all the time. It'll prevent me from doing some cool wipe saving moves, but that's the price to pay for DPS :norty: . For 60: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent-bc=zZxMGsfroezfoVx and for 70: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent-bc=0zZxMGsfroezioVxIz.

Quote from: Sandrion;165305But I think the main problem is that we'll be healing differently; more HoT's less HT-spam. This will require some getting used too. We'll probably overheal like hell in the beginning, unless you're already a HoT-ing druid.

I don't think the main problem for us here will be that we, the druids, have to get used to primarily use HoTs.  Since we all (?) most likely will work this way now, and we all know how the spells work pretty well, I don't think we'll have much problem adapting to the new way of healing.  The main problem here I think, will be the other healer classes.
Say that you for instance is healing a target that's on 40% healt, you use Regrowth wich instantly heals the target up to 80% health (now those numbers are only taken out of the air, I don't bother to find the details :P), and the HoT will take care of the last 20%.  The chance is pretty big than, that a priest of a pally will come throw out an instant heal, thus wasting the whole HoT part of the spell :g:

Quote from: Sandrion;165305For 60: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent-bc=zZxMGsfroezfoVx and for 70: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent-bc=0zZxMGsfroezioVxIz.

How come you are "missing" the Blood Frenzy talent in your talent tree?  I can't find it where it should be (compare to my lvl70 build (http://www.wow-europe.com/en/info/underdev/burningcrusade/druid/talents.html?000000000000000000000500231130322210500000005500350401502001000)).  Has there been any chances, or is it just a bug in the talent calculator you're using?

The talent calculator he used are more accurate than the ones in Blizz forums cause thoes are reflecting the changes that are applyed to Beta Test. I think 2 feral talents have been merged... but don't ask me when which and were :D

And using that one I thin I will go for somthing like THIS (http://www.wowhead.com/?talent-bc=MxcrziIsguVoZxxcz) at level 70

News from Vaneras:

Quote from: Vaneras @ EU BoardsWe just got some developer feedback regarding the 5th question :-)

   Q u o t e:
5- Raid usefullness in non-resto specs.
A buff to +5% crit in moonkin and feral forms was indeed noticable by the druidic community, but unfortunately it's not enough to warrant both this specs in a raiding scenario. Imp LOTP was a good step in the right direction but the recent nerf was generaly accepted as a hit on the foot. Imp LOTP was our trumph card to get into raids i hope blizzard has that idea. If the reasoning behind the nerf was Solo PVE / tanking another solution should be brought up to compensate our ability to buff the raid in some way. Was it "nerfed" because of the recent bear +STA bonus? then why?  

The developers felt that the Imp LOTP talent was too strong due to the increased health pool sizes in the Burning Crusade. Given the fact that bear tank health totals of 15000 or more, the Improved Leader of the Pack talent can be used to heal over 3000 health per minute, for just the bear, let alone the rest of the party, mana free. It is very similar in strength to Judgement of Light, but never wears off, costs nothing to apply, and will scale as players get better gear, unlike Judgement of Light.

If the developers find that feral combat Druids are actually non-viable in raids, they will find ways to improve them as necessary. This goes for all new talent specs that were previously underutilized such as the Retribution or Protection Paladin, the Elemental or Enhancement Shaman, etc.

[/U]

Quote from: Bob;165392The chance is pretty big than, that a priest of a pally will come throw out an instant heal, thus wasting the whole HoT part of the spell :g:

Exactly, most healers will keep people near full health during raids. Most of the time they don't bother to check for active HoTs or they just can't see them, which is part of the problem. For example, CTRA lets you see the 4 buffs that you deemed most 'important'; a pally could for example prioritize their blessings, so they can see which ones are active.
 
The other part of the problem is that HT rank 4 was our most used healing spell, a lot of druids never touched regrowth during raids. For a part this is due to the problem you stated: the HoT is mostly wasted and we needed to resort to HT to reduce our overhealing. Additionally the lower rank HT's scaled really well with +healing.
 
So it's kind of a two fold 'problem'. Like I said before, I think it will hurt raid groups a bit in the short term; it will require some 'arrangements' to be made between the healers. But it will be beneficial for the druid as a class. We'll become different from our parent classes, since we have our own unique speciality.

Quote from: VanerasIf the developers find that feral combat Druids are actually non-viable in raids, they will find ways to improve them as necessary. This goes for all new talent specs that were previously underutilized such as the Retribution or Protection Paladin, the Elemental or Enhancement Shaman, etc.

Good to hear they're indeed looking in to the raid viability of certain specs.

the wrong one!!! gib something nice for raids in BALANCE !!! :taz:

Quote from: Akall;165575the wrong one!!! gib something nice for raids in BALANCE !!! :taz:

Don't worry Akall, he said they're looking into all underutilized specs :) :
 

Quote from: VanerasThis goes for all new talent specs that were previously underutilized ... .

I think I might go to THIS (http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/classes/bc-druid/talents.html?000000000000000000000000000000000000000000050550350531502231051) build while we are doing AQ40 - C'Thun tries.

(http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/3491/swiftmendrb4.png)
 (http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/3491/swiftmendrb4.png)

Well I wouldn't pick the tree for C'thun if I where you, because of the movement imparing effect; you'll be running around a lot and you might get torched by the dark glare thingy if you're unlucky :unsure: .

Unofficial Beta Notes

Quote- Dire Bear form AP bonus is now +210. HP Bonus is now 25% (down from 40%)
- Tranquility now heals roughly 5x as much (almost 1600 every 2 sec for 8 seconds), but with 10 minute cooldown.
- Idol of Ferocity changed from -3 energy to +20dmg.
- Stormrage Armor Set 3 part bonus is now 20mp5 instead of 15% mana regen.

Oh great, major nerfs :angry: .

In italian we say that bad things arrives in packs :sad: no exceptions:

 Rune of Metamorphosis changed from 100% cost reduction to flat 550 mana reduction.

(http://worldofraids.free.fr/bc/patch/druid/dfdfog7.jpg)

Idol of Brutality was also nerfed from -3 rage to +50 damage :sad: .

Aye, but you get some talent changes, see em here: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent-bc=MZxhGsfrRezVoVxIz (Filled in my own talent spec for my druid)

Hmm it seems these are the final talents so my build @ lvl 70 (http://www.wowhead.com/?talent-bc=0xcrzicstuVoZxEc) :)

i wouldnt say final, but most current, it aint final till its live, and even then it gets tinkerd with :) And, erm, i thought you was going boomkin instead of feral?

hmmm in fact that is your build not mine...I must have linked the wrong page...I'll edit the link now :lmfao:

And then is DOOMkin, repeat with me D-O-O-M- kin :D

Doomkin, boomkin, oomkin, its all 1 letter diff, who cares :narnar:

I do care! :boxing::ranting2: :boxing:

I don't like to be called oomkin or boomkin! :rolleyes: Boomkin gives more the idea that I'm going to explode, not to kill ppl... and then Akall's feathers all over the place :help::nope::nope:

This is my final build for level 70: http://www.wowhead.com/?talent-bc=0zZxMGsfroeuioVxcz.