before i start this post, I don’t want to blame any one. (or maybe I do, but they left rg2 so they probably won’t read this.)
First of, its great that rg2 made it to firemaw. Big gratz to all that attended that night. And so on and on.
But because of lack of attendance and because rg2 is losing members we are “stuck†on Razagore again.
And here is my problem. It is frustrating to see that we should be a lot further than we are now. But somehow we can’t keep up the progres we made in the past.
Is it because lack of attendance?
- well kind of but that’s not all.
- Its also because we lose members, and the members that we get back are “newbie’s†that are fresh behind there ears and don’t know there tactics. (Not to blame them, we were all newbie’s)
But if we get these members, which are mostly geared with blue items and never done mc or BWL is hard for the “hard core†members of rg2 that made progress, and fall back again if we lose members.
the solution?
- Members need to stay in the guild. If something isn’t going your way, tell the officers. And if you need to sort out RL you kind’ a know that in advance so why did you join in the first way?
I know this sounds hard, but we need to step up a space to keep up progressing in BWL and we need the right members to do this. So if you feel you not the one for the job, ore you just don’t want to spend that much time in World of Warcraft we kinde don’t need you. And your better of A: as a soldier. B: in a guild that don’t care.
- The new members that we get in, should at least have some mc gear. And some BWL experience. MC is fun, but it’s the same as al the other instances, if you done them 100 times it just a anther day at the offices. And that is no way why I bought this game. I wish to make progress and get the reward for it (the loot, the experience, the fun of TS freaking out when we get a new boss down) And I really have had it to do mc again because some new folks don’t have any good gear jet.
This may in some way be a hard post to some that recon that thay are not hard core. But do you really want the one responsible to disappoint 39 ore 38 anthers that are willing to be "hard core".
Of course sometime RL stuff comes first (happened to me 2, no denying that.) But if you commit of being a Defender you should try to come when there are raids. See it as football practise, if you don’t come to practise the coach will not let you play, and if you never come you probably kicked out of the team.
I hope nobody hates me now, but just wanted this off my chest.
greets Noevra
:yahoo:
Hi
I can only say that i share your frustration - but im not sure what is causing our lack of progress.
Most of us has lots of epics and many has most of their T1-sets, so we should be able to cope with a few new non-epic-members.
It might have something to do with it - but im not sure.
Yesterday it seemed to help that we started taking out "Leg's" as well as mages. It seemed to get us further and into phase two.
But i agree that one of the problems might be that too many might have their first encounter with him every time - so that we spend lots of time on tactis and explaining.
But given that some RG2's have left - that's whats to be expected.
I hope things will settle down - and that people will start coming on "Wipe-Nights (tm)". I still cant forget the first time we went to BWL - almost all RG2 members were ready - and since then its been going steady downhill.
Thats my two cents.
Of course it's frustrating to be stuck on a boss that we have shown before that we can get down. We haven't yet shown that we are good at it tho, cause we haven't done it in our first try yet. However, I fail to see what the alternative is. We clear out MC in one night, so just hanging around doing nothing on our second raid night doesn't make much sense to me.
And while we're at it, how come it's been widely accepted that skipping Onyxia is ok? Every time we're going, about half the raid or more leave. I thought this was part of the package. We almost didn't make it last night because of this. Thanks to those that came and helped us down her.
Getting there once is by no means a garentee that next time youll be able to get there again eazyly. You still have to focus a lot.
Happens to RG1 too from time to time (see recent huhuran attempts where we failed to archieve a kill)
Okay my experience as the orb controller.
I have a little window on my screen (CTRaid default) that tells me how many people are dead. The last try yesterday evening was the best try we ever faced untill phase 2.
After seeing none has died and there we still only 7 eggs left. Mostly by that time there are around 5 people dead.
I understand the way Noevra is feeling and I agree on him. But I also understood there was many explaining to do. While there is stated to ASK about it when you don't know what to do. Every class and group has his specific job to do. Hearing Siffredi calling out not sheeping the onces he is kitting (which can happen) made me realise there wasn't something clear. I also heard something about the position of the rogues, and the use of lower rank of healing spells.
In a simple word it's the communication. I rather have people to ask about the tactics and we make a good kill then beening afraid to ask about it and stuggling our way. We might need to assign new class marshalls to those that don't have one (palainds, druids ..)
Off-topic.
About the FireVolley. This spell is casted to get agro of all the mobs that are hit by this spell. My job is to cast it in the middle of the room and announce it on TS. When I use FireVolley the adds will come to Razorgore, when feared correctly only a few or even none are hitting him. This means he stays alive and tanks can do their job in getting agro.
