I got a letter through the other day saying that virgin are going to increase their 2mb broadband service to 10mb for free, happy days :D
Thought i'd share so others who have this service are aware.
Thats surprising and it might be due to the fact that 2gb is highly unreasonable.
I was all for virgin broadband but now prefer Nildram as they are rock solid and provide a genuine unlimited service not like virgin you gave me a 20mb service and them shafted me with a daily traffic shaping model.
Quote from: GhostMjr;269090Thats surprising and it might be due to the fact that 2gb is highly unreasonable.
I was all for virgin broadband but now prefer Nildram as they are rock solid and provide a genuine unlimited service not like virgin you gave me a 20mb service and them shafted me with a daily traffic shaping model.
On what basis is it highly unreasonable? Price? Performance? Value? I'm stuck on a 1Mbps service so 2Mbps seems pretty reasonable to me!
As for traffic shaping......if this really hits you hard then you have to consider how much you are actually downloading. Try working out how much do you typically download in a month. The answer might be interesting. Virgin estimate they throttle (http://allyours.virginmedia.com/html/internet/traffic.html) only the heaviest 5% of downloaders which you were part of if you got throttled. To trigger the throttle on your package you would have needed to download:
Daily Threshold for Throttling on Virgin (20Mbps service):
1000-1500hrs - 6,000MB
1600-2100hrs - 3,000MB
That's one heck of a lot of downloading GM!
Or are you on about contention at particular times of day? Again, the answer their is price based, Nildram and many others do low contention service on which the daily download habits of 'other heavy downloaders' will have less of an impact on you than on their vanilla contention product.
If it were even possible for me to download up to 9,000MB per day I'd be ecstatic.
TL.
I signed up for virgin a couple of years ago when it was ntl.
Since virgin has changed the service in many ways.
Such as the premium phone support line that has now been stopped but mainly how they advertise the service.
On more than one occasion i have seen posters explaining an unlimited fibre broadband service. Surely users on the old NTL model had a breach in their contract as the unlimited package was moved to a traffic shaped model without being informed. Yes some users received letters but i didn't and nearly all their literature is only posted onto their website.
The shaping comes into effect in those hours as you suggested. However it you exceed the limit you are limited to 75% of your service. So if you go for 10mbps service the service is limited to 2mbps for the hours in traffic shaping but also for 4 hours after the event. So if you exceeded between 4 and 9pm your limit would not be released until 1am. BT and other providers have put this to ofcom for false advertising and i agree.
I mean imagine having 50mb and it being 75% decreased. It's both annoying and frustrating. If you pay £37.99 for 20mb broadband you expect a premium service for a premium price. Virgin change the terms so frequently.
the new fibre service that is being rolled out in bournemouth will hopefully not be traffic shaped. Most other european countries aren't shaped at all. If hardly any traffic goes through then surely they are making more profit.
He did say gb not mb, twice, so I read that as being a 2 gigabytes total data download limit per month, rather than connection speed or whatever. 2gb/month *is* what I would consider unreasonable, as even the cheapest service i've seen offer 10gb as their lowest package.
@Carrot
A quick look at the linked Virgin page seems to suggest he meant a 2Mbps service not a 2GB data package. Virgin do not offer a 2GB package as far as I can tell from the website.
@GhostMjr
Yes complaints were lodged with the ASA, one by BT, the other by Sky. The complaint in relation to throttling was not upheld as the terms were clear. (Full adjudication is here (http://www.asa.org.uk/asa/adjudications/Public/TF_ADJ_45720.htm)). The relevant sub-section is as follows:
Quote from: ASA Adjudication2. Complaint - Not upheld
We noted Sky believed ad (a) implied Virgins fibre optic broadband was the solution to the increase in consumer demand for broadband and questioned how this could be the case when Virgin operated a traffic management policy.
We noted ad (a) compared fibre optic broadband to "old fashioned copper wires that other broadband companies use" and therefore considered readers would understand Virgin were comparing their fibre optic broadband to ADSL broadband.
We therefore considered that readers were likely to understand the solution that Virgin referred to were the benefits of fibre optic broadband over ADSL broadband. We understood that the speed of an ADSL connection could be affected by both line length and distance from the telephone exchange and that fibre optic broadband was not affected in those ways.
We also understood that both fibre optic broadband and ADSL broadband were affected by user volume, so in this respect they were similar, but also noted that the small text in ad (a) made this clear.
We considered that readers would therefore understand that Virgins solution related only to the speed at which high bandwidth applications could be downloaded should demand for these types of applications rise and concluded that the ad was not misleading on this point.
On this point, we investigated ad (a) under CAP Code clause 7.1 (Truthfulness) and 19.1 (Fair comparison) but did not find it in breach.
I can understand that you personally might have been disappointed in the service you received GM, but again, consider how much you must have been downloading on a 20Mbps service to trigger the throttling in the first place!
Virgin acquired NTL in 2006, so it's sort of old news about the change in T&C's for you moving from an unlimited to a 'limited' connection, but I agree the T&C's should have told you, but I bet they did and you missed it. But to trigger the throttling you must have been doing some serious downloading or uploading mate, that's my point. For the average person I doubt they would ever see any throttling and be delighted with the speed. The degree of throttling is also not in question, so there's nothing to reply to there, it is clearly laid out on the page I linked.
Traffic shaping is needed for those who abuse the service that is designed for the normal customer. I agree that the advertising should make clear the conditions (and the ASA said they were clear), but it really ought to be obvious that anyone downloading a massive quantity of data each month either ought to be paying more or accepting traffic shaping or restrictions on data volumes. Personally I'd happily pay £100 per month for your current connection, but I can't get it where I live so am stuck on the 1Mbps service.
Heck, I don't even like Virgin and I'm defending them....grr
:2cents:
TL.
As far as I know (I'm with Virgin at the moment) there is no monthly limit, not 2Gb nor 10Gb. What they do do is to decrease your daily speed once you hit a certain level of download in any one given day. I think it will be something like 500Mb for a 2Mb connection.
I would suggest that the 2Gb and 10Gb mentioned is actually 2Mb and 10Mb.
Virgin (ex telewest) have always upgraded their packages for free when the speeds are increased.
I think this is a prelude to a full rollout of the 50Mb service.
I'm currently on the 20Mb service so hope they will upgrade me to the 50Mb now :D
Quote from: TeaLeaf;269113@Carrot
I can understand that you personally might have been disappointed in the service you received GM, but again, consider how much you must have been downloading on a 20Mbps service to trigger the throttling in the first place!
Traffic shaping is needed for those who abuse the service that is designed for the normal customer. I agree that the advertising should make clear the conditions (and the ASA said they were clear), but it really ought to be obvious that anyone downloading a massive quantity of data each month either ought to be paying more or accepting traffic shaping or restrictions on data volumes. Personally I'd happily pay £100 per month for your current connection, but I can't get it where I live so am stuck on the 1Mbps service.
Heck, I don't even like Virgin and I'm defending them....grr
:2cents:
TL.
An unlimited 20Mbps connection is not a connection anyone has without downloading. That's why I got it. I could have easily got free broadband from Orange or cheap broadband from a range of sources. The limits they have are pathetic.
In 5 hours on regular broadband it would not be a struggle to download 3GB. So what advantage is there having a service that cuts down your connection to ADSL speeds for downloading more. I got moved over with the Virgin taken over too and didn't have a formal letter asking me to accept terms and conditions or anything. I had some adversising leaflets asking me to upgrade to the service I already had when had the small print on them about the throttling as part of the advert if that counts?.
Basically if they say unlimited they should have an unlimited service. Anyone who downloads too much for them should be kicked off the service. If they don't want to give you the proper service they shouldn't take your money.
There are genuinely unlimited ADSL services with fast upload etc competatively priced. I'm sticking with the service till I move out because I'd have to breach a 12 month contract if I switch, but anyone with them who aren't stuck should look at Nildram and alike to see if they'd be better off.
Yep ment Mb not Gb, my bad.
