Well a few of us had a talk about us all raiding.
At the moment we raid Kara and just started in Gruuls Lair.
But kara is comming to an end for most of us. At least for the mains.
People still go there and help out the others to get their loot but at some point that helping will stop as run after run the only thing that person gets is a repairbill and a few badges...
So the idea came up to think also on the new people. Is to raid 1 week Kara and the other week ZA and in the weekend just gruul.
This to get our people back into raiding with their main character.
Kara is on farm status now. We now also know how to kill netherspite so some of the mains have 1 maybe 2 things to get out of kara and then are done with the place. So keep kara to gear up the new people and the alts. And give it a go at ZA so the people has some new stuff to do.
I dunno if i said it correctly but this is an idea and there are a few more people in sog who think the same.
So what do the officers and the rest think?
as "rest" id say yahooo:yahoo:
Would love to take Marduk to ZA.
and as far as the "we need to gear people first", rubbish.
i have spoken to a few people, and most of our Raiding veterans if you may call it that, are tired of karazhan.
we have had it on farm a few times if you ask me, but every time the "elite" quit raiding out of boredom
So as far as the healing goed, Marduk and lunares are happy to go so far
and without wanting to sound cocky, i think wer both equiped to handle ZA so that leaves you with just 1 healer left, evoxer or philppa should be able to fill that spot just great
Quote from: Marduk;220647evoxer or philppa should be able to fill that spot just great
And Firenemesis :roflmao:
QuoteAnd Firenemesis
no
....
Yeah, what happened if Evo / Philppa ain't around at the time?
Quote from: Ice Hawk;220644Well a few of us had a talk about us all raiding.
Nice of u take charge there ice?
This is news to me as Raid leader
As Im aware the main Raid GRP has just progressed to get Kara on Farm and Last night was our very first full Clearance( early SOG raids not included),there is no need to Jump head 1st into other raids,as this takes time and organising.
Aim now is to get another grp into Kara and geared up for Gruul
As Duk Kindly put it ONLY the elite raiders can pretty much goto ZA and that would only be the 1st boss,after that its rock and we dont have the gear for it mostly!
I'm with u on badges and the repair bills tho,i would like one more piece of gear from kara and only Netherspite drops it :)
Now we have mastered the Netherspite fight we should do Kara in one evening soon,and that would be progress!
Aye, ONLY the elite raiders indeed, and i really dont see the problem with that.
but please do consider, by the time you started with karazhan gore, i was pretty much done with it already ( and im sure im not the only one there )
We just want something new,
and the "we want karazhan on farm first" is kinda an old excuse
we had it on farm b4, and then the raid group fell apart to start again with trouble on shade
If you want something to get your teeth into before reaching for ZA why not Gruul, Void Reaver & Lurker. You'll find them a lot less difficult than ZA - you only just managed to kill the bear boss (by the skin of your teeth) and he is the easiest by far of all the bosses in ZA, this should tell you a lot about gear requirements. Luna certainly is an exception (full Tier 5) and to some extent Marduk may be an exception too, but the bulk of the raid does not have that level of gear. I'd be happy to assist with guidance or even toon time as required. I do however think the idea is a decent one, but that we need to leave it witht he officers and raid leaders to sort out how to progress raiding within SOG. Ideas are good though, keep them coming.
TL.
Id say if TL is right, and ZA is really THAT hard ( no reason to doubt him)
then perhaps More Gruul, and a few bosses in ssc would be a decent alternative then
I just hope we can get a group for that together should our officers decide to go true with more raiding
Well
This is my Second char that i have ran thru and completed kara on,im on a different perspective now,but if i chose to do so ,i could go do SSC and The Eye and ZA on my Horde anytime,but i like the new challenge of tanking (not very well i admit) but thats my choice,as it it yours to be bored with Kara.
I dont get paid for been raid leader i enjoy it immensly,at the point i joined what were you guys doing?
we have progressed alot since,and the majority of the raiders think so too,its only a minority that are bored with Kara,but its a means to an end gear wise!
If no Kara,no gruul,no SSc no Tk and so on and so on......
Since i respecced Holy from Prot to Retri, because of Gruul upcoming and more raids, i've been needed more on My Shaman (which when it first hit 70 wasn't intended to be a raiding character...
Anyway i've found Kara boring and the only reason i'd go back there is to get Holy geared up, IF you guys ever want him for 25 mans you'd have to have him geared up and its coming to the point where i offer to help out as DPS in Kara when you need it and being turned away
So basicly gore, your saying your screwed, glad we have that clear then
and on a side note, whats your horde char got to do with it?
He didn' say you were screwed, I think he was saying that he appreciated that you were bored, but that as a raid you need a certian level fo gear to progress well. If SOG are quick and do Kara clearance runs & Gruul over the next few weeks most toons for a 25 person raid will have the gear needed to move onto trying either SSC Lurker or TK Void Reaver. Then it starts to get more interesting. I just think he was saying that it is difficult to move on to new things on your own and that the rest of the raid need to catch up.
ZA is more difficult imo than either Lurker or VR, with the exception of Bear boss who is the easiest boss there. I knwo they reckon that it is meant to take off where Prince left off in Karazhan, but it is not the same level it starts at a higher level and gets very much harder. Some of the best gear in game drops in ZA (T6 beating stuff in many cases) and this should tell you something about the gear requirement to get that sort of loot.
TL.
I didnt suggest i was screwed Marduk!
Dont know where u got that from?
i was merely suggesting that i had 2 choices to raid,and to progress with 2 chars but i dont have the time so i chose to pick my alliance char,over my horde!
Thats it!
Quote from: Goregrinder;220659Nice of u take charge there ice?
This is news to me as Raid leader
Nope i am not taking charge. I said to those people that i would start the post about the things said in my first post. If i didn't started it someone else would...
And it aint really new news... It is going on for some time already...
You can also see it in the raid setups for the kara raid days..
Quoteits only a minority that are bored with Kara
And the group gets bigger...
I posted what some people within SOG are/where thinking about the kara raids.
And it aint an attack to you Gore at all if you might think that.
apologies to goregrinder, misinterpetation on my side
was not my intention to duke it out via forums
ill leave this debate up to others till i get my head bolted up straight
For tuppenceworth: I would like to get started on SSC - the faster we move through it, the faster we all progress. 25 man raids should be expected on 2/3 raid evenings I think.
We understand that kara is boring for most.
yes we want to progress but please give it time we need a couple more members to make sure that we can put toghter consistant 25 man groups.
It personally dont see it being long till we more or less leave kara but just have a little patientce guys. we will try to get things moveing as quickly as possible.
AS Tl said my case is a bit special (due to gear) hence i might not have any right to speak here.
But atm basicly i only help in raids to help if needed. This means mostly repair bills only and some badges if your lucky.
As i heard it went pretty good with khara till some ppl needed a break, RL stuff etc. Then it started kinda over again with some good geared ppl and some less geared ppl (correct me if i a wrong btw).
Also as ice said the helping will stop or those toons get replaced by lesser euiped toons cause ppl have all their want or just bored of it.
I dont mind helping, but personally for me it would be nice to see some new stuff i havent seen much and that prolly would be ZA. TL is right about gear and difficulty, but unlike TL( or at least the impression i got from the posts here) i think ppl actually can do more then 1 boss if they get their tactics right.
Just my 2 cents,
Lunares
Quote from: lunares;220750TL is right about gear and difficulty, but unlike TL( or at least the impression i got from the posts here) i think ppl actually can do more then 1 boss if they get their tactics right.
Not saying they are impossible, but that they will be a damn sight harder without good gear. Example:
Bear boss - simple tank'n'spank fight
- people were going oom and you only just managed to keep the tanks going and only just scraped the fight. This implies a need for better EHP tanking gear to soakup the bear, more raw healing/mp5 form healers and a higher dps and base stats pool from ranged.
Imo to do the other bosses you really need to be able to walk in and kill the bear boss within the timer to get the bonus loot. By all means try other bosses in ZA (I am really not trying to make you despondent, just trying to help you be realistic about where you will get most loot gains from right now) but be realistic about what is immediately possible. ZA requires an increasingly high degree of teamwork and gear as you progress through the instance. Teamwork you can deliver, but you might find easier gear on Gruul, Lurker & Void Reaver.
If you went to Eagle boss
-the gauntlet can be sserious challenge witht he wrong or poorly geared group. Too low a dps and you'll be overun by eagles, too low EHP on the tanks will lead to healers going OOM before the end of the gauntet. The gauntlet is not impossible, but it is a gear check.
-you have already tried the Eagle boss about 2 months back and after talking to Sheepy at the time the SOG raid did not have enough HP to just ignore the eagles and just dps the boss. That is a straight forward gear problem and leads to healers having to heal the raid far too often and going oom.
If you went to Phoenix boss
-long fight with a high AOE requirement and lots of AOE damage on the raid requiring a big mana pool and sustained high dps whilst the tank takes some pretty high damage throughout.
If you went to Lynx boss
-very heavy mana fight and requires two decently geared tanks to cope with saber lash and the spawned add in phase 2. This fight is about sustained single target dps which requires good base stats and a for healers to have excellent mana pools & MP% as the raid takes periodic damage throughout the duration of the fight.
ZA is meant to start from Prince level and go upwards. Imo the upwards curve is pretty steep in ZA compared to say Gruul, VR or Lurker. That's all I was trying to say. By all means have more goes at ZA, I am sure you will progress, but you might find easier loot and raid upgrades elsewhere. Your gear may of course have improved beyond my appreciation of it with the recent run ogf good Kara clearances, which case you might well progress a bit more, but certainly in early trips to ZA you might spend a whole night on just 2 bosses.
Bottom Line:I'd be damn glad to see SOG raid any of the above and I really do hope you continue to see the progress and success that you have recently been achieving continue into Gruul, SSC, TK, ZA and beyond.
TL.
MY apologies to TL if my last post sounded a bit harsh, kinda tired then and normally i dont find the right words easyly.
I agree with you that ZA is quite a bit harder then khara, also agree that VR and solarian are prolly easyer to do.
But what i meant to say was that yes its hard but if ppl hear to often its hard they might not be as willing to try. I dont say anyone would do that but it could be a possibility.
Still even if it is 2 bosses a night, i know i am up for that, even if it means wiping a lot. The best way to learn a fight is to actually do it.
Lunares
Well I'm not raiding atm but I have seen similiar situatios before few times so I have to comment. There is always the gear/reguirement talk going on when some instance is almost in full farm. If someone remembers the old times before TBC, when SoG had 2 raid groups? The first one were superstars, they were rocking at the twin emperors and raid group 2 were strugling with bwl, so the group I were in was farming easily MC but then we kinda ran into the wall in BWL's first boss. The talk got on that people needed more gear and such, and we tried the boss many many times and after wiping we went back to MC. But one day when the tactics were right we got it down and then it took the snowball effect, and in the next few months were at Nefarian.
So my advice, don't fear new challenges! New bosses go down with good tactics and gear, it needs both. I have full confidience that you can do everything that you want when the time is right :) You might need to farm Kara a few times, but while doing it almost in one night, it leaves you time to go to train tactics on new places. And new bosses need wiping, some more than some others, but after downing the boss, it feels very good. Good example is that soon Gruul will fall before you!
- Lex