When this process is initiated to soon and fear is still on cooldown it will kill razorgore...he is killed in less then 10s. I rather would use the FireVolley spell when there is around 4 eggs left.
I agree with you guys. And all remember wiping is apart of the learning phase too.
And bastet yeah look at RG1´s big failed nights on huhuran, and then suddenly last time the cleanest kill ever. think 1 or 2 tanks used SS under fight and we had like 1-2 dead after she was dead.
So ppl hold the focus up at all time when there is raid nights and be there to help out your team. No matter if it goes good or bad, take it all as exp.
hmm i don't know i am new in rg2(defender) and my first raid was yesterday.
And i can clearly say i am what you would refer to as a newbie since i only have one piece of my nightslayer gear.. But recently i joined SoG because the guild i was raiding with was falling apart(final justice)..(and otehr stuff to)
I had raided with them a hole year and the only thing i got from my tier1 set was Nightslayer pants.. (And yesterday when i red the mail that i had been accepted into rg2 i fel of my chair and was walking in circles of joy.. :) )
Under that time I came to the conclusion with my self that it's not really the gear that makes the character but who is controlling it... I only think what was missing was focus tbh..
But as you say we lack eperience i will tottaly agree but i am a fast learner and willing to learn and i only hope to be a help to rg2 and not a "drawback".. because if the feeling is that towards not tottaly epic geared people i might as well leave and you can find some one to replace me whom is tottaly epic geared which will be really hard since Anything have there rg2 looking for people and the new guild Eureka still is looking for hardcore gamers.
I an sorry if you feel i am drawback to rg2.. :(
We should be able to do this even with some new members, but ppl need to be prepare, read the tactics and so on.
Communication is very importen and every class should inform new class m8 and talk about what they can do better next time.
And then ofc. ppl shall meet up even to "wipe-night" :boxing:
We can do this guys/girls even before getting to lvl 70....
I hope that none of the "new" members of RG2 read this and feel bad about it. I dont think that a few new members is what is causing this - not by itself atleast.
Regarding your gear, Nightshadel, i think you will catch up rather quickly.
Recently we have started disenchanting more and more for each trip to MC - so hopefully you will be up to speed very fast :yahoo:
The bottom line is - none of the new RG2's should feel bad!
I'd rather say "Welcome - We cant do this without you" :smile:
Like I stated in my post, I don’t want to attack the new members of rg2, that’s not the point I wanted to make.
I wanted to say that we need a group that are committed to raid and if this means some new members, sure. but get in some good attitude members (and most likely the once with epic gear know already some tactics and are committed to raid). And don’t accept that people leave after a month ore so. Just to graph some loot end go to an anther guild.
I don’t want to attack nightshade ore any anther new member.
I just wish we had 40/50 defenders that are forming a good group to raid with, without having to rebuild the raid group every month ore so with some new players.
This is just a thought.
Maybe that can be one of the problems, if you have to many defenders and every time ppl have to sit over and then they "maybe" think what the **** I can jump over this time and just not come online.
So maybe just make it a shout out to all the defenders that they need to help the team in both good and bad situations. ofc can things happen and you cant commit from time to time.
Just as I see it. There are still a attendence requement for both RG1 and RG2. So I dont understand if you guys need ppl from time to time.
Well towards commitment i am fully there... 110% i wish to proceed as much as anyone else.. offcourse i haven't been there in bwl with you before and succeded and then had the down hill(which probably is the thing that is causing all the people to get maybe a little tired and a tad mad sometimes because of the wipes) but i wish to be a help to rg2 in any possible ways.. and i am gonna use my vacation in next week to go over tacs and stuff over and over again til they are practicly printed to my forhead.. :)
And Donnie i know you recently have been disenchanting a lot of things in mc since most have there full gear.. BUT i also know a lot of people is tired of mc because it has started to be kinda of an "old school" instance and boring for most.. Which is kinda sad... Since probably A LOT of good memories and stuff come from mc.. (hmm think what i am trying to say is: Maybe find a way of making mc fun again?)
Quote(hmm think what i am trying to say is: Maybe find a way of making mc fun again?)
lets blow up vargen
but mc is just no more challence for the most of us, and that is the key problem here.
BWL is a challence but we somehow mis the grib we need so badly to push a bid forward and make real progress.
RG2 is kinde in a 2 way situation, one the one hand we are to "good" for mc, and we are not yet "good" inuf for bwl
Firstly, I'd like to welcome the new members to RG2 - and point out that the new members have been invited due to us demoting other members where their RG2 attendance had not been satisfactory, so it's not all about people leaving! The core of RG2 is stable.
