Another thread branching off from the debate thread and Smilodon's.
I think that we need to evaluate this a bit more logically and even delve a bit more in to the psychology of gaming. I reckon we should brainstorm some answers to some obvious (yet overlooked) questions. Feel free to create more questions but try to keep them objective.
These are a couple of questions I have come up with so far with what I believe are relevant answers. Some of the answers may be blunt, however I am simply being honest. Feel free to debate these answers.
What does the typical average gamer (not affiliated with a clan/community) want from a server?
-It must be free
-Not passworded
-The more populated the better (signifies the "health" of the server)
-Friendly community
-Reasonable admins (firm but not power crazy)
-Players of a similar skill level
-Regulars (again signifies the "health" of the server)
-Voice comms? (Not sure here, some people find it irritating, some find it useful)
-No restrictions (The player doesn't like to be forced to do something, they want to play in their own style)
-Low Ping
-Fast/Easy to join (Usually this involves no downloads whatsoever, but a few are acceptable)
-Popular maps (default for people who dislike downloading?)
What does the typical average gamer (affiliated with a clan/community) want from their server?
-Preferably would be free
-The more populated the better (signifies the "health" of the server)
-Friendly community
-Reasonable admins (firm but not power crazy)
-Players of a workable skill level
-Regulars (again signifies the "health" of the server)
-Voice comms help to strengthen the community/clan
-Reasonable restrictions (The player is willing to comply with server rules, however if they interfere with his playstyle he may become irritated/unruly)
-Low Ping
-Fast/Easy to join (Usually this involves no downloads whatsoever, but a few are acceptable)
-A different rotation of maps when they become bored of the current one.
-Benefits from being within the community
I'm sure there are plenty more points for each so if anyone comes up with any I'll be sure to add them to the questions.
To the other people who create questions I recommend you also keep it up-to-date with suggestions so that we can access the points directly (maybe a separate debate thread would be better so that we can keep this one simply for the questions and answers)
Interesting topic to create lee.
My only real comments are about ping.
I would be more than happy to welcome gamers with 150ms pings providing they work to our ethos.
We have a European community but few if any at all (i might be wrong) American/ or far reaching users.
Do we want Americans and the like to join and if so how could we go about doing this?
I don't think we'd worry GM, we're not trying to filter people out, just to attract them wherever they are.
The low ping aspect was regarding the server not the player. That's what people hope for in a server. So obviously we will be getting mainly european players. I'm sure we will (and do) get players from further afield, but it is less likely.
Hi Lee,
Good insight. Can I add one item to your section on:
What does the typical average gamer (affiliated with a clan/community) want from their server?
Reserved Slots for Clan / (supporting) members
This is a double edged sword I admit. It can tick people off if they get booted; It can make the clan folk happy as they are likely to get a slot when they want to play (after all it is our servers), but also; It can encourage the uptake of supporting (read: paying) members.
So.. Now with all of this good information where do we go?
So not to confuse the good work by Lee. I'd like to ask:
Would we as a community consider merging a smaller (read: acquire) clan of players?
Clearly it's worked successfully with the WOW end of our community. Should we consider hunting for a smaller CSS or COD4 based group that has a similar ethos and try and have them join us?
The benefits could be an instant boost to the community base and potentially coffers...
(Admin feel free to move to a separate topic if required)
Quote from: Ninja_Freak;284043Hi Lee,
Good insight. Can I add one item to your section on:
What does the typical average gamer (affiliated with a clan/community) want from their server?
Reserved Slots for Clan / (supporting) members
This is a double edged sword I admit. It can tick people off if they get booted; It can make the clan folk happy as they are likely to get a slot when they want to play (after all it is our servers), but also; It can encourage the uptake of supporting (read: paying) members.
So.. Now with all of this good information where do we go?
If we kicked a non dMW player off to make room for a tagged player, would only upset the guy who got kicked. He may have been a great guy real dMw prospect and then he may never return.
