Already before we've started, it seems like the schedule we had for raiding is breaking up already. As we said in the last [post=180953]announcement[/post], our goal was to start raiding by next week.
The [post=181080]the poll[/post] we made, asking who wants to raid or not, the results are as of now (poll closing the 15th):
Yes: Deloris, Drazila, Incentos, jianlock, Lexander, Lucian, Marduk, Myanmar, Nefertem, Othbarty, Plight, Reén, saori, shadowspell, Sniped, spiritus, Theoline, tonxik, Vanguish
No: Bob, Cadriella, DonnieKingo, grevins, Risingstar, Sandrion, sheepy, Sheperdbook, Azurei (Azu is listed with a 'yes', but I've talked with him, and it was a mis-vote)
This makes 19 'yes' and 9 'no', a total of 28 people have voted.
If you take a look in the attunement thread, the following are now attuned for Karazhan: Othbarty,Theoline, Lexander, Marduk, Lucian
The following are somewhere in the attunement quest line: Drazila, Nefertem, Spiritus, Arkhon, Vanguish, Sandrion, Tenilia, Threbrilith
From the vote, we should be enough people to have one Karazhan group (but lacking healers - as expected), but when you look at who is attuned, we are not there at all yet. What also worries me a bit, is the fact that only 28 persons in the guild (out of about 90) have voted - that is only 1/3. Doesn't people care?
We definitely need to discuss this on the TS meeting (which hopefully will be in not too long?), but we need to give some kind of message to the members that things are not going to plan. We said we were gonna post a poll about raiding days shortly after the first poll, but it is obviously not of any use to to so before we have more people ready for raiding.
So just some kind of short message, stating that things are put on hold, and that we urge people (at least those that want to raid) to hurry up with their attunement, is what I think needs to be done right now.
Quote from: Bob;184419only 28 persons in the guild (out of about 90) have voted - that is only 1/3. Doesn't people care?
One of the things that builds a community feeling within the Guild is an active forum. One of the constant battles we faced was to get people to participate on the forums - it's a sort of self-fulfilling prophecy: when they particiapte on the forums they find more content to make them want to participate on the forums, but when they do not participate they find less content and are less likely to want to participate!
Vested Interest Warning: one of the ways I used was to try to get specific people interested in other areas of the forum on the basis that if they were reading and posting in other areas of the forum then they might well even read the SOG area more regularly. Not sure where you go with this one, but certainly worth discussing on TS.
As for raiding: my suggestion would be to announce a date for Karazhan either use the availabity site or ideally the forums using a public vote. Then turn your attentions to specific groups to get people through the attunement process. It will need to be YOU who organise these groups as people on their own are lethargical and dumb - they need to be herded and pushed to do the things they say they want to do, they rarely organise it for themselves.
Re healers: don;t get too hung up on priests as the key healers. Most of our Karazhan groups have a single priest (provides a shackles and healing) and the rest of the healing is done by pallies, druids and/or shaman.
TL.
What perhaps even worries me more than the seemingly lack of interest from the members, is the lack of involvement from the officers. This thread has now been viewed 15 times, which makes it quite probable that all who have access has read it (Lucian is in Rome this week, so he is the only one I know for sure hasn't seen it). I would like to believe that this is a topic which is of great significance for the guild, and thus it should be something which all ought to have some kind of opinion about. Or is it just I who take this too serious? I would really like some kind of input, any kind of input, on this, as I feel a bit "lost" here :please:
The way I see it, we have several options on how to move on from this:
- We can admit that we were a bit too optimistic when we set the date for when we were to start raiding, and just postpone it some weeks and hope for more people getting attuned.
- We can really pull ourselves together and organize some attunement runs to get enough people attuned for at least one Karazhan group. If this is to happen, somebody must take responsibility and intitiative and be the driving force behind this. I would love to take on that kind of challenge myself, but as school hinders me from committing to any kind of regular raiding, I simply can not.
- We can ask the members if there are somebody that would like to take the responsibility to organize raiding (and attunement runs that are required pre-raiding etc). We have already asked Drazila to be RL (has there been done anything more about this yet?), but this is definitely not a one-man job (and I don't even know if he want to do more than just the RL part).
The only disadvantage I see with this, is that we (only) get people we don't like/trust/believe is capable/etc. volunteering, so perhaps it is better to think who
we would like for the job, and than ask those specific persons (but who to ask?).
- We can say that we won't be doing any organized raiding, but when enough people are attuned, random tries for Karazhan can be made (either with initiative from us or the members) - which might in time lead on to organized raiding.
- We can simply say that SOG ain't gonna be a raiding guild at all (at least not in any near future). We are happy with the way the game works now, and we encourage the members to enjoy the aspects of the game that can be done in smaller groups, such as PvP, heroic instances and quests etc.
The last point is an option which I myself can live very fine with - I have four whole zones left to do quests in, and I have barely been to half of the normal instances, so it would suit my personal play style very good. I don't think there is any wrong in as a guild to admit that this is the way we would like to go forward, but I do indeed see that many want more out of the game, so in the long run this is probably not a viable solution.
However, this option doesn't mean that we must say that we will never ever raid at all. It is also possible to say that we will postpone any plans for raiding for an undetermined period of time and just see how things move forward. We might loose some (or many) members if such an option is chosen, or we might get lucky and some members that really want to raid take initiative and pull something together - but the first of the two are probably the most likely one...
Now this post ended up quite long, I had a lot on my mind, and I just had to put them down in writing before I forgot any of it (have probably done so anyway). I'm also not in any way determined on my thoughts around the topic, these are all just thought about different ways to go. I assume this will be a hot topic on the next TS meeting, but that shouldn't stop anyone from posting here (as it is hard to tell how long it will take us to agree on a date etc.) - so please share your thoughts, as I tend to end up with a narrow view on things when I only discuss with myself all the time :flirty:
Also, as a last note: whatever we decide to do, some sort of message needs to go out to the members. They need to, and deserve to, know what is going on - even if it only is that we need some more time. We can also, in a general way, ask for the members views on things.
what to say. i agree. been waiting for a TS meeting for ages. but ppl are bussy. and we just had easter too. not seen to many online at the same time. and i've even done a few SV runs tough i'm done there... just to help ppl get the rep.
edit: and tnx bob. now we got some points to bring forth in a TS meet
6 or more of those read was me trying to load the page up from work..
had simply no time in the last week + 3days (my uncle is back in the uk now, after a flight delay)
ille try to think about something but atm my mind simply cant think, too bloody sick and have to show up at work (no replacement!), ime already sleepy..
Quote from: spiritus;184657now we got some points to bring forth in a TS meet
Ah, c'mon mate - don't just end the discussion with "let's take it at the TS meet" :sad:
At least throw some **** at me and say I talk rubbish (and preferably why :narnar:), so we can get a good and constructive debate going :)
@Gorion: get well mate, take care of yourself - hope you get better soon!
Post read, havnt gotten the time right now, but will get back to it asap.
@bob: ****ing rubbish! :narnar:
Quote from: Othbarty;184875@bob: ****ing rubbis! :narnar:
Love you too tart :rumpy:
As we said in the last announcement, our plans were to start raiding next week. Now next week is only
two days away, and I think everybody here see that it is not going to happen with only 6 persons (not counting the Counselors) attuned to Karazhan.
Just to give ourselves a bit more time, I suggest the following announcement to the members:
Quote from: Raiding - extra time neededAs were said in [post=180953]an earlier announcement[/post], we hoped to be able to start raiding in the coming week. As people can see from the [post=178965]Where are you attuned[/post] thread, it is infeasible to start raiding with this few members attuned to Karazhan.
We have not yet had a chance to discuss thoroughly how we will deal with this, but it will be debated on the much longed for TS meeting, which unfortunately has been postponed more than we hoped for due to Easter and various other stuff.
All we can do now, is to encourage everybody (especially those that said 'Yes' in the [post=181080]Do you want to raid?[/post] poll) to work on their attunement quests for Karazhan. More information will follow as soon as possible.
Best regards
The Officers
If nobody has any feedback to this in any way, I'll post this in the announcement section tomorrow evening after sometime after 19:00.
Imo it would be a big mistake saying that SOG arn't going to raid. To much ppl are waiting for the endgame instances to be raided (including me). I would love to arrange something, but unforunatly, this isnt the time of the year where i have very much spare time. The fact that my bachelor project is due soon doesnt help either.
As for the numbers attuned, thats fixable. Just take a day or two in with the instances, and it should be ok. Most are already in for the seccond/third key, and thats a arca run and a BM run. The BM run is relativly easy if you get a good healer and a good tank. Only problem is that there is already too many ppl that are sick of that instance. It doesnt take to long either, so we should be able to get two or perhaps three runs in one night.
Arca i dont know. Besides from needing a flying mount to get to it, i have only been there once befor, so i dont really know either tacs or how much time it takes to complete it, but one run (maybe two) should be doable one night. And ofc, if we can get two or even three groups going, it would be a blast! According to the thread there is 9 (or rather 8, since teni is listed with both his chars) that need these runs. And i would gladly help if im able. If we can get some tadlers (ex-sogers) from gen to help us, we could easily get two groups running.
The SV key is easily done, as it doesnt need any boss kills, so it should be doable in one night for those who need it.
Im poundering in getting organising some BM/SV runs to help, but i cant do the arc just yet. For that, i need one or perhaps two more runs, to get the feel for the mobs in there. (Or i can just read, but thats much more booring than going into the instance :P)
Dont know how much of this that is relevant, but its a couple of words from me.
Edit:
Quote from: Bob;184656Or is it just I who take this too serious?
Yes :P
Grab the people who need to get attuned and organise the instance runs. TS meetings whilst helpful on the planning stage mean jack to members. Members are people and people are nice. But individually members are no-brain half-wits who need someone to take hold of their nose and pull them in the right direction. Make it you sole purpose to grab a group and get anyone through the quests - even if it is only one person who benefits and then when you have 10 attuned people go to Karazhan. The moment you open the front door of Karazhan interest will immediately become more automatic from embers. You're the leaders, you need to take the first step and you're going to need to pull those first few members through the door with you until the raid builds its own momentum.
TL.
Rgr, ill orginice a run anywhere of those instances when im online to get ppl attuned.
I am free on Tues/Fri & Sat nights and if online (or booked in advance) I will happily donate either my mage or shadow priest to help make up the numbers to get groups through - I just want ot see you guys raiding ASAP as it will be sooooo good for guild morale to see some epix posted in gchat!
TL.
I'm back! :D I've scanned through the stuff which ahs come up, and I'll mull it over and post later I think.
Basically, what it boils down to, is officers attempting to organise regular runs to Karazhan important instances for members to take advantage of. I for one am happy to do that, as and when I can (although I am a CRAP leader)...
Secondly, I personally feel that the deadline was not unrealistic, but that we maybe over estimated the amount of work people were prepared to do. I met the deadline quite easily, without needing to play constantly for days on end, and I would have thought others wanted to as well.
My suggestion is this: set a deadline for three weeks, and a raid signup thread on the forums. Go for that (we will get 7/8 players probably), and then gets additions as required. I think that is the best way to work it.
And I'll tell you something: once people start seeing purples posted in gchat or linked in whispers, they'll get interested in starting raiding again. The proverbial carrot will swing back into action.
Quote from: Othbarty;185052Imo it would be a big mistake saying that SOG arn't going to raid.
Yes, don't think it's the preferred option either, but as I won't be raiding myself, I find it hard to guarantee for that not to happen. Good to see though that you and Lucian will try to pull some more folks through the attunement :thumbsup2:
I have a technical essay due on Friday which I haven't really started at yet, so it won't be much playing on me this week. But when the next weekend comes around, I'll probably be up for some
Steamvault, Arcatraz and Black Morass :)Quote from: Othbarty;185052Arca i dont know. Besides from needing a flying mount to get to it, i have only been there once befor, so i dont really know either tacs or how much time it takes to complete it
Even though it doesn't help for the speed of the run, I'd say that not knowing an instance can make it 10 times fore fun that a "farm" run. A couple of weekends ago, Nefertem, Jobok, Plight, Deloris and myself went to Botanica -
all of us for the very first time. Even though we had a couple of wipes on the way (and didn't manage to take down the last boss due to quite much ruined equipment), it was
the most fun run I have
ever had since the release of TBC :D
The feeling of "discovering and conquering" new areas is just great! But than again, it depends on a functional group - which shouldn't be a problem as long as it's a guild group at least :)
For the announcement draft that I mentioned in a [post=185049]previous post[/post], as nobody has commented on it, I assume it looks good, so I'll post that in the announcement section now. Hopefully we will be able to come with another announcement (perhaps something similar to what Lucian mentioned - 3 more weeks e.g.) ASAP, but this will at least let the members know that we haven't forgotten all about it.
And also, how about trying to get that TS meeting done sometime soon now? This week, I should be available Wednesday and Thursday (and Monday and Tuesday before 21:00), and Saturday and Sunday is probably also doable :)
Anyone else?
//www.ampwow.com is a decent source of tactics for all the 5 man instances and in fact for Karazhan too. Worth a read and a bookmark.
TL.
If you want to start useing the raid time, then call for it to start and start out by helping one another get the attunements done, if you go specificly for those you should be able to get ppl done w/ at least karazhan in a week or so.
Also, whisper me ig if you need help w/ tacts, more then willing to talk you trough some stuff.
just had a chat resulting in teni bieng a raiding officer, ie he accepted
Excellent, that's very good news!
nice work G :D
and sry for not being to mutch online latley. had some stuff on my mind, and not been feeling to happy about playing.. mosly been social and stuff.. i just got a mail. I'm drafted. As it looks for now, is that i'm going to the airforce about 23 of july. and gonna be gone for about 12months...