Secondly, 'SOG One' raids to Molten Core and Onyxia's Lair will start imminently now that new Commanders have been appointed, so any new members (and anyone else) wishing to get geared up to the hilt have a weekly MC run to do so. This will improve RG2's ability to progress rapidly.
Finally, whilst hiding in my alt-priest diguise in RG2 last night it was interesting to observe what was happening:
The slight change in tactics to DPSing down some Legionnaires as well as Mages initially until numbers become more difficult was takign a thread from RG1's approach. When RG2 (and RG1) first got to Razegore there was insufficient DPS to DPS both Legionnaires & Mages, hence Legionnaires were kited. RG1 found that as DPS increased then in the early stages of the fight you could DPS down both Mages and Legionnaires for a period, before reverting to DPSing Mages only and kiting remaining Legionnaires. RG1 found this a very calming influence on the fight as it reduces the train sizes and thus reduces deaths and the need to heal. RG2 is now able to experience some of the same benefits as your DPS is now sufficiently high to allow it.
Things were a bit 'loose' last night as people remembered or learned their roles again, but it will come back real quick and I fully expect a nice clean kill next time.
TL.
Well as i have understod razorgore IS one of the most difficult fights in BWl.. So maybe for starters make sure to have a lot of potions and stuff for a little extra kick.. And maybe somehow make "safe spot for healers where they are in range but out of range enough to have time to regain aggro from loose mobs.?
I don't know but maybe target dummys work on the mobs..? which engineers can lay all around the healers..? which will also gain some time.. i know it is only seconds but it IS also only a matter of seconds..
Don't worry, Nightshadel, from what I saw, u did a fine job yesterday. And with the other rogues almost fully NS'ed up, what drops there will in most likelyhood go to u. As you might have noticed, most of us wear other stuff than just NS, bacause items u can get from ZG and AQ are better.
Quote from: noevra;155406RG2 is kinde in a 2 way situation, one the one hand we are to "good" for mc, and we are not yet "good" inuf for bwl
Not agree on you with that. As we did our fastest run throught MC on the 3de of august we even killed Onxyia that evening, since then we never made a faster MC clearance. So it's not that we are to good, remember we still wiped 4 times on MC mobs last thursday. We still don't do MC under three hours. Also we seem to have problems in MC with proper pulling and positions to stand without pulling other mobs... Still a lot to get used to eachother. As noevra stated it's not the new ones, hell we didn't knew it back then. When going up through the instances we must work more together as a team, room for error narrows down. So let's get a solid group and we can gain progression on RG1 again.
In the meantime I attend to all the MC runs to help out getting gear for newones, but plz people stay and work on the team aspect....I'll bet we even get even with RG1 as soon as we are known to eachother.
D.
Thanks Jemeny.. :)
yeah I have noticed some of you prefer to use 2 pieces of zandalar madcap instead of the Tier one and stuf..
But stil it is a childish dream that of maybe having at least nearly all of tier 1..? :P
Hi
Bwl are hard and the new efforts in just going for bwl will get us into mastering the first bosses. I think that we are a very short period of time away from that.
Siffredi and the other commanders are telling their orders in a calm and clear voise to the raid group and I really think they har gettin better and better in their job. Its not easy to learn a new boss and lead it in the same time. The best thing we can do is to try to inform our class leader about our class efforts, so we can learn from it. If YOU are doing something wrong and the leader point it out its not an accusation, its in the process of gettin better.
Offcourse its frustrating not to down razor last nite, but we should be able to do him in a easy way with the right tacks with our group.
About a steady raid group. Not to offend anybody but as for my own class Im glad that the leaders have cleard out the ones that havent been raiding for ages and gettin some new in. atm we are only two that have the required raid attendance, and that will short out in the future by this group. The next raidnights I hope and belive that we can be a steady 4-5 priest group without help from Teall (its nice to have you but I belive its a solution out of need):wink:
All in all wer having fun.
And even though we didnt manage to get a kill in BWL last night - we still managed to down Onyxia with only 25 man...it was a struggle with a surprise wipe while preparing for the second attempt - but we did it :boxing:
Well as TL said... HEll yeah we are gonna get a nice fine kill on razorgore next time!
:devil:
Quote from: Devout;155431The next raidnights I hope and belive that we can be a steady 4-5 priest group without help from Teall (its nice to have you but I belive its a solution out of need):wink:
I agree fully, I should not need to be there to help out. But I still got the biggest mana pool on RG2 :norty:
TL.
Quote from: TeaLeaf;155471I agree fully, I should not need to be there to help out. But I still got the biggest mana pool on RG2 :norty:
TL.