Pretty complete list Lee and interesting topic
2 things I'd like to add:
-fast download for maps enabled
-NO downloading of mp3's and other stupid soundfiles
Quote from: Gaara;284052Pretty complete list Lee and interesting topic
2 things I'd like to add:
-fast download for maps enabled
-NO downloading of mp3's and other stupid soundfiles
Fast DL is already on,,
The download is somewhere around 10 secs on a std line, often more populated servers has a lot more then us
Quote from: kregoron;284059Fast DL is already on,,
The download is somewhere around 10 secs on a std line, often more populated servers has a lot more then us
I know it's on, just stating some things I reckon new players might be looking for in a community or server.
Thanks for the feedback nonetheless though!
Quote from: Gaara;284052Pretty complete list Lee and interesting topic
2 things I'd like to add:
-fast download for maps enabled
-NO downloading of mp3's and other stupid soundfiles
Covered this in the point "Fast/Easy to join", it's definitely an important thing.
Kreg, Gaara is right, we're just listing things which a player expects from a server and hope through these suggestions we can pick the relevant ones and adopt changes.
Quote from: Gaara;284062I know it's on, just stating some things I reckon new players might be looking for in a community or server.
Thanks for the feedback nonetheless though!
About the fast DL, most chaps using the steam server list to find random servers dont go for custom maps, hence the reason the public css has std maps.. :)
I didnt say he was wrong, i just tried to point it was actually covered on our servers (atleast the cs based ones ;) )
Im just tired i guess
Quote from: Armitage;284050If we kicked a non dMW player off to make room for a tagged player, would only upset the guy who got kicked. He may have been a great guy real dMw prospect and then he may never return.
Or he might think if I join - I too will have a reserved slot - I know that was a pull for me when I joined a clan.
Quote from: Dewey;284068Or he might think if I join - I too will have a reserved slot - I know that was a pull for me when I joined a clan.
but then again, he may think he might be kicked as a member to make way for a senior member....or an admin :D
Okay so it's third guessing, but still relevant in a way :)
It's kicking someone for a non valid reason, I myself actually purposely avoid going on those type of servers
I don't like reserved slots. I tend not to go back to a server I've been kicked from, and often the reserved slot lets you join and then throws you off again if they're 18/20 people etc.
I agree that kicking a player for a dmwer is not fair. What if the person could be an asset to the community and we just kick him for another tagged member? I gladly wait for a slot if the servers full :)
We want more people to join, lets not give them the boot when they join just for a slot :)
We don't have a reserved slot policy just as we don't have a kick-to-make-way-for-regulars policy.
It's just not our way.
This has been discussed before about MH but it applies across the board.
http://www.deadmen.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=26573
I am glad to hear that we dont reserve spots, I think it is wrong IMHO. But as we have more than 2 servers for most games it shouldn't be a problem.
For example if i cant get on the public I try and join the private and hope others do the same.
Quote from: BrotherTobious;284158I am glad to hear that we dont reserve spots, I think it is wrong IMHO. But as we have more than 2 servers for most games it shouldn't be a problem.
For example if i cant get on the public I try and join the private and hope others do the same.
Problem with that on CS:S is most of the people playing on the popular nights are regulars and the same number move over to meathook. We don't have enough regulars to always fill 2 servers, but more than enough for one. Which I guess is why L4D is often popular of the same nights. People go to join see it's full and it starts to fill L4D too.
Dual Game nights might be an idea. CS:S with CoD 4 on the same night but different times. Then when people move hopefully the server keeps some people who don't have both, and public players. Both fill up, giving more people a shot.
It could go CS:S + L4D Friday, CoD 4 + CS:S Monday, CoD 4 + L4D Sunday. So it gives people two chances to play their favourite games.
It's just an idea. I can see problems with it already, but twice as many active servers even if it's for half the time can't be too bad.
Quote from: BrotherTobious;284158I am glad to hear that we dont reserve spots, I think it is wrong IMHO. But as we have more than 2 servers for most games it shouldn't be a problem [..]
