CSSource has been freezing up quite a lot on my PC recently. The game sort of stutters and often ends up playing a loop of 1/5 a seconds worth of audio. ctrl+alt+del doesn't seem to do anything, the computer stops responding, and I have to hit the reset or off button. It's been happening quite a bit more than "usual" recently. Any ideas or suggestions as to what might be causing this? Is it "normal" for CSS or should I potentially be backing up my files assuming a hdd or something is about to die...?:sideways:
It's definately not normal. :blink:
You could try a reinstall of steam to see if that helps.
have you upgraded your audio or graphics drivers recently? If you have try rolling back - if you havent make sure you try latest official drivers for audio/graphics
other possible causes:
- heat
- dirty contacts on card - try removing/reinserting AGP/PCI/PCIe cards which will cleant the contacts of any residue which builds up over time.
- corrupt file - can be tricky to track down
- background process stealing CPU time
- slow hard disk causing delays in delivering audio files to processor
Can't think of any others off top of head but its not always clear cut as to the cause.
Is it only CS, not any other games?
Quote from: BlueBall;176932have you upgraded your audio or graphics drivers recently? If you have try rolling back - if you havent make sure you try latest official drivers for audio/graphics
other possible causes:
- heat
- dirty contacts on card - try removing/reinserting AGP/PCI/PCIe cards which will cleant the contacts of any residue which builds up over time.
- corrupt file - can be tricky to track down
- background process stealing CPU time
- slow hard disk causing delays in delivering audio files to processor
Can't think of any others off top of head but its not always clear cut as to the cause.
I'm running Omega 3.8.330 with my 9800pro so I guess it could be that, but I tend to have problems changing graphics drivers (not least as there seem to be 2 or 3 options from ATI for my 9800pro AIW) Audio drivers haven't changed in ages.
1. could be heat, though I doubt it - will try to keep track of temps next time it happens.
2. I'm hesitant to try this as my case is a pain to get into - any idea what sheet material (e.g. baking paper) I could use to make sure the gfx card is isolated from the casing?
3. I guess reinstalling is the brute force check here
4. unlikely to be other processes unless it's something specific conflicting - any idea if Steam dumps log files on crashing?
5. The hdd should be pretty quick, though if it's getting old I guess that could be it (chkdsk came back happy the other day though)
Quote from: delanvital;176966Is it only CS, not any other games?
Only game other than CS I've played in the past month or two was GTA-SA for a few days and that coped fine. Other programs have been working fine, or at least better than CSS
I am not too familiar with steam but by right-clicking on cs source, go properties, then local files you can check the integrity of the files and also redownload I think? Might be lucky to spare you the brute force option?
according to ATI tray tools my gpu is artifacting at it's default gpu speed a bit (though it can manage almost 10% over it's default ram clocks) so I guess that could be it?
temps are about:
sys cpu
39 & 47 idle (fan mid-low)
42 & 56 load (fan mid-low)
42 & 50 load (fan high)
Quote from: suicidal_monkey;176995according to ATI tray tools my gpu is artifacting at it's default gpu speed a bit (though it can manage almost 10% over it's default ram clocks) so I guess that could be it?
temps are about:
sys cpu
39 & 47 idle (fan mid-low)
42 & 56 load (fan mid-low)
42 & 50 load (fan high)
Temps seem OK.
This may seem silly but sometimes Overclocking a GPU can stop artifacting. You don't have to overclock much, just get it away from default speeds - I know this cures probs with several nvidia cards, try adding 5 or 10MHz to both core and memory of GPU
I messed about a bit and I think it might have been the audio settings. I've reduced it from high to medium and there've been some slight jitters but no serious freezing. Audigy2 is my sound card though.
GPU is running with slightly underclocked gpu but overclocked gpu-ram... made no appreciable difference as far as I can tell! overclocking the gpu seems to just create loads of graphical glitches :)
Quote from: suicidal_monkey;177000I messed about a bit and I think it might have been the audio settings. I've reduced it from high to medium and there've been some slight jitters but no serious freezing. Audigy2 is my sound card though.
GPU is running with slightly underclocked gpu but overclocked gpu-ram... made no appreciable difference as far as I can tell! overclocking the gpu seems to just create loads of graphical glitches :)
Might be worth going to:
http://uk.europe.creative.com/support/downloads/su.asp
and updating your drivers.
NB You HAVE to use IE for this site as the autoupdate feature only works with IE not FF (FF is ok if you have the IE tab plugin installed). This is the least painful way to update audio drivers for creative cards :)
Quote from: BlueBall;177007Might be worth going to:
http://uk.europe.creative.com/support/downloads/su.asp
and updating your drivers.
