Dead Men Walking

Ron surprised... no shocked me last night by deciding rallyx, if it was for mine or some others benefit then thanks mate :D I know you don't get on with rx.


Seriously though, I don't think it fits the format, not for an hour. We did it last year in the XFG and it just about worked, this time in the faster but weak RB4 I feel will be mayhem and frustrating.

I'd like others opinions on should rallyx be an occasional fixture or dropped completely?


The poll doesn't show your name and how you voted.

I say we at least give it a serious try. Leave it on for tonight and maybe tomorrow and then decide if we like it? Also, it'll be interesting to see if this draws as big a crowd as the UF1 did.

So I haven't voted yet. Like I said in my other post earlier, I've never been much of a fan of RallyX, but that doesn't mean this can't be loads of fun with the right people :)

ok :thumbsup2: will give it a try and see if the combo works :)

Since when was this a democracy? Get down you....
Frankly, if I never do rallyX I'd be happy, but it's not to do with just me. Call a track, I'm easy.

I think we should do rallyx occasionally but not for an hour. Great for the team racing but not for an hour please!

OK, here's the skinny. We do rallyX for the team race and change for a road track for the rest of the week. How's that?
I propose Fern Bay...Gold. Yep, that's the way to do it. :)

Good call :D

:thumbsup2:

Good idea. After racing around properly yesterday, I realise it would be a pita for the long race.  Its so hard to avoid taking damage and not fry the clutch, even on a 10 lapper.  Should be fun for Team racing though.:)

I just tried the default rallycross setup and it's awful, so the team race will be a laugh a minute :D

Quote from: o000o;252167I just tried the default rallycross setup and it's awful, so the team race will be a laugh a minute :D

I was thinking about that. Maybe we should have a break from RACE_S for just this once.

I voted yes, because I like rallycross more than BF1, so I'd try it though it's not my favourite. If the gravel would be better modelled (or is it just my feeling that it's bad?) then I'd like to idea a lot. I just feel there's not enough grip or control on the gravel.

I won't be there for the team racing tonight, guys. I've done a number of races, and while it was interesting at first as I had never really tried rallyX before, the novelty wore off pretty quickly and now I just don't enjoy it (http://www.easysmileys.com/img/shrug2.gif)

I think I'll mostly be racing on the Demo server today, I'm in the mood for some XFG on BL1.

I think the RB4's physics are wrong, the car became "odd" when the TBO class was evened out and the RB4 lost a lot of grip, it doesn't respond in corners like a 4wd should, like its sideways mass is more than it's forward mass.

Looking at the hotlap chart, the RB4 is only one second quicker than the FXO/XRT around BL2 and the useless RAC is over two second quicker, that can't be right.

Right! That's it. Let's stop faffing around and get back to normal. Team racing will be on FE3 (tarmac). There doesn't seem to be much point in doing something that we are not all in accordance with. :eyebrow:

I think rallyx has been neglected by the dev team. The reason why it doesn't feel quite like the real thing is that the car doesn't dig itself into the road ( I think). Put your car sideways (or even just lock brake) on a dirt field IRL and see how the tyres dig a groove and the car stops relatively fast. Now in LFS it feels like some gravel on top of asphalt.

Rallyx is lot of fun in LFS for short races (in BL2 top 10 laps). In BL2R the big jump is a risk to your suspension, which brakes too easily. Just compare to WRC cars what kind of jumps they make. The clutch heats too fast too that we could think of 1h race. I have a feeling the auto clutch system lets the clutch slip a bit if tyres are not having full grip. In rallyx,most of the time, you do not have 100% grip so smoke is expected to come quite soon from the direction of the clutch disk.

I was using a different set-up yesterday and taking it much more gently over the big bump and my suspension seemed ok after ten laps.  I wonder is it more to do with setup than anything else? I mean, has anyone ever actually ever made an endurance setup for rally in LFS? most of the setups we are using are only supposed to last about 10 laps :g:

It is a shame that rally has been neglected, remember the fabled "rally pack"?  Id love an all dirt track instead of the mixed surfaces we have now.

If set high suspension and make it softer you survive it better, but usually suffer in lap times.

