Id just like to say something about some of the -=[dMw]=-ers on the tcs,
I got moaned at and questioned for changing teams on aztec and yes i joined the winning team but not cos of that, i joined it cos the 2 highest scorers from that team swapped to mine, so i changed to their old team.
Iv noticed ppl doing that and some admins too, if what ever team is losing cos the other team has better players then fine keep it that way, if players/admins complain about ppl swapping teams then maybe some of the players/admin should set an example.
If admins dont want ppl changing all the time then put it in the rules "no team changes during match reguardless the score".
All in All team changing during a match (map) should be stopped.
:angry::angry::angry::angry::angry:
Without having being present and seeing what actually happened I would agree with you (although not on the fact that team swapping should be stopped mid map). There are two ways to try and even teams; moving players from one team to the other to unbalance numbers or swapping high scoring team members with low scoring team members.
At face value it sounds like what you did was correct but as I said I wasn't there and don't know the full story.
Can the admin involved please discuss with FS and then report back to all and sundry as to the outcome?
thank you :)
Wasn't there also but have you been asked to swap?
If not; Don't swap unless an admin asks. Otherwise it might look like WTJ.
Hope you get this sorted.
Freestyler.. you joined the winning team, eventho the winning team was leading by 4 or 5 i think it was and the winning team had still two more players before you swapped, that is why you were asked, what you did it..
I swapped cos the two best players from that team joined mine, so i swapped,
I find it a bit unfair that admins can change teams whenever they like and when players like me change we get told not to. Im pretty sure if i was an admin i would not have heard anyone say anything about that change.
Im not new to this game i have been playing on and off since it first came out, and was there for the rise of -=[dMw]=-
I just dont want ppl to think im new to this and dont know what im doing.
Im gonna leave it at that, dont take it the wrong way pls
Quote from: ***Freestyler***;200473......I find it a bit unfair that admins can change teams whenever they like and when players like me change we get told not to.
If I may interject.....
The reason that you see admins swapping sides on the server is a simple one. When one team is obviously too strong, rather than forcing players to swap teams, the admins have a mandate to swap teams themselves to try and balance the sides where possible. This was a conscious decision to keep the game flow for dMw'ers and visitors as smooth as possible.
Where admins moving side is not going to make a big difference (i.e. my crap playing will not help t'other side should I swap :D), the admin will ask someone or some people to change teams. This may be individuals or it may be a general call for "First T to die go CT please" or similar.
Where the system falls down is for people to take it upon themselves to swap teams. If two high-scoring people have been swapped to your team then that is a decision/request by an admin. Sure it may skew the balance the other way but then so be it. The admins have to use their judgement. People randomly swapping sides makes the process a lot harder.
You can be assured that the amount of admin only talk on the server is immense and there is a constant flow of dialogue between the admins on the server how to balance the sides, whether people are breaking rules or going out of bounds etc. You're not party to that and I can see that from an external point of view it may look like an admin just swapped sides but more often than not it's the result of a fair amount of admin-only chat.
That is also why you'll often see admin go Spectator then rejoin - it's the same reason. They have been requested or spotted an anomaly and have to investigate it without disrupting the game flow where possible.
That's the theory anyway :)
Does this make sense?
Cheers
PEN
Thank you for breifing me up on that,
Your right and i apologise to ALL admins who i might have ticked off with my complaining.
I thought i was right in what i did, but i didnt know the admins changed like how u explained it.
And thank you for taking the time to explain it it to me :):):)
:oops::oops::oops:
(http://www.sloganizer.net/en/style6,-star--star--star-freestyler-star--star--star-.png) (http://www.sloganizer.net/en/)
No problem.
You're well within your rights to query, that's what the Community is all about.
Cheers
PEN
it's not a case of "I don't see it happening..." Ice, that has been the way the server has been running for the last several months AFAIAA. Anyway.......this has gone beyond the Q&A and it's a point well worth discussing so I have setup a new thread here:
http://www.deadmen.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=20482
That way those people who may only monitor the CS thread can get involved.
