Sorry but a small "moan" incoming so look away if your not in the mood :byebye:
Good games tonight on cod4 server :). But one thing that I still find abit irritating about cod is the perk: Last Stand.
There is nothing more annoying then having a 1 vs 1 in say, Search and Destroy mode when your the last guys left on your team... You sneak up behind the other guy, shoot him in the back and win the round for your team and get the glory!
But no! they turn round and fire 1 weak, silenced peeshooter bullet into your kneecap and you lose the round :sad::crying:
If the perk martydom isin't allowed (for tking mainly I know) I also think Last Stand should go as it is equally frustrating.
I think i've missed or forgotten some key point to my argument but the jist of it is there! Any thoughts? anyone disagree? (armitage will i know, he always gets me with it the bugger!:P)
Make sure they're properly dead. Or pay the consequences :norty:
I disagree.
Having that perk is invaluable. Just cos it annoys you dont mean it shouldnt be on there.
Its a game, whats the point of playing it if we take out all the things in it?
Get a grip and stop bloody moaning.
We all aint as great and glorious as you, so these little things you hate... actually help us n00bs out.
It starts with "moan last stand moan" then "moan claymores moan" and then "moan HE nades moan" b4 u know it...we're play cod4 without any killing.
Tbh iv lost interest in playing on our servers cos people moan too much about these tiny little things.
I like most members but some just seem like boring farts.
Right im vented out
Peace
:withstupid:
I was merely asking for people opinions, to see if anyone felt the same as me about it.
sorry i spoke. i'll keep my opinions to myself from now on then i suppose.
such hostility, and you say its only a game... :blink:
I found this a little irritating too.
I find Last stand irritating but it's all part of the game. We've only removed one aspect - Martyrdom - which I can't see anyone disagreeing with as it tends to wipe out your own team.
Free, your response was totally unjustified. it's fine to disagree but your post is bang out of order . :eyebrow:
PEN
Quote from: Penfold;239058I find Last stand irritating but it's all part of the game. We've only removed one aspect - Martyrdom - which I can't see anyone disagreeing with as it tends to wipe out your own team.
Free, your response was totally unjustified. it's fine to disagree but your post is bang out of order . :eyebrow:
PEN
I have to stand up and be counted here. To my mind Freestyler's (without the silly asterisks ) response was robust. He didn't use any profanities, he said what he meant. This is still England and free speech is still allowed. A more PC reply would not have got over his point at all. This is not a church guild, this is a grown up forum.
For what it's worth, I like the last stand. Not many things as satisfying as killing someone who left you for dead. :norty: If you're used to 'boom! headshot!' kind of ownage then it would be extremely irritating not to have done the job properly.
Quote from: Doorman;239059m.
For what it's worth, I like the last stand. Not many things as satisfying as killing someone who left you for dead. :norty: If you're used to 'boom! headshot!' kind of ownage then it would be extremely irritating not to have done the job properly.
I think that the last stand perk is too powerful when combined with HC mode. As Butta said, you can shoot someone point blank from behind with a high power rifle and then they swivel around (like a breakdancer) on the ground and shoot one shot in you with a less powerful gun and you are dead. I find that unrealistic. Still, it is easy to keep shooting an extra second to finish them off.
Quote from: ***Freestyler***;239049I disagree.
Having that perk is invaluable. Just cos it annoys you dont mean it shouldnt be on there.
Its a game, whats the point of playing it if we take out all the things in it?
Get a grip and stop bloody moaning.
We all aint as great and glorious as you, so these little things you hate... actually help us n00bs out.
It starts with "moan last stand moan" then "moan claymores moan" and then "moan HE nades moan" b4 u know it...we're play cod4 without any killing.
Tbh iv lost interest in playing on our servers cos people moan too much about these tiny little things.
I like most members but some just seem like boring farts.
Right im vented out
Peace
You are free to disagree and if you don't want to play here it is up to you. No one is forcing you. Still, the CoD4 server is still in its cradle and we were asked by OldBloke to make comments and suggestions to the server settings to get it right. You are not helping the situation by calling people "moaners" or "boring farts".
Sure you can argue that it is part of the game and we should include everything even martyrdom. An extension of that train if thought could be to have no weapons restrictions at all in CS. Bring back the AWP and the autosniper.
Why not forget about the boundaries? It is not part of the game so why have them! Use airstrikes directly at round start against enemy spawn ...
When Racing run into the opponent from behind to ruin their position. Steal money from other guilds banks by posing as members alts.
However, that is not how we think or play in dMw.
When we play games it is about fairness, teamwork and fun but also about balance. Perks like martyrdom and last stand could take the fun out of it and we could lose players. This doesn't mean that we will take them out but it is our obligation as admins to hear out and discuss potential problems in our supported games. If we have the possibility to fix or modify to reduce those potential problems we do so, usually by rules.
I dont like last stand when I get killed by it. But I love it when I use it :narnar:
Just shoot them one extra time in the noggin, just to be sure :) You got the skillzzzz Butta ;)
To kill someone with a Last Stand Perk you just need to shoot them again right? Does it need to be a headshot or anything or just a single body hit?
PEN
Quote from: Dr Sadako;239063.....I find that unrealistic....
Of course it's unrealistic, it's a game! Unrealistic is also leaping out from behind a wall taking nanoseconds to aim and get a headshot from 500 metres with a deagle!
:angry:
Quote from: Penfold;239081To kill someone with a Last Stand Perk you just need to shoot them again right? Does it need to be a headshot or anything or just a single body hit?
PEN
You simply have to KILL them. Leave a bit of health and it can be utilised to good effect. :norty:
Ouch, Free, a bit strong but I do understand the sentiment.
To be honest, the perks can be frustrating (I used to hate Claymores, now I hate the Dead Silence perk), however they are part of the game and can be "managed" (for want of a better word).
Calling in a heli when playing 2v2 or air striking spawn at round start are other examples of where the game allows you to do things that aren't the dMw way.
But hey, its all part of the game.
Butta, no need to keep your opinions to yourself - just remember we don't all have the reactions of greased lightning and have to take our (little) victories where we can get them :)
QuoteWhen we play games it is about fairness, teamwork and fun but also about balance. Perks like martyrdom and last stand could take the fun out of it and we could lose players
Doc, while I agree with you on the way we play I don't agree that perks like Martyrdom or Last Stand will drive people away - if people really are that concerned by those two perks (which means they can't use others which can be equally annoying) then they better not play on publics where those perks are really prevalent.
My 2p
I have no objections to it and yes I can see frustration it happens to me. But now I just spend a little more time making sure that the target is down, which is usual another bullet or clip depending if they have stab me in that game.
In all it is just a perk used to get more score to get to the higher lvl imo. If people are using it after they got it, then they are missing out on other things which could be more useful. And that's the difference we all play differently and makes it so exicting.
I am for keeping it in but if the powers that be (all of us) deciede not to have it then I wont be unhappy. Just means more bullets for the rest of you :)
my 2p
I'm a big fan. I kill more people with it than get me.
I don't like the UAV jammer.
All these sneaky people keeping off my radar. Stop it and Stop it now:D
Personally I like the idea of the last stand perk, but find the way it’s been implemented highly irritating.
My main problem with it is the speed at which last stand drops you to the floor and whips out the pistol. In a close range fire fight this rapid drop almost guarantees a kill (unless you opponent has a fetish for kneecaps).
If we could delay the pulling out of the pistol slightly I’d be happy, but as it currently stands I don’t care for it at all.
It’s also worth noting that the best way to deal with a ‘last stand’er is to hide and lets the b*$tard bleed to death.
Frenzy, It's the only way i get to kill you mate:yahoo:
We promote teamwork. More than that - we insist upon it. For this reason alone we have decided that the martyrdom perk is not to be used on our servers as the chance of it killing your teammates is greater than if playing fraghunter on a public.
If you have a problem with this then air your concerns in a mature manner in the feedback thread. (http://www.deadmen.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=23883) It's what it's there for.
I see nothing wrong with using the Last Stand perk. I don't like it but there is a way in-game to counteract it - shoot some more.:)
What I don't fully understand is why people chose it? It's only used when you're about to die. Why not use one of the other perks which gives you an advantage while you're alive and fighting? Steady Aim or Deep Impact would benefit your team more.
Quote from: Armitage;239098Frenzy, It's the only way i get to kill you mate:yahoo:
I might of had you in mind :sideways:
Quote from: target;239085Doc, while I agree with you on the way we play I don't agree that perks like Martyrdom or Last Stand will drive people away [...]
I never said that they will drive people away but could. If members voice their concern regarding something I feel we should at least hear them out before jumping on them.
Quote from: target;239085[...] if people really are that concerned by those two perks (which means they can't use others which can be equally annoying) then they better not play on publics where those perks are really prevalent.
My 2p
And this is one of the reasons why dMw have their own servers and don't rely on "public" servers. We try to make the experience enjoyable, in good spirit and with a team/objective focus. Removing the martyr perk is good for that reason. A healthy sound discussion regarding the last stand perk will determine if we should have it or not. Using "it is in the game" argument as a sole argument is a bit dangerous as it could justify a lot of unsportmanlike behaviour in other areas e.g. nade spamming and airstrikes at spawn. That is what I am a bit concerned about.
I understand why Last Stand and Martyr perks are there, but I find both more suitable for DM style of game. Also as FrenZy pointed out the Last Stand perk is poorly executed and makes it more powerful than it should be. The martyr perk though could be used as a suicide attack and I find that more tactical from that point of view. Still it is annoying when your own team gets blown up by it.
I think Last Stand is a bit of a frag hunters Perk. I understand that taking out one of the enemy can help the team, but I don't think it happens enough to be a real perk, and as time goes on it will happen less.
As OB said there are perks that are better suited to help the team.
Quote from: Penfold;239058Free, your response was totally unjustified. it's fine to disagree but your post is bang out of order . :eyebrow:
PEN
Disagreeing makes the Baby Jesus cry.
Quote from: OldBloke;239100What I don't fully understand is why people chose it? It's only used when you're about to die. Why not use one of the other perks which gives you an advantage while you're alive and fighting?
Double XP..
Personally im with Ranger, I kill with it more than it kills me..
Quote from: Jewelz^;239109Double XP..
Personally im with Ranger, I kill with it more than it kills me..
Ranger hasn't posted in this thread but - you psychic? :)
lol @ doggers
PEN
Quote from: Penfold;239111Ranger hasn't posted in this thread but - you psychic? :)
lol @ doggers
PEN
Armartage then..
Picky :rolleyes:
Quote from: Jewelz^;239112Armartage then..
Picky :rolleyes:
No post here by Armartage either. :devil:
Old 'picky' Bloke
I think Doc argued the case for it to be removed alot better than I did and if he had been the original poster maybe freestyler would have thought it not ok to have a go. I'll certainly try not to upset him next time i post an opinion......
anyway, quoting doc...
QuoteI think that the last stand perk is too powerful when combined with HC mode. As Butta said, you can shoot someone point blank from behind with a high power rifle and then they swivel around (like a breakdancer) on the ground and shoot one shot in you with a less powerful gun and you are dead. I find that unrealistic. Still, it is easy to keep shooting an extra second to finish them off.
I totally agree with this, hardcore mode makes some abilities like last stand/helicopter/air strikes a little too strong.
Some of you might not have played non-hardcore much? well in the normal mode helicopters are very easy to survive and you can get in to cover after it starts firing, but in hardcore rack up 6 kills before anyone see's them and win the round/match for the team that have it. The point of copters should be to pin the other team down (make them hide in cover). Not kill them all for you, then its just a fraghunter ability. Shame that the damage of helicopters cant be reduced in line with the health reduce from hardcore or something.
I think Frenzy summed it up well:
QuoteMy main problem with it is the speed at which last stand drops you to the floor and whips out the pistol. In a close range fire fight this rapid drop almost guarantees a kill
someone who just got shot in the face usually needs some time to recover and wipe the blood out his eyes before shooting his pistol at you.
and OB's comments about it being a death perk, no advantage when your
alive, I think are spot on! If your aiming to die every round I spose you might get full use out of it but I'm sure the team would rather you had steadier aim or bullet penetration so you got the guy in the first place. It seems like a selfish perk :P probably explained this part badly and will get attacked for it.... long rambling post :rolleyes:
Quote from: OldBloke;239113No post here by Armartage either. :devil:
Old 'picky' Bloke
:roflmao: Quick - oh very quick.
And Jewelzey you know it's all in fun :thumbsup2:
PEN
Quote from: FrEnZy;239097It’s also worth noting that the best way to deal with a ‘last stand’er is to hide and lets the b*$tard bleed to death.
Personally, I hate it when someone shoots me and then hides so I can't have a last pop back. It should be banned! Come out where I can see you, you chicken livered sob! :taz:
Just in case there's any misunderstanding, the above was 'humour©'
Perhaps it might be an idea to have a list of perks that ARE acceptable. Instead of whinging about what 'isn't fair' or 'realistic' let hear what IS fair/realistic.
To be honest this is all starting to create an undercurrent of dissatisfaction which beginning to be a off putting. :sideways:
Quote from: OldBloke;239100...What I don't fully understand is why people chose it? It's only used when you're about to die...
It's a last attempt to extract some price for your death in what was, up to that point, a useless contribution to the team. :D
It's annoying to get shot be the last stand junkies, but it's just as annoying to be shot by some twunt after you've sprayed his face in CS.
I don't like it, but am happy with it left in.
Quote from: Doorman;239126Perhaps it might be an idea to have a list of perks that ARE acceptable. Instead of whinging about what 'isn't fair' or 'realistic' let hear what IS fair/realistic.
To be honest this is all starting to create an undercurrent of dissatisfaction which beginning to be a off putting. :sideways:
Why not argue your case why this perk should be allowed instead of telling people that their opinion is whinging. :rolleyes:
Last stand is unfair?
What I think is unfair is that us late comers to the game are only on level 15 while everyone else is approaching 50 and have all the guns, rockets and grenades under the sun!
Last stand is all I have to try and get kills. Well besides my Primary and secondary weapons, my RPG's my knife my grenade launchers but that's not th point...
But on a more serious note, Last stand is frustrating, but that only because you didn't kill em good enough. I hate it when I get pwned by Bastet dying and me thinking 'job well done, I'll treat myself with a sip of beer' them blam I'm dead and there's some guy in front of me spinning around on his back waving his legs around in the air and shooting a pistol.
Last stand is unrealistic, you should at least have your vision impaired such as the old red haze around the outside and a bit of a shaky hand, but it's no more unrealistic than shooting somebody in the back and them still being able to turn around and shoot you in the face. (I'm referring to if you've shot them but not killed them rather than last stand.)
I'm a bit confused with the "fag hunter" label being thrown around.
I use laststand on all most everyone of my custom classes. I have even managed a 3 man kill streak as I was defending a BS, was that frag hunting. Or was I doing the best for my team.
Air strike on spawn as the rounds starts, is Frag hunting. (cough. cough Frenzy) But using an air strike to clear a bombsite of T's, so you can defuse the bomb, Is not.
UAV Jammer used to hide a sniper to pick of players as they spawn is Frag Hunting. But used to hide a way to snip down on a BS, is not
My point being really is that it's not the perk that's bad. It's how they are used.
Quote from: Armitage;239137
Air strike on spawn as the rounds starts, is Frag hunting. (cough. cough Frenzy) But using an air strike to clear a bombsite of T's, so you can defuse the bomb, Is not.
I agree with the spawn one but surely you're trying to stop them from blowing up the bomb spot? Why the jebus would you send an air strike to a place you were trying to stop being blown up :doh:
LOL, is see your point. But it works with outside Bombsites.
Quote from: Dr Sadako;239133Why not argue your case why this perk should be allowed instead of telling people that their opinion is whinging. :rolleyes:
Because it's....ah to hell.
Quote from: Armitage;239137 I have even managed a 3 man kill streak as I was defending a BS, was that frag hunting. Or was I doing the best for my team.
Frag Hunter! :narnar: I think you were the person that introduced me to death by last stand. Perhaps I am bitter.
anyway..
So let me get this straight, you're on your back, almost dead, whooping around like Homer Simpson, you kill 3 people, who are mobile and have "proper" guns.
For me that shows how overpowered the perk is.
edit: Homer Whoop Whoop Spinning thing ;)
http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=fbSMxJVqXn4
Quote from: Armitage;239137Air strike on spawn as the rounds starts, is Frag hunting. (cough. cough Frenzy) ...
Aww come on, I said I was sorry. The UAV was up, I could see you all milling around, I just couldn't help myself.
If anything it was an act of pure evil rather than frag hunting!
Quote from: Armitage;239137My point being really is that it's not the perk that's bad. It's how they are used.
Last stand only has one use, post death revenge.
Now i'm not saying we should ban the perk, just keep its use in check. If everyone on the server starts using it, then its a good indication of it being overpowered.
I was in a corridor and they all run through the door in a big pack. They were plain reckless, there CO should give them a good talking too.
I did Kill 4/5 people with one grenade the other day. Over powered or good/bad luck.
Well I believe an M26 hand grenade has a blasting distance of 10m, a killing distance of 5m. In COD I always complain if I die when I'm about 2 m from the grenade "IT WAS F-IN MILES AWAY!!". If anything the grenades are pretty pathetic...
EDIT: Yey, 400 posts!
Sorry the only problem I can see is that people get miffed, because they think they have done the work in killing someone. To have him come back from the grave and kick them in the nuts. Even more annoying would be then for someone else kill the guy on the floor. Getting the credit for the kill you died getting.:roflmao:
But sorry people need to check there targets before celebrating another kill. When you kill someone with laststand. you do get a little red cross logo to tell you.
Quote from: Doorman;239127It's a last attempt to extract some price for your death in what was, up to that point, a useless contribution to the team. :D
Use the other perks and you may find your contribution less than useless.
Quote from: Toxteth;239136... Last stand is all I have to try and get kills. Well besides my Primary and secondary weapons, my RPG's my knife my grenade launchers ...
Now we're getting there.
Quote from: Toxteth;239136... me thinking 'job well done, I'll treat myself with a sip of beer' them blam I'm dead and there's some guy in front of me spinning around on his back waving his legs around in the air and shooting a pistol.
and ...
Quote from: Jamoe;239141... so let me get this straight, you're on your back, almost dead, whooping around like Homer Simpson, you kill 3 people, who are mobile and have "proper" guns.
Can you see the pattern emerging here? If you see an enemy on his back, spinning like a top and holding a pistol ... SHOOT HIM :doh:
Quote from: Armitage;239137I'm a bit confused with the "fag hunter" label being thrown around.
No fag hunting allowed either. :flirty:
Quote from: FrEnZy;239142Last stand only has one use, post death revenge.
Now i'm not saying we should ban the perk, just keep its use in check. If everyone on the server starts using it, then its a good indication of it being overpowered.
I reckon that once people learn to counter the perk it will fall out of use naturally.