One thing worth noting, I'm on the 20mb Virgin package.....
go find someone, anyone, who can actually give you a 20mb a second upload connection. The best I ever managed to get was an early morning (late night in the USA) 17.5 mb a second download from Microsoft. I was downloading their high definition movie samples that came in a 170 to 200mb a clip. Each one was taking a few seconds and it was pretty impressive. However the average speed I get from sites that I'm downloading from is closer to eight or nine meg. On bitTorrent I have somethimes got fifteen or sixteen meg a second if the are are lots and lots of seeds.
So I'm wondering what the hell I am going to do with 50 meg if there is already no one who can provide me with a 20 meg connection?
QuoteDaily Threshold for Throttling on Virgin (20Mbps service):
1000-1500hrs - 6,000MB
1600-2100hrs - 3,000MB
So, uncapped between 2100 and 1000 the next day, eh? Schedule your downloads for those times.
Rocket science, it ain't.
(http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e184/ochainn/dog_ransom.jpg)
Quote from: smilodon;269180One thing worth noting, I'm on the 20mb Virgin package.....
go find someone, anyone, who can actually give you a 20mb a second upload connection. The best I ever managed to get was an early morning (late night in the USA) 17.5 mb a second download from Microsoft. I was downloading their high definition movie samples that came in a 170 to 200mb a clip. Each one was taking a few seconds and it was pretty impressive. However the average speed I get from sites that I'm downloading from is closer to eight or nine meg. On bitTorrent I have somethimes got fifteen or sixteen meg a second if the are are lots and lots of seeds.
So I'm wondering what the hell I am going to do with 50 meg if there is already no one who can provide me with a 20 meg connection?
Torrents suck mate, get yourself a newgroup set up and i'd be suprised if you weren't seeing 20mb speeds.
Quote from: smilodon;269180One thing worth noting, I'm on the 20mb Virgin package.....
go find someone, anyone, who can actually give you a 20mb a second upload connection. The best I ever managed to get was an early morning (late night in the USA) 17.5 mb a second download from Microsoft. I was downloading their high definition movie samples that came in a 170 to 200mb a clip. Each one was taking a few seconds and it was pretty impressive. However the average speed I get from sites that I'm downloading from is closer to eight or nine meg. On bitTorrent I have somethimes got fifteen or sixteen meg a second if the are are lots and lots of seeds.
So I'm wondering what the hell I am going to do with 50 meg if there is already no one who can provide me with a 20 meg connection?
The problem with downloading from sites that only give say 200Kbs or less is not Virgin but the site (or the site's hoster) limitation. So 50Mb will only be good in those circumstances when the website itself upgrades.
50Mb would be excellent if there are a few of you in the house I would think or as King says downloading from Newsgroups I nearly always get 16Mb+.
Quote from: King85;269184Torrents suck mate, get yourself a newgroup set up and i'd be suprised if you weren't seeing 20mb speeds.
See above
I won't be moving my parents connection to 50mb as currently its unlimited with no speed caps but the price is too much almost £50. They will more than likely as more areas go 50mb move the price down and 50mb will be their top package. Hopefully with no throttling. We will see :D.
I see your point TL and thanks for posting up the information :)
Quote from: smilodon;269180So I'm wondering what the hell I am going to do with 50 meg if there is already no one who can provide me with a 20 meg connection?
With Steam I've had a stable hour stretch of over 1.6Mb/s. When downloading modern games (for instance GTA IV) most are over 3GB in downloadable content. So downloading a game during the day could put you inside the throttling bracket. Limiting the connection to around 500kb/s, meaning your game takes 3x longer to download.
You've not broken any rules of Steam, or any internet laws etc, but you're seen to be abusing the "Unlimited" service.
I'm not sure if I've been throttled for doing it. It's something it's hard to test without doing a speed check as download speeds are so variable. I just object that I got moved to it without a choice, and it can target gamers (who I assume are some of the main people who use the service) for buying games legally.
That said in my house I have housemates who download (screwing up my connection) so if I was throttled I wouldn't claim I wasn't pushing my luck a bit.