Your kidding me? I thought I it was me :sad:
But we almost mastered Phase 1 of the fight, which is the hardest part. The times we did kill him it was more luck than skill and this time the first phase went almost perfectly except when on the last second a tank dies. I have the feeling were close to mastering this fight. :boxing:
And about the stable Raidgroup, I hope this would be possible, but for me its hard to get the required attendance due to work and school but I'm trying my best :biggrin:
Quote from: Sebas;155477Your kidding me? I thought I it was me :sad:
I have the feeling were close to mastering this fight. :boxing:
Yep, just pipped you with about 9.3k buffed, I think you're about 9.1k from memory.
Re the mastering of the fight, you're absolutely right. When RG1 was learning this fight it was choatic for the longest time, then all of a sudden we got to the point where we managed phase 1 properly and within a week the fight went from choas and wiping to tightly controlled and a successful boss kill. RG2 are on that same cusp.
TL.
so MC isnt interesting enough, i might know a solution to make MC more interesting, we could start thinking out of the box of class roles and let people do something else than their used to. And no this is not my way of saying LET ME TANK :woot2: , but to be quite honest we reached a point where MC is easy and hence boring, but what makes it interesting then? Doing something out of the ordinary can save my day, someone mentioned Onyxia earlier, well i've been doing Ony for about a year now, u think i find that fight boring? (answer is yes) then a couple of times ago, i was made MT1, couldnt hold the aggro though, but was still about the my best try on Ony ever, why? because it was fun, i was doing something im not that used to.
But ofc. this doesnt help with BWL. As it is already said BWL is all about dedication, if the group is dedicated and people show up every time, we win, if not we loose. Its like that in any instance but BWL has a way of cracking RGs:boxing: .
Quote from: Gallahan;155580so MC isnt interesting enough, i might know a solution to make MC more interesting, we could start thinking out of the box of class roles and let people do something else than their used to. And no this is not my way of saying LET ME TANK :woot2: , but to be quite honest we reached a point where MC is easy and hence boring, but what makes it interesting then? Doing something out of the ordinary can save my day, someone mentioned Onyxia earlier, well i've been doing Ony for about a year now, u think i find that fight boring? (answer is yes) then a couple of times ago, i was made MT1, couldnt hold the aggro though, but was still about the my best try on Ony ever, why? because it was fun, i was doing something im not that used to.
But ofc. this doesnt help with BWL. As it is already said BWL is all about dedication, if the group is dedicated and people show up every time, we win, if not we loose. Its like that in any instance but BWL has a way of cracking RGs:boxing: .
Partly agree with you.
There has been major changes in RG2 for the last couple of weeks, we have lost players and new ones have come. Thanks for that we are able to raid. BUT. They dont know us and we dont know them. My opinion is we need to "go back to basics" (wich doesent improve our progress in BWL atm) but such simple things as MC raids and OL raids is enough just so we can get to know eachother, how to play with eachothers in different situations. You cant expect to pull new members in BWL that doesent even got some parts of T1 and lack of FR gear and even more expirience, and believe that its gonna be a succes. It all takes time, wich i belive that fx MC can fix. Gear them up, make some gear, and hope to become dedicated an ready to put some efford in proggres in BWL.
I belive the reason RG1 is so far as they are cause they know eachoter and have been playing together as a "Team" for quite some while now.
The key to success is is dedication and xpirience as a team!
(but hey this is just 1 mans opinion)
I agree with you Yrthal.
To make MC more interesting we could go for speed-records every time.
The last couple of times in MC we have started out nice - good speed and rather good control - but the speed seems to decrease when approching Garr. I think its great fun to rush through MC - pulling the next mob just before the current one is down - it forces people to be on their toes.
If we could keep up the speed - without adding too many wipes - i think MC could be fun again, and in the mean time - people will get some gear, and we can be done and ready for Ony ealier - and hopefully more will join in on the Ony-action.
Great Idea DK!
And while we do the MC thigy and we are saved we can stil give a try at BWL @ monday or Thursdays, depends wich day we intend doing MC :D
btw just a fun episode we had last time.. like we pulled 2 giants, 2 corehounds and 1 annihilator, AND DIDENT whipe.. that was awsome! :D
Quote from: nightshadel;155404(hmm think what i am trying to say is: Maybe find a way of making mc fun again?)
u have a point there,
wee have a lot of leaving members in RG2 and alot of new members wee NEED to gear up in some way, yes SOG one is starting up but wee Can´t enshure that evry rg2 member gets the gear priority, so yes wee will need to get people back to MC and raid it some more AND HOPE for that people stays in RG2 when they got their gear, and give it a shot doing progress in BWL.
Its expencive to make progress, but wee all get the common goal and its sucsess, and evry time wee get a boss down people are happy, wee should stick together and work as a team.
il say go back to MC gear up and stick together and do progress