Aquilifer - You are right. The autoclutch is the cause for overheating.
The only way out is to lift the throttle when taking air, but it so difficult to place the cut and throttle back at the right time each jump of a race that you end up losing too much time.
Not much to do, but apparently your suffering is over for the moment :)

I think that it is a shame that we have not stuck to this.  There have been many times in the past where the car or circuit was not to everyone's taste but we have persevered & often found it to be ok.
Being with dMr has made me more adventurous & I have have had to learn to make the best of difficult combos - the result has been an overall improvement in my driving skills.
Final moan, what is the point of taking a poll if the result is ignored & the minority get their way?  (60% in favour @ time of post)

Quote from: Scratchy;252271I think that it is a shame that we have not stuck to this.  There have been many times in the past where the car or circuit was not to everyone's taste but we have persevered & often found it to be ok.
Being with dMr has made me more adventurous & I have have had to learn to make the best of difficult combos - the result has been an overall improvement in my driving skills.
Final moan, what is the point of taking a poll if the result is ignored & the minority get their way?  (60% in favour @ time of post)

It's a draw. :)

Quote from: Scratchy;252271I think that it is a shame that we have not stuck to this.  There have been many times in the past where the car or circuit was not to everyone's taste but we have persevered & often found it to be ok.
Being with dMr has made me more adventurous & I have have had to learn to make the best of difficult combos - the result has been an overall improvement in my driving skills.
Final moan, what is the point of taking a poll if the result is ignored & the minority get their way?  (60% in favour @ time of post)

Even though I didn't like the RallyX and voted no in this poll as a result, I have to say that I, too, was... well, surprised to see the combo was changed. I won't say I'm sorry, but I do feel bad for the people who actually liked it. I wouldn't have had any problem with it staying on for the whole week. I just wouldn't have done the races this week, no big deal :) I just hope that this won't become a habit; starting a poll whenever there's a combo that's a bit "controversial" so to speak :)

I (personally) think it's for the best if it's dropped from our main LFS server as it always causes a fuss like it has this time. So over the coming months I shall be spending more time evaluating the use of the demo server, including it's use as an alternative/overspill to the main server and it's effect on our racing together. Running occasional rallyx weeks on the demo server with a thursday night event could be a solution for us rx fans, plus it's only one click of the mouse to turn it from demo to an S2 server if other cars are wanted.

If you still think it would have worked then try it yourself, it would have been about 55 laps (Venca does 1:03s) and don't go slower than a 1:10 lap.

Quote from: obsolum;252283I won't say I'm sorry, but I do feel bad for the people who actually liked it. I wouldn't have had any problem with it staying on for the whole week.

There were quite a few of us that don't necessarily check the DMR forum, particularly over changes.

I'd spent quite a while practising in prep for Sunday and even cancelled something to be doing it :(

Hmm bit suprised to see track changed. 1 hour race gonna be hard on a gravel but did put some effort in it. Kinda looked forward to it tbh. Its a fun track and the physics arent that good but no reason to change a track for.

I remember the BF1 on WE, on that track wind was the issue on a certain corner. Several said something about it but it wasnt changed. You better stay consistent instead of changing things to your liking. May not be the case but it certainly looks like it in this case. Several of RSR has put a lot off effort in it and make a fast set and put practise in it. Its a shame. I know its your server and you can do what ever you like but if make a league with severeal outside DMR keep it the way it is. Despite you like the car or track.

Just my 2 cents. :g:

Quote from: o000o;252285If you still think it would have worked then try it yourself, it would have been about 55 laps (Venca does 1:03s) and don't go slower than a 1:10 lap.

Those are the times in the beginning. After 10 laps you burn your clutch and brake you suspension so you have to start pushing the car and rest of the hour goes to pushing the car back to pits. So it would have been in practise 11 laps :narnar:

Quote from: StableX;252292There were quite a few of us that don't necessarily check the DMR forum, particularly over changes.

I'd spent quite a while practising in prep for Sunday and even cancelled something to be doing it :(

Team racing doesn't need practising for, surely? It's done for fun mate and this week was no different :)

Quote from: Niels;252293Hmm bit suprised to see track changed. 1 hour race gonna be hard on a gravel but did put some effort in it. Kinda looked forward to it tbh. Its a fun track and the physics arent that good but no reason to change a track for.

I remember the BF1 on WE, on that track wind was the issue on a certain corner. Several said something about it but it wasnt changed. You better stay consistent instead of changing things to your liking. May not be the case but it certainly looks like it in this case. Several of RSR has put a lot off effort in it and make a fast set and put practise in it. Its a shame. I know its your server and you can do what ever you like but if make a league with severeal outside DMR keep it the way it is. Despite you like the car or track.

Just my 2 cents. :g:

The track was changed because it was not going to provide a race of the usual quality expected of our members and guests. We reserve the right to make changes as we see fit. However, I can assure you that any change we do make is made in good faith for the benefit of the majority.

Quote from: OldBloke;252299Team racing doesn't need practising for, surely? It's done for fun mate and this week was no different :)



The track was changed because it was not going to provide a race of the usual quality expected of our members and guests. We reserve the right to make changes as we see fit. However, I can assure you that any change we do make is made in good faith for the benefit of the majority.

no prob... It's your server.....

Just that to have the "usual quality expected" , some of us have to practise irrespective of fun. I know that I practised a lot, looking forward to some fun. As my time on the rally track with a decent setup is in the low 1.03, and terrible with the default, my pairing with someone would be based on the LFSW PB's would prove that to be competitive I would have to practise.

So I would say that all things considered, based on the system, yes, I had to practise.

Just a pity that's all, especially when the majority of 8 - 6 went for keeping Rally :)

Sorry to disappoint so many people but before you came with your comments it was decided that the best option was to change the combo.(the poll was a draw) People declared there dislike for it and subsequently said they'd be happy to do it. I got fed up with all the faffing about and changed it. It's not the end of the world and no one lost any money. :rolleyes: Onward and upwards. A mere glitch in the system. :flirty:

Quote from: o000o;252285If you still think it would have worked then try it yourself, it would have been about 55 laps (Venca does 1:03s) and don't go slower than a 1:10 lap.

Can't resist a challenge.
Have just done 55 laps with the inferno set with only the cambers swapped.
All but 4 laps were below 1:10 with only one pitstop.  Clutch lasted fine, as did the tyres & suspension. :)

Will send the replay to anyone who PM's their email address.

Quote from: Scratchy;252311Can't resist a challenge.
Have just done 55 laps with the inferno set with only the cambers swapped.
All but 4 laps were below 1:10 with only one pitstop. Clutch lasted fine, as did the tyres & suspension. :)
 
Will send the replay to anyone who PM's their email address.

Stirring git! :lmfao:

Quote from: Scratchy;252311Can't resist a challenge.
Have just done 55 laps with the inferno set with only the cambers swapped.
All but 4 laps were below 1:10 with only one pitstop.  Clutch lasted fine, as did the tyres & suspension. :)

res ipsa loquitur! hehehe¬!

I didn't realise the RAC had rally capability - my god, if you found the RB4 a handful, try the RAC - thats a nightmare.....

ok, I better go to bed before the nightmare comes :D

Quote from: Scratchy;252311All but 4 laps were below 1:10

Fail, try again.

This time do it with 20 odd others jostling for the same corner and you pushing hard to catch or defend. Maybe those RSR guys can setup their own server for a one hour race so anyone upset by the change can go there.

That's a replay I would watch.... in x2.... with the Benny Hill theme tune playing in the background.

Quote from: StableX;252292There were quite a few of us that don't necessarily check the DMR forum, particularly over changes.

I'd spent quite a while practising in prep for Sunday and even cancelled something to be doing it :(

Quote from: Niels;252293Hmm bit suprised to see track changed. 1 hour race gonna be hard on a gravel but did put some effort in it. Kinda looked forward to it tbh. Its a fun track and the physics arent that good but no reason to change a track for.

I remember the BF1 on WE, on that track wind was the issue on a certain corner. Several said something about it but it wasnt changed. You better stay consistent instead of changing things to your liking. May not be the case but it certainly looks like it in this case. Several of RSR has put a lot off effort in it and make a fast set and put practise in it. Its a shame. I know its your server and you can do what ever you like but if make a league with severeal outside DMR keep it the way it is. Despite you like the car or track.

I'm sorry for your disappointment. If it's any consolation I think we can assure you that this kind of thing will never happen again (looks to Doorz and Oldie for confirmation :)). It's not so that we change a combo just because some people don't like it, and I think you know that. It's just that RallyX is a whole different matter.

I hope this hasn't turned you guys away from our server, as we all enjoy having you there :)

I have to admit I'm glad - haven't done much rallyx, and did do some practising on the course and car, but in the end when I wanted some close racing I went to the demo server and had loads of fun with the XFG.

I think, like others have said, that RX is different enough that I don't get the same fun out of it.

BTW, Mille Sabords, sorry I lost it at the end of the straight on the demo server, even sorrier I took you with me, I was going to apologise but you were off the server too quick for me to do so so I'll do it here.

Don't worry about them - there is no much else around worth trying once you get to race on dMr server :)
They will be back with reinforcements as usual.
StableX: You call practice the fun we have in sprint races all week long??? That is a terminology issue not a combo issue then!

Quote from: spoong;252326BTW, Mille Sabords, sorry I lost it at the end of the straight on the demo server, even sorrier I took you with me, I was going to apologise but you were off the server too quick for me to do so so I'll do it here.

No problem, I was attempting a bold pass on the outside that I normally do not try on demo servers...
After you crashed I was alone leading, not sure if I had cut you out (replay said no :)) so no good fights ahead. Then the phone rang...

Good that I didn't take you out, bad that I don't know who I did take out if I did so. :)

Quote from: spoong;252336Good that I didn't take you out, bad that I don't know who I did take out if I did so. :)

Kind of OT but you took 1/2 cars out and stopped the whole field (5-10 seconds gap created for me). Now that's what I would call teamwork :roflmao:

If I've achieved nothing else, at least we have a thread that extends beyond 2 pages :norty:

Quote from: Mille Sabords;252340Kind of OT but you took 1/2 cars out and stopped the whole field (5-10 seconds gap created for me). Now that's what I would call teamwork

My shame knows no bounds - I braked approx 2 ms too late, and bosh, shoved everyone into the sand.

[FX: hangs head in shame]

Quote from: Aquilifer;252232I think rallyx has been neglected by the dev team. The reason why it doesn't feel quite like the real thing is that the car doesn't dig itself into the road ( I think). Put your car sideways (or even just lock brake) on a dirt field IRL and see how the tyres dig a groove and the car stops relatively fast. Now in LFS it feels like some gravel on top of asphalt.

Indeed. Have you heard about the game "Spin Tires"? Here's a video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jW-DQmxsVlY). It's got dynamic terrain. This is a bit on the extreme side, obviously, but some kind of adaptation could be implemented in LFS too! :) Hopefully they'll put more emphasis on the rally bit in S3.

Quote from: Gnomie;252351Indeed. Have you heard about the game "Spin Tires"? Here's a video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jW-DQmxsVlY). It's got dynamic terrain. This is a bit on the extreme side, obviously, but some kind of adaptation could be implemented in LFS too! :) Hopefully they'll put more emphasis on the rally bit in S3.

Nope, not heard before. That looks very promising indeed. I hope it is something more than just driving large trucks offroad.

Is it just me. In the vid it looks bit like the truck has tons of mass at the back, but not much all on front (the front tyres do not sink at all). Maybe it gets bit more fine tuned in time. Anyway it has lots of potential I think.

Quote from: Aquilifer;252353Is it just me. In the vid it looks bit like the truck has tons of mass at the back, but not much all on front (the front tyres do not sink at all).

I assume that's because only the rear wheels are being driven, and thus digging themselves into the dirt. Does that make sense? :g:

Looks good, indeed.

Quote from: obsolum;252354I assume that's because only the rear wheels are being driven, and thus digging themselves into the dirt. Does that make sense? :g:

Nope, not at all. I thought it was driven by the 'force'.

If you look how much the rear wheels dig themselves into the ground you get a feeling it is very soft/loose kind of soil...even muddy. So the front should go deeper too imo, even if they are not driven. Now I got feeling of those big American type pies which have lost of some sort of jam inside a relatively thin shell. Once you brake the shell you sink into to this endless jam.

Here's another video (http://softwarecontests.intel.com/havok/files/265/Video.mpg). Apparently this is a "physics contest" launched by intel. Users can use the Havok physics engine to make stuff, apparently, so I'm not sure this will ever be launched as a game.. anyway, my point was just to show some of the potential of "dynamic terrain". I hope this makes it into LFS at some point! :)

Quote from: obsolum;252325I hope this hasn't turned you guys away from our server, as we all enjoy having you there :)

Not a chance mate. Really like it on the server. Just a principle thing really like the wind for the BF1 ;) We ran the event on our server instead on the rally for this week :)

Quote from: o000o;252324Fail, try again.

This time do it with 20 odd others jostling for the same corner and you pushing hard to catch or defend. Maybe those RSR guys can setup their own server for a one hour race so anyone upset by the change can go there.

That's a replay I would watch.... in x2.... with the Benny Hill theme tune playing in the background.

I can see that the results of my experiment with reality have been excellently countered by your well researched & fair minded argument, I shall say no more.
:)