ok guys what my problem?
1: hardly ever get a grp
2: being subbed alot
there must be reasons for this
if i stink as a player tell me and i'll leave the guild
i mean i raided all thru nax,uldaur and toc
and now i'm not good enuff?
i'm 39 and i'm starting to wonder y i'm paying my subs for
tbh i'm losing the will, i've been playing to raid and thats not really happening
so if i cant change that i might quit wow altogether
I am disappointed that I was not ââ,¬Ëœchosenââ,¬â,,¢ to raid tonight (11/04/10), but given that we were over-subscribed, I was not surprised.
What did surprise me was the poor way that it was handled. Being invited to (and locked into) a raid group only to be subsequently booted (presumably to make room for someone else) was unpleasant to say the least and left me with a ââ,¬Ëœbitter taste in my mouthââ,¬â,,¢.
It did get me thinking about a few things that I would like clarified, all of which I have seen mentioned by others over the past week or so. I am not implying anything with these questions; I simply would like to know the information.
Firstly, a question I have asked twice before which has yet to be answered. Are we a hardcore or social raiding Guild?
How many ââ,¬Ëœautomaticââ,¬â,,¢ raid spots are there? Are these for: Class Leaders? Officers? Anyone else?
Of those positions that are available after the automatic raid spots are filled what criteria are used to choose the remainder, in order of precedence:
Class (obviously)? Gear/ability? Experience? Loyalty/time served in guild? Date/time a player signs up to the raid? Time player logs on in order to raid? Did/did not take part in last raid? Being part of a sub-group, faction or clique within the guild? Random ââ,¬Ëœroll of the diceââ,¬â,,¢? Anything else?
Are raid spots open until:
- the ââ,¬Ëœofficialââ,¬â,,¢ raid start time?
- the raid actually starts?
- some other time?
How many toons can each player have as ââ,¬ËœHonouredââ,¬â,,¢ (or higher) within the guild? Are there any exceptions (eg Officers, Class Leaders, or anyone else)?
I canââ,¬â,,¢t seem to find info on:
- How many officers are there, who are they, and what is their function?
- How many Class Leaders are there, who are they, and what is their function?
Most importantly, I would like to end by saying a big thank you to Sithy for organising a Guild event for us ââ,¬Ëœrejectsââ,¬â,,¢.
Robert
aka Treekin
Quote from: walrob;307935Firstly, a question I have asked twice before which has yet to be answered. Are we a hardcore or social raiding Guild?
How many toons can each player have as ââ,¬ËœHonouredââ,¬â,,¢ (or higher) within the guild? Are there any exceptions (eg Officers, Class Leaders, or anyone else)?
I canââ,¬â,,¢t seem to find info on:
- How many officers are there, who are they, and what is their function?
- How many Class Leaders are there, who are they, and what is their function?
Rob, I can handle some of these quickly.
The first of the above questions doesn't help you, so call it whatever you want. At 3 nights per week then we're not hardcore, but we all want progress but in a nice social environment but where people perform to the level required for the progress. As nobody really knows a precise definition of a 'social raiding guild' I'm not sure it if we qualify.
Not sure what you want to know about 'honoured' or higher, the ranks are int he guild list for all to see. You can count them if you want. Everyone one has one main for the purposes of invites, nobody has two, but clearly where class shortages dictate you might get an alt invited to allow the raid to proceed. You can also click on the badge on the left of the post, all officers & CLs are marked with an appropriate badge and it takes you to a full list. The same info is also in the in-game guild list.
Officer/CL function is quite simple. CLs run the class for raids. Officer are part of the Council and they run the guild and ultimately take overall control of everything - the buck stops with them.
If it is any consolation I spent some time getting locked in an instance tonight and am now sat outside it, so I know the situation, but sometimes a rotation is needed.
Hope this helps.
Merged Krac's thread into this one as similar topic.
Krac, we all get rotated, but I'll leave the ones who organised the raid to comment on specifics. For the first time in a while you have enough people in the guild to run a 25 man raid each raid night. This will inevitably mean more sitting than it did before, but also more progress.
What I would suggest though to both you & Rob is rather than post a public thread, why not ask your CL the questions you posted? They should be involved in the decision on who is in and who you rotate & when. You'll probably get a quicker answer too!
After a week of no raids i was really up for tonight and share the disappointment with the other subs, hey Sith Happens, and I feel like others left out more than my fair share but this is probably a subjective view.??
As we know when a raid gets started its hard to focus on all the whisp etc so when u are not selected accept it and move on, stay positive and do something else.
I disagree with TL (who sits objective & neutral so i respect the input) the buck does not stop with the class leaders or officers as they are of no greater importance than the rest of the guild, they "simply" lead the raid and organise the tactics.
Other posts ask for our opinions, it is our guild as has been quoted .
Class leader raid leader or bottle washer the motivation responsibility attitude etc etc should be the same, as should the chance to get in ...
I welcome the influx of new blood, perhaps some thought can be given how it is mixed with the old.
DKP for raid spots!
EDIT: Wasn't at last nights raid and got told about a problem so yeah, Deleted my post
As a verry old timer when it comes to raiding id like to chip in a few words.
Back in the day of vanila wow, when we had MC, BL and so on. We would get days with alot of ppl raiding. At one point we had 2 raid groups in SoG. 1 "hardcore" social group and one not so "hardcore" social group. At that time we had about 120 active raiders if im not mistaken, TL might chip in about this. At that time i was one off the "Vetran" locks in the guild and ofc i would be chosen to be in the raid as we where aiming to kill nefarian. But as a big group we would hafto rotate our spots so that everyone got to raid. Did it slow our progress, no i don't think so, cause the group was leaded by some verry good raid leaders.
Now after a whil TBC came and Raid group 1 got sort of disbanded as members joined other guilds. I joined Sora 1 week after it was created with members from Anything and Rigtheous. Now that was a hardcore raid guild. Raiding 4-5 days a week, always stacking up on pots, always pushing hard from 1930 to 2330 on every raid day. We had 3-5 extra ppl in the raid group, but we where all requierd to show up on each raid night. If you could not show up then you had to let your class leader know asap. And it was tough, whiping and pushing. But it payed out, Hyjal and BT was cleared in good time and made the guild one of the better ones in europe.
Now Sunwell Platau hit and we started on that, we had lost a few raid members and gotten new ones. Not all had done much in Hyjal and BT and we did not progress as fast as ppl wanted. At this time my intrest in the game started to fade so i asked to be taken out of the raid group. 2 months later the guild disbanded due to ppl not focusing.
I for one think the reason why it happend was ppl got tierd of raiding too much, and did not have a wide enough raid group. If we raid a 25 man dungeon then you should have a raid group consisting of 35-40 players that will rotate on the raiding. This is doable and will give ppl 2/3 raid days or maybe you can only raid 1 day this week then so be it. Others can take that raid spot.
The raid leaders know what they are doing, are they pushing for a kill ofc the want to have the ppl with the best gear and the ppl that have done the encounter the most times there. But everyone needs to learn it at some point if they are in the raid group. And don't give up, ever :)
My first raid day was some scary ****, a green and blue warlock was invited into MC for the first time ever, think we where on Sulfron at that time. Well i started off by dying after the 2nd pull or something, and ended up almost beating Kreuz record for most deaths. For those who do not know who Kreuz is, he is a human mage.
So just stay with the program, talk to your class leader and raise your concerns there. And ask for a rotating system.
JT
Gonna try and shed a bit of light on a few things about raiding, as requested
With regards to getting locked out, well the solution is to join the group but just don't enter the instance until you know you're in the raid, we always have and will continue to invite all available raiders to a group so that
A) We can see whos on and available and check this against raid signups.
B) Award DKP to raiders and subs alike.
C) Get a list of available subs should someone need to be replaced.
Also the ICC 25 man is locked for raiders in DMR
Once we can see who is around then we goto defcon 2 assembling a raid
"Of those positions that are available after the automatic raid spots are filled what criteria are used to choose the remainder, in order of precedence:
Class (obviously)? Gear/ability? Experience? Loyalty/time served in guild? Date/time a player signs up to the raid? Time player logs on in order to raid? Did/did not take part in last raid? Being part of a sub-group, faction or clique within the guild? Random ââ,¬Ëœroll of the diceââ,¬â,,¢? Anything else?"
Answered your own question there mate - class, experience and gear (for progression raids)
There is no old school tie, there are no guaranteed spots, every single officer has at some point dropped from a raid to allow room for someone else, now we find ourselves in the great position of actually having more than enough people to raid so this entails that not everyone will get a spot.
We now have to sort out our resources and make the best of what we now have. Unfortunatly (for mages and hunters but fortunatly for DMR)
we now have gone from 2 hunters to 5 and 2 mages to 6 and 2 locks to 4
etc so ALL will be rotated at some point, difference being that all the above have as good or in most cases better kit than DMR do so can be put into any fight as needed, this is not an option for the people needing gearing up.
Last night was a progression night starting at festergut which requires extreme levels of DPS, the logs aren't up yet but i doubt that there were many if any that were under 6.5kdps at the low end and some of the guys were up near 9k dps at the top end and we still only made the enrage by 5 secs (this is not an e-peen moment just a fact) progression nights and undergeared raiders don't mix well - sorry if that sounds harsh but its true -
However let me just say that we will be making every effort to help gear all our raiders who need stuff, for a start the first 25 man each week we will allocate as many spots as we can to people needing gear (3 or 4 but its a suck it and see moment here - we got enuff dps then cool if we dont or have too much then we change the numbers till it works) for at least the first 4 bosses (bear in mind this and 10 mans and badges is how we geared up and not a huge amount is needed by many from these bosses).
After this we may need to swap people out for better geared members to reach the considerably higher DPS requirments needed for the next 3 bosses, as everyones gear gets better then this will not be so much of an issue and we can just drop everyone into a normal spot rotation.
We will be putting up 10 mans for during the week as well on non raiding nights, this week we will try to just invite all to a big group and then have a sort out, making room for at least one person who needs gearing in each group (although it may yet be a progress group and then a group with a coupla spots we shall see !)
Please be patient and understand that we have just had to sort a merger into DMR of the bulk of another raiding guild and this is only a week old and working nicely !
There was alot of hard work from both guild masters to make this happen and in my opinion we have achieved saving both them and us from going to the raiding dogs as far as 25 man raids go, two weeks ago we were cancelling raids and losing members at a rate now we got 40 people online at raid time...i know what i'd rather have.
There is still a few bits to sort out and work is ongoing regarding this so apologies if we seem to not answer sometimes or are a bit short but believe it or not we like to play the game as well !
(adding a smiley so the above is taken in the right way but cant find em so you'll have to make do with a home made one : )
Quote from: walrob;307935Being invited to (and locked into) a raid group
- I think you only get saved if you enter the instance, it is not like you join the raid and automatically get saved to all instances the raid group is saved to AFAIK - if this was what you wrote about.
I have already posted this in General Absence thread but I think it has its just spot even in this thread.
I cannot raid on Tuesdays so there will be one hunter less to consider. Also, I am wiling to free my spot on Thursdays for first 3 bosses (or even 4 if I dont have enough DKP to win a armor token) for the sake of gearing up people who actually need either loot, emblems or reputation.
And last, but not least, my wife allows me to raid only two nights a week.
I hope all this will help to ease the tension a bit.
ive been at that point where i felt i never got an invite and it bothered me seeing demi playing but i were left out, this is not not a big deal anymore since healers are more or less always needed.
after some time i see that its beeing rotated around. so everyone gets a spot, ofc there is more ppl left out atm because of the newly merge this is also something to consider.
another side is as DFE meantioned about him willing to give a spot for 3 bosses if he has dkp for the mark, i belive that if you want loot from a specific boss you should be in the raid from the beginning and not swap through specific bosses as this would be unfair to the rest whos doing all the work just to get it nicked away,
we need some rules about that
Quote from: Drakelin;307963i belive that if you want loot from a specific boss you should be in the raid from the beginning and not swap through specific bosses as this would be unfair to the rest whos doing all the work just to get it nicked away,
we need some rules about that
The whole point of people sitting out on the first bosses is to allow the people who need the gear from these bosses the chance to get it. You should not think that "hey I'm doing all the work here so I should be in for the whole raid". The people who need the gear should be more of the opinion, that people who would have been in competition for their raid place have stepped aside to allow for them to gear up. People who actively step aside should then not be penalized because they were not involved in the first 3 - 4 bosses. In my opinion they should be applauded for allowing other members to raid / gear up.
I'll willingly step aside whilst im on nights and afters ;)
Maypal is spot on in my opinion. Sitting out to allow others to get the loot when you already have the loot you need is the best way to gear the raid - especially as you get DKP whether you are in the queue or in the instance.
OK all happy now lets move on
Thank you all for your input.
Iââ,¬â,,¢ll address this in chronological order, but first some general points which seem to have been missed by many of the respondents.
1. My original post comprises of three tenuously-related, but nonetheless separate, topics. Firstly an expression of how I feel about a specific event, secondly a request for information, thirdly an expression of thanks.
2. The questions I raised in the second part of my original post are purely a request for information. They do not imply anything. I am simply requesting information to better form an opinion, not jumping to conclusions without knowing what I feel are most if not all the pertinent facts (I donââ,¬â,,¢t know if I know what I donââ,¬â,,¢t know).
Firstly to TL.
You are incorrect in your assertion that ââ,¬Å"The first of the above questions doesn't help youââ,¬Â. It is important to know how people think of the Guild. Feedback as to whether the members of the Guild think of the guild as Social, Hardcore, or something else does help me in forming an opinion from which to further this debate in a constructive manner.
Kracââ,¬â,,¢s post mainly refers to himself. I seek a wider view of guild policies and how the Guild is runââ,¬Â¦chiefly who I go to for advice, and for suggestions, complaints, and for praise for jobs well done. Again, there is a tenuous link, but they are wholly separate issues.
As for posting to a public forum, this is an appropriate place to raise this issue. As I clearly stated in my original post, this issue affects more than one person. Indeed, there are five dMr members that have expressed their dissatisfaction to me directly. These cover all classes (Tank, Healer, DPS). Given the limited number of dMr members I know, it is highly-likely that there are more disgruntled members; the silent (yet significant) minority?
It is therefore wholly appropriate that this is aired as a general discussion in this forum. It allows all to voice their opinion in a considered fashion, it allows those who may otherwise think that they are alone to realise that they are not, it avoids repetition and minimise the ââ,¬Ëœworkââ,¬â,,¢ of class leaders, it allows for consistency and the communication of the evolutionary direction of the Guildââ,¬â,,¢s, and finally, it is open and transparent.
I do not understand why you think that this forum is an inappropriate place. Would you elucidate please?
As for a quicker answerââ,¬Â¦I am in no hurry.
Sithy
I was disappointed with not raiding, but I accept disappointment is part of life (it is rare for someone to get to my age and not experience plenty of it). However I was put out by the manner which it was done, as I expressed in my original post.
FatBob
As to being lockedââ,¬Â¦it was not unreasonable for me to assume that I was in the raid, as I had been accepted and had been waiting around for 20+ mins when I was asked to leave to make way for late-commers.
If experience and gear are priority, then those of us with lesser gear and lesser experience have no way of gaining it, so itââ,¬â,,¢s ââ,¬Ëœdeadmenââ,¬â,,¢s shoesââ,¬â,,¢. As our numbers have been swelled by an influx from outside the guild who do have the requisite superior gear & experience, it is not a stretch to say that those who are currently not raiding regularly will rarely, if ever get to raid 25-man ICC fully unless we PUG it. Those raiding (more) regularly will always have the edge.
A stream of consciousness flows from your comment ââ,¬Å"Last night was a progression night starting at festergut which requires extreme levels of DPSââ,¬Â
1) To take part in this (the main) Guild-organised activity you need high DPSââ,¬Â¦by my understanding of the term, Iââ,¬â,,¢d call that ââ,¬Å"Hardcoreââ,¬Â more than ââ,¬Å"Socialââ,¬Â.
2) There is a general lack of communication about raiding and what we, as a Guild are trying to achieve. From my perspective, ââ,¬Ëœcoming up through the ranksââ,¬â,,¢, there has been a marked shift in direction over the past 6 months. Less emphasis on the fun and social aspects and more on gear and progression. If that is the way that the majority wish to go, then so be it, but it would be nice to have been given the option to air opinions before it happened, (with the implied necessity to comply now that it is in place).
This leads on to the subject of the incorporation of former Ovo members into the Guild. Donââ,¬â,,¢t get me wrong, I see the influx of new people as a chance to make more friends and as such, is to be welcomed. However, how much consultation or discussion was there with the general membership? Indeed, who was involved with their integration into our ranks? This a discussion probably best left for a separate threadââ,¬Â¦but as I said, this is a stream of consciousness.
Can you clarify please: If you are intending to ââ,¬Ëœallowââ,¬â,,¢ under-geared toons into ICC 25, on the first few bosses, will this generally be on Thursday nights and then better geared toons take on the Lich Kingââ,¬â,,¢s minions on Sundays & Tuesdays?
DFE
Good man. I applaud your team spirit. Nuff said.
Drakelin (Semi)
I am not sure what your points are.
Maypal
Nice concise, echoing the sentiments of DFE. Equal praise is due.
DannagE
Again, good to see the team spirit in you too.
TL (again)
OMG, I actually agree with you! ïÂÅ
Sithy (again)
While FatBob has probably allayed the concerns of those dMr members who have contacted me, some of the questions in my original post remain unanswered:
Are raid spots open until:
- invitations are made? (I just added this one)
- the ââ,¬Ëœofficialââ,¬â,,¢ raid start time?
- the raid actually starts?
- some other time?
I canââ,¬â,,¢t seem to find info on:
- How many officers are there, who are they, and what is their function?
- How many Class Leaders are there, who are they, and what is their function?
Is there a list somewhere, maybe on this website (link please)? If not can one be created please?
Robert
Aka Treekin
Formulating ideas prompted from the posts here I have a few suggestions which may or may not help. Incidentally, some of the same ideas have come from more than one person, independently of each otherââ,¬Â¦great minds think alike?
First:
Where the sign-up for a raid is full or oversubscribed AT THE TIME OF INVITATIONS (20:00) the 25 most eligible players who are online should be invited. Should any decline, those who have signed up and are online but were not invited in the first round should be invited.
Only once these two criteria have been met should others be invited, irrespective of who they are or what gear they have. Those who make the effort to be online on time get rewarded while those who are disorganised or canââ,¬â,,¢t be bothered (making the majority wait for them) donââ,¬â,,¢t get to raid. Obviously exceptions for occasional lateness (notified in advance) could be made.
Second:
Several people have expressed an interest in this ideaââ,¬Â¦Have a second tier of raiders to run through the ââ,¬Ëœlowerââ,¬â,,¢ Northrend raids on Guild raid nights. In order to see all the game, Iââ,¬â,,¢d be quite happy to start at Naxx (or whatever the lowest raid is) and work my way through all the raids to ICC. Thus the lesser-geared members of dMr would be gaining experience, team cohesiveness, and hopefully a bit of loot on the way.
I would ask that an officer or senior raider with experience of these raids come along to guide usââ,¬Â¦maybe a different one every week (no-one wants to be stuck with the noobs indefinitely :)?
If no one else wants to do it, I would be happy to try to organise this with some input from an officer (and with access/tuition on use of the Calendar).
Third:
Can we have a Social Officer (if one does not exist already) to organise events outside core raid nights (eg non-ICC raids), put people together (eg someone wants an enchanter), groups for group quests, etc.? I am NOT volunteering :)
Robert
Aka Treekin
Wal, I think I was arguing that your question was difficult as one is undefinable. Tell me your precise definition of a social raiding guild and I'll tell you whether we are one or not. That was my point, one man's green cheese is another man's turkey.
Are we a social raiding guild? Sure, in the broadest sense. Do you feel more motivated on a Thursday evening if you are a member of a social raiding guild rather than a guild that raids socially? No.
The only thing we are certain of is that we are not 'hardcore'. Is it hardcore to put a raid group together that meets the dps requirements to kill a boss? It is arguably daft to put together a different group.
Open Message to those that expressed disatisfaction to Wal:
Talk to an officer.
If you're an IT-professional and you had a problem with your plumbing you would not talk to a fellow IT-professional to get it fixed, you'd talk a plumber. Do the obvious, behind the scenes whinging is really not helpful. Not a single officer has posted to say they have received a single comment, so stop doing yourself a disservice people, talk to the officers who are the people who can help you - they do not have ESP!
Everyone can of course make a post here to say that they have a question, but it is quicker & easier often to ask the question direct to that person rather than force a public reply. The problem is that some of what you ask is already there for you to read but you did not see it, so I have answered some of this for you. Someone could have told you that had you asked verbally or in a whisper.
I think we are a social raiding guild that really wants to progress. I think if we were hardcore we wouldn't be having these conversations on the forums as we would have a team of 25 going to ICC25 every day until we cleared the place!!! Atleast with a 25man running every day everyone would get a run ;)
Quote from: walrob;307987I canââ,¬â,,¢t seem to find info on:
- How many officers are there, who are they, and what is their function?
- How many Class Leaders are there, who are they, and what is their function?
Is there a list somewhere, maybe on this website (link please)? If not can one be created please?
Robert
Aka Treekin
As I said before, did you not find any of this info in the in-game guild list?
At the top of the forum under 'Community Structure' you can find this link:
http://www.deadmen.co.uk/forum/awards.php
It has all the members of the community with the appropriate roles across all games, not just WoW.
I'd agree that the 'job description' for these unpaid volunteer positions needs to be better defined, but I happen to know it's being looked at in Council at the moment, but don't expect a 5 page summary! I did look for a job-description of the Council members, but tbh I have not seen a single guild site where their job-description is other than 'the guys in-charge'. CL roles might be better clarified for sure though.
Quote from: walrob;307987While FatBob has probably allayed the concerns of those dMr members who have contacted me, some of the questions in my original post remain unanswered:
Are raid spots open until:
- invitations are made? (I just added this one)
- the ââ,¬Ëœofficialââ,¬â,,¢ raid start time?
- the raid actually starts?
- some other time?
I'll answer this by letting you know the mechanism we use to get the raid together. I can't tell you a fixed time as we can't start the raid until we have a viable raid group for the content we are planning to raid but we always plan on having the group ready for the raid start time....
- Approximately 30 minutes before the raid start time the officers get together on Team speak and start looking at who has signed up and what might be needed/what raid options we should look at. Until last week that mainly involved seeing if we had enough people to run a 25 man or should look at one or two ten mans... Thankfully we no longer have that issue and can run 25 mans every official raid night.
- 15 minutes before raid start time the invitations are sent out to everyone online who has signed up or expressed an interest in joining the raid. If they accept they are added to the raid group for the reasons Mal outlined in his post.
- During the next 15 minutes the groups are shuffled around to make sure we have the correct number of tanks/melee/ranged/healers for the raid we are going on. Anyone joining the game during this time who has accepted in the calendar is added to the raid group for consideration.
- Once we have the groups set up and are happy we let the people in groups 6 and 7 of the raid know they are on the subs bench. Groups 1-5 can then enter the instance.
Quote from: walrob;307987I canââ,¬â,,¢t seem to find info on:
- How many officers are there, who are they, and what is their function?
- How many Class Leaders are there, who are they, and what is their function?
Is there a list somewhere, maybe on this website (link please)? If not can one be created please?
Please have a look at this thread (http://www.deadmen.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=28688) as it has details of the class leaders.
You can also see who the officers/class leaders and raiders are from here (http://www.deadmen.co.uk/forum/awards.php?#award32).
Thanks Whitey, that is really useful.
Robert
aka Treekin
Quote from: TeaLeaf;307991Wal, I think I was arguing that your question was difficult as one is undefinable. Tell me your precise definition of a social raiding guild and I'll tell you whether we are one or not. That was my point, one man's green cheese is another man's turkey.
Are we a social raiding guild? Sure, in the broadest sense. Do you feel more motivated on a Thursday evening if you are a member of a social raiding guild rather than a guild that raids socially? No.
The only thing we are certain of is that we are not 'hardcore'. Is it hardcore to put a raid group together that meets the dps requirements to kill a boss? It is arguably daft to put together a different group.
Open Message to those that expressed disatisfaction to Wal:
Talk to an officer.
If you're an IT-professional and you had a problem with your plumbing you would not talk to a fellow IT-professional to get it fixed, you'd talk a plumber. Do the obvious, behind the scenes whinging is really not helpful. Not a single officer has posted to say they have received a single comment, so stop doing yourself a disservice people, talk to the officers who are the people who can help you - they do not have ESP!
Everyone can of course make a post here to say that they have a question, but it is quicker & easier often to ask the question direct to that person rather than force a public reply. The problem is that some of what you ask is already there for you to read but you did not see it, so I have answered some of this for you. Someone could have told you that had you asked verbally or in a whisper.
Right, where should I start. At the beginning I guess.
As I clearly sign my name and character name at the bottom of each post I would appreciate its use. I would also ask that you moderate your replies to be less patronising and antagonistic.
Social, hardcore, progressive or otherwise is open to interpretation. I was asking others to give me their opinion, not have an individual define it for the whole Guild...thus the whole point of asking in a 'public' forum.
It does make sense to assemble the required characters to complete a certain task. That does not answer the query of the direction that the Guild is heading, which has since been answered by others.
While I understand your plumber analogy, it does not hold water in this instance (sorry, couldn't resist). People confided in me precisely because they do not want to go to officers, but wished to express their frustration without appearing to rock the boat. I have no such qualms in seeking information and conferring the dissatisafaction of others.
I assume that this analogy extends as a message to all those who may be dissatisfied, including those who have not directly confided in me as well?
I object to the use of the term 'force'. Is this forum not about discussing dMr issues? Does not asking a series of pertinent questions such as those I posed earlier in this thread, in this multi-user (as opposed to public) forum fall into that category.
I could not whisper people as I didn't know who was responsible for what...see my previous two posts. Thanks to Whitey, I am now in a better position to target any specific questions I may have. However I still intend to post topics of general interest on these forums, despite your objection.
Robert
aka Treekin
Quote from: Maypal;307968The whole point of people sitting out on the first bosses is to allow the people who need the gear from these bosses the chance to get it. You should not think that "hey I'm doing all the work here so I should be in for the whole raid". The people who need the gear should be more of the opinion, that people who would have been in competition for their raid place have stepped aside to allow for them to gear up. People who actively step aside should then not be penalized because they were not involved in the first 3 - 4 bosses. In my opinion they should be applauded for allowing other members to raid / gear up.
ive also stepped out to let others come in that i have no issue with, what i am talking about is when we are killing 5 on 1 night but 1 person steps in for particular boss to get a drop, it would be diffrent if it was on 2 diffrent raid nights, but its not, and its a time breaker also with the summoning the other guy and all, waste of time by my opinion, its fair enough to do just not in the middle of it all and have to switch back and forward
Having people swapping in and out is something we will need to get used to.
We will be trying to help get people geared up on the bosses we have on farm and will also be looking to swap people in and out for specific fights where we need different classes for that fight.
That has to be a better proposition than we were looking at two weeks ago, where we were on the verge of dropping down to a 10 man raiding guild.
Not happy at being quoted out of context.
This has stopped being constructive in my opinion now.
To clarify my position I would not be afraid to contact anyone, and did not whisper Rob as I was afraid.
Rob I'm not saying that, that was stated, but it could be interpretted that way. I would appreciate quotes done to be within the thread not previous ones, i.e specific to the subject matter.
The last thing any sensible raider would do if omitted from the group would be to whisper an officer in the raid, they are already occupied.
Seriously Rob, I used one of three names given in the post. If it offends then I apologise and offer to change your forum name to one you like. If it was the abbreviation of it then colour me sad, I tend to shorten names for ease (many people do) and no offence was meant.
You asked the hardcore/social question and I answered it immediately. However you cannot define what social raiding is, so the question is one that you can only answer by saying we raid for progress, socially and with limited raid time compared to some other guilds. DMR does not need to make a formal declaration as to what we are, we have public statements on this site already as to what we are established to achieve already.
You suggest that we have 5 members who find themselves unable to trust any officer in the guild sufficiently to feel comfortable speaking to them about a problem they have. No member would want to stay in the guild if that were really the case, they would leave to find an environment within which they had trust. OTOH, if they have respect for the guild and its members then might wish to go talk to an officer about an in-guild problem to see if it can be fixed. Members should always feel happy to speak to officers about any problems they have within the guild, the whole dMw community is built on that basis.
Remaining silent, hidden and only having potential complaints aired through a third-party when no detail is provided or substantiated is pretty pointless, it's just muck-throwing. Anyone can throw muck, but I simply do not believe that a member could not find sufficient trust in any single officer to talk to them. If they really feel that way then they should consider their position as DMR cannot implant ESP into its officers to solve problems about which we have no detail.
Quote from: Guild Membership StandardsProblems with Guild Members
If anyone has a problem with a guild member, then the first thing you should do is to talk to that member and explain and try to resolve the issue. If you are unable to do this, let an officer know, either by a whisper in game or by Private Message on the forums. Please give as much detail as you can to the officers so we can take fair and appropriate action.
The guild membership standards are pretty clear here, hence my suggestion to talk to an officer and provide some details. So in answer to your question, yes it does apply to all guild members equally, including the ones who have not spoken to you or any officer. Rocking the boat is trying to deal with it in public initially rather than privately as requested by these standards. If you are unhappy with the word 'force' then I withdraw it, but I felt it described the way avoidance of a private discussion required officer input in a public thread. Of course this does not stifle discussion, but if every problem was dealt with in public all the time then the world would be a pretty negative & depressing place. Why upset people when you can deal with things privately?
Some of my frustration with your responses is down to the fact that you say you were not sure who was responsible for what. Surely a whisper to an officer to ask a question is an easier route? I am amazed that a guild member is unable to figure out that an officer is a good place to start for such information and I did give you that same information in the post before Whitey's reply which you referred to and thanked. There is almost always an officer in-game too, so the opportunity to ask a question is almost endless, so that's why I might have appeared a little sarchastic given your skipping of some (in my opinion) basic information.
If you feel slighted, then you have had an apology from me, but at least you now know the correct way to deal with such problems.
Quote from: Whitey;308012Having people swapping in and out is something we will need to get used to.
We will be trying to help get people geared up on the bosses we have on farm and will also be looking to swap people in and out for specific fights where we need different classes for that fight.
That has to be a better proposition than we were looking at two weeks ago, where we were on the verge of dropping down to a 10 man raiding guild.
That makes a lot of sense. Thank you for clarifying the position.
Robert
aka Treekin
Quote from: Sithvid;308013Not happy at being quoted out of context
If I have misquoted or misinterpreted what you intended to convey then I am truely sorry. My intention is to clarify the raiding position and confer the frustration of several dMr members, including myself. I have no agenda other than this. Could you be more specific so I may remedy this please?
Robert
aka Treekin
Just some simple observations. I have been in a number of guilds and have to say this one is a joy. The officers in my view are fair helpful and do a great job. The raids are well organised and hence progress is made, you only have to PUG a few to see the difference. The new members joining have added some serious DPS and have allowed the guild to move on. I see the guild as a team effort, a group of friends. On the days im not in a raid its nice to be part of the progress and if im not good enough for the raid then I d rather work hard and get my dps up to get in next time. I certainly dont want to be carried but would rather contribute fully to the raid. I would hope we can all move on, appreciate what we have, the guild is operating in the high end content which is great to be part of.
Tony
Quote from: TeaLeaf;308014Seriously Rob, I used one of three names given in the post. If it offends then I apologise and offer to change your forum name to one you like. If it was the abbreviation of it then colour me sad, I tend to shorten names for ease (many people do) and no offence was meant.
You asked the hardcore/social question and I answered it immediately. However you cannot define what social raiding is, so the question is one that you can only answer by saying we raid for progress, socially and with limited raid time compared to some other guilds. DMR does not need to make a formal declaration as to what we are, we have public statements on this site already as to what we are established to achieve already.
You suggest that we have 5 members who find themselves unable to trust any officer in the guild sufficiently to feel comfortable speaking to them about a problem they have. No member would want to stay in the guild if that were really the case, they would leave to find an environment within which they had trust. OTOH, if they have respect for the guild and its members then might wish to go talk to an officer about an in-guild problem to see if it can be fixed. Members should always feel happy to speak to officers about any problems they have within the guild, the whole dMw community is built on that basis.
Remaining silent, hidden and only having potential complaints aired through a third-party when no detail is provided or substantiated is pretty pointless, it's just muck-throwing. Anyone can throw muck, but I simply do not believe that a member could not find sufficient trust in any single officer to talk to them. If they really feel that way then they should consider their position as DMR cannot implant ESP into its officers to solve problems about which we have no detail.
The guild membership standards are pretty clear here, hence my suggestion to talk to an officer and provide some details. So in answer to your question, yes it does apply to all guild members equally, including the ones who have not spoken to you or any officer. Rocking the boat is trying to deal with it in public initially rather than privately as requested by these standards. If you are unhappy with the word 'force' then I withdraw it, but I felt it described the way avoidance of a private discussion required officer input in a public thread. Of course this does not stifle discussion, but if every problem was dealt with in public all the time then the world would be a pretty negative & depressing place. Why upset people when you can deal with things privately?
Some of my frustration with your responses is down to the fact that you say you were not sure who was responsible for what. Surely a whisper to an officer to ask a question is an easier route? I am amazed that a guild member is unable to figure out that an officer is a good place to start for such information and I did give you that same information in the post before Whitey's reply which you referred to and thanked. There is almost always an officer in-game too, so the opportunity to ask a question is almost endless, so that's why I might have appeared a little sarchastic given your skipping of some (in my opinion) basic information.
If you feel slighted, then you have had an apology from me, but at least you now know the correct way to deal with such problems.
I would like to begin by stating that this post is my opinion only. No inference should be made that this is in any way definitive or absolute truth, although it is based upon facts as I see them. See my other post which includes my philosophy on the nature, and perception, of truth.
TL - in my opinion, you seem to have made this personal. By airing personal attacks against me in this forum, you have contradicted your own point about initially confining individual issues to discussion with that person. While I would not normally respond in kind, I feel obliged to in this instance.
No offence was taken by which name you used. I simply requested that you use either my given name or main character name (or abbreviation thereof).
You clearly do not understand the thrust of my case.
There is no clear definition of Social, Hardcore, etc.; thatââ,¬â,,¢s the point!
Each ââ,¬Ëœcategoryââ,¬â,,¢ is subjective within a broad spectrum. I sought, and still seek, the opinions of others as to how they viewed the direction of the Guild, not a definitive directive from the Guild itself, although that is useful. There is no firm definition, just opinion; I do not understand why you have a problem with this relatively simple concept, or why you continue to argue around it.
Given that this is seeking the opinion of the wider Guild members, this is exactly the place to do so, as opposed to whispering or PMing everyone. If you do know of a more efficient, but equally transparent, method of communication than debating in this forum, I would be only too pleased to listen to your suggestion.
People confiding in me is not a matter of ââ,¬Ëœtrustingââ,¬â,,¢ officers, nor lack of respect for the Guild.
It is divisive, presumptuous, and arrogant to suggest otherwise. I suggest that, your comment is highly insensitive and indicative of the contempt that you apparently have towards fellow dMr members.
Again you have not grasped the concept of what I am attempting to convey. Indeed, I would go as far as to say that, given you are clearly in possession of a reasonable intellect, that this is a deliberate manipulation of my intent; an attempt to discredit (rather than counter) my reasoning and to further your own argument. It is not constructive.
On a personal note, I would like to state here that I feel that the Guild is, in general, well run by dedicated people and that most people are happy to help each other where they can.
All those I have spoken to (and more importantly, listened to) in the wider dMr community (whatever their stance on this issue) are generally happy with the other members of dMr including the Guild Officers and Class Leaders, but some have reservations on this particular occasion, on a specific issue.
Different personalities have different ways of expressing themselves; each to their own. Some may not be able to express themselves to convey their thoughts in an eloquent fashion. Some may be shy. However it is more likely that, as I expressed previously, once something is in place, most would rather express discontent among their friends than risk publicly speaking out. It is human nature to want to conform; this behaviour can be found in all spheres of society, such as the workplace, school, or other societies and organisations. Have you not experienced this among others in your sphere of friends and associates? Never grumbled about your boss (or had subordinates grumble about you)?
The premise is simple: When peoplesââ,¬â,,¢ expectations are not met, it results in discontent. It can be argued that change management is an art in itself.
Again you return to how this debate is conducted so feel obliged to repeat myself. Given that this is a Guild-wide issue (note, not ââ,¬Ëœproblemââ,¬â,,¢), individuals speaking to individual officers is wholly inefficient and by its very nature, secretive. Do you not think that the matter of finding a resolution to Guild-wide issues is best conducted in an open forum, where all can freely lend their opinion? These ââ,¬Ëœgrowing painsââ,¬â,,¢ affect everyone, so why do you stubbornly and repeatedly object to public discussion?
TL wrote:
ââ,¬Å"Remaining silent, hidden and only having potential complaints aired through a third-party when no detail is provided or substantiated is pretty pointless, it's just muck-throwing. ââ,¬Å"
How dare you! I strongly object to your inference that this is a fabrication or it is to further my own personal agenda or sew dissent. It is sad that you stoop to such depths. I suggest that you utilise this ploy as you are unable to further your own argument in a constructive manner. Indeed I see nothing new or constructive in your post. Simple repetition does not add verisimilitude to your clearly personal issues with me, nor your apparent desire to stifle debate.
As clearly stated in my original post, I seek clarification and information. Looking back at previous posts in this thread, it is clear that it was you who was mainly responsible for perverting this debate out of all proportion, far exceeding the original intent.
Again you refer to private discussion by quoting from dMr guidelines. Where an individual has an issue which pertains to him or her exclusively, I agree that one-on-one consultation is most appropriate. I donââ,¬â,,¢t know how to say this any differently, so I will repeat it yet again:
This is a Guild-wide issue that affects all members of dMr who wish to raid. Use of a forum which is accessible to all members of dMr is the ideal place to air such issues.
I still do not understand your desire to stifle (what was initially) a constructive and healthy debate and request for information, which is potentially of interest to all. Nor can I fathom your inability to grasp this concept, or why you object to it.
If I may be so presumptuousââ,¬Â¦
As I understand it, people are unhappy that the previous raiding arrangements have been changed without adequate communication or consultation. How much more detail do you feel this discussion warrants?
Why are you frustrated with my lack of knowledge? I requested information so I did know who to go to; again as expressed in a previous post.
I cannot contact someone about who I should contact when I donââ,¬â,,¢t know who to contact. This is another simple concept which you seem unable to grasp.
Yes the guild membership standards are clear in the passage that you quoted. ââ,¬Å"If anyone has a problem with a Guild member then the first thing you should do is talk to that memberââ,¬Â¦Ã¢â,¬Â
In this case, no individual has a problem with any other individual. It is some of the Guild raiders who are disgruntled with the way raiding is currently being conducted, which has subsequently been constructively covered by others. This is not an individual issue but a Guild-wide issue which is best served by a Guild-wide debate.
I did thank Whitey for providing useful information and am grateful to all who contributed constructively to the debate. As this debate was already in a public forum, why would I then contact an officer when the issues had been covered and the information that I requested had been made available? To what end? How would that benefit anyone? I now continue this debate only to reply to those who have constructively furthered the issue (as is polite) and to defend myself against a personal attack.
In short, you have contradicted yourself by expressing personal issues in a public forum while conveying little or no information and not furthering the debate in a constructive manner. I see nothing but repetition, a desire to stifle debate, and a personal attack in your post.
If you have a shred of decency, please make an unreserved apology, without caveats, for this personal attack and inferred slight as to the nature of the integrity of members of the wider dMr community. (Apologies for the tautology; I feel it necessary for emphasis). I welcome constructive criticism and helpful suggestions levelled at me, as I have made suggestions in an attempt to ameliorate the current issue in an earlier post. However, I find this unwarranted attack to be unacceptable.
In future, please refrain from personal attacks (either in a public forum or privately), on myself or any other member of dMr or the wider dMw community, as you have done here and (as I have recently found out) have done in the past.
Robert
Aka Treekin
I think you need to re-read the thread and your own comments as I have not attacked you or made this personal, I simply responded to your post, provided information (for which I was not thanked) and explained why I felt my points were still valid and why a different route was sought. There is nothing personal in the thread until you made such comments.
Your 'case' is at best ill-defined & unclear, at worst a non-entity. This is not a court Walrob, this is a forum and a guild with procedures. Take a specific to an officer please if you have a problem.
I re-state my point, if anyone feels unable to speak to any single officer about a problem then you are in the wrong guild and you should know how to solve that problem. The vast bulk of the members are happy here and nobody has gquit and nobody has made any comments to officers other than you in this forum Walrob.
You have written a lot and I am not going to bother to reply further to it Walrob. You took simple answers and then tried to say you were on a crusade or making a 'case' for an anonymous group of people. If you have a problem talk to the officers about it first as per the rules.
If you need information ask an officer.
If you are not sure who is an officer please look at the guild list.
If you have a problem, talk to an officer about it.
I am now instructing you to take this to a PM or a discussion with an officer as you have ignored the polite request several times now and I do not wish this to develop into a flame war. Please do not ignore this final request.
I'd just like to give my answer to a question that has been mentioned at least a couple of times in this thread.
Are we "Social" or "Hard Core"?
My answer is that we are a "social, raiding guild" and not a "social raiding guild". I'm sure the majority of the people raiding in DMR want to see the new content before the next expansion and in order to do that we need a strong raiding group to make progress. I wouldn't call us "Hard Core" as hard core guilds raid 5 or 6 nights a week for 4 or 5 hours at a time but it is serious raiding.
OK having read this with my moderator hat on enough is enough.
Walrob, take a step back and breathe in deeply, several times. Whilst I know nothing about the world of pixies in which you reside, this thread has evolved from a couple of simple questions into a diatribe.
By the tenor of your posts I can see youââ,¬â,,¢re bristling and I can see youââ,¬â,,¢re upset but youââ,¬â,,¢ve stepped over the mark of acceptable posting. Your recent posts make it patently obvious that youââ,¬â,,¢re spoiling for an argument.
You bandy words around like patronising and antagonistic but please, look at your post from 1.32pm ...... it fits those adjectives perfectly. You seem to have overlooked the fact that he apologises to you for any offence caused but ironically you find that, in itself, offensive.
You have the answers you were seeking namely:
Quote from: walrob;307987I canââ,¬â,,¢t seem to find info on:
- How many officers are there, who are they, and what is their function?
- How many Class Leaders are there, who are they, and what is their function?
Is there a list somewhere, maybe on this website (link please)? If not can one be created please?
A list of Community Admins can be found here (http://www.deadmen.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=9513).
A list of Game Admins can be found here (http://www.deadmen.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?p=285546#post285546).
Whitey has answered your question on the raid criteria (http://www.deadmen.co.uk/forum/showpost.php?p=307994&postcount=20).
If you have a problem then please, as repeatedly mentioned above, talk to an officer.
As far as Iââ,¬â,,¢m concerned you have your answer and have an avenue for airing future discontent. You yourself say that you'll use the forum for post topics of general interest. Fine, no one has a problem with that. What I do have a problem about is you, or anyone else, using it as a platform for a rant.
Quote from: Penfold;308048OK having read this with my moderator hat on enough is enough.
Walrob, take a step back and breathe in deeply, several times. Whilst I know nothing about the world of pixies in which you reside, this thread has evolved from a couple of simple questions into a diatribe.
By the tenor of your posts I can see youââ,¬â,,¢re bristling and I can see youââ,¬â,,¢re upset but youââ,¬â,,¢ve stepped over the mark of acceptable posting. Your recent posts make it patently obvious that youââ,¬â,,¢re spoiling for an argument.
You bandy words around like patronising and antagonistic but please, look at your post from 1.32pm ...... it fits those adjectives perfectly. You seem to have overlooked the fact that he apologises to you for any offence caused but ironically you find that, in itself, offensive.
You have the answers you were seeking namely:
A list of Community Admins can be found here (http://www.deadmen.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=9513):
A list of Game Admins can be found here (http://www.deadmen.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?p=285546#post285546):
Whitey has answered your question on the raid criteria (http://www.deadmen.co.uk/forum/showpost.php?p=307994&postcount=20).
If you have a problem then, as repeatedly been mentioned above, talk to an officer.
As far as Iââ,¬â,,¢m concerned you have your answer and have an avenue for airing future discontent. You yourself say that you'll use the forum for post topics of general interest. Fine, no one has a problem with that. What I do have a problem about is you, or anyone else, using it as a platform for a rant.
Thank you for your intervention. However, I feel it uneven and one-sided. Lets start with "world of pixies"? How derogatory!
To make several inflamatory comments and then apologise at the end in no regard counters the comments in the same post.
I am in no way spoinilng for an arguement, neither am I bristling. I am merely defending myself in kind. If treated with respect I treat people with respect, as I have shown in previous posts. If disrespected, I defend myself with vigour. Am I not entitled to do so?
If I am slated in a public forum, I expect the right of reply, or does this not pertain to this forum?
My reply to TL's latest attack has been written. If you believe in equality and the right of reply I request that you allow me to post it. If you find equality and right of reply objectionable, then feel free to do what you must.
I would much rather spend my time playing WoW rather than defending myself against those who describe issues with disgruntled Guild members as a 'non-entity'.
Robert
aka Treekin
All right, I'm not playing WoW anymore and I suppose that makes my opinion count less, but I do have enough experience of both the game, guild politics (as class leader as well as officer, mind you) and forum policies to value transparency. Serioiusly, I haven't been able to *not* follow this thread...
Are DMR members only allowed to write about candy floss and rose petals on the forum and anything else has to be discussed in private with officers?
I understand this thread has become somewhat of a personal vendetta between two people, but it wasn't its original purpose. It was initiated politely and with no foul language or accusations. Sure, it wasn't about sunshine and pretty hedgehogs, but it was not even close to offensive.
For what it's worth, Robert, you have my fullest support and sympathy when it comes to honest questions and open discussions, as long as they're sensible, and I really think that's how it all started out. I'm really sorry they're trying to censor you. Now, this is not my fight, but man, I have to take a stand for freedom of speech in general.
Nina
a.k.a. ... Nina
Quote from: walrob;308050Thank you for your intervention. However, I feel it uneven and one-sided. Lets start with "world of pixies"? How derogatory!
Oh boy.....
Derogatory? I don't think so when it's a phrase coined by our very own pixie-meisters :flirty::
Quote from: Tanales;307649welcome fellow pixies :)
Quote from: Soon Jung;249291... I DO decide to return to the world of pixies and fairies, this is obviously the place to go. Where do I sign? :narnar:
Quote from: TeaLeaf;244808........ Sorry Ron for introducing pixies to DMR :tongue:
Quote from: Blunt;156445welcome pixies elves and kindred spirits:dmw:
Quote from: Bob;165518I just think DuVel fears us pixies :norty:
(And any one of numerous others). It's an in-house thing but please, by all means, feel free to take offence at it if you so wish. :rolleyes: :wink:
You asked for your right to reply and I think you've made your point........
Nina, it's not about censorship - far from it. I've never played WoW (although I would have loved to) and it's not about WoW, it's about stopping the 'personal vendetta' as you call it. So long as things are kept impersonal and generic then happy days. This hasn't, it's degenerated into pointless mud-slinging. I didn't make the rules about going via your class leader - that's a DMR thing.
Robert asked a question, the question has been answered. The rest kinda went downhill.
I have no idea about the vagaries of WoW and how raids are formed or who does what. That's not my job. My job is to keep the forum tidy and on track in line with our Membership Standards and AUP.
Oh, and I also help organise the LANs .... so if any of you pixies feel you can drag yourselves off Aszune then you'll be most welcome to mix with us petrolheads and soldierboys. Hell, I'll even buy the first round*
(*while stocks last ) :)
Right, i've sat here long enough in a neutral place looking at this topic trying not to pick sides, altough people know what side i'd be on right?
Can we please for the love of all that is holy
LOCK THE THREAD AND MOVE ON
And yes, Caps makes it true
Quote from: PenfoldWalrob, take a step back and breathe in deeply, several times.
Quote from: Penfold;308052Nina, it's not about censorship - far from it. I've never played WoW (although I would have loved to) and it's not about WoW, it's about stopping the 'personal vendetta' as you call it. So long as things are kept impersonal and generic then happy days. This hasn't, it's degenerated into pointless mud-slinging.
Maybe you should make direct your request to both parts then and not make it one-sided. Otherwise it may well be understood as just that - censorship.
Jim, the solution is rarely to silence the lambs... perhaps control them, but not silence them.
PICTURE UNRELATED..
(http://wafflehood.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/masta.jpg)
:narnar:
I followed this and im happy with the topic and questions asked.. I'm not so happy with the tone of it just not enough smileys for my taste
The ethos behind us is to make things as fair as possible and the officers in my eyes do this very well. It's not perfect keeping all people happy all the time is never going to happen tho we get darn close
So... if you have a problem and nobody else can help call the A Team ... or failing that im always about to point people in the right direction
So we WILL keep the forums clean and constructive and on topic DannagE
Just trying to lighten the mood in here abit JAS, seems to be alot of gloom in here :(
Plus im at work bored senseless!
Quote from: JonnyAppleSeed;308071I followed this and im happy with the topic and questions asked.. I'm not so happy with the tone of it just not enough smileys for my taste
The ethos behind us is to make things as fair as possible and the officers in my eyes do this very well. It's not perfect keeping all people happy all the time is never going to happen tho we get darn close
So... if you have a problem and nobody else can help call the A Team ... or failing that im always about to point people in the right direction
So we WILL keep the forums clean and constructive and on topic DannagE
Thanks Jas for your input.
I always maintain to keep it clean. However, when attacked so veheremently, I will always mount a vigourous defence, as is my right. No vulgar slang, no unfounded accusations, only defence with my opinion and facts as I see them.
As an adult, no one has the right to to speak to me in such a manner as TL did initially and his subsequent reply was even worse. I strongly object to censorship of any kind as has clearly happened here.
As ridiculous as I feel this is, I (publicly) and formally make a request to both you (Jas) and our Chief Mod to allow me to reply to what is (by any definition) a highly inflamatory post by TL - a supposedly Senoir Officer in dMw. In the spirit of fairness, I would like the right of reply.
Please would you post an umambiguous reply as to whether I am permitted a right of reply or I am to be censored.
I await your decision with great anticipation.
Robert
aka Treekin
Re: PICTURE UNRELATED..
Love it :-)
Robert
aka Treekin
I've been told that my reply is one-sided. Sorry, not intentional if that's the way it's viewed.
Perhaps I'm being overly obtuse but I see a thread which is ok (although slightly acerbic at times) until 10.11pm last night when it starts to goes downhill. It then goes really downhill today.
Anyway, I stepped in when I thought this thread had run its course and had just degenerated into a pointless verbal battle. That's my call. Was I one-sided? who knows... however, imo, I called the main protagonist as I saw it.
Either way, if it helps to balance things out then I'll make it clear that I'm telling everyone (and I mean EVERYONE) to henceforth and forthwith (heh, it's catching), keep threads generic and not personal be it TL, Rob, or anyone else.
I'll leave it to JAS to reply to you as I don't want to impinge on his turf more than I have already and besides I have to go to hospital tomorrow for an operation so may not be around for a bit (or permanently if it goes tits up).
PEN
PS. If nothing else this thread is a great display of word-smithery on both sides and should either of you require copy-writing jobs then please let me know.... we could use you. :) Hell, I've got a degree in English and Classical Studies (including Latin and Greek) and have worked in Press Communications for 15 years and even I'm struggling with some of the language.................:flirty: :worship:
PPS. Is calling WoW'ers 'pixies' really derogatory? I'm actually really interested to know. If only they could find a way to put inflections on the written word eh - would save an awful lot of grief.
Quote from: Sithvid;308013Not happy at being quoted out of context.
This has stopped being constructive in my opinion now.
To clarify my position I would not be afraid to contact anyone, and did not whisper Rob as I was afraid.
Rob I'm not saying that, that was stated, but it could be interpretted that way. I would appreciate quotes done to be within the thread not previous ones, i.e specific to the subject matter.
The last thing any sensible raider would do if omitted from the group would be to whisper an officer in the raid, they are already occupied.
I can't seem to find this or anything similar in this thread (probably being blind). Can you give the time/date of the post please?
Thanks
Robert
aka Treekin
Hmmm:g::g:
Dannage is right Tis time to lighten the mood of all and have a Group Pixie Hug, Also Penn now you have admitted you would have liked to try the game i say we make you a Honorary Pixie!
so
/HUG
cheers
Bell