PEN
Quote from: Penfold;200474Where the system falls down is for people to take it upon themselves to swap teams. If two high-scoring people have been swapped to your team then that is a decision/request by an admin. Sure it may skew the balance the other way but then so be it. The admins have to use their judgement. People randomly swapping sides makes the process a lot harder.
I am sorry but i don't see this happening....
The thing with Free started with me. I asked in normal chat why he joined the other team. As T's where losing bigtime and where at least 2 players down when those bighitters moved. (that where Kreg and myself at that time) I just asked why he changed and Kreg started after and used admin chat also for it. But for me it didn't matter if he swapped or not as 'T's started to play well even as loosing team and with less people. But it was about the idea of swapping...
And for Free i don't blame you anything you where just the one who swapped and i think if someone else did it he/she would get the same question from anyone on the server at that time even when it is an admin...
Well that was about yesterday...
But now about swapping players...
When i play i see 90% of the time no admin chat about even swapping players or the scores. I almost never see an Admin ask someone to swap teams. So that high traffic isn't there when i am around. And about people swapping out of free will makes it a bit hard that is just a crappy reason...
I am one that swaps most of the time. And 5% of my swaps are asked by an admin and most of the time that will be Sadako as i only see him asking about teams. But the other 95% of my swaps is non asked just my mind rolling around the teams list and scores and if needed i will swap without asking or whatever...
I dunno about you guys, but i am starting to really like the old days. I am thinking that we may not do a thing on the server without asking an admin if i read some topics around the forum. Soon we even have to ask an admin if we may shoot 1 bullet (that is how i see it atm when i have read all stuff on the forum)
Where is the free will from people to just look at the game and do what he/she thinks is best for the gameplay on our server??
it will be me again...
Cya maybe online.
:2cents: As I recall, whenever sides became unbalanced whoever was 'in charge' of the winning side would say to the team via VC, "First guy to die change sides". Job done! No arguments, no problem. Simply applying a dollop of common sense worked every time.
:flirty:
:getmecoat:
Sorry, didn't see this bit
Quote from: Ice Hawk;200540Where is the free will from people to just look at the game and do what he/she thinks is best for the gameplay on our server??
Quite right.
No Thread specified. If you followed a valid link, please notify the administrator :rolleyes:
weird:
How about
http://www.deadmen.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=20482
:D
PEN
It seems to me that trying to be "all things to all people" is just a slippery slope to mediocrity.
Freestyler's team change did strike me as a little odd, but even odder was the reaction of the admins. He did change back when I asked him - although I imagine that was nothing to do with admin rights.
Still, it does look a little strange when the guy dutifully reports newbies being OOB and no action is taken, and yet when he makes a decision on his own initiative, the admins are all over him like a rash.
Perhaps in dMw's striving to be child-friendly and uber-PC we may have fallen into the clutches of wishy-washy liberalism.
I'm with Dogmeat on this one there have been times when i have been oob's and have been told to get back.. (did so)
then i have also swapped teams without an admin asking me as the opposite team were losing at the time......
i think it depends on the admin at the time and what kind of day he has had :)
i know when at work if a l'user has messed me about i pretend to be stupid and reset his password (its normally there password (you would think after an hours lunch they could remember what it was :lmfao:)) and when i reset it i set it to be something that resembles line noise rather than a password..
there needs to be clear documentation for the section heads and admins on what is acceptable and what is not rather than depending on the individual.... it also needs to be aggreed on by the section heads and admins,because if the admins all agree on a set of rules and show an example then this will cascade down to the players
kind of like the 5 monkeys in a cage with a bannana on a ladder, when a monkey goes for the bannana the other 4 get squirted with water after a couple of days no monkey goes for the bannana after a week 1 monkey is replaced with a fresh monkey, when that monkey goes for the bannana the other 4 attack said monkey, this goes on until all monkeys are replaced but and the new monkeys learn the rules but have never been squirted with the water it just becomes the way it was :doh: (theres the long version of how this was carried out and if someone wants it ill try and dig it out)
Quote from: ghoule211;200608I'm with Dogmeat on this one there have been times when i have been oob's and have been told to get back.. (did so)
then i have also swapped teams without an admin asking me as the opposite team were losing at the time......
