Dead Men Walking

How many of you would be interested in a one hour team race? 2 drivers, 15 minute stints more rules when I've thought of them. :norty:

Sounds good!  Do you think anyone will notice if I'm sandbagging in qualy? :g:

Quote from: The Moose;250780Sounds good!  Do you think anyone will notice if I'm sandbagging in qualy? :g:

:rolleyes: we have a technically advanced web interface thingy :g:
it tells us your fastest lap on that combo......so yes :flirty:

Quote from: The Moose;250780Sounds good!  Do you think anyone will notice if I'm sandbagging in qualy? :g:

Nah, wouldn't think so. :rolleyes:

Crimbo will be the XFR :) and new year will be the FBM :sideways:

Here are my thoughts on the format for an hour team race.

• 2 drivers
• 3 stints each of 10 minutes
• Making 5 pit stops :doh:
• Enough fuel to make approx 10 minutes.(we'll work that out)
• Teams to make their own decisions as to when to change over, given that they've only just enough fuel to mess with. e.g. faster driver uses more fuel-slower driver uses le....you get the idea. :)
• Short track. My first thought was South city chicane.

• Car? I was thinking something out of rotation, maybe XFR (damages easily) or XRT (tough and quick enough)
• Setup: RACE_S

That's as far as I got except perhaps to do this on the normal Sunday spot. We'll need to be well supported so the holiday dates probably wouldn't be a good idea
If we can decide on a date I'll put a post in the LFS forum.

Your thoughts chaps, if you please. :)

Without thinking too much, that looks like a plan that I can support. It's gonna be fun.

Thinking a bit more:

Quote* 2 drivers
    * 3 stints each of 10 minutes
    * Making 5 pit stops

Good

Quote* Enough fuel to make approx 10 minutes.(we'll work that out)

All stints with same fuel load? Sounds good.

Quote* Teams to make their own decisions as to when to change over, given that they've only just enough fuel to mess with. e.g. faster driver uses more fuel-slower driver uses le....you get the idea.

Hmm. I'd prefer giving laps when you must change. Or how do you mean?
 

Quote* Short track. My first thought was South city chicane.

    * Car? I was thinking something out of rotation, maybe XFR (damages easily) or XRT (tough and quick enough)

Yes, short track please! Lots of action and tight battles. I would say XFR, fast but pretty stable.

I would also like to suggest, that this time we would not stick to Race_S, but agree on a set that has at least gearing suitable for the track. To avoid disputes I would let Doorman decide which set to use, but I would not like to drive Race_S if it suits the track as bad as UF1 Race_S did for AS Cadet.

QuoteThat's as far as I got except perhaps to do this on the normal Sunday spot. We'll need to be well supported so the holiday dates probably wouldn't be a good idea
If we can decide on a date I'll put a post in the LFS forum.

Sunday night would work for me. How about November 30th?

Quote from: Doorman;251243Here are my thoughts on the format for an hour team race.

• Enough fuel to make approx 10 minutes.(we'll work that out)
• Teams to make their own decisions as to when to change over, given that they've only just enough fuel to mess with. e.g. faster driver uses more fuel-slower driver uses le....you get the idea. :)

Not sure if i get what you mean , if you can only do a 10 minute stint then fuel should be the same 4 both drivers ?

Like the car / track choice's and think 5 pit stops could add something :)

Quote from: delankster;251246Not sure if i get what you mean , if you can only do a 10 minute stint then fuel should be the same 4 both drivers ?

Like the car / track choice's and think 5 pit stops could add something :)

You'd have to refuel at every pit stop. So, say we decide on 10% fuel, we also have 10% to refuel. It'd be interesting to see how much fuel each of us has left. :norty:

Quote from: romus;251244All stints with same fuel load? Sounds good.

Hmm. I'd prefer giving laps when you must change. Or how do you mean?
 

Well, it would add a bit of strategy (if that's your bag) Besides, in an hour race faster drivers would do more laps and the slower drivers (all right, ME) wouldn't get sufficient laps in.

QuoteI would also like to suggest, that this time we would not stick to Race_S, but agree on a set that has at least gearing suitable for the track. To avoid disputes I would let Doorman decide which set to use, but I would not like to drive Race_S if it suits the track as bad as UF1 Race_S did for AS Cadet.

To be fair, the UF1 has been the first car that has suffered like this

QuoteSunday night would work for me. How about November 30th?

I'm good with that. :)

Quote from: Doorman;251249Besides, in an hour race faster drivers would do more laps and the slower drivers (all right, ME) wouldn't get sufficient laps in.

Oh, me stupid! :doh: 1h race is time based, not on lap count. So, swap after about every 10 minutes.

gotcha :thumbsup2:

Sounds all good to me! I think Sunday would work best for most of us, as that's already team racing night. I have to add, though, that I'll usually quit at about 9pm your time (ie. 10pm my time), because I have to get up early everyday to go to work :angry: So I'd prefer that the race start at about 8pm your time, if that's possible.

Also, how will the teams be decided? The same way as on normal team racing nights? It'd probably be useful to ask drivers to sort of "sign up" beforehand (eg. on the forum) so you have an idea of how many drivers there will be and all?

I can see no reason why we couldn't start it earlier, say 19:45gmt for a 20:00 start. If we spread the word on Vent and in the LFS forum I'm sure we'll get plenty of runners.

So, November 30th 19:45 for 20:00 start time. South city chicane route with XRTs. Yes?

Quote from: Doorman;251339So, November 30th 19:45 for 20:00 start time. South city chicane route with XRTs. Yes?

That's a yes from me :)

Quote from: Doorman;251339So, November 30th 19:45 for 20:00 start time. South city chicane route with XRTs. Yes?

:thumb:

Wodger.:)

:norty: oh yes

Right! Game on. I've made a post in the LFS forum (http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=50466) and also put it in their calendar as well as ours. All that remains is for me not to forget. :rolleyes:

I'd better get some practice in the XRT then! I've never driven that one before :)

EDIT: oh, I forgot, will Race_S be used, or is everyone free to use a set of their preference? I'd prefer everyone use Race_S as it makes for closer racing. You'd do well to mention that in your post on the LFS forum, in that case :)

Quote from: obsolum;251425I'd better get some practice in the XRT then! I've never driven that one before :)

EDIT: oh, I forgot, will Race_S be used, or is everyone free to use a set of their preference? I'd prefer everyone use Race_S as it makes for closer racing. You'd do well to mention that in your post on the LFS forum, in that case :)

Yep, RACE_S has served us well in the past. Really? You've never used the XRT?

Quote from: obsolum;251425You'd do well to mention that in your post on the LFS forum, in that case :)

Well spotted. Done!

Quote from: Doorman;251448Really? You've never used the XRT?

I just did a check on LFSW and it appears I've driven it more than I thought :eyebrow: I've driven it a total of 142km on a number of tracks. I'm really surprised at this, I can only remember one time when I accidentally selected the XRT on CTRA Race 2 :g:

Oh well, that's why I love dMr, I get to drive all kinds of cars I normally wouldn't drive :D

Quote from: Doorman;251339I can see no reason why we couldn't start it earlier, say 19:45gmt for a 20:00 start. If we spread the word on Vent and in the LFS forum I'm sure we'll get plenty of runners.

So, November 30th 19:45 for 20:00 start time. South city chicane route with XRTs. Yes?

 You just made my day:D
 Our XRT Stock Cup has a break that week for the American Thanksgiving. So count myself and Dave in for sure:D I haven't asked him yet but I know I don't have to.:yahoo:

Quote from: Toddshooter;251517You just made my day:D
 

My sole purpose in life. :)

Quote from: obsolum;251488I just did a check on LFSW and it appears I've driven it more than I thought :eyebrow: I've driven it a total of 142km on a number of tracks. I'm really surprised at this, I can only remember one time when I accidentally selected the XRT on CTRA Race 2 :g:

Oh well, that's why I love dMr, I get to drive all kinds of cars I normally wouldn't drive :D

You'll love what is on the back of your car skin then. :D

Sounds like a great idea! :) This will be only two days before my first final exam (ugh... :( ) but I'll try to be there!

So far I haven't participated in any of the team events on Sundays (due to other commitments) but hopefully that'll change soon.

Quote from: Toddshooter;251517You just made my day:D
 Our XRT Stock Cup has a break that week for the American Thanksgiving. So count myself and Dave in for sure:D I haven't asked him yet but I know I don't have to.:yahoo:

....like he said.....:blink:

Don't forget to practice with the XRT, RACE_S at South city chicane. Kick off at 8pm this Sunday

Seeing as you can't touch your brake pedal with the race-s set without a lockup.   Could we have someone take off a few clicks of brake force and then use just this slightly modded race-s?

Will the Race_S set last for an hour? (The tyres I mean)

Quote from: Toddshooter;252865Seeing as you can't touch your brake pedal with the race-s set without a lockup. Could we have someone take off a few clicks of brake force and then use just this slightly modded race-s?

The trouble is where does it end? :g: "Seeing as you can't turn in properly can we change the camber a tad?"
 
There's a little man sitting on my shoulder saying "Let them use whatever they like" but then I'm tired, I expect he'll go away very soon. :norty:

Quote from: Gnomie;252867Will the Race_S set last for an hour? (The tyres I mean)

That remains to be seen. :)

Quote from: Doorman;252868The trouble is where does it end? :g: "Seeing as you can't turn in properly can we change the camber a tad?"
 
There's a little man sitting on my shoulder saying "Let them use whatever they like" but then I'm tired, I expect he'll go away very soon. :norty:

 The only thing that is undrivable about the set is the brakes...they are mad to be honest:D
 All the other aspects of the set can be overcome quite easily. After many laps though the brakes are a huge issue.
Just my 2cents:)

Quote from: Doorman;252868The trouble is where does it end? :g: "Seeing as you can't turn in properly can we change the camber a tad?"

I was going to write a long and deep philosophical reply, but then I tried the RACE_S and thought that it will work ok for me.. :D

Quote from: romus;252886I was going to write a long and deep philosophical reply, but then I tried the RACE_S and thought that it will work ok for me.. :D

 Thanks for your full support:D  See Doors it isn't just me:sad:

Stop bustin' my balls! :doh:

Oi, leave Doorz alone! *shakes fist* :)

Race_S has nearly always been used on team racing nights. And on many occasions there have been complaints in the beginning, but at the end of the night most people were quite happy with the set. It just takes some getting used to, in some cases a bit more than others. Now, I'll admit that I haven't tried the combo yet, and I'm sure the brakes are horrible but... I just have to say: SUCK IT UP! We're all gonna be driving the same set, and we're all gonna be struggling with the brakes most likely. A good driver can adapt to even the worst of sets, I should think :flirty: Besides, there's plenty of pitstops for the driver changes, so plenty occasions to change tyres and/or repair some damage.

Hopefully I can get some laps in on that combo tonight and I'll know what you mean about the brakes, but my opinion will stay the same :)

Quote from: obsolum;252960Oi, leave Doorz alone! *shakes fist* :)

Race_S has nearly always been used on team racing nights. And on many occasions there have been complaints in the beginning, but at the end of the night most people were quite happy with the set. It just takes some getting used to, in some cases a bit more than others. Now, I'll admit that I haven't tried the combo yet, and I'm sure the brakes are horrible but... I just have to say: SUCK IT UP! We're all gonna be driving the same set, and we're all gonna be struggling with the brakes most likely. A good driver can adapt to even the worst of sets, I should think :flirty: Besides, there's plenty of pitstops for the driver changes, so plenty occasions to change tyres and/or repair some damage.

Hopefully I can get some laps in on that combo tonight and I'll know what you mean about the brakes, but my opinion will stay the same :)

You are henceforth to be known as dMrGuardDog :lmfao:
You saved me a post. :)
I'll be running some AI to see what kind of fuel load we need to last 11-12 minutes. The way I see it, the heavy footed will have to restrain themselves until the latter stages when there will be a build up of fuel. So lots to ponder over eh? :norty:

The brake power and balance seems ok to me, but it turns like a whale especially in few corners. I say the suspension and tyres need a sledgehammer.

Don't you think it would have been better using the same as the weekly combo? :sideways:

Tried the set again last night and brakes were fine:g: or at least drivable:)
My pedals must of been having a fit the first time I drove it:sad: I kid you not!  I could not touch my pedal without the tires squealing like a banshee.
 I am an advocate of Race_S so this wasn't a regular thing for me to complain:rolleyes:
 See ya Sunday:woot2:

Will there be a gluten free buffet? I can't eat wheat based products you see.

Quote from: Aquilifer;253005Don't you think it would have been better using the same as the weekly combo? :sideways:

Don't YOU start! :sideways: I anticipate an extraordinary amout of flak over this event. :rolleyes:
I've done some tests on fuel consumption and timings etc. It takes approximately 10 minutes to do eight laps using approximately 7% fuel.  Therefore we'll have 8% to start and 8% refuel at every pit stop. Teamwork is going to be paramount and the spectating driver would be clever to monitor laps/time of his partner in order to let him know when to pit. He'll have enough to concentrate on.
The more I think about this the more excited I become. :woot2: You think the start of a normal hour race is stressy?
 Oh my dicky tickaire! :sad:

Quote from: Toddshooter;253011Tried the set again last night and brakes were fine:g: or at least drivable:)
My pedals must of been having a fit the first time I drove it:sad: I kid you not! I could not touch my pedal without the tires squealing like a banshee.
I am an advocate of Race_S so this wasn't a regular thing for me to complain:rolleyes:
See ya Sunday:woot2:

Y'know I was going to suggest you check your pedals potentiometer, maybe it was sticking. Then I thought 'sod it' :lmfao:

Quote from: o000o;253012Will there be a gluten free buffet? I can't eat wheat based products you see.

