Dead Men Walking

dMw Chit Chat => The Beer Bar => Technology Section => Topic started by: Penfold on September 09, 2010, 05:08:12 PM

Title: PC Time
Post by: Penfold on September 09, 2010, 05:08:12 PM
So Zoots has inspired me to get a new PC and I'm breaking the mould  which is rare for me and going for something other than a dell :rolleyes:

That PC Specialist place looks neat so I've built a machine there but  need you wonderfully intelligent people to confirm it's all OK. It's things like the cooling fan and stuff which I have no idea about.

Is this OK? Is there anything wrong with this? Am I missing something? (in addition to the below I'll use my own XI-FI Extreme sound card)

(http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h284/mpppen/pc.jpg)

REALLY appreciate the help .... thanks :D

PEN
Title: PC Time
Post by: Sneakytiger on September 09, 2010, 05:17:16 PM
only thing i would say m8 is get a bigger psu i have a ati hd 6850 gfx card and i had to upgrade my psu i have a 1000w psu but anything from a 600w-1000w should surfice.
Title: PC Time
Post by: Tutonic on September 09, 2010, 05:55:29 PM
Agreed, 450W is pushing your luck with these new 4-series cards - they're thirsty beasts! Upgrading to a 600W should give you enough, and wouldn't cost much more.

I'd also reccomend getting a RAID set up. It means spending on a 2nd hard-drive, but drives dead cheap these days and the benefits are pretty huge (either drive failure protection, or uber-speed depending on how you set it up).

Don't worry about cooling fans. The i-series CPU's aren't that hot, even if you overclock them you can use the stock cooler without any problems.
Title: PC Time
Post by: Penfold on September 09, 2010, 07:22:52 PM
Thanks chaps

I may well go raid but only specified one drive as I have a couple of 1tb sata drivers here which I'll also add into the machine.

OK I'll go for a 600watter.

Is there anything else? Is the Motherboard OK and processer etc all OK? I'm happy to spend a bit more money if it's worth pushing to something else!

(I may also swap out the C: HDD for a SSD one. Not huge but maybe 120gb or something and then use the extra HDD's for data.)

Thanks
Title: PC Time
Post by: lionheart on September 09, 2010, 08:40:35 PM
SSD = Massive Goodness.

That is all.
Title: PC Time
Post by: Penfold on September 09, 2010, 10:30:17 PM
OK thanks chaps.

I've had a couple more comments - particularly about the Mobo so here's pahse II

(http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h284/mpppen/pc2.jpg)

Better all round?

You'll notice I haven't included a graphics card as yet.

I presume my Geforce8800GTX will not longer cut the mustard for this machine?

If not then my revamp is here:

(http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h284/mpppen/pc3.jpg)



So.

1. Incumbent GeForce 880GTX or not?
2. Anything wrong with the rest (bearing in mind I'll add my own 1no. or 2no. 1TB sata drives and xi_fi Gamer sound card

I guess I'm a little disappinted that it hasn't got e-sata but I think I can solve that by one of these (http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/Akasa-ESATA-45-EX-Internal-SATA-to-External-ESATA-PCI-backplate-adaptor).

Again, thanks and If I can get a consensus I'll order it on the morrow.
Title: PC Time
Post by: TeaLeaf on September 09, 2010, 11:27:09 PM
8800GTX will most definitely not do the job.  Upgrade it to something current and in budget.

Personally I'd still add more PSU, 1k is where I sit atm mainly because you never know what you'll be adding to the case in future months and rail stability is *all* on most systems.

And as Lion said - SSD's rock.  I have aCrucial C300 256GB SSD and it is blindingly fast and makes a massive & noticeable difference to system response in daily use.  Combined with your selected SATA III mobo you'd see monster performance gains with an SSD installed.
Title: PC Time
Post by: Penfold on September 10, 2010, 11:56:52 AM
Ok thanks again.

With Gandy's help I've revised the spec and it is now thus:


(http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h284/mpppen/pc4.jpg)I take on board the comments above

Any last comments on this beast.

Thankyou
Title: PC Time
Post by: Gandalf on September 10, 2010, 12:06:08 PM
One tweak, stick the Titan Fenrir on as the CPU cooler. Far better than the stock intel coolers which really are not that good.
Title: PC Time
Post by: Penfold on September 10, 2010, 12:15:30 PM
Great done and done.

Thanks all.
Title: PC Time
Post by: lionheart on September 10, 2010, 01:19:22 PM
Do you know what make the GTX460 is?  Some can be better than others with regards cooling and noise.
Title: PC Time
Post by: Penfold on September 10, 2010, 02:06:11 PM
good question. No idea. I'll ask them to see if they know.
Title: PC Time
Post by: lionheart on September 10, 2010, 02:12:16 PM
If you get the choice go with either Gigabyte or MSI.
Title: PC Time
Post by: Penfold on September 10, 2010, 03:10:11 PM
It's a Palit brand ! ? ! ?
Title: PC Time
Post by: lionheart on September 10, 2010, 03:39:25 PM
Heres (http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18163265&page=2) a thread on OCUK about the GTX460, it seems to say that Palit is one of the worse with regard cooler quality and noise.

The thread is long but the Palit is mentioned early on.

Maybe you can upgrade the brand?
Title: PC Time
Post by: Penfold on September 10, 2010, 03:57:49 PM
Thanks for the heads-up.

I'll just buy it without the graphics card and then source it from elsewhere

The price on PC Specialist is Ã,£175  SCAN  (http://www.scan.co.uk/Product.aspx?WebProductID=1272322&source=froogle)are doing it for Ã,£176 so job done.

Cheers for the heads-up
Title: PC Time
Post by: lionheart on September 10, 2010, 04:01:17 PM
I think Oldie has a Gigabyte one, may be worth getting his opinion on it.
Title: PC Time
Post by: Zootoxin on September 21, 2010, 05:29:58 PM
Hey Pen, what spec did you buy in the end and how much did it cost?
Title: PC Time
Post by: Penfold on September 21, 2010, 07:45:38 PM
I haven't gotten round to doing it yet tbh. I think it came in at about Ã,£1300 in the end.

I still haven't quite decided on the final spec but have ordered the graphics card so have started :).
Title: PC Time
Post by: Penfold on September 23, 2010, 10:09:42 PM
The card is great. Apparently I need to o/c it so I may be asking someone to tell me how to do it if it's easy and worthwhile.

I also bought a 120gb SSD and I can't believe the difference it makes. I'm trialling it in my office machine and opened the complete CS4 suite of indesign, photoshop and illustrator almost as quick as I could press the buttons - amazing.
Title: PC Time
Post by: Gorion on September 29, 2010, 10:42:10 PM
Pen, don't upgrade anything yet.

The new sandybridge cpu's from intel should be out shortly(Q1 2011) and as usual there will be quite a price drop on current mainstream hardware.
Title: PC Time
Post by: Penfold on September 29, 2010, 10:58:17 PM
Good to know, thanks.

I've only bought  the GTX460 and a 120gb SSD as yet but am not desperately desperate to upgrade so don't mind waiting a few months. Nice one.
Title: PC Time
Post by: Penfold on November 03, 2010, 05:10:57 PM
I've moved back from Dewey's thread toi this

Can someone please double check this spec for me:

https://secure.scan.co.uk/aspnet/Shop/SavedBasket/Show.aspx?Id=f7772716e6f347dcaedf7f6d9455400d

[ATTACH=CONFIG]609[/ATTACH]


Thanks ! :)
Title: PC Time
Post by: lionheart on November 03, 2010, 07:00:19 PM
Nice, I like all of that.

Whats your graphics card?

One thing I might add, I would imagine that you intend to over clock the processor to 4 Gig? Its insanely easy and makes the processor noticeably quicker, if so then I would get 2 of the apache fans and mount them in a push/pull config,really improves the cooling performance with a negligible increase in noise as the fans are virtually silent. You will need to get a fan mounting kit with the cooler as well, its an extra set of the wires used to attach the extra apache fan to the cooler.


Ok now just seen that its coming pre-overclocked.

And that you've got a 460.
Title: PC Time
Post by: Gandalf on November 04, 2010, 08:03:58 AM
Sweet system, and I agree with lionheart. Get another fan to do a push pull arrangement on the cooler and that cpu will easily hit 4ghz :D Only minor addition, add this (http://www.scan.co.uk/products/arctic-silver-5-thermal-compound-for-cpu-and-chipset-coolers-35-gram)
Title: PC Time
Post by: Dewey on November 04, 2010, 08:39:32 AM
Is there any reason to get the WD HD instead of a samsung F3 (currently on offer from scan) and v.cheap at Ã,£41 inc vat?
 
I don't know if you'll play many games on this pc Pen? If so its well worth getting an extra gtx 460 it literally doubles the fps.
Title: PC Time
Post by: Penfold on November 04, 2010, 10:53:29 AM
Thanks guys.

Extra fan added and I guess they'll know about the push pull arrangment on the cooler thingy?

No, no reason on the HDD Dewey so I'll checkout the F3 and also going with two GTX460's.

Thanks
Title: PC Time
Post by: Dewey on November 04, 2010, 12:54:14 PM
Just one final thing re your system Pen....
 
Its going to be awsomely quick mate!
 
Quote from: Penfold;318986Thanks guys.

Extra fan added and I guess they'll know about the push pull arrangment on the cooler thingy?

No, no reason on the HDD Dewey so I'll checkout the F3 and also going with two GTX460's.

Thanks
Title: PC Time
Post by: Penfold on November 04, 2010, 09:56:11 PM
Quote from: Dewey;318977Is there any reason to get the WD HD instead of a samsung F3 (currently on offer from scan) and v.cheap at Ã,£41 inc vat?

I don't know if you'll play many games on this pc Pen? If so its well worth getting an extra gtx 460 it literally doubles the fps.

Isn't the WD a lot faster at 6 GB/s? and therefore better to stripe??

[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]                              1TB (1000 GB) Western Digital Caviar Black Hard Drive - HDD
1TB Western Digital WD1002FAEX Caviar Black, SATA 6Gb/s, 7200rpm, 64MB Cache, 8 ms

                            1TB Samsung Spinpoint F3 Hard Drive - HDD HD103SJ
1TB Samsung HD103SJ Spinpoint F3, SATA 3Gb/s, 7200rpm, 32MB Cache, 8.9 ms, NCQ, OEM
Title: PC Time
Post by: Penfold on November 04, 2010, 10:26:00 PM
Finally, I must begoingmad but when I do the same spec at PC Specialist it's Ã,£300 cheaper.

Can someone spot a blindly obvious thing I've missed? :blink:



Case
COOLERMASTER CM690 MKII ADVANCED CASE
Processor (CPU)
IntelÃ,® Coreâ„¢i7 Quad Core Processor i7-950 (3.06GHz) 4.8GTs/8MB Cache
Motherboard
ASUSÃ,® P6X58D-E: DDR3, USB 3.0, SATA 6.0GB/s, 3-Way SLI
Memory (RAM)
6GB KINGSTON HYPER-X T1 TRI-DDR3 2000MHz, X.M.P (3 x 2GB KIT)
Graphics Card
NONE, I ALREADY HAVE A GRAPHICS CARD
Memory - 1st Hard Disk
120GB OCZ VERTEX 2 SATA II 2.5" SSD (upto 285MB/sR | 275MB/sW)
2nd Hard Disk
1TB WD CAVIAR BLACK  WD1002FAEX, SATA 6 Gb/s, 64MB CACHE (7200rpm)
1st DVD/BLU-RAY Drive
24x DUAL LAYER DVD WRITER Ã,±R/Ã,±RW/RAM
Power Supply & Case Cooling
CORSAIR 850W PSU (TX850) 80+ ULTRA QUIET (Ã,£99)
Processor Cooling
TITAN FENRIR EVO EXTREME HEATPIPE CPU COOLER (Ã,£39)
Sound Card
ONBOARD 8 CHANNEL (7.1) HIGH DEF AUDIO (AS STANDARD)
Network Facilities
ONBOARD 10/100/1000 GIGABIT LAN PORT
USB Options
6 x USB 2.0 PORTS @ BACK PANEL (MIN 2 FRONT PORTS) AS STANDARD
Operating System
NO OPERATING SYSTEM REQUIRED
Office Software
NO OFFICE SOFTWARE
Anti-Virus
NO ANTI-VIRUS SOFTWARE
Warranty
3 Year Standard Warranty (1 Month Collect & Return, 1 Year Parts, 3 Year Labour)
Delivery
STANDARD INSURED DELIVERY TO UK MAINLAND (MON-FRI)
Build Time
Standard Build - Approximately 9 to 13 working days
    Quantity
1
Price: Ã,£1,071.00 including VAT and delivery.

against scans:

3XS Intel X58 Core i7 - Custom Series
Coolermaster CM 690 II Advanced Black Mid Tower Computer Case 32061 VAT Ã,£228.83 Company:
Corsair HX Series 850W Modular Power Supply (PSU) 27644
Asus P6X58D-E Intel X58 1366 Motherboard 33069
CPU Ã,£199.17 1 Intel CPU i7 950 Quad Core Processor 27179
CPU Cooler Ã,£39.89 1 Prolimatech Intel Copper CPU Cooler 29054
Corsair Memory XMS3 6GB DDR3 PC3-12800 (1600) Triple Channel Desktop 25348
1 1TB (1000 GB) Western Digital Caviar Black Hard Drive - HDD 32170 Reference Number:
1 OCZ 120GB Vertex 2 SSD - Solid State Drive 34716 Salesperson:
Optical Drive 1 Ã,£14.89 1 Pioneer DVD Writer, DVR-S18LBK, SATA, Black, Retail 29304 Direct Dial
Akasa Apache Black Ultra Silent Fan HDB bearing PWM fan *OEM Fan Only 33444
Akasa Apache Black Ultra Silent Fan HDB bearing PWM fan *OEM Fan Only 33444
Thermalright Chill Factor 3 33983
Cables Ã,£0.00 1 30cm Akasa 8 pin to 8 pin Extension Cable 17842
Cables Ã,£0.00 1 30cm Akasa Fan Cable 4 pin to 4 pin for x3 Fans 25096
Title: PC Time
Post by: lionheart on November 04, 2010, 11:12:25 PM
Different Power supply, Different Ram , Pre-overclocked and a 3 year warranty seem to be the main differences, not sure that adds up to Ã,£300 though.

And a slower DVD Drive.
Title: PC Time
Post by: Penfold on November 05, 2010, 09:15:29 AM
Yeah it's weird. I'd rather go with Scan so I can bump the order up to Ã,£2k but there's little point if it's costing me the Ã,£350 VAT saving.

Perculiar!
Title: PC Time
Post by: Penfold on November 05, 2010, 10:16:09 AM
Update:

When you put the components into Scan directly it comes out a lot  cheaper. I queried this and they told me they add on a Ã,£150 + vat build charge and Ã,£35 delivery. :eyebrow:

PC Specialist prices include that - that's why it comes out so different.
Title: PC Time
Post by: Gandalf on November 05, 2010, 10:19:26 AM
Simple then, get the parts individually and build it yourself :D
Title: PC Time
Post by: Penfold on November 05, 2010, 10:23:05 AM
lol yeah right Gandy. You're a glutton for punishment as you know all I'll do is drive to yours and dump it on your doorstep to build it for me :)

I've speeced it up and will order from PC Specialist - except they told me to go for 750w psu not 850w psu which, they say, it totally excessive - even if I add another graphics card in it. - agree?
Title: PC Time
Post by: Gandalf on November 05, 2010, 10:28:04 AM
Depends on the PSU. You need to look at the efficiency rating of each PSU and what loads they can sustain across the rails, then you need to take into account the max power draw of each component and factor in a 10% safety margin. Then you have the required rating of your PSU.

For me, as the PSU is the most PITA piece of hardware to change, I always over spec this slightly so it'll take new components without worrying. However, most newer kit are designed for low power draw now anyway so that philosopy, while great a few years ago, may not be relevant now!

If it were me, I'd look at the two PSU's and pick the one with the highest efficiency as this will save a little bit of cash on your electricity bill.
Title: PC Time
Post by: T-Bag on November 05, 2010, 10:28:55 AM
Depends on the brand on PSU. For decent brands it'll be fine (anything 85% efficiency).
Title: PC Time
Post by: Penfold on November 05, 2010, 10:34:33 AM
No idea what you're talking about :rolleyes:

it's either a

CORSAIR 750W PSU (TX750) 80+ Ultra quiet (Ã,£88)

or a

CORSAIR 850W PSU (TX850) 80+ Ultra quiet (Ã,£99)

I'm thinking the 80 is the efficiency?

So is 750 ok?
Title: PC Time
Post by: Tutonic on November 05, 2010, 10:37:40 AM
Ã,£11 for an extra 100w of power is a pretty good reason to get the bigger power supply, in my opinion.
Title: PC Time
Post by: Gandalf on November 05, 2010, 10:38:14 AM
Great review here for the 850 http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/psus/2009/09/14/600w-850w-psu-round-up/9
The 750 should be no different so if the PC people are saying 750 is ok, then go with it....... However, do read this first...
http://www.bit-tech.net/blog/2010/05/07/does-anyone-really-need-a-1kw-psu/
Title: PC Time
Post by: Penfold on November 05, 2010, 10:49:04 AM
Interesting.

thanks for the advice
Title: PC Time
Post by: Gorion on November 05, 2010, 11:20:38 AM
Pen, take a look at the Enermax line.  

I have a 2007 Galaxy version and it's rock solid.
Title: PC Time
Post by: BrotherTobious on November 05, 2010, 11:34:29 AM
Pen i am running my 2 8800gtx band my i7 core 6 gig of ram off a corsair 750 psu been soild as a rock.  but i agree with Tut for Ã,£11 more the 850 seems to be way to go along with that review.
Title: PC Time
Post by: Penfold on November 05, 2010, 12:04:14 PM
Too late - I've ordered with a 750w. I'm sure it will be fine  :)
Title: PC Time
Post by: Dewey on November 05, 2010, 12:51:40 PM
When I was buying my PSU from Scan (corsair 850w) the guy told me that many good manufacturers of psu's ie corsair, enermax often read upto 10% more power than they are quoted to ensure they meet the minium spec. He'd tested the corsair 850 and it was actually pumping out 920w... so I wouldn't be too worried.
 
Quote from: Penfold;319074Too late - I've ordered with a 750w. I'm sure it will be fine :)
Title: PC Time
Post by: TeaLeaf on November 05, 2010, 03:06:58 PM
Quote from: Gorion;319071Pen, take a look at the Enermax line.  

I have a 2007 Galaxy version and it's rock solid.
Those are rock solid PSUs - I have the 1Kw Galaxy and it has been 100% reliable and has run my watercooling system, a gfx SLI set up and the rest of the system with zero problems.  Highly recommended (but I know it's too late for Pen!)