Hi all
I was just wondering what your strategy is for pumping out as much damage as possible?:boxing:
Personally i find that doing an Aimed Shot, Multishot, auto, auto, repeat gives me the most. And when running low on mana (ie. not having mana for another aimed/multi) i use Rapid fire to speed things up a bit.
Whats your preferences? :devil:
The optimal cycle kind of depends on your weapon speed as well.
But there is a nice post about this stuff on Blizz's hunter forum: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=11871317&sid=1. It also discusses cycles and uses Rhok'delar as example.
Quote from: DonnieKingo;153063I was just wondering what your strategy is for pumping out as much damage as possible?
I'd add to that question the following caveat:
"without pulling so much aggro that I wipe the raid"
Pumping out high DPS is easy.
Pumping out high DPS and not wiping the raid due to your inability to manage aggro or using FD to 'save yourself' is not the way forward if you plan to raid.
The Guild already has enough 'Learner' hunters trying to out-DPS a certain T2 hunter's build and pulling HUGE aggro at the same time and causing untold deaths.
Aggro management FTW.
TL.
I can only wonder why people allways take things the wrong way?:g:
I am just curious to know how the other hunters do their skill-rotation â€" including FD once it is off cooldown - which goes without saying - since noone is aiming for wipes!
Have to agree with DK here. Everytime someones mentions DPS some dude always has to be the "clever" one and start dictating about agro and stuff.
And dmg meters are strictly banned and a taboo like subject. Frankly Im getting tired of not being able to discuss DPS in an open forum. Whether you like it or not it is DPS thats killing the mobs in instances. More DPS means quicker kills and faster progress.
I dont see people in RG2 pulling agro and wipe the raid. This might happen in RG1 but not in RG2 :norty:
Tank keeping control off the mob and not killing the dps or the healers that keep the dps and tanks up is what kills the mob.
I have to agree with tl, we have about 20-25 dps, and its a large portionl So you can just "calm" down and dps in a more steady form, Save it for patchwerk.
TL, until you can actually pull aggro with dps, you cant learn to limit your dps properly. Might cost a wipe or two, but its worth it imo
Well, i guess that healers want to heal to their best, and i guess that mages and tanks want to do the same - hell i hope that everyone want to make the most out of their char - i know i do.
So the point is that i wont just sit back and relax with my hunter on autoshot while i grab a coke and some peanuts. I want to make as much contribution to the the raid as possible - and as a hunter that means damage. The more we all do our best - the quicker we will get through the mobs.
And some of you might still be misunderstanding me - but when i say optimal i mean optimal - not uber aggro! It is all about finding out how far you can go - when to feign - when to stop - when to auto etc.
It is not a race to see who can pull aggro off the tank first - but to do as much as possible, while still making sure that the raid goes as smooth as possible - ie. not causing wipes!
I hope that clears things up a bit... :eyebrow:
Quote from: TeaLeaf;153087I'd add to that question the following caveat:
"without pulling so much aggro that I wipe the raid"
Pumping out high DPS is easy.
Pumping out high DPS and not wiping the raid due to your inability to manage aggro or using FD to 'save yourself' is not the way forward if you plan to raid.
The Guild already has enough 'Learner' hunters trying to out-DPS a certain T2 hunter's build and pulling HUGE aggro at the same time and causing untold deaths.
Aggro management FTW.
TL.
Amen!! :clap::worship::clap::worship:
Quote from: DonnieKingo;153101I can only wonder why people allways take things the wrong way?:g:
I don't think I did. I merely added a caveat as a reminder to *all* readers (both SOG and non-SOG) because unknown to you we have had recent problems within SOG with hunters pulling aggro that Field Marshalls (specifically me at the time) had to deal with. Hence I thought a timely and anonymous general reminder to those out there that had seen and found the DPS message to remind them of the accompanying aggro management responsibilities. For the record it was neither an RG1 nor an RG2 hunter.
And Nefrion, please refer me to the post where we stopped you discussing DPS in here, because "Frankly Im getting tired of people hallucinating not being able to discuss DPS in an open forum". :rolleyes: I hate it when people imagine restrictions that do not exist and then post them as if they were a rule :sad:
Padding, yes I agree, but that assumes you then change your pattern of play to avoid that situation again. The case in point was a hunter who just repeated the same attack pattern, with entirely predictable results. Personally I'm interested in the DPS discussion here as I have a hunter I am levelling and know little about the class, but I was just adding a common sense comment as it seemed relevant.
Max DPS FTW with caveat ;)
TL.
"In an open forum" I was thinking just as much in gc. Its just that when you mention the word dmgmeters people start to get real cranky
Quote from: Nefrion;153282Its just that when you mention the word dmgmeters people start to get real cranky
Err, I didn't. And yes you did.
TL.
well, ive got a lvl 30 hunter MM spec. and ime getting 498 ish aimed shots.. thats sometimes enough to kill a lvl 29 enemy.. ^_^
i personally use on long fights, aimed, multi, 2 auto shots rotation.
When i run out of mana i'm mostly doing autoshot + multishots when i have mana. And rapid fire ofcourse.
For short fights arcane, multi, autoshots with rapid fire.
A small trick for mana, grind some demonic runes and whipper root tubers.
You they are on different cooldowns and wont decrease to much hp.
Just wanted to clear up some stuff about aggro and such :g: :
Pulling aggro should only be a problem if either the tank is having trouble building up rage or if your fighting bosses with aggro reducing abilities like Onyxia or Broodlord.
In an unlimited rage situation a protection specced warrior will generate somewhere around 700 threat per second; which means that a hunter with BoS would need to do 700 * 130% / 70% = 1300 DPS to pull aggro of the tank. (I have to admit that the only 'real' unlimited rage fight is Vael; but even on MC trash mobs I see the tanks have a full rage bar at the end of the fight, so it's not entirely unrealistic). As a comparison: a hunter with the best gear that is currently available can get a sustainable DPS of about 500 maximum. So if you give the tank enough aggro time there is no way you're gonna pull aggro. Additionally you have FD, which you can use to prevent pulling aggro.
As an illustration: in an experiment I did some time ago with 'uber aggro' Manny, I discovered that when I tanked a mob the only thing that could get it of me is when he critted for more then +/-1600 damage right after I landed my first blow. After getting 2 mauls it was impossible for him to get it of me even though he didn't even have BoS.
As a hunter you only need to do 3 things really:
1. Respect da aggro time.
2. Stay below 90.1% of the MT's aggro at all times, 130% will pull aggro but it's better to be on the save side (bosses with 'weird' aggro are exceptions ofc). FD when you get to high on the threat list. And get KTM if you don't already have it, it's really usefull when the master target is set.
3. DPS your ass off :biggrin: (without breaking rule 1 and 2).
Hmm, it sounds nearly as boring as healing :narnar: .
To awnser the question about how to do as much DPS as possible:
Multi shot is on a 10 second timer and aimed on a 6 second timer + 3 second cast, so you want to do 10 second cycles otherwise you'll get problems with not being able to do a multishot because you're casting an aimed shot (which you obviously don't want). The trick is, when you do an aimed shot the 'swing timer' keeps running; so you should casting aimed shot right after an auto-shot to maximize DPS, when the aimed shot cast is done your next auto-shot should fire instantly after it as well. Additionally get a slow weapon that matches this cycle as closely as possible, since you want to be able to cast you next aimed shot as soon as possible after those 10 seconds (when selecting a weapon keep in mind that quivers and such increase your attack speed). Hope this is of help to anyone :smile: .
I try to use this rotation:
| aimed, auto, multi, auto, auto | aimed, auto, multi, auto, auto | ... | and so on, but then again i got about the best weapon for this rotation to :)
Is there anybody else than me that thinks that Sandrion and Drazila are mathematical nerds? :biggrin:
I mean it in a good way ofcoz, since the number crunching is almost impossbile to do :smile:
Quote from: Padding;153497since the number crunching is almost impossbile to do :smile:
Is it? Hmm, maybe that's why we invented calculators :g: .
If your up for reading a wall of text about this check http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=15211926&sid=1
Allrighty - ill check it out. :)
well put it this way, starting with an Aimed Shot isent that good idea after all, well if it crits for 2400 ul get a high dps from the start, well its not all about the dps, wee hunter need to remember that wee have some classes that have problems removing their agro.
Mages, Locks and if something goes wrong its kinda the end.
wee have seen menny times some preists overagro becuse of the high amount of overhealing, and if an hunter goes over that agro point and FD´s wee will have a dead preist verry fast
and if a preist dies, the next on the agro list gets ganked and so on and so on untill wee have 5 hunter fd´d
so wee can agree on overagroing a tank isent a good idea (RIGHT SPI^^)
i dont have a specialy way to start and end the fight, i use something called "Common Sense" as far as i remember its not a vendor skill, think its a pasive skill :O
so, its not about the DPS, Highest on the Damage list and so on, its about a common goal, to sucsede
god bless agro mannagment!
I have to agree, opening with an aimed shot is not always a good idea, since it may indeed crit and you thus risk pulling aggro.
But I have to correct you regarding some other points you mention in your post. First of all, overheal doesn't cause any threat at all. If a priest dies it is because they either casted a big heal on the tank before it could establish aggro or because there was a lose add. Other then that threat is not a problem for priests or any other healing class for that matter, since they generate only very little (4 points of healing equals 1 point of damage, threat wise). The only way a hunter could cause anyone else to die due to over aggroing, is when the mob that was being tanked has a front cone attack which will hit everyone if they turn around and face the raid; other then that when the hunter dies or uses FD the mob should return directly to the tank, if it doesn't then someone else was too high on the mob's hate list as well.
Like I explained before, there is no possible way for a hunter to over aggro under 'normal' conditions. Only when mobs have abilities that influence or limit the tanks ability to generate and hold aggro.
Hunters are all about DPS, it's what they are made for (that and kiting), it's their main purpose in the raid. I'm not talking about holding 'competitions' over who does most or the statistics that damage meters spit out; those are meaningless. It is however your task to do as much damage as you possibly can, without crossing the line; find the limits of your class and get the most out of it! The more damage you do the shorter the fight and the greater the chance of success.
I always do it like this, in a boss fight:
Start with a serpent sting - arcane - multi(if there is no sheep) - aimed(when cd is down) and the take turns between multi & aimed/arcane, do a serpent sting from time to time when it runs out(useing Sorren Hunter timer).
I almost never use rapid fire because of the long cd, but have instead 5 points in "Improved aspect of the Hawk" who gives you a 5% chance to have a +30% speed in 12 seconds. I find this more usefull.
But another thing you have to remember as hunter is, if you are picked as MA to a raid, you job is'ent to be the hunter who does most DPS, but to be the one who decide what the next target is.
I have seen this to often, the MA is on the top of KTM list and having a delay on the next target or change the target because you have pick the wrong one.
It's better to have a overview over targets, decide the next target, way before the one we a killing is down, change when the "x" target is on 1-2% to "y" target, in my opinion.
Between my heals I use shadow word Pain as much as I can. Dont think I pull aggo with that but you never know.:roflmao:
True, the priorities for the MA are a bit different. I completely forgot about that :doh: .