NB You HAVE to use IE for this site as the autoupdate feature only works with IE not FF (FF is ok if you have the IE tab plugin installed). This is the least painful way to update audio drivers for creative cards :)
much less painful so far, hopefully it will remain so!:flirty:
...edit: I
think it worked. Several errors and stuff appeared during the install, but none that I had time to look as as they usually happened on auto during the install or during restart. I think they were more warnings that the installer was expecting to hit, so basically bad automation user-feedback on Creative's part ;)
hmmm ... something's still not right. I can recreate the jittery-ness by walking to the site of long A on dust2 and looking out from the corner. If I look at the ground the game resumes smoothness, look up, game starts to chug (sort of like 1fps) ...It's a sort of disconnection rather than slow gfx because I keep getting the "picked-up-a-gun sound"
I tried re-downloading CSS to no avail, I guess I could totally reinstall steam, but I have a feeling this is a graphics or mainboard issue. Of course the gfx issue could be due to a hard drive being rubbish at delivering textures or something... argh
virus scan?
Quote from: suicidal_monkey;177301...It's a sort of disconnection rather than slow gfx because I keep getting the "picked-up-a-gun sound"
I think I know what your going on about now.
Are you running lots of other Programs, I.E MSN, Any open Windows or X-Fire. . .
Whilst you are playing?
If so, close them down when you are playing, and only keep ones that you REALLY need open.
It might help, it might not.
And a faster internet Connection or More RAM. or Processor or more Hard drive Space.
Quote from: Eternaluk;177308And a faster internet Connection or More RAM. or Processor or more Hard drive Space.
This is the same pc that had no problems with this game 3 months ago, ...I will try shutting off all extra resource-hogging programs ... but I'm still afraid that it's some driver issue/conflict.
Quote from: suicidal_monkey;177309but I'm still afraid that it's some driver issue/conflict.
Ah, ok. :blink:
Stuff I don't understand. ^^
shut down all but what appeared to be essential to windows, still happens. fps readings drop from the normal 30-50 down to <10 according to net_graph, and that's when it's not too horrific. Gah.
I installed the latest ATI/AMD driver pack and it seems to have helped, but the official ATI drivers conflict with my iMon (remote/VFD/media application) software and tend to freeze XP within a minute or so of both being active :(
Im currently having some related issues with my steam..
Getting some connecting errors, Game stalls on retrieving server info 80% of the time... if im lucky and get past that it stalls at sending client info... And if im so lucky getting in most of the time it stalls with a sound loop...
Tried everything so far, all drivers up to date, no hardware failures whatsoever... gettting a bit frustrated here :S
Eventho i found a post about Creative sounds cards tonight on steam forums.. Basicly it said that apperently creative SB cards have some issues with which PCI slot its in, they can fail if they arent put in the closest to the GFX card AGP/PCI-e port, and this results in a lockup with a soundloop..
Ill try move my Creative card a slot up and see if its true tomorrow..
Else im gonna try a full reinstall of steam... (all those updates to download :S)
Quote from: kregoron;177350Eventho i found a post about Creative sounds cards tonight on steam forums.. Basicly it said that apperently creative SB cards have some issues with which PCI slot its in, they can fail if they arent put in the closest to the GFX card AGP/PCI-e port, and this results in a lockup with a soundloop..
Ill try move my Creative card a slot up and see if its true tomorrow..
Else im gonna try a full reinstall of steam... (all those updates to download :S)
My SB card couldn't be further away from the graphisc card if it tried. Additionally, the physical distnce the card is away from GP is irrelevant as it depends on th layou and line routing of the particular board; remember that your SB card is PCI and your GPU is prob AGP or PCIe so the signals from one slot type to anoth have to go through various busses and interfaces.
I know it sound odd, and shouldnt have the slightest to do with what slot the creative card is inserted in, im just bringing on what they wrote in the post :P
http://support.steampowered.com/cgi-bin/steampowered.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=150&p_created=1093320749&p_sid=nKhdZgui&p_lva=&p_sp=cF9zcmNoPTEmcF9zb3J0X2J5PSZwX2dyaWRzb3J0PSZwX3Jvd19jbnQ9NCZwX3Byb2RzPTY0JnBfY2F0cz0wJnBfcHY9MS42NDsyLnUwJnBfY3Y9JnBfc2VhcmNoX3R5cGU9YW5zd2Vycy5zZWFyY2hfbmwmcF9wYWdlPTEmcF9zZWFyY2hfdGV4dD1zb3VuZGNhcmQ*&p_li=&p_topview=1
Ill investigate a bit why steam claims so..
my hardware setup has not changed in the past 6 months to a year, and this problem is relatively new. I think it may have been due to the latest OMEGA drivers for ATI not playing nicely... of course the official ones break my pc in other ways so I can't win :sideways: (...where's that smiley bashing into the brick wall gone?) ...going to try the old Omega drivers next:rolleyes:
If your setup has not changed, it is either faulty hardware or software problems. Since the machine can run other games fine, I would say stick to the software issues. What problems occur when you use the ATI drivers?
