At long last we've found someone stupid enough to take on the project of redefining and redesigning the web site. Yes we have a web site too :)
With that in mind and before said stupid person begins the task, I'm looking for some input as to what we think the community wants and needs from the web site. Obviously most of the activity happens here in the forums. However most new visitors come to the dMw index page not this forum. So I think we do need some sort of web presence. So I'm keen to get as many ideas and thoughts about what we could do with the site, what purpose it might serve and how we can use it to grow the community?
My initial idea, and this is just to get the ball rolling, is that there is a lot of factual information about the community that currently sits within various forum posts that might better be located on the web site. The forums are where we communicate and share information but the web site might be the place where we keep our static information? At the moment some of the web site links on the left lead to static web pages, some to forum posts and some to information not even hosted within dMw at all. A bit of a mix! Also some information is out of date and needs updating. Like wise so information will change fairly regularly and need some folks to keep it up to date. So I'm thinking that a redesign that retains the basic idea of what we have at the moment would be good i.e a web site and forum that appear as a single entity with navigation down one (the left) side.
However we could also implement a Content Management System idea, with any number of authors able to add and update information on any range of topics. Game reviews, movie reviews, blogs you name it. We could create an improved photo gallery, allow hosted mini web sites. It's up to you :D
So please feel free to chip in with any thoughts etc.
Depending on what we ultimately decide to do I may well be on the hunt for web guru's, coders and writers to make the ideas reality.
Cheers
some other clans that i am a member of have posted in game videos on their main index pages deplicting the games they play, so on ours maybe a cod4, l4d, cs:s, lfs and .......wow:blink:. let then see the dMw way of playing and how "cough" mature we are (edited of course) it may influence them more into joining
Imho I think this forum does pretty much everything needed so the actual site needs to really wow the surfer.
I think a very stylish and Hi-res flash site (now broadband is so fast) which details all the server information i.e locations, Players online etc.
Maybe a short testimonal from each of the games admins saying a little about what we do and what we are looking for in each game.
I really think WOW! should be the reaction we are looking for.
can we send a live feed from CSS?
I just like to disagree with Zootoxin on the flash website idea.
Full flash websites are horribly slow, hard to navigate, hard to update, and are indexed very poorly by search engines.
A.k.a. not user friendly.
Naturally Flash can be used to enhance some parts of the site but full Flash is a major no no.
What I would like to see:
W3C valid code
Good search engine indexation (being the SEO boy I am)
A modern design
Possibly a blog
A forum skin (running into blue forums a little to often on the net)
Ermm thats basically a few things I can think of now.
If you guys need front-end development or design help let me know, as I am a front-end webdeveloper myself :)
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I like the idea of videos because people just love to click and watch them! :D We could host the videos on youtube (why waste developer time coding for flash and stuff when we have youtube and the likes of Screencast and so on?)
One point to consider on the video side of things is that some effort will be required from the video makers and players if you are going show in game footage of how Pr0 we are :rolleyes:
Another couple of ideas on the video side of things would be to have:
1) footage from LANS and,
2) maybe an interview or two of players/admins? I know this would require a bit of work but if you wanted to do this, then you could set some time up at the LAN to do the 'interview' - make it short and sweet like 2 minutes and questions like "How did you come across dMw?" and "What made you stay this long?" etc
As for the look and feel, I would definitely like to see some more modern and funky, change the colour scheme (of both the front page(s) and the forums so that there is some consistency from one to the other) to a nice modern (but stylish) look using perhaps two colours working together and a third to compliment etc etc.
I like the idea of Wiki's, I nearly had to set one up for a company down here in Plymouth (not happened yet), though if the sticky content is away from the main forum content then it would defeat the purpose of having stickies wouldn't it?
Anyway tis all for now! :woot2:
Quote from: Gaara;292826I just like to disagree with Zootoxin on the flash website idea.
Full flash websites are horribly slow, hard to navigate, hard to update, and are indexed very poorly by search engines.
A.k.a. not user friendly.
Naturally Flash can be used to enhance some parts of the site but full Flash is a major no no.
What I would like to see:
W3C valid code
Good search engine indexation (being the SEO boy I am)
A modern design
Possibly a blog
A forum skin (running into blue forums a little to often on the net)
Ermm thats basically a few things I can think of now.
If you guys need front-end development or design help let me know, as I am a front-end webdeveloper myself :)
There are alot of flash sites that work fine its all about how its setup, but anyway where it be flash or xhtml or a combination of both it needs to be
WOW!!!
Totally agree on the W3C point.
And boy does the forum need a face lift :)
The stickies Idea is also a good one :)
Great idea guys!
Building the site in a CMS would be a good idea so your not reliant on just one of two people to update - and if they leave or get bored then you have others who can continue. With a CMS and a large number of authors your likely to keep the content and the site regularly updated which will encourage people to come back. Currently the site looks dead as content very rarely changes on it - this will put some pontential users off.
W3C - agreed the webpages produced by a decent CMS should be able to output to xhtml 1.0 strict and be well formed -same goes for the CSS. Unfortunately will need a seperate CSS for IE6 *the bane of web designers everywhere!* - still approximately 10% of users on my sites using it.
Accessibility - a decent CMS should be able to offer more in the way of accessibility features - and allow us to meet WAI priority 1 or 2 - it may be that some of our current members who have visual or physical impairments would benefit from a more accessible website.
I'd like to see a FAQ that can easily be added too as new players often ask the same questions time and time again? ie what comms do we use in certain games, how do you join? what are membership options? etc.
I'd like to dMw making use of RSS feeds both reading and creating our own that could be used throughout the site and spread dMw news on other sites. Perhaps some of these may simply be threads from the forum that populate some areas of the website - the forum is the heart of the dMw community so we should tap into it where possible.
Podcasts - would be an excellent idea - but they do involve a lot of work and planning and decent equipment to do a good job - though you could start of with just one - perhaps a welcome podcast that tells people about our community, how its run, membership benefits, games we play currently and how new games are chosen, our ethos and USP (unique selling points like the two lans we run each year (I'm guessing not many communities/clans do this!).
Video - like podcasts involve a lot of work and would need someone who creates this type of media regularly to do a good job - it could be used to showcase the various games we play as someone else already suggested - introduced by the admins who run those games, soundbites from those who regularly play those games - giving people a flavour of the mature attitude to gaming we enjoy here and the diversity - Racing, shooting, WOW etc.
To ensure maximum exposure of the new site and dMw the RSS feeds/podcasts and videos should ideally be placed in the obvious places, youtube, iTunes, wikis, gaming websites etc.
Facebook - should link to the website and could also showcase the above new media.
We could identify where new players hang out - beebo, myspace, facebook, youtube, which websites etc and target them by having some sort of presence there.
Blogs would be an excellent idea (again someone already suggested this) - these could be diarys of new games as they are released (Ranger is excellent at this if you want to see a good example of how its done), LAN blogs, etc.
Other useful web tools like Tag Clouds, an image library, news and events, a diary (like we have on the forum) this would pubbies to see when we play certain games so they can plan for it and join us.
Any CMS using CSS/xhtml should be fairly easy to change the design and should really be updated every 12 months to keep it fresh.
The website content should be written for the target audience/s and should be really edited down where possible - often they are far too long and waffly on websites.
Totally agree on Flash, it should be used sparingly for impact.
I'd like to see peer to peer reviews of dMw as a community and on particular games we play - users love reading and trust other users reviews on all things (which is why Amazon is so popular for finding out about products) - so why not let our current members sell dMw to others?
http://www.tacticalgamer.com is a nice start.
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Dogmeat what do you reckon to Joomla - I've used the previous version to the current version and it wasn't the easist CMS I've ever used to be honest - but I guess whatever we use needs to be free.
What about wordpress? I know it's mainly known for its blog, but its a very handy CMS aswell, with tons of free plugins.
I also worked with DotNetNuke, which is pretty easy to use aswell, but probably a bit more tricky to get running.
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Thanks for the ideas I think I've unleashed a beast :)
What's nice is that I'm sure we have the talent here to build anything we want. Please keep it coming. Excellent stuff.
I have installed a couple of Joomla sites (in the last couple of years) and I agree that it wasn't the easiest to setup and get running. Might have changed now though.
I've installed loads of Wordpress sites (I say 'loads', by 'loads' I mean maybe a dozen?) and yes there are plenty of plugins which effectively turn it into a full fledged CMS. I'm not sure about 'the others' but Wordpress posts are immediately picked up by Google (if you want them to be) which is a nice feature.
My perception is that we, the membership, tend not to visit the community homepage let alone use any of the links there but I'm basing that entirely on my own experience. I simply find all I need in the forum section and assume all regulars do also. So, in my mind, the homepage is where our guests first drop in to meet us and, IMHO, are currently greeted by an unnecessarily busy page. So based on my (possibly flawed) perception I would like to see the dMw homepage become a simple, uncluttered, easy to navigate eye-catching 'shop window' display that informs and entices passers-by to learn more about us and the way we play. I like the idea of having a more user-friendly portal for the community but does it need to be the homepage?
Something that I'm dead against having on our homepage is those realtime server monitor thingies. Because of our demographic our servers are only busy for a small period of the day. Showing a list of empty servers to a casual visitor is not good PR.
My 2p :)
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I agree that the first place I always go to is the forum, however, on other gaming sites / forums, I do like the idea of seeing server activity, as I may see one or more on L4d for example and I might think 'I will join' where i didn't really have the intention in the first place to join (maybe make this so only registered members can see this?), however, I appreciate there are pro's and cons to this, just my thoughts.
I also like the idea of an instant chat facility, I know we have IRC, but having it all under one roof keeps it more of a community, maybe a quick bit of banter in the morning before the day starts etc etc. It will also help keep the 'drivel' away from the forums (not that we suffer from it).
I would like to see news and updates, such as:
forum / site updates
up and coming releases
New patches / expansions
dMw news
Other gaming news
This could be just a brief bulletin message rather than a thread / forum post.
Quote from: OldBloke;292864My perception is that we, the membership, tend not to visit the community homepage let alone use any of the links there but I'm basing that entirely on my own experience. I simply find all I need in the forum section and assume all regulars do also. So, in my mind, the homepage is where our guests first drop in to meet us and, IMHO, are currently greeted by an unnecessarily busy page. So based on my (possibly flawed) perception I would like to see the dMw homepage become a simple, uncluttered, easy to navigate eye-catching 'shop window' display that informs and entices passers-by to learn more about us and the way we play. I like the idea of having a more user-friendly portal for the community but does it need to be the homepage?
Something that I'm dead against having on our homepage is those realtime server monitor thingies. Because of our demographic our servers are only busy for a small period of the day. Showing a list of empty servers to a casual visitor is not good PR.
My 2p :)
This is what I was talking about when I said it should probably be a WOW site.
That makes new comers think this place is really cool :D
Not a huge fan of homepages that are cluttered and full of flash etc, simplistic is better IMO, or present the user with a default nice homepage that they can then customise with widgets etc.
Quote from: Zootoxin;292869This is what I was talking about when I said it should probably be a WOW site.
That makes new comers think this place is really cool :D
I dont like WOW or Flash. Its one of those things that makes me click the back button. I like a comfy cardi with labels telling me whats going on, but mainly pointing to the forum.
God forbid that I am ever associated with cool.
As a child of the 50's I dislike this new fangled nomclementure. :angry:
Iz rite
Quote from: DogMeat;292865Absolutely yes. Homepage first to check on $STUFF, then off to the forums.
But this could be the member's homepage/portal. It could be separate from the visitor's homepage.
That's 4p now :D
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my way in is a toolbar bookmark for todays posts.
I don't think I ever see our homepage except by accident.
usually I only ever visit any homepage once, after that I have the forum bookmarked.
I'm not a great fan of bells and whistles, as long as the forum pages load fast and the colours are not too bright or dark, I'm usually happy.
I do agree with Snokio, when I do go to a clan's HP, I do want to see what they play and who's playing...Only this week I have been trying to fnd some BoD servers, but their site is impossible to navigate:sideways:
Giving this a little bump in case there are any other thoughts or ideas.
The update to VBulletin 4 (http://www.vbulletin.com/vbulletin4/) is looking very promising. We've already decided to go with the upgrade to the forums. However this new software offers many new features that could in turn solve the problems and issues we have with the web site.
It may well be possible to build the whole site around Vb4. This would make things very simple as contributors, authors etc to the new web site could use their existing forum logins to access the new features. Everything would remain within the same interface rather than have a separate web site and forum. This would simplify things and make running and contributing to the combined forum/webs site a much simpler option. It would probably allow for any of the suggestions already made to be incorporated into the web site a well.
Nothing decided yet so any additional ideas are most welcome. Cheers
I like the idea of a light front page. I would also like it to be dynamic because a frontpage is often static, made ages ago, and does not really show the life we have to offer. Thus... perhaps something like:
who
5-10 lines about us, linking to a more detailed text (like we have now)
what
some real time server info on what we have (what we play and that we have lots of real time action going), links to the specific game forums.
when
extracts from calendar showing upcoming (thus also shows we are alive and kicing) and explains that we play specific games, specific days, links to the calendar.
why
why dMw is addictive, perhaps a lan pic, smoothly designed to fit a sleek frontpage, some beer, some awards, some hardcore gaming and links to the gallery.
etc something like that.
then some basic contact details which are clear. Who to contact wrt matches, general inquiries etc. and how to proceed should they fancy a game.
hows the progress going?
Smilodon is heading up the web team and he concluded that the things that we needed to do were best handled by vB4, the upgrade to our current forum software. This was released recently as final beta and went Gold last week. We're bringing up a test site to then build and test things ready for the upgrade process. Of course the content then needs to be plugged in and that is where Smilodon will no doubt have a lot of fun and asking for help in various areas. Things will start happening once we have a test site for his team to play with; I know he has a number of 'offers' of help, we've just been waiting for the vB4 release as it is a significant change compared to vB3.
...... which is basically the post I was supposed to make before Xmas. However due to err something or other I was unable to post anything. Err forgetfulness...... that's it :)
It's not exactly clear what functionality will be available in the new version, how well it will work or whether there will even be a need for it in dMw. There have been lots of fine ideas posted in this thread but I'm uncertain if they are just suggestions or if community members really want the features for their own use i.e. they will create the content the feature offers?
So the basic plan is to get a handle on what VB4 offers, decide if we need more functionality that it can provide and then begin to build a feature list. I'm 'fairly' confident VB4 will offer the features that we need but am not confident I know exactly what community members actually want. What is certain IMHO is that we need to separate the permanent static content from the forum posts. Forum stickies are not really the place for community rules, game rules etc etc. This change plus a new sexy look might be enough for our needs.
However if we do add more features and functions to the site it's not enough to just add new content features if there's no one keen to create the actual content itself. For example we could give community members blogging facilities. Great, but will anyone actually commit to write interesting content? If not then there's no point activating that feature.
I'm thinking we might implement VB4, with a new look and feel and then offer the additional features to the community. If there are people who want to use a specific feature we can add it. If not them we can leave it deactivated or not install the relevant add on.
As far as I'm concerned the main page only needs logos of each of the officially supported games fairly prominently (clickable to a link to our server ip addresses), maybe split into FPS, WoW, Racing etc, and then a description on the style we play games. No need for in-game screen shots, if they have the game they know what it looks like.
Then a list of the days the games are played and when they're likely to be busy.
Rather than forum posts if there was an indicator when a server is in use, or an "event" indicator when someone starts a game that could be uwseful, but probably too indepth as 90% of us won't see it as we go straight to the forum.
I remembered reading some stuff about vBulletin that you might find interesting.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/10/30/vbulletin_defends_forum_bans/
http://www.macvicar.net/blog/2009/12/funemployment-part-1-becoming-unemployed.html
QuoteSince the other UK-based senior developers and I left the code quality has dropped somewhat, there are over 1000 open bugs (http://short.ie/vbbugs) filed, on a normal day this time last year it would be around 10. Internet Brands have also increased prices, changed the licensing model and shelved the project tools product. A lot has changed in a short period of time and I'm not sure if it was for the best.
Worth knowing
One man's view on vB4 HERE (http://www.taskforce141st.com/forums/showthread.php?1254-vBulletin-4-is-SHITE%21&p=4036#post4036) Not a happy bunny. :)
To be fair, the change from vB3 to vB4 is not just an upgrade, it's a total re-write with a massively changed feature set, so I would absolutely expect some people to be vehemently upset, about either their change in pricing structure, the number of bugs or just the fact that it is new.
Is it fair to blog about the bug count and compare the bug count on a totally new & expanded platform that at that point had just gone Beta with the bug count on an established release code on the older, smaller feature set vB3? Some might say that's just a slightly rose-tinted comparison from an ex-employee who also claims to have detailed knowledge of the drop of in quality control on the vB4 code even though he left the company 6 months previously and has no access to the code they have subsequently written. Six months is a long time to be out of the loop in the software game.
I think I recall similar upset when CS:CZ came out. 'Never!' was the war cry some uttered, yet they are happily continuing to play CS through various iterations and would now not look back.
I'm not arguing that Jelsoft may not have got some things wrong, but I think it would help to take a broader view than just the comments of a few individuals. The Jelsoft forums have a broad spectrum of posts, some are simple bug reports, some started a campaign about the change in pricing structure before the product was even in Beta, some have found some horrible bugs on their particular forum, but that's why vB4 is not live on this site.
Jelsoft have a big subscriber base and are trying to make the move from a relatively basic vB3 to a totally re-written vB4 with a massively expanded feature set. I'm sure that along the way they will err and we'll find bugs, but that's why we're planning to bring up a test site first. Reading into the RC you'll see two planned updates to the vB4 code are planned for this month with another in February. Yes they might have rushed to Gold before being ready, but the progress they have made is measurable and continuous, so we'll bring the test site up and test it to see if it does what we want it to do before subjecting it to our members. The feature set of vB4 implies it will give us the control and functions that we want for our website and that's what we are looking forward to in the long term.
All valid points there TL.
My two pence worth is this:
When something NEW comes out, I tend not to be in the group of people who automatically go out and buy the latest and greatest, usually because I'm not flush with cash but also because I prefer to 'see how things go' before I buy.
Perhaps we should have a similar approach to vB4? How long has it been out (if it's even released yet)? If not, then can we wait longer for the bigger and better v4 before we buy?
In short no, unless you wanted to pay twice a smuch for it.
Quote from: TeaLeaf;300732In short no, unless you wanted to pay twice a smuch for it.
Why would we pay more twice as much by waiting? Is the upgrade a deal which can only happen within a period of time?
Yes it's an offer which doubles in price if you do not upgrade within a specified period.
Permission to say "Ah Crap!" :D But thanks, that explains a lot!
What will it do that isn't being, or can't be done with the existing software? Serious question.
Basically offer us a full featured community site that includes a forum rather than a forum that offers some limited community features.
Life will be so much easier if we can keep our online activities within one consolidated piece of software. Even simple things like allowing members to add, remove, update etc content based on the same permission structure we use for the forum will be really useful.
The alternative is to start using completely separate software which we will have to start learning from scratch and which we will have to try to either link seamlessly with the forum or export the entire forum into a new application!
VB4 may or may not fulfill our requirements, I hope very much that it does. As I've mentioned those requirement may be no more than a redesign and sorting of information into more appropriate locations or a whole host of new features and functions. That's basically up to us and what we as a community want to both create and consume. We keep VB4 up to date as it is, so this update could be a very timely occurrence. The test site will let everyone see what we can do and whether the new version is what we want.
It also removes the need for us to renew licences for some additional plugins we use on our current forum, which saves some money.
I'll be the only one, but I'd like the front page to look like....
http://osc.template-help.com/drupal_26398/
others here....just for inspiration.
http://www.templatemonster.com/category/games/
Im always a little scared to click on Benny links but these are safe.
Quote from: Benny;300805I'll be the only one, but I'd like the front page to look like....
http://osc.template-help.com/drupal_26398/
others here....just for inspiration.
http://www.templatemonster.com/category/games/
You're not the only one :) Nice and simple with big areas to click on. Translating those big areas on that site to ours would equal our main games WoW, COD4 L4D etc
Right now the test forum looks a lot like this
http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/content.php
It's basically our starting point. Obviously we can heavily theme our site to look more like a gaming community (as per Benny's links) and less like a newspaper.
As soon as I have got my finger out and knocked up a 1st draft we can have a look and go from there.
Quote from: smilodon;302520Right now the test forum looks a lot like this
http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/content.php
:thumbsup:
It does look very 'newspapery' but I quite like it! :D
Quote from: Jabbs;302526It does look very 'newspapery' but I quite like it! :D
Way to cluttered for my taste tbh.
So much stuff going on that the important parts of the page fail to grab your attention.
I stand by less is more :)
Please remember that's the out of the box page which is set up to show lots of things turned on. It's not a 'gold' design, it's a learning tool so that we can understand what it can do and how best to deploy those features in a way that best suits us. As I said elsewhere, the design & content will follow once we get a reasonable handle on the huge feature set of this package and decide if, when, where and how to deploy them.
Quote from: TeaLeaf;302607Please remember that's the out of the box page which is set up to show lots of things turned on. It's not a 'gold' design, it's a learning tool so that we can understand what it can do and how best to deploy those features in a way that best suits us. As I said elsewhere, the design & content will follow once we get a reasonable handle on the huge feature set of this package and decide if, when, where and how to deploy them.
So what is the time line for us to start testing it and when would we expect it to be in place?
Basically with the pczone feature on the cards we need a better frontpage and we need it now.
If we are to be featured in the magazine we need a portal for people to arrive see what we do and what we are about.
I'm sorry but this thread was started in October and from what i can see we haven't got very far. If our test site looks anything close to the link you provided we have a long way to even consider launching it.
I suggested a couple of things months ago for creating a who we are and what we do. I asked for us to delve into interviews and get section heads to do short videos Can we do these at the lan?
This could be done at the lan and we can get a separate landing site setup to give to pczone when we are featured. We have expert knowledge here so lets use it. The full site might not be ready but we need a landing page thats our priority at the moment.
Few communities if any get the opportunity to be featured in a magazine so we need something of high quality and we need it as soon as possible.
I worked hard to find and get the idea off the ground such as attending lans having phonecalls with the editor and even attending personal meetings. i wouldn't have suggested it if we didn't have a substantial fan base but also the technical knowhow.
Also four months on and i can't see any substantial effort into what has been put forward.
A quick response.
First we don't have any ability to dictate when V Bulletin release their new software. Until they do we can't do much at all. They have 'just' released it so now we finally have something to work with. By just released I mean we've had it about a week.
Second I've had plenty of suggestions about what we should have on the site but oddly not a single offer by anyone to actually write any of it. There's no point developing a feature that's never going to get used. If someone really wants to make regular contributions to a blog etc please say so. At the moment I'm working on the basis that no one does and so the site is looking for a re- theme, a new welcome to the dMw intro page and the relocation of 'static' information about the games and services we offer.
Thirdly make no mistake I am NOT going to be creating all this content myself. The reason we went for VBulletin 4 was so that individual members could contribute to the community. We're developing a content management system not a content creation system. Much of the information already exists within the forums and the existing site. But anything 'new' is going to need to be created. If the dMw community wants it they can write it. I'll provide the framework and the permissions but as said I'm not writing the whole thing. So if anyone thinks they're going to log in one day and see a whole bright new shiny web site and forum...... dream on.
I'm going to try to spend some time over the weekend with the test site. Hopefully I'll have a basic menu structure up and running by then.
As to the visual look. That's down to themes. There a many of them available on the web. Do a Google for 'VBulletin 4 themes' for a looksie. Again the look of the site will be down to what the majority agree on. Some suggestions and links to good themes would be appreciated. I have no intention of saying 'There you all go, that's what your new site will look like.' It's not up to me at all. It's up to all of you. So get digging.
Quote from: smilodon;302770A quick response.
First we don't have any ability to dictate when V Bulletin release their new software. Until they do we can't do much at all. They have 'just' released it so now we finally have something to work with. By just released I mean we've had it about a week.
Second I've had plenty of suggestions about what we should have on the site but oddly not a single offer by anyone to actually write any of it. There's no point developing a feature that's never going to get used. If someone really wants to make regular contributions to a blog etc please say so. At the moment I'm working on the basis that no one does and so the site is looking for a re- theme, a new welcome to the dMw intro page and the relocation of 'static' information about the games and services we offer.
Thirdly make no mistake I am NOT going to be creating all this content myself. The reason we went for VBulletin 4 was so that individual members could contribute to the community. We're developing a content management system not a content creation system. Much of the information already exists within the forums and the existing site. But anything 'new' is going to need to be created. If the dMw community wants it they can write it. I'll provide the framework and the permissions but as said I'm not writing the whole thing. So if anyone thinks they're going to log in one day and see a whole bright new shiny web site and forum...... dream on.
I'm going to try to spend some time over the weekend with the test site. Hopefully I'll have a basic menu structure up and running by then.
As to the visual look. That's down to themes. There a many of them available on the web. Do a Google for 'VBulletin 4 themes' for a looksie. Again the look of the site will be down to what the majority agree on. Some suggestions and links to good themes would be appreciated. I have no intention of saying 'There you all go, that's what your new site will look like.' It's not up to me at all. It's up to all of you. So get digging.
I would like to point if that what Smilo writes about no people responding being willing to write it is not true.
I was offered the task of rewriting the front page text content, which I said yes to and which I spent quite some time on doing and sent to approval. I later learned that my shipped file had been "sitting there for a month or so" quoting Pen after several times inquiring about it. Then I heard Smilo was given the task of doing the frontpage instead and thus my several hours of effort was ignored. Now, I do hope that whoever stands up to assist in this will get treatment a lot better than I did.
Also, the task of rewriting was given to me a lot earlier than October, and even by back it was made clear that this was overdue, so this process has been on for a lot longer than that. IMHO something SHOULD have been put up back in the summer 09, because anything updated and more reflective of what we do and play would be better. It could be done over a weekend, basically just updating the text to reflect what we play would be better etc. So waiting for the new vBulletin is for me a not a valid excuse.
Edit: Sorry for the rant in advance, but: As someone spending a lot of his spare time in NGOs I know how frustrating it can be to be pushed and poked for completing a task, which you do in your sparetime. But, the fact of the matter is that people have responded to help but was ignored and updating the text on the front now is such a minor task that it should not have taken since summer 09 to get done. One hour of group chat could have updated so much and there were people willing to do it.
I don't remember in this thread being asked for help? the first set of posts are all about the ideas up until the 27th October. Then someone replied on 1st January asking how it was going to which the reply was that a decision had been made to use Vbulletin. (Check this thread)
How are we supposed to then offer help when the decision is already made?
There are number of decent web developers and designers here. I'm average don't get me wrong! :blink: I'm sure one or two of them could have knocked up a new front page or two for our discussions if we had been invited.
I have to agree with Del and GM, nothing much has happened and what has happened is that decisions have been made on our behalf. That's fine if that's the way it is but I don't think the community should be blamed for 'not coming forward' to help.
Quote from: delanvital;302775I was offered the task of rewriting the front page text content, which I said yes to and which I spent quite some time on doing and sent to approval. I later learned that my shipped file had been "sitting there for a month or so" quoting Pen after several times inquiring about it. Then I heard Smilo was given the task of doing the frontpage instead and thus my several hours of effort was ignored. Now, I do hope that whoe
Can you post what you made online and give a link to it so people in general can give some feedback. I think this would move a lot faster if it's talked about more, and that happens when idea get tossed back and forth.
I guess the admins still need final say, but in the mean time "a say" will do to get things rolling.
Quote from: T-Bag;302782Can you post what you made online and give a link to it so people in general can give some feedback. I think this would move a lot faster if it's talked about more, and that happens when idea get tossed back and forth.
I guess the admins still need final say, but in the mean time "a say" will do to get things rolling.
That is not for me to decide. I doubt there are plans to revise the old site now, but if so, fine by me. I am certain it can be a starting point for a discussion of what to include and what not on a new site :) (edited)
Edit: I need to clarify a point. My post has some crap language and I am sorry for that. Pen has always responded kindly to any inquiries I have made and when finally inquiring him regarding this, I actually learned that it was placed as "in development", of which nothing has since then happened and the content was ignored. So sorry for that Pen.
Quote from: delanvital;302787of which nothing has since then happened and the content was ignored. So sorry for that Pen.
Not quite. Another way of viewing it might be:
A lot has happened since you provided it to us, including the research & decision to go with vB4 which we then had to wait for to be released. Clearly the use of any content depends on the way we redesign the site and you were told that we would hold the content submitted for that decision. That's not quite the same as 'content was ignored' or 'sat on shelf for a month'. Apology accepted.
No worries. I just want to clarify a couple of things and set the record straight.
As Delan says, it wasn't ignored. My actual reply was:
QuoteI'm a bit out of the loop with this but as far as I can see Gandy posted up your text at the end of August and it was there waiting for the redevelopment to start. I'll find out more what happened and will post - or someone else will - to you.
It was put in the 'pending' file - not ignored. But, either way, there was a breakdown in communication somewhere down the line and I do think the delay also exacerbated things somewhat. The reason for which is outlined above.
PEN.
edit: thanks for clarifying..... unlike the Queen, I do answer every pm I get sent :flirty:.
double edit: posted same time as above.
Quote from: Jabbs;302777There are number of decent web developers and designers here. I'm average don't get me wrong! :blink: I'm sure one or two of them could have knocked up a new front page or two for our discussions if we had been invited.
That has still not been ruled out and may well still be needed. but we also had to decide how to maintain all the other aspects of dMw without daily coding intervention. That latter aspect was why we went to vB4. As I mentioned elsewhere, we're trying to learn the CMS CP and then move to filling content including whether or not to use a front page (of whichever style). Smilodon is heading up the content side of things, so anyone interested in contributing or helping out should make contact with him direct please. Please remember though, contributions of content or help are not guaranteed to make it into the final site!
Hope that clarifies.
Although I don't really understand the in's and out's of how the forum infrastructure works and the amount of work required, but is it worth looking at another alternative to VB4,
From my limited knowledge on this, am I correct in saying there is alot of coding which is quite complicated and in depth? So if there was 'template' / 'script' already available, would this meet the communities requirements and expectations? I'm thinking along the lines of maybe outsourcing? http://www.rockettheme.com/
As i have said, I don't know the in's and out's, Or how much time has been invested into VB4 already as it is a new release, the link above may not even be any help, I'm just thinking outside of the box a little, So I'm just throwing it out there :)
Quote from: TeaLeaf;302797Not quite. Another way of viewing it might be:
A lot has happened since you provided it to us, including the research & decision to go with vB4 which we then had to wait for to be released. Clearly the use of any content depends on the way we redesign the site and you were told that we would hold the content submitted for that decision. That's not quite the same as 'content was ignored' or 'sat on shelf for a month'. Apology accepted.
Apology accepted? I am sorry, but I can't be bothered to be provoked. I think your presentation above is wrong and will let the facts speak for themselves.
I think you might have misunderstood that Snokio. The template/script *is* vB4, it allows the style changes to be imported from elsewhere or custom designed to suit us. It's the options that are new to us as vB has not previously had a CMS and we had been using a plugin CMS system. The CMS included with vB4 allows us to manage the content in the way we want and as it is a complete re-write of the code we're learning the CP over again and finding our way around the very many of new features (the features which attracted us in the first place).
Quote from: Benny;292845http://www.tacticalgamer.com is a nice start.
Interestingly it's powered by vB. So it is possible.
Quote from: TeaLeaf;302809I think you might have misunderstood that Snokio. The template/script *is* vB4, it allows the style changes to be imported from elsewhere or custom designed to suit us. It's the options that are new to us as vB has not previously had a CMS and we had been using a plugin CMS system. The CMS included with vB4 allows us to manage the content in the way we want and as it is a complete re-write of the code we're learning the CP over again and finding our way around the very many of new features (the features which attracted us in the first place).
Ahh, I understand thanks :doh:
I sometimes think there must be two identical dMw forums. The one I post on and the one everyone else posts on. Cause I seem to type stuff and post and then it's as if my posts simply didn't ever appear?
So one more go eh.
My job is NOT to write the new dMw home page text. I'm not writing ANY of the content that will feature on the updated site. It's not my job, not my remit and I've not been asked to do it. So hopefully that's now clear. It's not my task. Ok great. What is my task is three fold. First it's to run the background technical stuff required in running the forums. I basically do the admin function. Penfold runs the community, I run the forum software the community runs on. Second I will have a similar role looking after the CMS/Web site part of the community site. Third I'm gathering the thoughts and ideas about what we want from the site and I'll be taking the feedback and changing stuff once the new site is up and running. Project Management if you like. Once again I am not building the site, not deciding what the site will contain nor what it will look like and as we're all now so very very aware I am not going to be writing the web site content.:)
Moving on. What we will need is contribution in the form of written stuff to actually go on the forum. That includes whatever goes on the front page. Something has already been written and assuming everyone else is happy with it then it will most likely form the page that new visitors read when they first arrive at the site. It won't appear till the new site appears.
We've had lots of fine suggestions for what we could do with the site. Although obviously the vast majority of the community didn't offer an opinion at all, and there's no reason why they should. Some of the suggestions includes interviews, podcasts, reviews, blogs etc. Two thoughts cross my mind. First do we really want these features? Can we really produce stuff that the community might want to read? And can we produce stuff that isn't readily available elsewhere on the web? If we do want this stuff then who will write it?
I stand by my earlier point. I asked for ideas about what we could do with the site and I got some incitefull suggestions. But no one so far has contacted me and asked to be able to write any of it (with the notable exception of Delanvital who wrote his piece long before I asked anyway). So I'll ask now. Are there people who can commit to regularly write original, interesting, well written and informative pieces that would be of interest to this community and that cannot already be easily found elsewhere on the Internet? I await the responses.
Frankly though what I have managed to pick up from those who have expressed an opinion is the following.
1. The forum (along with the servers) and not the web site remains the heart and soul of our on-line community. The web site is our shop window.
2.We do need to think how we present ourselves to the world and new visitors. Our shop window needs an update
3. We need a new visual look and style to the web site element that would carry seamlessly across into the forum.
4. We need to include a well written introduction to the site (already done) and a clear navigation system that directs users to each gaming/folding etc section of our community. Here we will keep the server rules, guidelines, gaming policies etc. that define the games we play and how we like to play them. We may have map rotation list, server IP's, tips about logging in, setting up voice comms' and all the other useful stuff we need.
5. These sections will be managed by the relevant Section Head (i.e. they will have edit permissions etc) and contain the information about each game that currently sits either in forum sticky's and or on static pages within the web site.
6. If possible we will use a new feature of the Vbulletin software that allows us to 'promote' certain forum posts to the new front page. These in themselves could serve as the dynamic interesting information that makes a web site look current and relevant.
Vbulletin will allow us to have one enclosed piece of software that, much like the forum, will allow people to create and edit the web site content based on the same forum permissions we already enjoy i.e. Duval could update the pages about Folding much like a moderator can update a forum post.
I may be utterly wrong and I stand to be corrected but I do not believe there are enough people who want to be content creators (bloggers) to make it worth implementing now. The beauty of VBulletin is that nothing is set in stone. If I'm wrong it's a simple matter to add the features in quickly and painlessly as they become a requirement.
This weekend (the first free one I have since we updated the software) I'll have a play around with it. I'm sorry that I'm not a professional VBulletin designer and am having to learn this stuff as I go along. If you want to have go feel free to find out more here (http://www.vbulletin.com/docs/html/) for the forum and here (http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/content.php?150-Getting-Started-with-CMS-Documentation-Files-28PDF-29) for the CMS
/flippant mode on
Quote from: smilodon;302815...Penfold runs the community
:lmfao:
sorry, I only got that far before lol'ing. I think perhaps running the forum may be more accurate but I like your thinking. :flirty:
/flippant mode off
Thanks for the clarification, it was needed I think.
As mentioned above, my only request (and one based on professional experience) is that if we're going to have live content - blogs articles etc and in whatever form, then they HAVE to be updated regularly. Otherwise it'll be totally counter-productive. Whoever takes that on has a hard and important role to play. Keeping it active, witty and topical is no mean feat. Be nothing worse that have a load of ageing turgid prose.
Quote from: Penfold;302816As mentioned above, my only request (and one based on professional experience) is that if we're going to have live content - blogs articles etc and in whatever form, then they HAVE to be updated regularly. Otherwise it'll be totally counter-productive. Whoever takes that on has a hard and important role to play. Keeping it active, witty and topical is no mean feat. Be nothing worse that have a load of ageing turgid prose.
Exactly my point. It would be grand to have active content like that. But I know what a huge ask it would be to get enough stuff written every week to make it worthwhile. I'm assuming we like to spend our time gaming not scribbling away. As mentioned I'm happy to be proved wrong if there are budding scribes out there desperate to put finger to keyboard on anything like a regular basis. :)
I just want to clarify a point I made yesterday before it gets swallowed :)
At no time in the thread (that I could see when re-reading) was anyone asked if they would like to contribute. The thread was a voice for ideas only until the thread went to sleep late October. It was then revived at the beginning of January to which we were told that vB4 was the way were going.
I don't have a problem with that if that's the decision made on our behalf but please don't make us look bad for not offering our skills when they actually haven't been asked for until now :norty:
Oh by the way, I think I do pretty good website copy (both visitor and search engine friendly) so if you want to give me a topic and pointers (when the time arises) I'll put something together.
Thanks :)
Again. The content side of things is one aspect, but we also need to handle and manage the content on an ongoing & manageable way. The content will come when we sort how we want to implement vB4.
The content management side of things is not a coding issue. Yes we can get people to code pages for us, but that also means manual involvement each time we need to update or change things. Given our experience with vB and their new CMS inclusion with vB4 we felt the most effective way of handling the content was via the vB4 CMS. That's something that the Admins have to handle and run on a day to day basis, so clealry their input was the major factor.
The fact that we have vB4 does not mean that we will not need people to write content or that we will not need people to code new pages for specific uses. The whole idea of vB4 is to allow us to have more content, more easily manipulated and updated that we have done up until now.
The work now is to try to get a handle on how to use all the new functionaility and then to fill the content. SHs have already been tasked with some aspects of that as it pertains to their specific game. Other content requirements will be decided as we work through the new CMS and find out what is needed.
Offers of help are always welcomed Jabbs. As I said above, poke Smilo and keep in touch with him, I am sure he has added yoru name to the list.
Quote from: Jabbs;302830Oh by the way, I think I do pretty good website copy (both visitor and search engine friendly) so if you want to give me a topic and pointers (when the time arises) I'll put something together.
Thanks :)
You make a fair point, I haven't asked specifically. I asked what people wanted to see on the site. I got some good feedback. Although it was clear we could have that facility so far no one has stepped up and asked to write anything, you offer accepted. Also Delanvital's front page piece is 'in the bag' but that's more of a fixed web site feature rather than an ongoing contribution.
I suppose my point was that no one 'seemed' to be champing at the bit to write stuff, so I assumed there wasn't really any desire by the community to turn the web site into a glorified online magazine. There's always the ability to have stuff promoted to the web site. If we get an occasional scribble by the good community then great. However unless I get some real positive feedback about a desire to write for the site then I'm working on the basis that while no one objects to us running the occasional article etc. that facility is not our top priority. Again correct me if I'm wrong
My original concern was, from reading previous posts, that I was somehow going to be creating the web site from scratch and presenting it to the community in a complete form. Obviously that's not the plan
Hows the new website coming along?
Progress updates have tended to be via the Supporting Member section rather than here, just in case you missed them!
Work is slow at the moment with the small number of people who volunteered to help, but it is steadily progressing. Current content is mostly re-done, a lot of the design work is still needing to be completed and new widgets and content still need writing.
...I can see a web dev forum but it's empty and I can't see a post-thread forum? :)
That is because it's a private forum for those who volunteered to help. A quiet place for us to consider ideas and options. Here we can turn our wild and madcap schemes into coherent plans before we present them to the world for consideration. In this way we look like we are an organised bunch of professionals. :norty:
Suicidal, I assume you can see and access the Web Design forum but not the Web Content forum?
How do I access the new forum?
Quote from: TeaLeaf;306216Suicidal, I assume you can see and access the Web Design forum but not the Web Content forum?
I only see an empty "Web Development" forum :g:- no design or content
Ok that means there's a problem with the permissions then, you should be able to see posts in the Design one with the badge you have. I'l go call Igor....!!