This should have been a reply to a other topic on the forums....
Well first of all srry here i go again.
But i start to wonder what TCS is in the admins eyes atm....
Also it does me good that some other people also see the changes that where and are going on not really the good once are and that the gameplay on the dMw cs servers is almost gone for a normal player.
It is almost there that you have to ask an admin to shoot someone...
I have been a cs player for what 5 years now. I started to play with the dMw guys 4/4,5 years ago. Have been a member for 3 years now and a few weeks ago i dropped my tag, with the reason that i didn't want to be a member with the things where going on at the servers....
I know i play WoW and play it much. But i came on the servers just to relax and chat a little with the older members that i havn't seen in a while. (you know the normal chit chat...) But when i came online i was first taking a good look around as we had a few new members (that was a few months ago) Then it was for me something like "whooohooo it is going well with the cs part of dMw" But a few weeks later things are changing and people are starting to dislike playing on the server. I havn't seen any new players on the server. 1 or 2 new once are playing sometimes but the most just play once on the server and then never show there face again.
Here a bit what happend on the server in my last days as a member:
As most people know i am most of the time one of the last people alive on my team and most of the time somewhere at the top of the list... That gives you problems. But it can also be fun sometimes....
But one of the things is that the new people have a nice way of following you during the round. As for a nice example happend to me a few days ago. One of the newer players on the dMw server was almost new to CS. So he has to learn the game etc. What he did was following me and watching me about how i pld the game, i don't mind at all. I also gave him some advise over the voicecomm about how he should be standing, hiding and aiming etc. So he learned some new things and with some practise he could use it. A day or two later the thing between me and admins happend and i dropped my tag. But the same guy came back online and asked me for help again, at that point i almost said to him that he shouldn't ask me but someone else as "they" don't like my gameplay so you learn the wrong things... But i helped him again to give him some pointers. You start to wonder why does that guy come to me, well simple. I am willing to help the new people to show them around how your so called "TCS" is working and to make them feel happy and to get them back to the server, while the people that really should do it. Just stay with their warnings etc. and scare the new people away..
That happend to me: The next day as a non dMw member i pld on the server under my other gaming name. And the situation was 4 against 6.
The team of 4 where i also was in where the attacking team. And i followed the server rules as i always have done. But 2 admins where very soon giving me warnings and shouting at me in there vc's as they wanted to wait in the middle of a hallway (just to make up their minds for where to go) where they where sitting ducks for the CT's, i just pld the game and yes i ignored the admins as i did nothing wrong. That went on for 2/3 rounds and then i said over vc that i didn't need the warnings and that i play by the rules, and yes i was a bit ****ed and they could hear that. Then also i changed my name to something they knew me from, then it was a quickly sorry we didn't knew it was you...
Then it was for me well if the admins are acting like that to every new guy on the server no wonder no one sticks around for some more games...
Afterwards i got an pm from one of the 2 admins. With an sorry and a question why i didn't said who i was when i joined. I gave my story and a srry for my action over the vc and he gave his story. We both did a good thing with the pm and could say we learned something from it.
But same thing happend again but then with other admins... Even when i pld with a name well known to most members.
What has changed: The admins have changed. The only thing the players get are warnings. Your screen is soon to be filled with warnings.... And then the kick or even ban command.
I know this is a long story and to most of you crap and i know some of you who really should read it and think by them selves what is my story in this, won't even read it...
I know one thing that really should happen to the main admins and that is that they have to let go and let the game be pld like it should like the TCS in dMw once was and not to warn and kick for something minor....
But he just ignore me as some of the admins already do.....
But as you noticed i am not the only one who thinks or knows that things are not going well...
We are doing a lot of work to get more consistent admining. The Admin Standards have been updated, We have removed admin access from everyone but the CS admins and a few Charlies. These Admins will be going through training so that we all work from the same set of guidelines.
We will still be promoting teamplay over solo frag monkeys though.
I know there has been allot of admining going around lately, and some better than others. That said, if one of the admins does something that you disagree with, PM or IM him... I know im a human, human makes mistakes and missinterprets (whoa...) situations at random, and im more than glad to explane my point of view and get input from others private in a IM/PM.
A flamewar on the server/forum serves noone, caus ppl tend to not read the posts posted in threads like that, and the messages on the screen, well, some I see, and some i dont... Thats just the way it is when im focused on my gameplay :P
Bit messy, but i think i got my "tell the admins stuff they do wrong in a nice way"-point out in the air :P
I might be wrong, I've only been here a couple of years, but I reckon what is going on is the inevitable change from a blokes club to a global community encompassing a wide variety of games and ppl. With this comes a much greater variety of players; age, background, style, attitude etc. and being an admin, who has to pull all the strings together, is even harder. The admin also has to tread more lightly, now.