Quote from: delanvital;177392What problems occur when you use the ATI drivers?
My computer case is the silverstone LC11M model with a Soundgraph VFD (disply) and iMon remote control software etc. There seems to be some sort of conflict between the official ATI driver software and the iMon software, although it seems less reproducile than when it last occurred (the old iMon drivers that I got last year with the case made XP freeze up totally after about 1 minute of running if the official old ATI drivers were used)
I used to use the OMEGA version of the radeon drivers as this did not conflict with iMon. Then iMon updated from 4.xx to 5.xx of it's software and the official ATI drivers worked fine with it. Since then ATI, OMEGA, and iMON have all updated their drivers/software. The new OMEGAs appear to have been a factor in the jitteryness and crashing in CSSource because with the official ATI drivers Source seems better (not perfect but better). However I noticed the same old XP-freeze thing happen a few times after I'd updated to official ATI drivers. This was avoided by shutting down the iMon software asap after booting. Though having said that the pc has been happily running with iMon this morning ... bloody software conflicts, hard to trace the actual cause. It
might have something to do with the official ATI drivers using dot.net for the Control centre software as I seem to recall basic official drivers being fine. argh. def new pc sometime this year!
edit: if I shut down the iMon software and then try to restart it again the .exe appears in the task manager but the program fails to open (doesn't use up cpu cycles either) and is not running according to a related program that requires it. All very annoying really.
WHIW try cleaning out the old Omegas completely? I remember uninstalling them was rather difficult (that is, to uninstall completely)...
grrr ... thought it was all happy but then it happened again. With the old OMEGA drivers. booo. It did however manage to notice it had an error this last time and I didn't have to reset the pc...
unfortunately it didn't manage to dump the error message or whatever it said it was going to do. Best I've got is this from the admin tools event viewer:
QuoteFaulting application hl2.exe, version 0.0.0.0, faulting module datacache.dll, version 0.0.0.0, fault address 0x0000b413.
0000: 41 70 70 6c 69 63 61 74 Applicat
0008: 69 6f 6e 20 46 61 69 6c ion Fail
0010: 75 72 65 20 20 68 6c 32 ure hl2
0018: 2e 65 78 65 20 30 2e 30 .exe 0.0
0020: 2e 30 2e 30 20 69 6e 20 .0.0 in
0028: 64 61 74 61 63 61 63 68 datacach
0030: 65 2e 64 6c 6c 20 30 2e e.dll 0.
0038: 30 2e 30 2e 30 20 61 74 0.0.0 at
0040: 20 6f 66 66 73 65 74 20 offset
0048: 30 30 30 30 62 34 31 33 0000b413
0050: 0d 0a ..
Quote from: suicidal_monkey;177472grrr ...
Did you ever test the integrity of the games in steam?
Quote from: delanvital;177480Did you ever test the integrity of the games in steam?
I tested the integrity of CSS, defragged it, and re-downloaded it. I guess I could totally remove steam (if I can remember what my password was!! :rolleyes:) and reinstall that...could be hl2 I guess? Chkdsk showed up no problems either so if my hdd is dying it's doing so cunningly...
Who knows, this might do the trick:
Delete BLOB-file and such (but then you need to put in your password and such again)...
Quote from: suicidal_monkey;1769852. I'm hesitant to try this as my case is a pain to get into - any idea what sheet material (e.g. baking paper) I could use to make sure the gfx card is isolated from the casing?
I couldnt help but notice this. Is your pc by any chance a dell? Don't try shoving foreign objects into your pc. I could link you to some proper padding if you want to
You really should get inside that case. If you dont want to do it then maybe you know someone who can.
It might be that your fans, and heat sinks are full of dust. Plus when I have any kind of major problem like this I always reseat my ram and graphics card. All the vibration inside your case can sometimes vibrate them loose. If you do get these suckers out of your motherboard, check the contacts to see that they are nice and shiny.
Optional....:49_49: :
If they are dull or dirty then get a pencil rubber and gently rub at them...... the connections that is :blink: . When you have finished give them a little clean with methylated spirits to remove any dirt.
Well, I completely removed Steam and have reinstalled it and downloaded CSS into it. At first glance it seems generally smoother. I will try playtest tonight but I really must work solidly for a month now :(
Quote from: Twine;177609Is your pc by any chance a dell?
I hope not! I built it into it's current case which is a 10cm high silverstone (it was supposed to become the htpc when I got a new pc but I have yet to buy this new pc!) which makes things quite cramped and the gpu is in a 90-degree adapter and is quite near to the casing. It often fails to boot with and graphics after it's been in transit (e.g. going to a lan) and getting into it is a pita (the rem ovable cover is the bottom of the case and as it's a desktop/media format I tend to have a lot of stuff sitting on top of it!
interestingly enough the re-installation of Steam and the rolling back to the older OMEGA drivers has also fixed (or stopped causing) a problem I had with AVG which was having mini-crashes whenever I tried to look at the test results/test centre, though it was fine for scanning files aside from this so it may well have been something in the graphics drivers! good grief :) It appears to not be broke now so I'm not going to try and fix it any further until it dies on me again! ;)
Yeah, 'don't fix it if it ain't broke' is a lesson I learn't the hard way a long time ago. :g:
well, it seems okay-ish, though it still suffers from some sort of blockage in the data, be it audio/video/network. It's as if every now and then the game runs out of data to process for a second or so. At least it didn't totally choke up and stop this time...
Quote from: suicidal_monkey;177931be it audio/video/network.
or hard disk? :g:
Quote from: Whitey;177932or hard disk? :g:
could be ... but wouldn't I notice other things going wrong and not just CSS?
(I t just froze up again, though at least it let me get back to the desktop this time)
Quote from: suicidal_monkey;177933could be ... but wouldn't I notice other things going wrong and not just CSS?
(I t just froze up again, though at least it let me get back to the desktop this time)
I would have thought so and It's more likely to be a graphics/driver issue from what you've posted so far but I just thought I'd add it to the mix as you said it was like a blockage in the data.
hmmm ... could it be the power supply getting too hot and/or dying a slow death?
Air coming out the back is pretty dang warm
the crashes are still happening but now CSS gradually falls back to the desktop and lets me carry on without hitting reset ... except for just now when it sort of shut off the video (and I presume the rest of the pc apart from the fans or something)
Quote from: suicidal_monkey;178239hmmm ... could it be the power supply getting too hot and/or dying a slow death?
Air coming out the back is pretty dang warm
the crashes are still happening but now CSS gradually falls back to the desktop and lets me carry on without hitting reset ... except for just now when it sort of shut off the video (and I presume the rest of the pc apart from the fans or something)
Find a prog that monitors your voltage and check out what it is when loading games and putting pressure on the system in general. Check the +5v and see how much it drops below the 5v. AFAIK 4.7-4.8-ish is absolute minimum.
Quote from: delanvital;178241Find a prog that monitors your voltage and check out what it is when loading games and putting pressure on the system in general. Check the +5v and see how much it drops below the 5v. AFAIK 4.7-4.8-ish is absolute minimum.
Hmmm. According to MBM5 (motherboard monitor) with ambient approx 20C
SYS CPU +5V
26 32 4.81 after boot
37 44 4.78 idle
41 51 4.73 load (varies 4.70-4.73-4.76, normally the upper two)
41 53 4.70 max observed with a short bit of gpu straining (varies 4.70-4.73)...should I be worried, ...assuming MBM is getting the readings correct?!
The heat pouring out of the psu (which I think has to extract all the heat from the PCI/AGP cards too) builds up something approaching hairdryer levels (i.e. GPU/PCI card surround may be rather hotter than the system. Air coming out the vent near the cpu is practically cool in comparison. might need to do some cleaning and some modding) after a few minutes of running.:ohmy:
...on the other hand I've found a reasonable number of other similar-sounding crash error threads by searching for "datacache.dll" as that's what crops up when windows manages to throw up an error message most of the time. appears to be something between directx/audio/graphics ... i.e. something they cannot pin down :/
Just an idea... to check if the PSU can not keep up, howabout jumping a second PSU and add to the setup, f.i. to the heavy parts like the gfx-card and then check the readings on your normal PSU to see if it takes off the load? If you get back in the 4.85-5 range by doing so, I would say the PSU is underpowered. If not, the PSU might be failling. I am no wiz, but 4.7 is too low IMHO.
Quote from: delanvital;178370Just an idea... to check if the PSU can not keep up, howabout jumping a second PSU and add to the setup, f.i. to the heavy parts like the gfx-card and then check the readings on your normal PSU to see if it takes off the load? If you get back in the 4.85-5 range by doing so, I would say the PSU is underpowered. If not, the PSU might be failling. I am no wiz, but 4.7 is too low IMHO.
good plan ... I will see if I have any old psu's... the one in the case is a custom size that came with the case...and it used to do okay! Might try cleanig out the dust and fluff, might be partly a heat issue too.
Quote from: suicidal_monkey;178373good plan ... I will see if I have any old psu's... the one in the case is a custom size that came with the case...and it used to do okay! Might try cleanig out the dust and fluff, might be partly a heat issue too.
It sure is. The hotter the PSU is the less it delivers.