i think it depends on the admin at the time and what kind of day he has had :)
i know when at work if a l'user has messed me about i pretend to be stupid and reset his password (its normally there password (you would think after an hours lunch they could remember what it was :lmfao:)) and when i reset it i set it to be something that resembles line noise rather than a password..
there needs to be clear documentation for the section heads and admins on what is acceptable and what is not rather than depending on the individual.... it also needs to be aggreed on by the section heads and admins,because if the admins all agree on a set of rules and show an example then this will cascade down to the players
kind of like the 5 monkeys in a cage with a bannana on a ladder, when a monkey goes for the bannana the other 4 get squirted with water after a couple of days no monkey goes for the bannana after a week 1 monkey is replaced with a fresh monkey, when that monkey goes for the bannana the other 4 attack said monkey, this goes on until all monkeys are replaced but and the new monkeys learn the rules but have never been squirted with the water it just becomes the way it was :doh: (theres the long version of how this was carried out and if someone wants it ill try and dig it out)
I think I read something about an admin_school (http://www.deadmen.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=20362) but I must have been mistaken ... :flirty:
Also remember that admins sometimes also would like a bit of a game and without a hassle.
Quote from: Dr Sadako;200615I think I read something about an admin_school (http://www.deadmen.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=20362) but I must have been mistaken ... :flirty:
We know there is an issue with the different standards of the admins on Boomer and this was due to giving virtually everyone in Charlie section Admin ability (it was the correct thing to do at the time). Once admin school is ready all of the current public admins will lose their admin ability other than the few who will go through admin school (have a look at the link Sadako provided above).
There is no point in us starting admin school until the new server admin tools are in place, so that the training can take place using the new tools. The new tools will also help reduce the admin load by implementing things like tk/spawn protection, swear word filtering and a number of other enhancements for the public server. These things have been going on in the background for a few weeks and require a bit more time before they are ready to deploy.
I have an idea....
Don't swap teams unless asked. I thought the driver was that;
1. We want external people to come back and understand that we swap at map change.
2. If everyone figured they would swap to even up you get the yo-yo'ing between sides and it's a pita.
3. Whilst sometimes it seems skewed, 4/5-0 it often leads to a rallying come back.
I would say leave it generally to the admins, unless none are around or taking action, then suggest 'in-game' that you'll swap at the end of this round. Then swap. It stops multiple swaps and makes everyone happy.
Whilst the happy idea of a ton of formal process and procedures is great, this is a mature gaming commuinity, go witt the flow, chill out, respect the admins choices and guidelines at get on with the game.
what he said
Quote from: DogMeat;200601It seems to me that trying to be "all things to all people" is just a slippery slope to mediocrity.
Freestyler's team change did strike me as a little odd, but even odder was the reaction of the admins. He did change back when I asked him - although I imagine that was nothing to do with admin rights.
Still, it does look a little strange when the guy dutifully reports newbies being OOB and no action is taken, and yet when he makes a decision on his own initiative, the admins are all over him like a rash.
Perhaps in dMw's striving to be child-friendly and uber-PC we may have fallen into the clutches of wishy-washy liberalism.
I agree, and i have apologised for my actions
:worshippy::worshippy::worshippy:
:dmw::dmw::dmw::dmw::dmw:
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as a rule of thumb for me I would ask people to swap to a maximum of 2 extra players on a loosing team
If 2 more players are not enough well ... unlucky... and fair play to the winning team:narnar:
At the end of the day some maps are very bias and to win just 3 rounds can be classed as a result.. personally i like the challenge :devil: