Dead Men Walking

Old Server Admin Section => Archived Topics => Admin - Server Issues => Topic started by: TeaLeaf on July 22, 2002, 04:02:50 PM

Title: Potential Specifcation & Cost for the Upgrade
Post by: TeaLeaf on July 22, 2002, 04:02:50 PM
I started this in a new thread to get some clarity on the spec & costs.  The 2U case sounds better to me as it gives slightly better options for PCI cards if you need them later on.  They also give the potential for better cooling, hopefully lengthening the chip life.  I have had a quick look round and come up with the following.

Costs:
Case £150 (safety margin added to Stryker's costs - can you give me the source or the cost of the one you want Stryker?)
CPU  Â£175 (Pentium IV 2.0Ghz)
Mobo £138 (MSI MS6534 inc onboard ethernet & sound, plus 8MB gfx card)
RAM £140 (1Gb SDRAM PC133)

Total £603

It's only a quick internet search that gave me the above, but I thought something like this might work.  I reckon we could cover this level of cost from known 'volunteer donors' and the remaining Clan members.

What I would like to be able to do is to put up a PLEDGE topic in the forums for people to pledge their money to the cause either publically or privately.  

Public Donations: This gives us a public list of donors and that always creates a little bit of healthy competition (and makes it more difficult for their pledges to disappear in a puff of smoke).  

Private Donations: Private donations are more difficult to admister with but tend to be better value so in past fund raising I have offered 2 options which would equate to:

(a) Add their donation amount to the forum list but as 'Anonymous 1', 'Anonymous 2'  so that everyone knows that someone has donated and how much, and the person donating knows which anonymous donation name they are.  
OR
(B) Add their name to the forum list but with an unspecified donation amount.  This way the person gets the public recognition without having to disclose how much they are donating.  You can only start posting these though when there are at least 2 unspecified amount donors (for obvious reasons).

The running total of how close we are then becomes part of the forum and this generates interest and in turn more money.  We can even pimp those who visit MH if we want, not just dMw members.  I reckon 10-14 days pimping should get us to the above figure.

Can I have some feedback from everyone on the tech spec, the initial costs & the PLEDGE page idea?  I am quite happy to drive the fund raising bit but I want someone else to sign off the 'yes that mobo/chip/card will fit in the box and work' list!!

Let's get this sorted in time for the ED Final...... 8)
Title: Potential Specifcation & Cost for the Upgrade
Post by: Gandalf on July 22, 2002, 05:02:51 PM
looking good. As I've said before, I'm happy to donate £100. Let me know where to send the cheque and who to make it payable too!
Title: Potential Specifcation & Cost for the Upgrade
Post by: TeaLeaf on July 22, 2002, 05:20:02 PM
Glad you think the prices look OK.  What about spec though & practicalities - Do they look ok too?

Thanks for the confirmation of the donation - I already have you on my list  :lol:  Don't worry though, I'm sure you won't be the only one donating......

Let's wait to hear from the others and I'll organise the buy when we've agreed the shopping list.

TL.
Title: Potential Specifcation & Cost for the Upgrade
Post by: DogMeat on July 22, 2002, 07:04:27 PM
I'd prefer to have the graphics & NIC on the mobo - you don't need sound on a server.  In the server room, no-one can hear you scream...
Title: Potential Specifcation & Cost for the Upgrade
Post by: OldBloke on July 22, 2002, 07:08:22 PM
If we plump for a P4, does that tie us to RDRAM or is it dependent on the mobo?
Title: Potential Specifcation & Cost for the Upgrade
Post by: Gandalf on July 22, 2002, 07:42:26 PM
QuoteIf we plump for a P4, does that tie us to RDRAM or is it dependent on the mobo?

sdram and p4 are fine. does depend on mobo though
Title: Potential Specifcation & Cost for the Upgrade
Post by: TeaLeaf on July 22, 2002, 09:20:06 PM
OK, so I’ve taken the mobo search a little further in light of Dogger’s comments.  I have changed the spec sheet to include a different mobo with onboard graphics, sound & LAN. So the shopping list now looks like this:

Costs:
Case £150 (safety margin added to Stryker's costs - can you give me the source or the cost of the one you want Stryker?)
CPU £175 (Pentium IV 2.0Ghz)
Mobo c.£138 (MSI MS6526GL-L inc onboard ethernet, sound & gfx)
RAM £140 (1Gb SDRAM PC133)

Review of it here: http://www.pcstats.com/articleview.cfm?art...eid=1172&page=6 (http://www.pcstats.com/articleview.cfm?articleid=1172&page=6)

Manufacturer site: http://www.msicomputer.com/product/detail_...del=MS-6526GL_L (http://www.msicomputer.com/product/detail_spec/product_detail.asp?model=MS-6526GL_L)

My biggest problem is that I can’t find anyone in the UK who sells it at the moment!  But it should be within price range â€" let me know if (a) this mobo is OK and (B) if you know where we can get one!

Someone will also need to tell me which RAM can be used in the mobo as the description gets a bit too technical for me.....but it's not RDRAM as far as I can see Oldie  :lol:

Feedback please....
Title: Potential Specifcation & Cost for the Upgrade
Post by: Gandalf on July 22, 2002, 11:33:57 PM
I'll make some calls tomorrow. The case will probably be cheaper if stryker gets it though. I'll see what prices I can come up with, or maybe an alternate spec.
Title: Potential Specifcation & Cost for the Upgrade
Post by: OldBloke on July 23, 2002, 07:56:25 AM
Question for both DM and Stryker.

Does it have to be a rack-mounted case? Couldn't we go with the box I've got available NOW and convert to rack-mount at a later date when space is pressing (assuming it isn't already)?

We could still use donations to upgrade the CPU and RDRAM.
Title: Potential Specifcation & Cost for the Upgrade
Post by: TeaLeaf on July 23, 2002, 08:07:00 AM
Silly question, but is it a microATX box or does a microATX mobo fit a normal ATX case anyway?  Sorry if that's a stupid question, but having never tried it before.....  8O
Title: Potential Specifcation & Cost for the Upgrade
Post by: TeaLeaf on July 23, 2002, 09:23:31 AM
OK, here are some other possible mobo's.  They all take SDRAM (some DDR SDRAM) not RDRAM, are all MicroATX form and either include or allow the option to include integrated graphics, LAN & sound.

ASUS P4B533-VM plus the optional LAN and sound
http://www.asus.com.tw/mb/socket478/p4b533...ecification.htm (http://www.asus.com.tw/mb/socket478/p4b533-vm/specification.htm)

ASUS P4BGL-VM plus the optional LAN & sound
http://www.asus.com.tw/mb/socket478/p4bgl-...ecification.htm (http://www.asus.com.tw/mb/socket478/p4bgl-vm/specification.htm)

ASUS P4S333-VM plus the optional LAN & sound
http://www.asus.com.tw/mb/socket478/p4s333...ecification.htm (http://www.asus.com.tw/mb/socket478/p4s333-vm/specification.htm)

GIGABYTE GA-8SMML+ (£76)
//www.dabs.co.uk

GIGABYTE GA-8SMML (£74)
//www.dabs.co.uk

SOLTEK http://www.soltek.de/English/home/01.htm (http://www.soltek.de/English/home/01.htm)
Soltek SL-85MIR-L
Soltek SL-85LIR-L
Soltek SL-85MIV-L

Epox EP-4GLM+
http://www.epox.nl/english/products/mother...ml/ep-4glm+.htm (http://www.epox.nl/english/products/motherboard/_html/ep-4glm+.htm)

AOpen MX4LS
http://www.aopen.nl/products/mb/mx4ls.htm (http://www.aopen.nl/products/mb/mx4ls.htm)

AOpen MX46LS
http://www.aopen.nl/products/mb/mx46ls.htm (http://www.aopen.nl/products/mb/mx46ls.htm)

AOpen MX4GR
http://www.aopen.nl/products/mb/mx4gr.htm (http://www.aopen.nl/products/mb/mx4gr.htm)

AOpen MX4G
http://www.aopen.nl/products/mb/mx4g.htm (http://www.aopen.nl/products/mb/mx4g.htm)

AOpen MX4LR
http://www.aopen.nl/products/mb/mx4lr.htm (http://www.aopen.nl/products/mb/mx4lr.htm)

I am not a techie, so can someone please pick one?

Thanks.

TL.
Title: Potential Specifcation & Cost for the Upgrade
Post by: Stryker on July 23, 2002, 09:25:16 AM
A micro ATX board will fit in all current cases.

Yes I guess we could use a standard case but I'd imagine we may need the space it takes by/around JAN/FEB 03... a case takes 3Us of vauluable rack space, a 1U case.... well think that says it all :-)

In short Yes.  We could use a standard case with a mATX m/b and change to a rackmount case later.  Maybe that processor is a bit beefy.  Do they do a 1.6 or a 1.8?  would it be much cheaper or not worth it?

I must say at this time I'm strapped.... IE wife just gets a birthday card this august that kinda strapped :-)
Title: Potential Specifcation & Cost for the Upgrade
Post by: TeaLeaf on July 23, 2002, 01:26:50 PM
OK, so we can edit the list down to esclude a 1/2U case for the timebeing if we really need to.  That would bring the budgeted cost down to

CPU £170 (Pentium IV 2.0Ghz)
Mobo c.£140 (to be decided)
RAM £140 (1Gb SDRAM PC133 or similar)

Total £450

Yes we can get lower processor speeds, but the saving is marginal.  For example

Pentium 4 2.0GHz S478 400MHz 512Kb - £170
Pentium 4 1.9GHz S478 400MHz 256Kb - £159
Pentium 4 1.8GHz S478 400MHz 512Kb - £152
Pentium 4 1.7GHz S478 400MHz 256Kb - £152
Pentium 4 1.6GHz S478 400MHz 256Kb - £124

To my mind the costs are close enough to say 2.0Ghz.  Anything more than that and it jumps in price a lot (e.g. 2.2Ghz is £235).  Also, not all P4 chip speeds fit all mobos.  The 2.0Ghz is a common speed and fits most of the current crop of mobos.

If we don't have to buy the case I am as sure as I can ever be that we will reach the target.  But I still need someone to select the mobo from the list I gave above.

TL.
Title: Potential Specifcation & Cost for the Upgrade
Post by: Stryker on July 23, 2002, 04:39:23 PM
Epox EP-4GLM+
http://www.epox.nl/english/products/mother...ml/ep-4glm+.htm (http://www.epox.nl/english/products/motherboard/_html/ep-4glm+.htm)

looks pretty good... if it turns out to be £150 then I guess I dont like it :-)
Title: Potential Specifcation & Cost for the Upgrade
Post by: DogMeat on July 23, 2002, 04:53:52 PM
However, see here for memory prices.  DDR 2100 is more expensive than PC133.
http://www.crucial.com/uk/store/listparts....LM%2B&submit=Go (http://www.crucial.com/uk/store/listparts.asp?Mfr%2BProductline=EPoX%2BEPoX&mfr=EPoX&cat=RAM&model=EP-4GLM%2B&submit=Go)
Title: Potential Specifcation & Cost for the Upgrade
Post by: TeaLeaf on July 23, 2002, 06:07:57 PM
Well I'll be.......  I just gave Epox a call and found out that their UK HO is only about 5 minutes away from me in Milton Keynes!  

Apparently the board you like Stryker is not normally available in the UK but they are going to see if they could get one and what the lead time and price would be.  I'll come back to you when I hear from them.

As for RAM, let's wait and see what they can do for us on the mobo price - it may or may not look attractive at that point!

Any second preference on the mobo as an alternative Stryker?

TL.
Title: Potential Specifcation & Cost for the Upgrade
Post by: TeaLeaf on July 23, 2002, 10:04:25 PM
OK, I had a reply from Epox via email within the hour - impressive!

They say that they stock another mobo called EP-4G4M+ which is identical to the EP-4GLM+ that I asked about except in one respect.  The EP-4G4M+ can accept an AGP card, the EP-4GLM+ cannot.

Dabs sell the EP-4G4M+ at £108.10 inc VAT.

Whaddya think?  Do we do this and suffer higher RAM costs or go with another mobo and cheaper RAM?  Your decision is awaited so that I can get on and buy it, then scrounge the money back from peeps.

Gandalf - did you have any thoughts or any success on price?

TL.
Title: Potential Specifcation & Cost for the Upgrade
Post by: TeaLeaf on July 23, 2002, 10:11:37 PM
Sorry, I forgot to add that the mobo suggested by Epox would make the shopping list look like this:

CPU £170 (Pentium IV 2.0Ghz)
Mobo £108 (Epox EP-4G4M+)
RAM £275 (1Gb DDR PC2700 from Crucial)

Total £553

It's £80 less (or so) if we have a different mobo with PC2100 RAM, but I think we need to close in on a decision now so that I can get me pimpin' rags on.

Come back........

TL.
Title: Potential Specifcation & Cost for the Upgrade
Post by: Gandalf on July 23, 2002, 10:20:08 PM
i'll see what i can do tomorrow. was maxed out today.  :?
Title: Potential Specifcation & Cost for the Upgrade
Post by: DogMeat on July 23, 2002, 10:24:46 PM
I'd like to suggest that the £80 saved on the memory difference go toward a UDMA100 HD.  MH sits comfortably on a 10GB drive right now, but a larger/faster drive offers the prospect of more than 1 lag-less server...
Title: Potential Specifcation & Cost for the Upgrade
Post by: TeaLeaf on July 24, 2002, 12:32:12 AM
Do you have one in mind DM?  If you think it will help, and we go for a different mobo with cheaper RAM, then let's add it to the list and see how much we can achieve.  Negotiate a deal with Stryker on the choice of mobo and we'll see what we can do.  We can but try....  8)

TL.
Title: Potential Specifcation & Cost for the Upgrade
Post by: DogMeat on July 24, 2002, 12:56:25 PM
How about:

WD HD IDE 40GB UDMA 100 7200RPM  (Reference #29759)
£59.00 ex. VAT  Â£69.33 inc VAT

http://www.ideal-computing.co.uk/acatalog/..._Drives_17.html (http://www.ideal-computing.co.uk/acatalog/Ideal_Online_Catalog_Hard_Drives_17.html)
Title: Potential Specifcation & Cost for the Upgrade
Post by: TeaLeaf on July 24, 2002, 02:59:54 PM
Stryker - I just need to know now whether or not I am going for the Epox mobo with the faster RAM, or an alternative with cheaper DDR RAM.

Cummon back good buddy........the I'll go a pimpin and a shoppin  8)
Title: Potential Specifcation & Cost for the Upgrade
Post by: Stryker on July 24, 2002, 07:23:00 PM
I guess we go for the epox motherboard... not sure on the ram.... if we had the faster ram the way I see it is we've had the best of the expensive components we can afford.  The other components are cheaper and can be upgraded later.  Also if we keep the current hard drive we dont have to start again with homer's setup....  bear in mind the upgrade will be onsite, I dont fancy spending 3 hours in a freezing boring server colocation facility.
Title: Final Purchase List
Post by: TeaLeaf on July 24, 2002, 07:42:05 PM
OK, so the wish list is finalised as:


CPU £170 (Pentium IV 2.0Ghz)
Mobo £108 (Epox EP-4G4M+)
RAM £275 (1Gb DDR PC2700 from Crucial)
WD HD IDE 40GB UDMA 100 7200RPM £69  (a bonus purchase if we get the full target).

Target: £622

I will assume that unless I hear to the contrary from someone before tomorrow morning, I have the go ahead to start pimping for the money - and we have already achieved one third of the target  8)

Thank you everyone for your input and prepare your self for some serious pimping........  :D

TL.
Title: Potential Specifcation & Cost for the Upgrade
Post by: Gandalf on July 24, 2002, 07:51:18 PM
can't you just duplicate one drive to the other. Most new drives come with disk dupe software anyway.
Title: Potential Specifcation & Cost for the Upgrade
Post by: TeaLeaf on July 24, 2002, 07:52:49 PM
You can borrow my copy of drive image if it helps at all, but I'm sure you have your own stuff an all..... 8)
Title: Potential Specifcation & Cost for the Upgrade
Post by: Gandalf on July 24, 2002, 07:56:20 PM
assuming it's happy with linux partitions
Title: Potential Specifcation & Cost for the Upgrade
Post by: TeaLeaf on July 24, 2002, 07:58:41 PM
:oops: errrr, my bad - I told you I'm not techincal - I should have known that DM wouldn't let Microsloath near the server  :oops:

Well, it was the thought that counted....

TL