As Akall briefly mentioned in his farewell post, he would like to keep his alt in SOG. I guess this is something that others that might leave in the future also might wish, so we could just as well do the discussion around the topic now:
Do we want to let people that leave the guild with their main still be able to have alts here?
My main thought is that there are quite some people I'm really sad to see leave, and I would personally be glad to have the around from time to time, even if it's only on an alt.
Now we have also said that we want to have alts of both Bastet and TL (and Tanales, if he wants to?) in here, but than again, that's a bit different since they are gonna help us out with guidance (and their vast amount of wisdom :flirty:) on leading the guild.
It could also be worth noticing that Spiritus has his alt(/main?) in another guild, which is also a principal question we should address.
What I think for myself, is that this doesn't need to be a problem. If people leave and want to keep an alt here, we just ask 'em which alt(s), and also just make sure that we don't get the situation where non-guildies take alts in and out of the guild frequently.
Thoughts?
We had extensive discussions on this difficult issue in the past and whilst SOG was a raiding guild the conclusion was strongly that SOG should hold the main character )and alts), but not just alts. The rationale for that decision is weakened if you are not a raiding guild but still holds some examination. Is SOG weakened by having some members purely there as alts and not their main?
As an aside I would not refer to Bastet/TL/Tanales as alts, I would maybe refer to us in a consulting role, helping out with the transition etc rather than confusing us with being an alt member, so that people do not get confused. Although tbh I am delighted to have been offered the chance to retain an alt here.
TL.
re, ex officer alts, ive been thinking about a new rank to add that will replace marshall, something like Advisor, which should also include those members that give frequent hep/advice/tips ( sort of thanks for helping out, we apreciate the help)
regarding the main/alt concern, honestly its a hard decision,
first of all, it should only be available to trusted ppl
2nd, the alt used frequentely ( its usless to have an inactive alt, of a "departed" member)
3rd, only 1 alt allowed
what do you think?
Quote from: TeaLeaf;176237Is SOG weakened by having some members purely there as alts and not their main?
With some persons, I actually think SOG could benefit from keeping an alt in the guild even though the main leaves, simply because they are great contributors to the guild chat and forum - in general improving the social quality of the guild.
The only problem and challenge here lies in deciding who these "special chosen" should be - which relates to what Gorion said about
trusted people (Akall, as I used as example in the first post, is one I would say qualifies for this).
Quote from: Gorion;176271first of all, it should only be available to trusted ppl
2nd, the alt used frequentely ( its usless to have an inactive alt, of a "departed" member)
3rd, only 1 alt allowed
Re Advisor: sounds like a good idea!
Those points you put there for who should be allowed to keep (one) alt in the guild also sounds fair. The problem, as I also mentioned above, will be how to decide who is "trusted
enough" to be given this option. For one, we could say that it will only be people that have been members for an extended period of time (like Akall for instance, almost a year (April 1st)).
was thinking about a year or so, plus members who really helped out the guild (ofcourse a reasonable anmount of time needs to have passed say, 9+ months?)
Again, game for that, although this needs to be monitored. If advosirs were to stay inactive for too long a time, they would need to be removed.
They are there for a purpose - the alternative, if its more honorary might be Veteran.
I'm going to say that I'm against it simply due to the 'favouritism' accusation. I don't want guildies moaning 'why do you let this person keep an alt in guild and not him/her?', I can see this becoming a little contentious in cases other than our consultant friends Bastet, TL, Tanales and Co who have a clear role.
I would instead like to propose that SOG, Genesis and Redemption members hold a shared general chat channel. I'm not familiar with wow's chat channel mechanics but can we hold a 'private' channel ie access by password or invitation?
I think the shared channel would be superior from a 'social' view as ppl would be able to be on which ever character they like and not have to switch over just to talk to ppl in SOG.
I also believe that it would make policing the actual guild membership much easier.
Also it would allow guilds to hold private conversations in their own guild channels.
Anyhow that's my 2 cents.
hmm good idea
The 'favoritism' aspect with letting alts stay is something that might be a problem, I'll agree to that.
Quote from: Sheperdbook;176323I would instead like to propose that SOG, Genesis and Redemption members hold a shared general chat channel. I'm not familiar with wow's chat channel mechanics but can we hold a 'private' channel ie access by password or invitation?
I've actually thought the same thoughts myself, so if this is something that is possible (didn't SOG and Danu have such a thing way back when we co-operated with 'em?), we could try to work it out.