I'll bring some muffin and latte. Would that be good?

muffin sounds nice :D

I'm a gonna bring me a big can of WhoopAss:boxing:

Hmm, I just thought about this... you can call me a crybaby but I'd hate to be paired up with someone who uses Right Hand Drive :g: Unless of course I get to go first and so will be using "my" car for the race :D I don't mind so much for the normal team racing nights where each driver does stints of only a few laps, but this'll be something different. And then on a track like SO Chicane where you can't really afford to turn in a bit too early or too late...

Has anyone else thought about this? I don't know how many of us use RHD/LHD..?

Quote from: obsolum;253089Has anyone else thought about this? I don't know how many of us use RHD/LHD..?

You have no way to choose your mate. You can agree that you go first, but if your mate does not want to drive left handed you both have a problem. I suggest you go and practice "righty" the rest of the day....

Its something you need to be able to do, but no need to master it.

Quote from: vobler;253098You have no way to choose your mate. You can agree that you go first, but if your mate does not want to drive left handed you both have a problem. I suggest you go and practice "righty" the rest of the day....

Its something you need to be able to do, but no need to master it.

Oh well (http://www.easysmileys.com/img/shrug2.gif) I just did a 30 lap practise run offline, I'm not gonna bother practising with RHD anymore.

My findings after a 30 lap practise run:

• Race_S is decent enough
• Tyres will last 1 stint (8 to 10 laps) if the skidding and sliding is kept at a minimum. With me, they're bright green after 1 stint so I prefer to change them during the pitstop
• A pitstop with 8% refueling and 4 tyre changes takes 16 seconds. I think this isn't too bad, fried tyres will cost you much more in the long run.
• Hitting the barriers almost always results in suspension damage, which takes pretty long to repair in the pits
• That first left turn on the start/finish straight scares the hell ouf ot me. I am terrified to take it at high speeds. So I don't. I slow down pretty hard for that one, so beware if you're behind me!
• My personal best was 1:19:28, most laps were 1:20 to 1:21
• Be wary of cold tyres (after a pitstop) !
• My laptimes are much better when I just drive relaxed, as smooth as possible without skidding the tyres
• Fuel consumption is 0.9% per lap
• I'm hungry

Quote from: Toddshooter;253075I'm a gonna bring me a big can of WhoopAss:boxing:

Is anyone bringing the w(h)ine? :)

Oliver, I'll organise it so you drive with me, I drive a left hooker! What?! You'd rather I had Seany? :norty:

Tires last ok if not overdriven. I did 16 laps and they were all green until I started testing limits after about 12 laps. A careful team can do the whole race with the same set I would say. Changing all of them takes about 12 seconds and if changed at every pitstop then one minute would be lost.

Quote

• That first left turn on the start/finish straight scares the hell ouf ot me. I am terrified to take it at high speeds. So I don't. I slow down pretty hard for that one, so beware if you're behind me!

That´s a bit tricky, but if you finish braking before turn in and then give it throttle it oversteers nicely licking the barriers on the left and the right.

I also found that 8% is plenty, I can´t imagine anyone running out of fuel.

You guys with all your testing are putting a hell of a lot of pressure on us 'slower partners' :blink:

Quote from: OldBloke;253118You guys with all your testing are putting a hell of a lot of pressure on us 'slower partners' :blink:

Whaddya mean 'us'? The lady doth protest too much methinks. :g:
 

Quote from: romus;253112I also found that 8% is plenty, I can´t imagine anyone running out of fuel.

I toyed with 7%! :norty: Woe betide (am I overdoing the Shakespeare?) anyone who tries to do more than their stint!
Well the first stint anyway.

Quote from: Doorman;253108Oliver, I'll organise it so you drive with me, I drive a left hooker! What?! You'd rather I had Seany? :norty:

I was actually hoping I'd be paired up with you, Ron :D I think we'd make a good team, just tagging along at the back at a relaxed pace while everyone else wrecks their cars by the countless bumps into the barriers... thus losing them tremendous amounts of time in the pits for repair, leading us to an easy victory! :yahoo:

Sounds like a foolproof plan to me :flirty:

Quote from: Doorman;253108Oliver, I'll organise it so you drive with me, I drive a left hooker! What?! You'd rather I had Seany? :norty:

lol, i dunno mate, I still have yet to do a lap :D

What's with all this fuel calculations and 8%, can't we just fill it up at the start? that's what I always do for long races

Quote from: Seany;253143l
What's with all this fuel calculations and 8%, can't we just fill it up at the start? that's what I always do for long races

Because.

just did a 8 lap race with todd and i ran outta fuel on the last lap!! :doh:

any chance we can adjust this to 9%  ??

