QuoteAny dungeons that previously dropped Emblems of Heroism or Valor, such as Naxxramas or Heroic Halls of Stone, will now drop Emblems of Conquest instead. Emblems of Conquest can still be converted to Valor or Heroism.
Discuss: Good or bad?
I think its annoying for us raiders that lesser players will be walking around in gear we've spent numerous hours in ulduar farming for, but on the plus side - im a L80 pvper on Frostmane, so i cant get into raids to get the gear so its kinda hmm =/
Oh like tier 6 all over again lol. I got the shoulders from Mother shahraz, and look somebody else can get same item lvl gear from grinding Karazhan lol.
Ok not quite that drastic this time if it's just one or two pieces, but even so cheapens the look of the characters lol
Quote from: Jim;279742Discuss: Good or bad?
I think its annoying for us raiders that lesser players will be walking around in gear we've spent numerous hours in ulduar farming for, but on the plus side - im a L80 pvper on Frostmane, so i cant get into raids to get the gear so its kinda hmm =/
:taz::ranting2::taz::taz::ranting2::ranting2::ranting2::ranting2::taz::taz::taz::taz::taz::ranting2::ranting2::ranting2::ranting2:
get my point?
Been out of WoW for over 2 years but I lolled at "lesser players" xD
No offense meant but I just had to giggle :P
Quote from: Gaara;279757Been out of WoW for over 2 years but I lolled at "lesser players" xD
No offense meant but I just had to giggle :P
none taken, i couldnt think of the term to use instead of noobs
Tbh I think it's a good thing. Consider:
You have a solid 25 man raiding team. You have done Naxx to death and moved on to Ulduar. Then you finish that and move on to the new 3.2 raid. One of your raid team drops out due to real life stuff. There are others in guild who you know can be good and will be online in time and such, but they've not raidied with you very much at all. As such they're just in heroic gear and a smattering of buyable Naxx/Ulduar items (maybe 1 or 2 items, tops). Alternatively somone has just levelled a new alt and wants to change their main character, but said alt is not geared up yet.
Now, would you rather a) gimp your progression for a good few weeks going back and doing the older instances to get the newbie geared up to the level the rest of you are at, b) go out and poach a new and unknown person from another guild who is already in a similar level of gear, or c) Be able to bring the guildmate straight in and able to make a good contribution because they're already not that far behind gearwise.
As I see it, having the top level of gear is an indication that you're good at raiding. But you don't want the gap between top end gear and the stuf you can get as a new 80 to get too wide. They do the same with PvP. When a new arena season comes out and better gear is released all the previous seasons get shuffled down the list, so you can now get better gear for the same effort. Still want to stand out among your peers? Fine, go and get yourself the newest arena/raid stuff ASAP, instead of sitting there twiddling your thumbs in the previous top-end stuff.
I must admit I am a little biased in this, but hear me out:
I don't have much time to raid. I can't commit to a regular weekly schedule becuase of real life happenings, and the rest of my guild is largely the same. We only actually have 10 people with level 80s in guild, all of whom know each other in real life. As such, we only get the chance to raid (if we're lucky) once a week, 2 or 3 weeks out of every 4. We recently made a big push to clear Naxx, having learnt each wing in turn week by week (I love the layout of Naxx for being able to do that instead of having to push through linearly). Then we finally cleared Naxx on one of the only weeks we've ever managed to get all 10 people together for 2 nights of the week. Just this week, we went to Naxx again, and managed to clear the whole thing in 1 night in 4 hours. This probably sounds like weak sauce to you, but to us it's a really big thing.
Now we're poking Maly before going to Ulduar. We got him to 5% last night, but hit the enrage timer with not enough debuff stacks on him to just kite until he died.
Now there are several other guilds on the same server that I have friends on who are already half way through Ulduar, but who never managed to down Maly (and yes they did try, and have gone back again recently). Hell, some of them didn't even get past the second phase. Do I consider myself to be a better player than the people in those guilds? Hell yes! So what have they got that I have't, that means they're burning through Ulduar? Time. They have more free time to raid that I do. Now that is the name and nature of the game, so i've never complained about other people who I don't consider to be as good as me getting further because they have more time to wipe and practice, but from my perspective this change is a major plus. We don't want to miss out or get behind on content, and by being able to buy higher level gear when doing the heroics and lower level dungeons we don't plan to bypass Ulduar, but we do hope to be able to burn through it faster, so we can then get on to the new stuff. None of us would consider our achievement at clearing Ulduar to be as good as the achievement of those that did it pre-patch, and I guess Blizz agrees, hence why they did stuff like removed the special mounts for Naxx achievements when Ulduar came out, to prevent people overgearing through them. If we're not as good as I think, then when we get to whatever the current newest raid is better guilds will be progressing and we'll just be banging our heads against the wall, and they will have the new raid gear to show that.
*takes a breath*
Wall of text crits you for 40'000 damage.
To be honest i think it's a bad thing. I really don't see why they have to make the same mistake again. Different instances give different rewards, and the very reason this happens, is becouse they need different level of commitment and team work to succeed. They made the very same mistake in TBC, with magister terrace and zul'aman. With those instances people can easily clear ssc and tk with a clear MJ/BT equivalent gear. I just can't understand why people need to get their hand on that kind of loot, if they don't deserve it. If you already know you don't have time to raid or you don't even like to raid at an high level, why should be able to get that kind of gear? So you can clear naxx or the daily heroic faster? As happened in TBC, where i had the worst experiences with pugs, and people who think they're grat player becouse of their shiny welfare epics, in WotLK this will lead to an even greater fail, becouse here the possible scenarios are 2:
- People will get free epics and, as in TBC, they believe they can play their class, becouse for them the skill is not needed. Those people will make "serious" players lose time and money in wipes and repair bills, however once they will populate enough ignore lists and the voice will begin to spread, they will more likely be forced to change character name, realm, or both.
- Since everyone can get the same level of gear, the instances will be insanely harder. This will make the game very interesting, putting skills on top of everything, and leaving the player who just farmed heroics to get their gear to be humiliated in every raid and verbally abused by the less patient (and less polite) players, finally figuring out that their gear is useless without the experience you gain fighting step by step your way through the normal path (that in this case is heroics-->OS-->naxx-->mal-->uld-->whatever comes in 3.2, and not heroics-->3.2 instances).
In addition, if this patch will go live, there will be a lot of people who will ask for even more achievement than now, for example they will ask the mass clearing of all the raids in WotLK just to join a filthy heroic run (just the other day i saw one person asking: " LFM Naxx 25 whisp me Heroic: The Fall of Naxxramas and Epic achievement with stats").
If that's what you're craving for, rejoice, becouse you'll have your best dream come true with the next patch.
I think Carrot makes a good point in saying that you don't want the gap between fresh lvl 80s and the raiders to get too big. After all someone sporting last season's wear stands out easily as running behind on the 'pro's' just as much as someone wearing something from the season before that. But I think the bridge they built now is too big. Sure some guilds have cleared Ulduar already, but alot of us are still right in the middle of trying very hard to do so. Sure the game is not about the loot but about fun, and sure you can't derive someone's skill from his gear, but I still feel kinda backstabbed when the loot I'm trying my very best for every raid night is taken from under my nose and made available for players who don't (be it because they can't due to lack of time, or because they can't because they're not 'skilled enough') put in that same ammount of effort.
I can to some extent agree with the jump to a higher tier of badges (I can testify to it being quite hard to go anywhere when you don't have 3000 Spellpower or an achievement to show your shitty PuG leader before he'll take you in), but it should have been valor ones instead of conquest right away, since Ulduar is far from being on farm for the majority of the guilds atm.
In short, I reckon after raiding guilds have had their share of the top end gear and moved to a higher top, sure 'the rest' can have that stuff. It's no longer meaningful to the raiders, but always make sure that there's at least 1 step between the two. People who invest time should be rewarded likewise imo.
EDIT: Although I miss the days when "the normal people" would come up to me and say "Wow, you have Dragonstalker! That's awesome man!" ^^
tbh i think it sux big big big donkey testicles..
the badges are already there for diffrent levels, why change that to an alsweeping method?
it works how it is and yes it will be nice to get more badges but i think it is deva;uing them so much, you can already get badges for good gear and the better badges for the better gear but WHY CHANGE IT?
could someone explain to Newbie-nuts what the difference between the badges is. And what these Tier 1,2,3 and 4 things are? :rolleyes:
Once you hit the magic lvl 80, to improve your gear the main thing you will be doing is either gathering PvP/Arena weaponry through Battlegrounds and Arena fights, or gathering PvE oriented gear through, well...PvE. At first you get this gear through lvl 80 instances, and then after a while you will want to focus on doing those instances in the heroic mode, which means that mobs hit harder and have more health, but the rewards are greater, and each boss drops a badge. This PvE gathering of gear is what the whole debate is about.
This badge system was implemented for the first time in The Burning Crusade, the 1st expansion to the game. You earned Badges of Justice through killing heroic dungeon bosses, some daily quests, and killing raid bosses. The badges could be turned in for gear. In TBC there was just 1 badge for the entire game, and in the end you needed huge numbers of badges for the better gear. This had the disadvantage that anyone, even those who did not raid at all, could theoretically get their hands on gear that was of equal quality as gear earned in high-end raid instances, and this was stingy for raiders because they felt the non-raiding people were getting better loot than they deserved. This badge loot was dubbed "Welfare Epix" by many, because it was supposedly so easy to get.
In WotLK Blizzard stepped away from this idea by implementing several different lvls of badges. Emblems of Heroism for daily dungeon quests and from normal heroic instances, as well as the 10-man versions of Naxxramas, Sartharion and Eye of Eternity raid dungeons. Emblems of Valor for the 25-man versions of those 3 dungeons. This meant that epic gear was available for people who did heroic instances and 10-man raids, and even better loot was available for those who invested time into big 25-man raids. With the coming of Ulduar in patch 3.1, a new emblem was added, the Emblem of Conquest, which is available from 25-man Ulduar and likewise gives access to yet again better loot.
This upcoming change however will elevate all badges acquired up to and including Ulduar 25 to Emblems of Conquest. It means that like in TBC, once again everyone has access to this high quality loot. Some would say it's not so bad this time around because the loot available for the badges is good, but only for limited slots and still inferior to the really high up Ulduar25 loot. However most people think that it'll once again bring back the idea of welfare epix in the World of Warcraft.
As for Tier 1, 2 etc., this indicates the high-end epic armor sets available for each class throughout the game. Back in vanilla WoW there was Tier 1, 2 and 3 from Molten Core, Blackwing Lair and Old Naxxramas respectively, TBC saw the introduction of Tier 4, 5 and 6 spread across various raid instances, and now in WotLK we have Tier 7 (from Naxxramas and Sartharion), 8 (from Ulduar) and upcoming in 3.2 Tier 9 (from the Argent Colliseum) item sets. Of Tier 7 and 8 there are two versions, one from the 10-man instances, and one from 25-man instances, the latter being referred to as Tier 7.5 and 8.5. You can see all Tier armor on the blizzard homepage here (http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/items/armorsets/). :)