It's debating time ...
Should the Ts be allowed to enter the sewer?
I reckon T's should be allowed in the sewers, up to that corner where you always meet.
...although stopping them coming into the sewer might make for more interesting games, and horriffic carnage when 6 CT rush out into an ak ;)
QuoteTs should not advance further down the sewers than the first elbow that is encountered after entering the sewer near the back gate.
http://forum.deadmen.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=448 (http://forum.deadmen.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=448)
From the boundaries it is clear that the Ts are allowed down there.
I think that oldie is asking if we should change the boundaries and not allow the T's in the sewer.
It would give the Ct's more of a chance but if you have 2 even skilled and manned teams then it is normally a very good match.
So i personally think it is fine the way it is.
It would give the CT side a better advantage......being able to use both sets of cams could prove interesting........
And
The fact why i could never understand the T team's cam position.....Making the 2nd set of cams out of bounds would be a natural limit ...................but would it kill the enjoyment of the defending team
im sitting on the fence for a few more posts :popcorn:
Remove the map! :twisted:
I think that way back on N42 the Ts weren't allowed down the sewers and that seemed to be working ok. Might worth a try.
Not a big fan, but I think T should go in the sewers, but it affects other stuff if you stop it.
I've noticed lately on the map it just turns into T's camping the roof and CT's trying to storm it. I know the alternative is T's camping the hossies, but it isn't conducive to a good game. THere are only so many times it is funny to charge and get sniped by 1 of 5 T's with scopes on the roof.
Yes the alternative is to take the sewers, but let's be honest, it's not hard to defend them either. To many times I've seen that once the CT's are passed the sniper run, the T's just wait for the hostage-touch excuse to lay another ambush back outside.
IMHO T's should be trying to prevent the touch in the first place, not just waiting for some more sniping practice. 1 or 2 snipers yes, 5 or 6, gets a bit crap don't you think?
Personally I prefer the DE version, but if I had to vote, let the T's stay in the sewers.
I think the de version is a more balanced map.In reality the cs maps two sets of hossies are really only one point to defend being so close to eachother.
I think if the CTs have a strategy to get themselves close to the house and co-ordinate an attack they can get the upper hand. Rushing is no use.
Certainly the serwers at the T camera room should be in bounds but I would limit the Ts to the first corner only, meaning they cannot go down the other sewer ladder. This would let the Ts defend the back sewer only but would lead to more interesting sewer battles.
I find the map tedious in matchplay as the games drags on forever. I'll be voting it off the server next time but would keep the DE version if we had a swap. :)
yes, in matchplay you normally end up with the T's camping the lower floor, although the occasional assault/sniper-attack by the T's can be very handy :D
btw, wheres this 2nd set of cameras? The ones in the sewer are designed to be used by the CT, not the T. I would say the map was designed for the T's to stay in and around the house, possibly camping in the the camera room, but not normally. It's just that the sewer creats a choke point where one T can hold off the entire CT team, and so sticking one guy in them can greatly benefit the defenses, in much the same way that 2 or 3 guys on the roof sniping can pin down all the CT. It's not so bad in either route with PCS as the T's dont have awp's though.
I would add that a competent CT rush at the house can work very well esp. when there's no awp's on the roof. Throw a bunch of grenades and then all storm in through the front door, perhaps leaving one or two to snipe at the roof guys. The more targets the snipers on the roof can see at any one time the better as your teams snipers get a better chance to aim.
You have to face facts that almost any cs_ map will turn into a camp/sniping fest. italy, siege, militia...which is another reason de_ maps are the more common match maps...
....never played the de_ version...
I feel the Ts would be more efective guarding the sewer man-holes from above ground..... so let em into the sewers I say as CT can always rely on the fact intelligence will not play a part :-)
although i do enjoy milita, i do think that we should remove it in the next map swapage thingy. replace it with a more even map.
Quotealthough i do enjoy milita, i do think that we should remove it in the next map swapage thingy. replace it with a more even map.
I am starting disagree with removing normal maps from the rotation.
This is a good map in my oppinion as it offers the use of all weapons ie:- Sniper, shotty etc.... it would be a shame to remove yet another good map.
Make use of Balders like we used to and only use it for matches and Custom maps.
Quote
Make use of Balders like we used to and only use it for matches and Custom maps.
I have been thinking along these lines too. I think we should consider to to have a standard maps only rotation on MH and custom maps on Baldric (or maybe a mix on Baldric). I think we could attract more people to PCS this way.
Mmm, disagree I think. One of the attractions to me is to be able to play on a server that is NOT a standard rotation. I am bored witless with the standard maps. If MH becomes the standard CS installed maps only then, attractive as PCS is, I won't be there.
My 2p ;-)
QuoteMmm, disagree I think. One of the attractions to me is to be able to play on a server that is NOT a standard rotation. I am bored witless with the standard maps. If MH becomes the standard CS installed maps only then, attractive as PCS is, I won't be there.
My 2p ;-)
I know that there are ppl who don't like the custom maps at all. I know of a few ppl that actually haven't joined our PCS community due to the custom maps!
If one of the servers had standard maps in the rotation we might fill both servers. Also you wouldn't need to download a large map pack to play PCS. You could try it out on the standard rotation. If you liked it you could go hardcore later with the custom ones.
