hello there
last night (tuesday 8.november ) we did very well in BWL. We managed to kill 1st boss.
At the second boss we did gave up after some tries.
i saw some members with really poor resistance coming to kill this boss, resistance that not even good for UBRS.
Well guys please in your free time hit some instances with PuG or what ever you can and get some fire rez gear.
your lack of gear meanes you will set more press on raid = you need more healing to keep you up.
Think of it this way: you are 1 person of the 40 man raid when you have the chance to be a part of the 1/40 man then do your best, if you want our RG2 to make progress.
I wear zero FR gear for the Vaelestraz fight (in fact the only gear I change during the entire instance is my damage cloak for the Onyxia Scale cloak for those shadow flame moments). Resistance is only important to the main tanks in this fight who will be dealing with Vaelestraz 'up close & personal'. I use 'fire shield' just before the buff and then rely entirely on the prayer of healing from the in group priest. Maybe once per month I pop a health pot when the priest has had to emergency heal someone else, but basically for everyone other than the MTs you need your best stats and damage gear possible to beat the S.O.B. within the 3 minutes. It's a fight that demands high DPS not nerfed DPS and it's still a bit 'luck' based - RG1 wiped on it twice last night before downing him on the third try.
In other news though, it was damn nice to hear that Danu were on Firemaw when we wiped on Vael, but we cleared Nefarian before them - they wiped on him about 3 minutes after we killed him :norty:
My 2 cents.
TL.
well to be precise:
classes like priests, druids and pallies need more fire rez than 70FR buffed, thats what i mean about ( some ) members :)
other classes like warlocks, mages and hunter ( dps classes ) need some fire rez but need mostly dps geares since they will be healed and kept alive.
As a priest i run at about 200+ fire resist on the vael fight and normally this is enuff to keep me up, which in turn keeps my group up and also allows the odd spare moment for healng rogues/warriors/whoever.
it may not be strictly needed but it gives me a nice buffer to take a bit of pressure off.
also by easing off the plus healing gear for fire res it cuts my aggro down a bit cos spamming prayer of healing too early on can result in a rapid climb up the aggro ladder which is to be avoided at all costs.:D :norty:
Maybe using a cascade healing system would help. What I mean is having 1 (or 2) healers who have high FR (if you have any) looking after the other healers while the others look after the raid. Not being a healer though, I dont know if this happens anyway so if it does just ignore me :P
All healers are already fully occupied and priests spam heal prayer of healing on the non-tanking groups Stront. In any case, priests should not be taking large fire damage - if they do then they are tanking!
Re Jeebus comments, you may be the only priest wearing that level of FR for that fight Jeeb. I may be totally wrong here, but I believe Luna uses just standard gear here, so you could be severely nerfing your healing with the FR you are wearing. Your HP should be sufficient to survive some damage and then rely solely on PoH to keep you up as it is spam healed the whole fight.
TL.
Is there a way to organize a "sure" AQ 20 for RG2? Now i'll explain why... Tuesday and Thursday r ok, but for most of the other days i can't signup 'cos i dunno if i'll be online at least till the day of the raid if not worst. This means that i'll never gain the higher rank of frostbolt, fireball and am, and so these (at least) 50 easy dps will never come.
Atm i'm wearing a 6/8 sorcerer, i got +270 to frost (250 general) and the only blue item i don't have is thuzadin mantle; there's no way to improve my gear outside a 20/40 men istance.
I've seen that i'm not the only one in this condition, so is it possible to valutate the idea of MC+Ony on Thur and AQ+ZG (or only one, and splitted in 2 groups) on Tue, till we're not at least full epic?
I know it doesn't sounds good, but what can we do in alternative?
Any idea is well accepted :)
Hal
Off topic:
This thread contains some very usefull info for RG2 on Vael. Tactics give you an over all view of the fight but it does not contribute with some of the personal tricks and hints. Would it be possible to make a thread per boss in BWL and then have some RG1 people to post some hints for the fights? Could be something like: "In the Vael fight I do this and this because it helpes me out with this and this". Then another could comment on it and say: "Yeah well if you do this and move over here you can avoid this and that".
The problem with that is that it nerfs the 20 man raids for the others in the guild who rely on having some of those RG2 or RG1 raiders around to support the 20 man runs. If they're locked out then there's a problem.