The only thing I would add here, and I hope I don't step on any toes now, is that I personally would prefer to limit such a thing to SOG and Genesis. I have made good friends with some that now have moved to Redemption, but the main part of those folks are the old NG crew, and to be honest I really don't feel they have that much of a connection with SOG (and what we once were).
Did I just sound like a cranky ass? :getmecoat:
But than again, this won't solve the "problem" with those that leave for other guilds and we really would like to still have around (I bring up Akall as an example again, as I at least really like the guy).
One way to just put a kind of limit to who can get an offer, is as Gorion mentioned, to say that you must have been a member for at least 9 months (or something like it) to be allowed to keep an alt in here...
I'm really very ambivalent as toward details but I fear shouts of 'favouritism' again. We can make one I suppose in the instant future with Genesis, especially as the 'Consultants' are kicking around here, and then leave Redemption as a future proposal (wait till we have quite a few in-guild suggesting so; as will most likely happen at some point).
Personally there are ppl in both guilds that I'd like to talk to once so every often but I'm generally fine with whispering!
I wouldn't advise a multitude of channels before anyone suggests it as that would get confusing (anyone remember my SOG pally chats in BWL General? :narnar:).
guild rules = no alts. that is what i've been adjusting myself to.
but maybe i should take time and think about this case.
need some pointers for all direcktions
got some myselfe here:
*raiding guild
*social
*big/small guild
*just friends guild
*PG12 rated or PG18?? rated guild
*democraty with polls about this?
*or do we chose for the guilds "best"
give me some help here folks, i'm thinking while at work :doh:
On the alts comment:
No alts forces members to join other Guilds (assuming we're talking about people who have their mains in SOG).
Not a brilliant side effect for SOG.
If no main, then the justification for having an alt here is extremely low as the potential damage to the Guild is much higher. However the damage is higher for a raiding guild and if SOG's role is to be a social guild then it matters far less.
TL.
tnx TL. need more innput here i think.
Would depend, as TL said, for a social guild it matters far less, if at all since the members are just there to enjoy one anothers company w/o expectance of raids. For a raiding guild it would depend on the person, since some ppl tend to advertise other guilds, maybe without meaning to do so, possibly by linking loot, or bragging about boss kills. Thus making it a hard call.
I'm still having a bit of a hard time deciding what my final view on this matter shall be :g:
We are at least for now a pure social guild, and as both Bastet and TL mentioned, having alts whose main are in another guild doesn't matter that much. After some time, I assume that raiding will become a more hot topic, and than the complications on that kind of alts be a bit bigger - but on the other hand, it doesn't need to be that big a problem either.
Firstly, I don't think this is something that is gonna go for very many of our x-members. I assume that those that want to keep an halt here, only wants that because they feel a really strong bond to the guild, so this ain't a problem we'll have with "new" folks.
Secondly, this can also be something we offer for a limited amount of time, and than also for people that have left with their main recently (say since the release of TBC or something).
Now this may be the "favoritism problem" kicking in already, since I have at least a few folks I would really like to stay around, if even only on an alt - so I really don't know actually. But I think us trying to be flexible ain't a bad think...
my mind is not settled on anything either. and ye i agree again with bob.
and maybe see how it works for a while. and if there is becomming a big amount of "threath" from other guilds, we should make "harder" rules.
only teaelle, bastet and tanales alts will be allowed to stay,
and Main members with their alts.
re: I assume that those that want to keep an alt here, only wants that because they feel a really strong bond to the guild
they shouldnt have left the guild in the 1st place
maybe this is extreme from your pov, but its the reason phase 2 exists, and remember no one voted against
I agree w/ G. :)
Quote from: Gorion;177422and remember no one voted against
I was of the impression that the only thing we had agreed on was to temporarily kick all alts, to get rid of those that won't stay in guild, not to not invite back those that actually want to keep a connection with SOG - the latter I though was still under some kind of discussion.
But fine, I don't have any problems with this decision. However, I think we at the same time should make an announcement (as briefly was suggested somewhere else) that we will invite back those that left during the last weeks (when they thought the guild was gonna be disbanded etc.) and now want to return with their main. As also suggested, we should put some kind of date limit to this - end of February is perhaps a bit too early now, but say a month: withing the 15th of March.
This announcement should than also be stickied in the public section (so those that have gotten their forum access revoked also can read it :)
QuoteThe main reasons are:
Left over alts from members who recentely left us
re: when they thought the guild was gonna be disbanded
ille make a draft on it, some ppl already returned, incentos and dillinja
Please make sure to point out our possition in sog clearly then, as to avoid confusion.