I agree completely with Toby. Reserved spots is not the way to go. If servers are full, we just need to have room enough to start an extra game/server.
Quote from: T-Bag;284162Dual Game nights might be an idea. CS:S with CoD 4 on the same night but different times. Then when people move hopefully the server keeps some people who don't have both, and public players. Both fill up, giving more people a shot.
It could go CS:S + L4D Friday, CoD 4 + CS:S Monday, CoD 4 + L4D Sunday. So it gives people two chances to play their favourite games.
It's just an idea. I can see problems with it already, but twice as many active servers even if it's for half the time can't be too bad.
Interesting concept, could be good if they were all done on public servers, as some may continue to play one game whilst a few stagger across to another, the transition will cause 2 half servers (or thereabouts) and might get pubbies in (I guess a half full server is more tempting to join than a near full or near empty server?) But I think this kinda of thing already happens in a non official capacity :g:
An interesting idea raised by Ninja earlier in the thread. That about bringing in a smaller clan to join us.
One positive about this would be to weed out complacency (in game and out I guess).
Another positive (and the main one I guess) is that an influx of new players would bring some excitement back into our community and our gaming.
Growth has positive effects
I like the idea of bringing in another clan but I also have many worries.
We know the *we* cannot field teams under any of our banners. Section Heads have tried and tried again and each time there is not enough motivation or desire amongst the players. Hell, we can't even muster enthusiasm to run a CoD ladder in-house.
When we played the odd ED CoD match we found we were just totally outplayed. Not necessarily due to skill levels but because we don't play the same way. We don't bunny-hop, spawn kill etc etc and we're never going to be competitive because of it. Hell it's so ingrained in our gameplay ethos that even when we *can* and *need* to do it to maintain a competitive edge, we don't.
It all depends on the game your planning to play competitively I think Pen, there was never really a problem with our playing style when we played CS matches, as the way dMw play complements match play (in my opinion) the main down fall was lack of a stable team & lack of practice within that team - often we'd get into a match & work out what we where going to do as we did it.
I think L4D & CS:S would work well for us, but unfortunately if you want a good match play squad you can't really just do the dMw thing & let whoever wants to play be in matches.
As for getting in new players, even as an current member of dMw I get put of joining servers when they have custom maps running, I know how we play & to join a game & have no idea what's going on just wouldn't go well, & as was mentioned in a thread in the L4D forum, we can get a little touchy when people don't know what there doing. I don't know if anyone else feels the same or if it's just me, but there ya go.
No, good points there Riz - to Custom or not, that is a valid one :)
What the heck are we talking about?:eyebrow:
Whether we use custom maps or not
Regarding custom maps, I believe CSS is a good example of what to do - place custom maps on a private server and dedicate a special night to the playing of these maps, the other server has standard maps for 7 days of the week.
Quote from: Lee;285125Regarding custom maps, I believe CSS is a good example of what to do - place custom maps on a private server and dedicate a special night to the playing of these maps, the other server has standard maps for 7 days of the week.
It's the fact that the whole sequence appears to be custom maps that puts me off, from playing on L4D & having only a hand full of maps to play on & still enjoying it, I can happily say it's not the game that brings me onto dMw servers its you guys. I'm all for custom maps, but just the odd one in the sequence to spice the night up might be better & encourage new peeps to come & play.
We are being careful with L4D, lessons learnt from previous custom cascades.
That said it's worth bearing in mind that we have added one new map....which is in affect 5 new maps. So in total we have around 25 maps on the rotation, so it is in essence more varied than any other game.
We may add one more, but it would need to be good and there's nothing there at the moment that I've seen that's even close.
1 maybe 2 custom maps on a given night should be no bad thing. Even better if you can get the reviews around the external sites (a la Whitey and Sadako). Then you are advertising that you've made a great map and it suits mature play.....winner all round.
Not sure if that works with CoD..