DKP is also an issue. People start skipping on MC items int he hope of a freebie from AQ20 or ZG.
Progress is forwards to BWL, not backwards to ZG. Motivation would be a serious problem as ZG is cleared every week by a raid filled basically with alts. AQ20 is cleared when it has some well specced mains in the group (alright it struggles when fully alt), but people do nto get 'up' for 20 man runs like this.
People will gear up very quickly in Molten Core as a significant part of RG2 already has the bulk of their T1 set, so in general drops will come quickly to those not yet geared up. Those same drops make ZG/AQ20 drops less attractive.
Re the books - yes these are difficult to get if you cannot make the runs. But they can be bought from AH, so you have an option to get that extra DPS if you cannot support the Guild AQ20 raids.
And for those looking for that final bit of DPS/healing etc: how many of you have got your epic weapon, head piece, shoulders & legs enchanted yet? In RG1 it is very rare to not see those items fully enchanted and combined they make a lot of difference, so go do them now!
TL.
Understood all reasons, i'll try to buy it but i've never seen it, only frost ward V is in AH and i already have it.
For the attachment you're completly right, but i'll start to cry using focus on Crimson Felt Hat and +30 dam on Crackling Staff :sad:
Quote from: Nefrion;161699Off topic:
This thread contains some very usefull info for RG2 on Vael. Tactics give you an over all view of the fight but it does not contribute with some of the personal tricks and hints. Would it be possible to make a thread per boss in BWL and then have some RG1 people to post some hints for the fights? Could be something like: "In the Vael fight I do this and this because it helpes me out with this and this". Then another could comment on it and say: "Yeah well if you do this and move over here you can avoid this and that".
It's there it's called tactics...... only without the RG1 addition. BUT RG1 can add things and that can be better refelected to the person reading it....:D
People shoud not underestimate enchants. BUT choose the item that you enchant wisely.... I enchanted everhting I have. but that is because I will use that gear for a long period. My T2 helm is enchanted and I don't see my Tier 2.5 or even Tier 3 helmet anytime soon :P
The only way to get gear it to put effort into raiding.....the more raids you do the more likely you will get good gear..... And MC will provide us many epic's every week. If we can do a full clearance like last thursday but with less waitiing...we can do Onxyia as well. And is there realy is the need for an extra ZG or AQ run I can discuss this with the commanders....
Quote from: Halakria;161714For the attachment you're completly right, but i'll start to cry using focus on Crimson Felt Hat and +30 dam on Crackling Staff :sad:
That's a completely fair point and one I appreciate, but when the Guild is clearing MC once per week and Onyxia once or twice per week how long do you think it will be before and T1 or T2 head piece drops for you, or an epic weapon drops for you? Not long is the answer, so get prepped, be ready to enchant them with as many of the mats as possible. Like you I would not want to waste all those mats on the items you mentioned, not becaue the difference would not be worth it (because it woudl be worth it) but because they would be about to be replaced.
TL.
Halakria,
let's get back to your gear within 4 weeks.... I bet you have a lot of epix!!!
Make a screeny of your current profile and one for over 4 weeks....
:yahoo:
OKi :)
Talking about healers: I have about 70 max 80 FR during Vael fight (some from T2 and some from [item]Onyxia Scale Cloak[/item] and [item]Drakefire Amulet[/item] for the rest I'm using the equipe that gives me more +Healing and spam regrowth all around (grps AND tanks).
i only use my FR on the first of the 3 drakes in BWL, where i have arround 250, and NR on huhuran where i have arround 290. All other fights i do in my DPS gear, cept for the few i need the ony cloak to avoid getting cooked by shadowflame :)
Quote from: TeaLeaf;161695All healers are already fully occupied and priests spam heal prayer of healing on the non-tanking groups Stront. In any case, priests should not be taking large fire damage - if they do then they are tanking!
Re Jeebus comments, you may be the only priest wearing that level of FR for that fight Jeeb. I may be totally wrong here, but I believe Luna uses just standard gear here, so you could be severely nerfing your healing with the FR you are wearing. Your HP should be sufficient to survive some damage and then rely solely on PoH to keep you up as it is spam healed the whole fight.
TL.
well there is a great diffrence between taking 1400 fire damage than ( 1400 fire damage, 1200 resisted ) and btw all RG1 priests have their full tie1 and tie2 to sawp for diffrent fights that requires resistance... all i want to say is you are as a mage in really good hands thats why you dont need mutch fire rez for that fight.
As Paladin i use a minimum of FR for this fight. I have my Aura and thats like 60 and then the gear boost me to around 90-something, and that seems PLENTY for this fight
MMm that's good to read for me, I sad there with 198 FR.... but took some massive damage to.... It's a combination of good gear then lower the FR.... ( I mean good gear for all people, so the healing output will be higher).
D.
Well it is a viscious circle for the healers.
FR gear -> Less healing -> More FR gear -> Even less healing.
Can your healing compensate for the lack of FR gear then its not a problem
I can confirm that i was absoloutly no problem to heal most of the time.
3 of the times i died after only hitting him 1 or 2 times or before i even reached him. only once id i spend any realy amount of time hitting him!
so once i died there is no point in healing me
Quote from: Alaha;161742...and btw all RG1 priests have their full tie1 and tie2 to sawp for diffrent fights that requires resistance...
We do? :whistle:
On topic: I switch to some FR gear in my bags in order to nerf my healing a bit, in an attempt to not get BA early on in the fight.
Quote from: Nefrion;161752Well it is a viscious circle for the healers.
FR gear -> Less healing -> More FR gear -> Even less healing.
Can your healing compensate for the lack of FR gear then its not a problem
less fr gear for a priest meanes taking more fire dmg, and when you are dead you can't heal at all, so as i said before imagin you are taking 1400 fire damage every 5 sec and you have to heal a party of yours and yourself..
or you are taking 1400 fire damage (1200 resisted )... wich of the situations better for you as a priest?
In this game every instance and every fight needs diffrent gear and you can't wear same gear for every situation.
Have you ever though about the patterns and reciepes that requires certain reputation to buy: like the Nature resistance geares wich needs certain reputation with Cenarion Circle... or the Fire rez gear wich needs reputation with Thorium dudes... why?
while you can get better geares in MC wich have some fire rez on, why should i go and increase my reputation with factions to buy reciepes that needs huge amount of recorses to make...why?
thats only because if you want to succeed your attendance you need a decent gear.
Yes the Fire rez gear sux in healing, but!!!! it will keep you alive active as a 1 person in the raid. you are no good in the raid dead even with tie1.tie.2 or tie.2498 thats my point
Quote from: Alaha;161759less fr gear for a priest meanes taking more fire dmg, and when you are dead you can't heal at all, so as i said before imagin you are taking 1400 fire damage every 5 sec and you have to heal a party of yours and yourself..
or you are taking 1400 fire damage (1200 resisted )... wich of the situations better for you as a priest?
I'll take the better healing & lower FR please Bob.
On my priest alt:Normal Prayer of Healing (not the AQ book rank) provides 1100 healing every 3 seconds
Allowing a full 0.5 seconds to recast (which is way more than you need) this equates to healing 1,571 every 5 seconds.
So, this means I can take 1,400 fire damage every 5 seconds for the duration of the fight.
It also means I can heal my entire group and keep them at pretty much 100% for the duration of the fight.
Assuming that you enchant some +healing (which I have not) the results should be even better.
If you crit at all (I ignored crits in the bove) then you would heal even more. My base crit heal is about 1,600 every 3 seconds.
Heal FTW. FR for the bin.
TL.
Quote from: TeaLeaf;161773I'll take the better healing & lower FR please Bob.
:blink:
Don't get me involved in this dirty business of yours :norty:
Remember you can be unlucky with Burning Adrenaline.
Yep, but there's nothing we can do about that so it's kind of irrelevant.
TL.
I use about 40 more fire res for vael then i normally use in the rest of BWL. It is not needed since you spam heal there with prayer. And getting 1400 damage? I get about 800 max if i saw it right and might even be less. Just find yourself a combo of fire res and plus healing which suits you.
Lunares
Tossing you mana regen and replacing it with fire resistance is a very smart thing to do here, but tossing a lot of +healing for fire res is the lesser option here
but of course to learn the fight and how to heal the fight FR is very usefull since it buys you some time to react, if the control goes better you could swap fire res for + healing and + dmg
As a tank on vael I go for as much FR as I have in my bag :)
Alaha didn't say which classes had low FR, if any melee do, specially tanks then i assume the message is aimed at them, Ragnarh regularly spanks tanks at vael if we have less than 200FR
Well the main problem with RG2 @ Vael atm is lacking of dps, the healing part is the minor problem. We also are having problems at tanking part. This should hovever resolve once i can get to go on my main again!! The initial aggro and pull is very important, and since i have done this many times before... The healing on tanks also needs to be perfectly coordinated. the tanks 3-5 needs to have minimum heals but enough so they dont die, and MT1 max healing MT2 ½ heal (hard to mesuare eh?) We just need to get the hang of the healing/tanking part. The dps should go up once we done a few more MC runs (3-4) or more as we have many new members in group.
imo this is the problem, and time will solve this, until then we can only practice our tryes on Razorgore and get this one on farm and get some more experience on Vael...
What's your raid DPS in MC atm?
TL.
sorry to say i dont have a addon for it mate... link me one plz
Well yes gear means a lot but also experiance counts. We have only just started to get Razorgore down again after finding tactics that work best for us. At this time a lot of rg2 are new and requires a lot of training up, so with the vael fight it can be quite a lot to take in with what is needed. I think with more time in MC gearing people up and improving their listening and playing skills we can get further and further in BWL and get past Vael in no time.
SWstats is the best one to get. Highly configurable and a great raid management tool.
TL.
It's really simple _really_. You need to get a number of things sorted.
1. Tanks and aggro management. You need the warriors to work togehter and allways know who will be the next warrior up if the one currently tanking gets blown to bits. Then the next warrior needs to reposition FAST or all the healers will be knocked to the wall and he dies. When the first warrior gets BA ROGUES vanish.
2. Healing on the warrior tanking must be in order. This means DRUIDS! You have unlimited mana. Some with improved regrowth should SPAM this, and one or two should use top rank HT for burst healing, prefrebly with 1,5 seconds appart in casts. Priests keep your own groups up, and pallies tend to the rogues. If some groups are left without healing, you use the 'spare' healers to keep them up.
3. Now you can start worrying about DPS :flirty:
Quote from: lunares;161804I use about 40 more fire res for vael then i normally use in the rest of BWL. It is not needed since you spam heal there with prayer. And getting 1400 damage? I get about 800 max if i saw it right and might even be less. Just find yourself a combo of fire res and plus healing which suits you.
Lunares
well my fire rez gear is not that bad on my priest, i get around 155 fire rez + potion of magic rez for 3 min ( 50 all rez ) wich i dunno why will give me only 37 rez... so combat log tells me 1400 fire damae~1050 resisted.
but there is one more factor : spell interruption during taking dmg and sometimes a bit lag and delay in command ( this is an online game after all ^^ ) so better really do best to shield myself and keep spam prayer of healing... but suddenly boom!!! teleported in front of Vael XD
Quote from: Halakria;161714Understood all reasons, i'll try to buy it but i've never seen it, only frost ward V is in AH and i already have it.
For the attachment you're completly right, but i'll start to cry using focus on Crimson Felt Hat and +30 dam on Crackling Staff :sad:
Well, there are plenty of books in AH, ut prices go from 200G to 280G (aprox, at least the warlock ones)
I suggest you to join AQ20 raids, they are fun, they are easy (at least before you get to Osirian), and the books drops very often!!! And also you will support the AQ20 group and the nice drops that there are, you will be able to do something different and so.
If you have the time go AQ20 and ZG. An if not, just spend a huge load of gold in the books and forget about the head and leggins enchants from ZG.:D
Now this post comes up again, it remind me on reading how much FR I could need....because th 200FR from last time was over kill :P
I suggest al RG2 players should read here......
Quote from: Knabbel;162651I suggest al RG2 players should read here......
And you think the Rg2 members who doesnt read here see that?:devil: .
Lunares
Quote from: lunares;162734And you think the Rg2 members who doesnt read here see that?:devil: .
Lunares
Make raidleaders spam that rg2 should read forums atleast twice a week! :P
Quote from: Luminance;162894Make raidleaders spam that rg2 should read forums atleast twice a week! :P
Ok lets make another experiment to see who reads and when....