Quote from: Salvatore Buttafacio;239115someone who just got shot in the face usually needs some time to recover and wipe the blood out his eyes before shooting his pistol at you.
If you die by headshot the perk dont work, death by blast (nades/RPG's) same.
Quote from: Armitage;239148But sorry people need to check there targets before celebrating another kill. When you kill someone with laststand. you do get a little red cross logo to tell you.
The cross if for Juggernaught (double HP).
Quote from: OldBloke;239154I reckon that once people learn to counter the perk it will fall out of use naturally.
I am with OB here, once you know some1 has LS in thier kit you can just tap 2 more bullets into them and no more perk use. On public servers / RIP servers you will almost never get a kill with it. On dMw you can normaly get 1 or 2. Imba, or not yet properly counterd?
Quote from: OldBloke;239113No post here by Armartage either. :devil:
Old 'picky' Bloke
Armitage && Armartage.. Same or different?
Quote from: Jewelz^;239250Armitage && Armartage.. Same or different?
Well ...
The answer to ...
x = ('Armitage' == 'Armartage')
x is FALSE
and the answer to ...
x = 'Armitage' && 'Armartage'
x = 'Armartage'
I win :D
Quiet day at work huh? :roflmao:
PEN
Quote from: OldBloke;239257Well ...
The answer to ...
x = ('Armitage' == 'Armartage')
x is FALSE
and the answer to ...
x = 'Armitage' && 'Armartage'
x = 'Armartage'
I win :D
so if x is FALSE
then its the same person... :blink:
Quote from: Jewelz^;239250Armitage && Armartage.. Same or different?
Same same, but different...
Well this is an interesting thread *cough* a 6 page discussion so far...
I'd keep it in, its hardly broken, I played COD 4 online solidly for nearly a year, on hardcore etc and not that many people even use it on pub servers, theres perks that are more useful more of the time, ie Deep Impact and the perk that gives you two guns etc - I can understand the dMw ethos, teamwork, fun etc but its not like the solutions difficult is it - just stick a few more bullets in them and no more knee capping.
And for the arguments about realism, well obviously its a game so that arguments gone right out of the window and while I have no real life combat experience, we've all heard of real accounts of people being shot numerous times and then going on continuing to fight - not just lying down shooting but actually moving around and shooting before they die - theres accounts of people doing this in Afghanistan right now - often found to be on a cocktail of drugs.
Unless a large majority agree they don't like it I'd keep it but if you must, why not have a poll to decide and do it democratically? Personally I wouldn't go down that route, pretty soon you'll end up removing everything as no-one likes all the features in a game...
Just my 2pence worth which in our current economic climate I know isn't worth a whole heap :narnar:
ps hi guys long time no see/chat/play/kill etc..
Whilst we're not on the subject Dewey - you coming to the LAN?
Sign ups are open for Charlies.....
PEN
We will as long as we don't have to be in ear shot of the 'Sweet' crew - Ghost Mjr this means you :narnar: For the love of all thats sacred we've endured it for 3 years I'm pleading with you to move us to at least the next table....I have a child now dammit lol!
Quote from: Penfold;239616Whilst we're not on the subject Dewey - you coming to the LAN?
Sign ups are open for Charlies.....
PEN
lol. Fair dues.
I'll sit next to Dewey if no one wants. :devil:
'The Sweet Crew' - oh I do like that. :roflmao:
Quote from: DuVeL;239631I'll sit next to Dewey if no one wants. :devil:
Mate would be glad of your company :) I was a such a sorry state last lan - mostly my own fault coming with a bust network card - that Uncle Benny (not the rice manufacturer) took me under his wing and and let me suckle a while on his gaming teat - much appreciated !
Quote from: Dewey;239747Mate would be glad of your company :) I was a such a sorry state last lan - mostly my own fault coming with a bust network card - that Uncle Benny (not the rice manufacturer) took me under his wing and and let me suckle a while on his gaming teat - much appreciated !
eww!:sideways: