I had a major run in with Luthor tonight, the end result being me leaving the SOG One raid to avoid over-stepping my FM authority and just kicking him from the Guild. Oneangel/Ragefull was there for the whole time and I was talking to him about it on Commander's TS channel as each whisper from Luthor came back in - I basically read all my whispers to Luthor and all Luthor's replies to me, so he can back up anything said here in this thread.
It started with Garagrim publically saying on TS that he was not staying in a raid group that uses such **** rules - that it wasn't fair to all members (he wanted it fairer for Garagrim, not fair to all members) and went on and on about it, criticising the system as unfair.
I corrected him and told him loot rules were posted and explained why they were fair - I also told him that what he wanted was inconsistent (it can't be both fair to all and advantage him) - the 'argument' continued and I eventually said that I was sorry the loot rules did not suit him but that if he wanted an advantage then he should spend his DKP in an RG1 or RG2 raid, not try for freebies and expect favourable treatment in the SOG One raid.
At no point did Luthor step in an make any comment to Garagrim to correct his behaviour.
Garagrim's BS was sufficient that I very nearly kicked him from the TS server but did not.
During this time I had 4 members whisper me saying privately that they were supportive of the system we deployed and they were most happy with it as they recognised that it was for the benefit of the whoel Guild, not just the RG1/2 members.
Garagrim then left TS and continued the argument in gchat
After letting several lines of chat go by I pointed out that if he had read the loot rules he would have understood them.
Luthor then chipped in to gchat telling me that Garagrim had just said he had read the loot rules.
Rather than continue the argument in gchat I took it to whisper with Luthor and told him that if Garagrim really had read the rules then he must be illiterate as the rules were quite clear.
Luthor then started telling me that it was out of order bad-mouthing a player behind his back and out of order.
I told him that I was not going behind anyone's back as what I had said was said on TS to the player directly.
Luthor then told me that he could see only one person (me) who was arguing and that he was not going to listen to me or anyone else going behind anyone's back and that I was being childish.
I pointed out that that if the FMs and Commanders did not talk about these issues we woudl have bugger all management control of the Guild and that such talk was not 'going behind their backs'.
After several more comments from Luthor I eventually lost my patience with him and told him that all he had to do was say the word and I would leave the raid because I was not prepared to put up with this kind of crap.
After some more comments from him he I told him I was leaving the raid.
He then said he had no interest in me leaving the raid - to which I told him it was too late as I had left.
I told him I had no intention of putting up with crap like his and that he had better not dare to ever tell me who I could or could not discuss with other FMs or Commanders.
Basically I would have ripped the guy a new arsehole with my bare hands if he had been sat next to me - he made me so mad with him. He wants all the glory of running the MC raid, but accepts none of the responsibility that comes with the role as a Guild Leader. I refuse to have a Commander flatly tell me what I can and cannot discuss with him when it is a matter that he should have dealt with himself on TS. To then tell an FM that he will ignore the FM is absurd. The guy needs a serious wake up call - because next time I might just be tempted to do the gkick.
Luna is dealing with this I believe as Luthor is still in his trial period as a Commander. Luna, please feel free to talk to Ragefull about this as he was there the whole time and heard everything that was said and typed.
TL.
Take a night to let it all cool off and let's discuss it tomorrow. I agree with you on most points TL, but I would like to have a chat with Luthor myself. You are absolutely correct that this is something Luthor should have picked up himself and dealt with accordingly. I can only guess it is a matter of pride and not nessesarily anything other that caused this conflict with Luthor though.
Small update:
I talked to oneangel about this and he fully agrees with the statements TL made.
lunares
Again a small update on the Luthor issue.
I talked to 2 commanders regarding luthor and their opinion.
His attitude is a bit too bossy. They also heard from other ppl that they have the same opinion. They think he can do a lot of good but atm he doesnt do much. i asked how Luthor was when he was leading and the answer i had was we haven't seem him rly raiding...
I also talked about the bank issue. And it amazed me a bit that they said that they talked about it never dediced it and Luthor basicly made the decission on his own.
I got this info from 2 commanders, i will try to speak to the last commander if he gets online.
Lunares
Bossy, not doing any leading, and making a lot of calls he shouldnt, is he someone we want in that rank?
Also talked with the last of the other commanders.
He said he thought Luthor did good but with the side note he only has been on 2 raids with Luthor as commander so he hasnt seen him too many times in action. He verified though that the bank idea was talked of and nothing decided...
Lunares
Vargen can you post your feedback on the chat with Luthor here please. I think you said you were planning it for this morning......
TL.
I talked to him last night actually. I pretty much just informed him about the issues we discussed, and let him know that he is required to act himself when he is 'leading' raids. I also let him know that he is required to take certain things through the FM's and especially for decisions about banks and so on.
He also let me know that he was looking to provoke that night as he ment the FM's ignored his request for a meeting about the loot system. On this I told him that if he wants to change the loot system, he has to do an official change well before a raid. But I find it hard to believe, as I know for a fact that he hadn't even read the loot rules that night.
Quote from: Vargen;158169He also let me know that he was looking to provoke that night as he ment the FM's ignored his request for a meeting about the loot system.
If i understand it correct he says he wanted to provoke ppl? and he requested a meeting? When did he request it? And if he rly provokes ppl, it is not a good way to discuss things.
Lunares