QuoteMmm, disagree I think. One of the attractions to me is to be able to play on a server that is NOT a standard rotation. I am bored witless with the standard maps. If MH becomes the standard CS installed maps only then, attractive as PCS is, I won't be there.
My 2p ;-)
I have to say that I am of a similar feeling, however I would classify 'custom maps' as maps that suit a PCS style. There are enough DM type maps out there for all others to fill their boots and I do not think we should try to compete. Personally if a couple of custom maps put some people off PCS then they have never read the rules, are not interested in PCS and would not add anything of valueto the community. People interested in the PCS style will not be put off by 'non-standard' maps.
Oh yeah, should I comment on the sewers? Ok, then I will. Personally I like the challenge of being on CT on cs_militia. It gives all players a great opportunity to shoot a range of weapons (as Smitee said) and allows close quater combat and sniping alike. The sewers would become mighty boring for both CT and T if the Ts were not allowed in there. The whole map would become much more constricted and perversely I believe this would actually make it harder for the CTs to win a round, as the Ts would just hole up and wait for the attack. Very boring if you ask me :(
TL. 8)
I think everyone has maps they dislike, whether on pcs or not. some maps/nights I prefer normal free-for alls. Some nights I just want to know no-ones creeping round the other way to knife me in the back and that my team arent gonna spread out randomly :) and occasionally I join fy_ and he_ maps for 30 minutes of ridiculousness ;)
if you hate a particular map someone else is bound to love it. Sometimes I drop on the maps I dislike and rejoin later on, same if I am in a non-pcs mood or can't handle the team I'm in on the night. Nothing is static. I often disagree with tactics or some comments made on these boards, and I'm sure people get annoyed with me for doing and not-doing things how they expect me to as well, but I still love the general community/teamwork aspect that normally exists on the PCS servers
it aint perfect but we like it that way 8)
I do feel it'd be nice to see the map rotation altered more frequently though - maybe drop and pick up one map each month and then have your normal big vote once every 6 months or so?
Agree with TL, the map can be very good. One of it's problems (if it is a problem) is that it's not uncommon to have only one or two players alive and creaping about after the initial carve up. I've often seen the timer run right down to zero, which can be tedious for the dead players.
It's much like dust and Italy, in that it's only as good as the players make it. If the attcking team are creative and co-ordinated, it forces the defenders to act likewise and so produces a good game.
If for example, the CT's run about like idiots outside the front of the house in say Militia, then it can descend into a turkey shoot for the T's.
Very busy maps like Piranisi, volaire and Survivor can stifle quality play as it's hard to make the game flow and develope co-ordinated attacks and defences.
The most complex game in the world "chess" is played on the simplest board, nothing but 64 black and white squares. Likewise I'd argue the best CS maps are ones that are relatively simple and don't get in the way of good tactical developement. Dust isn't the most popular CS map in the world for nothing. (/me ducks :) )
Oh and leave th T's access to the sewers
Bravo !! bravo !!
/me applauds Smilodon...
That is exactly how i feel about things, i MUCH prefer simple maps that are easy going on the eye and the brain. Things like Piranesi, Survivor(not too bad really), bittershite and the like dont appeal to me because when i play i just wanna relax and have some fun. Take a look at Aztec, imho it's possibly the best map ever made, the challenge of overcoming a heavily defended CT stronghold really does it and i MUCH rather enjoy overcoming the opposition by being on the hardest side. Ever need someone to be on the hard side then ask me cos i love it. :D
Leave Militia as it is, have a radical shake up asking people just what maps they DO want in and ask for opinion as to why they want them. No offence to anyone that voted for them in the polls, but does ANYONE enjoy Mog and Bitterwine? I've often wondered what makes people vote yes when we have the map rotation poll, i even at one stage thought as_hunted was gonna get in after hearing people talk about it while playing, and that was possibly the most 1 sided map i've played ever. Apart from De_onesidedpieceofcrap.
So in short...
1) Leave Militia as it is.
2) Take a serious look at the other existing custom maps.
3) Tweak the custom maps so their one after the other.
Oops, forgot to mention that my vote is to leave militia as it is. yes, it can be tedious if you are dead (believe me I know ALL about this one), and yes it can be a blat fest but as JB and Smilo said, it can also be a damn fine map. IMHO it is balanced at the mo.
QuoteVery busy maps like Piranisi, volaire and Survivor can stifle quality play as it's hard to make the game flow and develope co-ordinated attacks and defences.
Piranesi is a hard map to play well. Why? Because you need at least 7 ppl on each team to make it work. I have played Piranesi 10 vs 10 and it was a blast. The map is made for larger teams. 5vs5 on Piranesi is bollocks.
Regarding survivor it is a very good PCS map with lots of options. This one is also best played with 5vs5 or more. I really don't see how you not could do coordinated attacks on survivor. This is THE distraction map. The mind games you can play on this one. :D
Quote No offence to anyone that voted for them in the polls, but does ANYONE enjoy Mog and Bitterwine?
Survivor replaced Mog some time ago. I think bitterwine is a good PCS map. This one also requires some more people on each team. It is a damn hard map as CT as Ts have 5 and 4 different ways to approach each bombsite.
Intersting points. I guess every map can play good and bad depending on the circumstances.
i dont know anyone that likes that chicken coup map. Bogshite!
yeah but there are plenty of peeps to play, I'd imagine you'd get a game on baldric most weekends.....yes? no?