Go a couple of years back CS admins could get away with a lot more and the tone and culture was a lot more laid back. Whether one like it or not, dMw is trying to become a gaming community instead of a blokes club.
The more we challenge the stronger we become.
QuoteI know one thing that really should happen to the main admins and that is that they have to let go and let the game be pld like it should like the TCS in dMw once was and not to warn and kick for something minor....
But he just ignore me as some of the admins already do.....
How would you know what TCS is Ice? You've never played it!
I do agree with you that there has been some bad admining recently and we are very much aware of it. That is why Whitey and the guys are putting in so much effort preparing an admin school so that our admins are properly trained.
In response to your earlier post when you threw your toys out of the cot initially and handed in your wings:
You were not being specced by me. I was speccing a potential Bravo member. I think you have just demonstrated that you are fully aware you do not play TCS as your paranoia over being specced cannot be explained by any other means. TCS is about team and objective - nothing else!
Quote from: BlueBall;204237How would you know what TCS is Ice? You've never played it!
I do agree with you that there has been some bad admining recently and we are very much aware of it. That is why Whitey and the guys are putting in so much effort preparing an admin school so that our admins are properly trained.
In response to your earlier post when you threw your toys out of the cot initially and handed in your wings:
You were not being specced by me. I was speccing a potential Bravo member. I think you have just demonstrated that you are fully aware you do not play TCS as your paranoia over being specced cannot be explained by any other means.
TCS is about team and objective - nothing else!
It wasn't you, and it doesn't matter. and if you would like it is even confirmed at that time by a other admin.
And if you would take it like that then no one in dMw knows TCS.
I use tactics all the time even some ways some of you don't understand or really hate as it works against them.
CS is CS for me if i may not rush all the time k. If i have to defend a bombsite so be it. But you call that TCS but the way i play seems not...
Then why are you guys dead so early and often?? seems you are rushing...
You may call me paranoid but you don't even know what happend but it seems my so called paranoia works better then your tactics...
But it is fine with me.... Just play the game you like it...
After reading this I'm very curious to find out the purpose of the thread, I can't see anything good coming from it.
Definition of a good outcome:
"Ice Hawk: I'm sorry I over reacted, I took things the wrong way"
"Whitey: That's ok, things did get a bit heated...lets be mates, I rented that dvd you like"
"BlueBall: I'll bring the popcorn"
etc etc.
I can't see this doing much else than go back and forth a few more times and fade away*.
I welcome being proven wrong on this matter.
(No disrespect is ment to people mentioned and was just a purely hypothetical example of a good outcome)
*T-Bag is not a fortune teller, any money wagered on the prediction here is soely at your own risk, and should only be of an amount you can afford to loose.
Quote from: Ice Hawk;204241Then why are you guys dead so early and often?? seems you are rushing...
Don't really want to get involved in this, but for this comment, the thing is the objective of our gameplay isn't trying to win, of course that's good! but the main focus is teamplay, so if everyone else is rushing, well its a team tactic so it's done whether it works or not.
Quote from: Lee;204253Don't really want to get involved in this, but for this comment, the thing is the objective of our gameplay isn't trying to win, of course that's good! but the main focus is teamplay, so if everyone else is rushing, well its a team tactic so it's done whether it works or not.
Aye, and generally whatever the carriers says and needs for him to reach his goal. If he calls for me to rush with him as cannon fodder for him to reach the bomb site, then that is how it is played. If I disagree I can call something else when I have the bomb, but until then the carrier calls the shots for the team.
Quote from: delanvital;204257Aye, and generally whatever the carriers says and needs for him to reach his goal. If he calls for me to rush with him as cannon fodder for him to reach the bomb site, then that is how it is played. If I disagree I can call something else when I have the bomb, but until then the carrier calls the shots for the team.
Exactly.
Bomber calls it. It's like Benny once said; I've got the bomb, run in circles...
Ice, you've once typed; The first round I don't buy a gun. I usually pick one up. Only by typing this you allready gave away that you don't play TCS.
Trying to pick people off or giving being a tactical decoy is another thing but you intend to stick every time in the back, sometimes not even trying to help out the bomber or what so ever. To me this is just fraghunting and trying to get the highest score and such. You rather send 5 people up ahead, then follow yourself and pick off the last few people there. That's your gamingstyle but it's definatly not TCS.
For the rest, I had an argument lately also with adminning but complaining in an open thread is not the way to go.
DuV off...
Ice,
I'm just not sure what you're trying to achieve with this post.
Q. You complain about standards of adminning A. Prior to this post, the admins
have already agreed that there was a lack of consistency in adminning which has lead to a complete overhaul of admin systems and the introduction of the admin school to ensure consistency (i.e. it is being addressed - what more can we do???)
Q. You complain that we have no new people on the servers. A. We've had many new and successful members over the last several months - most of whom play regularly and are happy to be a part of dMw. If anything the servers are far more busy now that they were a year + ago.
THAT cannot be disputed.
Q. You complain that your way of playing is criticised
A. You are an accomplished CS player and no one is disputing that.
However as you yourself have said, your style of play is not the same as the dMw style of play. They are two completely different methods. What exactly would you like the admins to do? We've been playing this way for the last five years more-or-less have we not
For whatever reason, you seem to think that there is a personal crusade against you....Not true.
Bandying comments around such as.......
QuoteBut he just ignore me as some of the admins already do.....
Quotebut it seems my so called paranoia works better then your tactics...
and my personal favourites:
QuoteAs most people know i am most of the time one of the last people alive on my team and most of the time somewhere at the top of the list... That gives you problems.
QuoteI use tactics all the time even some ways some of you don't understand or really hate as it works against them.
You are so very wide of the mark and your comments make you sound like an arrogant and petulant child. You make it sound like we're scared of your skills and are trying to curtail you which is as laughable as is it offensive... Grow up FFS. I see nothing in your post which is new or constructive since your last diatribe.
again I ask, what are you trying to achieve? because I have to say I really don't know. Can you please explain it to me?
You're a long-standing member of this community but you've not said
ONE THING which is constructive or suggestive. Wouldn't it be better to say:
Q. I think this is wrong because........ and this is how I think that maybe we could improve it. What do you think?
We've acknowledged the faults within the adminning, we're trying our best to sort them out. It's not as though you're being stonewalled. This Community exists on the thoughts and comments of its members...... people who have constructively contributed and argued for / against things. It's all part of the 'self actualisation' of the community (as Sithvid put it in a rare moment of clarity :narnar: )
I've known you for several years and respect your skill at this game. However for whatever reason you seem to be going totally over the top with all this and I don't see the point.... finally, again I ask, what are you trying to achieve? What are you looking for?
PEN
I don't need anything, i have my gameplay so has every his/her own gameplay.
My post was there as off an reply to a other post on some things that have happend on the server.
You can say i wanted to old dMw play style back on the server when even the admins where playing and not how it has been the last few weeks/months.
For me it is short and over, i play on the server just to relax from a hard day of work or just to get out of WoW a bit.
Things changed on the server, and i gave my thoughts on things a few times in the past. And when a few admins started to do a warning war against me it was enough for me. That has happend and in some way i even like it.
As when i join now i am left alone, (as most of the new members don't know me) so that i can play my own way easy and with some rest. So for me it is k.
If you can understand that.
I can and would say more but as my English isn't that good i won't even try....
Just play on.
Let's all just admit my p3nis is the biggest.
Rushing can get tedious, but you go with the 'plan'. What's more annoying is when you call a plan and people wander off and you get shot in the ass because you are out numbered and out gunned.
It happens on the public, but that's our recruiting ground, and people do adapt and stay, so we must be doing something right.
Personally, the only time I don't 'toe the line' is on a Friday night when I'm trying to ruin Squonk or Smites game by standing behind them. That or taking the proverbial out of some of the more old school people. If I have offended anyone.....er....sorry, I'll probably do it again this week.
The positive to take from this thread is that we are all passionate about 'our' TCS. If there are people looking at this thinking it sounds fragmented, join on a Friday night and you'll get a good idea of what we're about.
I'll finish by saying, taking one in the face for the team is fine, taking one in the face because your team all stepped backward when you yelled 'GO' is neither entertaining or teamwork. Unless I called it.
I thank you. Move along, it's all in the game, for the game is the game for gaming gamers. (in the words of the true founder of dMw - Hunter - come back)
If anyone needs confirmation of my first statement, I'm in room 34 at the LAN. Please book ahead, there'll be high demand.
I do agree you are a good shot and you know how to play css ice BUT I can not possibly try to explain how often i got annoyed over the fact that you would not get involved in to the action untill either most of your team had damaged the other team loads or had died itself. So yes you might be good at css, but TCS means putting the Team above yourself. I know I tend to wander off but I try to change, and when an admin tells me i should stick to the team I do.
About the admin problems, I haven't really noticed a lot of problems myself but I can see how an ever growing community becomes harder and harder to monitor thus allowing more room for errors to be made by individuals.
This Community exists on the thoughts and comments of its members...... people who have constructively contributed and argued for / against things. It's all part of the 'self actualisation' of the community (as Sithvid put it in a rare moment of clarity )
Thanks for the acknowledgment
Maslows Hierachy of needs attached as reminder.
http://www.deepermind.com/20maslow.htm
or if you want another view.
When we move down the pyramid it is hard to accept,(shock denial acceptance) but we should aspire to go back to the top.
http://multispective.wordpress.com/2007/04/03/beyond-maslows-pyramid-of-individual-needs/
Plus underneath another interesting theory on evolution of individual in conjunction with a community.
Benny if i could give you a badge i would. :D Some good points raised here.
Quote from: Ice Hawk;204033That happened to me: The next day as a non dMw member i pld on the server under my other gaming name. And the situation was 4 against 6.
The team of 4 where i also was in where the attacking team. And i followed the server rules as i always have done. But 2 admins where very soon giving me warnings and shouting at me in there vc's as they wanted to wait in the middle of a hallway (just to make up their minds for where to go) where they where sitting ducks for the CT's, i just pld the game and yes i ignored the admins as i did nothing wrong. That went on for 2/3 rounds and then i said over vc that i didn't need the warnings and that i play by the rules, and yes i was a bit ****ed and they could hear that. Then also i changed my name to something they knew me from, then it was a quickly sorry we didn't knew it was you...
Then it was for me well if the admins are acting like that to every new guy on the server no wonder no one sticks around for some more games...
Afterwards i got an pm from one of the 2 admins. With an sorry and a question why i didn't said who i was when i joined. I gave my story and a srry for my action over the vc and he gave his story. We both did a good thing with the pm and could say we learned something from it.
Hummm, yeah... I remember that... quite well too...:g:
Yes there was 4 of us on T side and we was planning a tactical move which included all 4 members of the team we were participating in, this was pretty much all done over VC, previously (before you joined) we had planned for 2 members (who volunteered) to make a slow advance into bomb-site A to cause a decoy, and the other 2 members including the bomber went to B after a period of time. We was successful.
As I recall the bomber suggested we should use the same tactic again but with more smoke to suggest to the enemy that the whole team was going to one location...again we was discussing this over VC, as we was discussing this (which you heard our plans btw), you just ran straight to bomb-site B with scout, we was trying to get you involved and was asking to come back, unfortunately this did compromise our strategy, we would of course liked you to participate (member or no member) in the team play, which may of included you going to one of the bomb-sites solo.... but you were absolutely silent (not even a hello I might add :sad:) till the very end in which you sounded very disgruntled which i wont repeat here.
This is when we realized who you were. No shouting was involved, we was not sitting ducks (Just outside T'spawn) and IMHO the 'admin' was being pretty reasonable especially as this looks a frag hunting mission on your behalf.
On the next map, another Admin joined (I won't mention any names) and said "thanks for the back up" as everyone was doing their own thing
I admit you are a very good player, with very good aim, I respect you :) and I really don't want to see leave or anything, and I'm not trying to be nasty in anyway, but as you have brought this up.......I thought I would share the sequence of events.
:rockon:
Quote from: Snokio;204356Hummm, yeah... I remember that... quite well too...:g:
This is when we realized who you were. No shouting was involved, we was not sitting ducks (Just outside T'spawn) and IMHO the 'admin' was being pretty reasonable especially as this looks a frag hunting mission on your behalf.
just outside T spawn infront of the window where ct's can come without breaking rules and shoot you down. Srry but i won't stand there for 30 seconds and still chatting. While the bomber should have decided where to go in the 4/5 seconds of freeze time. So yes i just run past you guys. As you where playing a rush map, taking it slow on that map is a complete whipe.
And as you may know i almost never say a thing when i join the server. Or i have to be in a very funny spirit that i can't su. Most of the time it is an hello over the vc to my team, and let it be a surprise for the other team:narnar:
And i already dropped my tag so the leave is already in order. But you all know my gameplay as it seems.
So play on.
Pen. Good comments. I'm glad someone took the time to articulate what a child Ice Hawk is being..
Hey Ice.. Ya you.. Honestly mate I think your comments have not won you any friends. I would suggest that you try and "relax" elsewhere and let those who enjoy the challenge of TCS get on with it.
You're whole argument is arrogant and frankly boring. Don't bother responding as I'm not going to return to this thread as it is meaningless and infantile. I urge the rest of dMw not to give this any more attention.
Like most children if you ignore the bad behaviour and reward the desired behaviour you get the desired outcome.. Ice you won't understand this so perhaps if you google it you will find some insight.
well, on 99% of the public servers youll find people who enjoy playing the game like you. so theres a large choice...
i think a few admins did strange things recently, but as whitey already said,
it sure will be better after you guys visited the school :D
i still think the servers, the gameplay and the members here, are the best! :dmw:
PS: its easy; people who dont like it here, shouldnt stay here...