This was my first ever team race, and it was jolly good fun. :D I think we should do hour events like this more often!

Quote from: Gnomie;253165This was my first ever team race, and it was jolly good fun. :D I think we should do hour events like this more often!

:thumb:
I'd like to do it every sunday.

As far as I'm concerned it was a success. :D Your opinions would be welcome as to whether you'd prefer this hour format with the normal rotation cars/tracks or a one off every so often.

Quote from: romus;253166:thumb:
I'd like to do it every sunday.

Ist Sunday of every even numbered month i.e. 6 a year.:)

Quote from: OldBloke;253169Ist Sunday of every even numbered month i.e. 6 a year.:)

OK, once a month then :D.

Quote from: OldBloke;253169Ist Sunday of every even numbered month i.e. 6 a year.:)

Yep, I like that. A one off combo or the running at the time combo?

if its replacing the normal team racing for that wk then i think it should mirror that combo :)

Btw really enjoyed it :thumbsup2:

Last night was probably the most fun team race I've had so far. Thanks to everyone who joined, and special thanks to Doorz for setting it up and to Deetz for switching to Left Hand Drive and running a good race, earning us 2nd place :yahoo:

We should definitely do it again. I'd also been thinking that maybe we could make it a monthly event, like every last sunday of the month or something. But Oldie's idea would work just as well. But like I said yesterday on Ventrilo, if we do this again we definitely have to think about the communication side of things. In an event like this proper communication with your team mate is vital, and last night it was impossible to get a word in, a lot of times. At one point I felt like yelling "WILL YOU ALL JUST SHUT THE HELL UP FOR 2 MINUTES FOR CHRISSAKE!? :ranting2:"    :)

As for the combo, I'm not sure yet. Maybe it would be easier to just do it on the combo that's running that week?

Quote from: obsolum;253222... At one point I felt like yelling "WILL YOU ALL JUST SHUT THE HELL UP FOR 2 MINUTES FOR CHRISSAKE!? :ranting2:"    :)

You can still type a message :flirty:

Quote from: OldBloke;253224You can still type a message :flirty:

Not while I'm driving on that combo :narnar:

That was incredibly good fun! In some ways a better racing experience than just doing the hour yourself imho. My one regret is that I blew an easy 4th by driving like an twonk on the last lap. My apologies Todd, I promise not to do it again! For myself I would like to see this happen once a month, as it's easier for me to persuade the family to let me set time aside for a long race, so I'd get to race more often. Selfish, I know, but there you go. The comms was a problem, as my partner was so quiet he was hard to hear a lot of the time, but Vent does allow you to mute other users. This could be used to cut out everyone else. This would allow the separate teams to develop strategies both before and during the race, especially if the rules were developed (ie minimum of three stints per driver, no more than 15% fuel load), or would that make it overly complex? Just my twopen'orth.

QuoteThat was incredibly good fun! In some ways a better racing experience than just doing the hour yourself imho. My one regret is that I blew an easy 4th by driving like an twonk on the last lap. My apologies Todd, I promise not to do it again!

No Problem M8:D That was great fun!! Our car owner is very thankful that we brought the car through the race undamaged and therefore he is richer for it.:D

 I say do this at least once a month. XRT only Who would want to race anything else?:yahoo:

It's shaping up for once a month by the looks of it. :) Not sure about XRTs only though. :g: Nah, keep mixing them up. :D

Was a lot of fun, very enjoyable.  Well done to Oldie and me :norty: :D.
About the comms, I didn't find it a problem I love the chaos and banter, hell that's what vent is for :)

looking forward to the next one

It was good serious fun. CrazyR1 had fun burning the right front tire and I enjoyed crashing the car and making it nearly undrivable. Having that much fun earned us a place in the podium. Comms were a bit chaotic, but it would perhaps be a bit too serious to try to make private channels.

Quote from: romus;253288It was good serious fun. CrazyR1 had fun burning the right front tire and I enjoyed crashing the car and making it nearly undrivable. Having that much fun earned us a place in the podium. Comms were a bit chaotic, but it would perhaps be a bit too serious to try to make private channels.

Wot 'e said. :)

I've put it in the calendar. Starting 4th January, first Sunday in the month will be a one hour team race. :)

:clap2: Good stuff!

Marked all the first Sundays in my calendar! Looking forward to Jan 4th with eager anticipation.