The Bahrain GP goes ahead!
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Superb :-)
Nice one! :D
Looks like the new tyre rules have come into effect? Contact patch looks a little bigger tbh.
Is firing a shell the new kerrs system?
My money's on Mercedes!
Quote from: Lameduck;320305Nice one! :D
Tanks
:getmecoat:
Starts today!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :yahoo:
I watched a bit of first practice yesterday, interesting rear wing! and that Lotus :dribble:
Missed mornings qualifying though, so will watch it later :doh:
Lots of problems with the technicalities of racing these days with KERS/failures wrecking brake balance, rear wings dropping rear grip on corner exits to straights, potential for many disasters. Tyres are interesting though, seems real wierd initial heat cycle to get the grip.
Poor old Schumacher, looks like he can't manage the up, up, R2, L2, down button combo yet.
Vettel !! :d
:thumbsup::clap::cheers:
It wasn't superb, but well done :)
Race was good, but i think they need to make the rear wings bigger (like the ones in 08) and then there will be less drag on the DRS when opened.
One thing i do see happening though is teams scrapping off the kers systems again, that 80 bhp seems little help other than having the aero's screwed up and having the additional weight! Seems god in theory mind
Quote from: Snokio;322314Race was good, but i think they need to make the rear wings bigger (like the ones in 08) and then there will be less drag on the DRS when opened.
One thing i do see happening though is teams scrapping off the kers systems again, that 80 bhp seems little help other than having the aero's screwed up and having the additional weight! Seems god in theory mind
It's no extra weight due to ballast I believe. It's just poorly positioned weight. The down side seems to be it completely messes with the brake bias, and when it goes it leaves you with a horrible car to drive.
No thats braking (think of Newton) that is assuming the gun is facing forward
I've heard that the big boss said they are going to install it for Maleisië, because of the relative longer stretches of track, so that KERS will be needed by Red Bull.
"Saubers disqualified from seventh and eighth places for a technical infringement to do with the rear wing actuators"
Shame :(, but means Brit Paul Di Resta gets a point from moving into 10th position in his debut GP
Buemi should of got a drive thru for having all for wheels over the yellow lines (car-park area) when overtaking whilst still performing his overtaking maneuver against Sutil
Great race, and there wasn't any significant rain interfering either!
And who says F1 cars can't fly, ouch!
Season looks promising :thumb:
20 sec penalty for Hamilton is very disappointing though.
Alonso got the same, but he was over 20 seconds ahead of the person behind him :lol:
Agreed tbh T-Bag, he did nothing that the other 23 drivers on the grid did not do throughout the afternoon.
Have to admit that i spotted Hamilton make 2 defensive moves during the live coverage, why it wasn't picked up by officials during is beyond me
But how many others were doing the same? Commentators in the same show were praising Massa for driving a very wide car, which was amounting to the same thing. Alsono also did it, so did several other drivers which we all saw on TV. I'm not saying Hamilton did nothing wrong, just that this rule needs to be applied consistently. At the moment it seems there is discretion as to when you can 'link' two moves to then say 'only allowed one defensive move' - is this per corner, per straight (how many people had several defensive moves on the straight), per time period? Confusing as hell it seems to me.
Quote from: TeaLeaf;323089Alsono also did it, so did several other drivers which we all saw on TV. I'm not saying Hamilton did nothing wrong, just that this rule needs to be applied consistently.
I don't mean to sound like a conspiracy theorist but it's another example of favouritism of Ferrari at the expense of McLaren. Not the worst example but look who it cost. Alonso keeps the same position (effectively no penalty) and Hamilton drops a place. The incident was not under investigation during the race, it's like afterwards they realised they would have to give Alonso a penalty because his mistake was so obvious and that would have put Halmiton in front, so they gave him one too.
Hamilton has made PLENTY of mistakes that would earn him penalties in the past, he's taken himself out of races. I don't have a problem with him getting the penalties he deserves, but there are quite a few examples of penalties be applied to rejig the positions around in a way that coincidentally favours Ferrari.
Now that was interesting, didn't go to sleep once. :)
KERS and DRS making F1 more like Need for Speed in every way and the rules surrounding the use of them are a farce.:sad:
What price NOS next year? Use it 5 times during the race but only if there's a R in the month, tyre temp exceeds 100c and its raining on the left side of the track.:doh:
Stunning race that was.
Thats what it is all about not? Its not over until the fat lady sings!
I really enjoyed the race. I like KERS and I'm glad it's back this year. I'm not sold on the DRS yet. And personally I think refuelling should make a come back. I like when the strategy plays a role and grid position is only half the battle. If the best car turns up on the day, out qualifies the rest and stay ahead the whole race I find it rather boring. Last season you never would have seen an 18th -> 3rd. A combination of fast wearing tyres and multiple free-form pit strategies made this fun to watch.
Im loving this season so far. I think the DRS is very interesting and I hope we see some much more risky moves as drivers become more experienced with it.
The Chinese GP was good I think though JB's silly pit lane mistake might have cost him his podium, which is annoying...
And I thought the last race was good, this was even better, and we still not had a wet race yet! not much of a KERS fan tbh, not much in a way of an advantage, look at who took 3rd spot for example, I quite like the idea of the DRS mind, but its the tyres that make the difference, the soft and hard (option and primes) is like night and day.
Did Lewis have an Oil leak or a fuel leak?
Also loved the comment by DC:
''That message could only be scarier if it was delivered in the dark' :lol:
Fabulous race. Loving the combo of Kers & DRS *on the right track*. Tyre wear is fantastic at the moment and that is precisely why refueling would not work in combination with the Pirellis.
Sent from my HTC Hero using Tapatalk
As long as the races get this good with or without rain, I don't care what they will come up with or restrict or whatever :) For all I care they'll implement banana trowing devices, or oil squirt upgrades :norty:
Quote from: TeaLeaf;323426Sent from my HTC Hero using Tapatalk
Sent from my home computer using a keyboard.
Cracking race, what a long fall for Fernando (*cheer*). Well done both Hamilton and Vettel, I'd have rather seen Hamilton win ofc, but splendidly done by both em them.
Cracking race indeed,first 4 in same round rest far behindddddddddddddd!!!
Very good race. Amazing start by Alonso, let down in part in the later stages of the race by having done an unnessecary run in Q1 on the options I think. Good driving by the rest of the front runners too. Button for making his tyres last so well, Hamilton for sticking with Vettel despite the Red Bull being significantly faster. Vettel did well keeping him behind when his Kers wasn't working. It just made for an interesting race in general. This is when the tyres should have been doing all along.
Is it me or is qualifing getting a little more boring though, seems like keeping as many options available is better than making 3/4 places on the grid.
Race was good, been very entertaining so far this season, would like to see drivers getting closer to Vettel mind!
Quote from: Snokio;325422Is it me or is qualifing getting a little more boring though, seems like keeping as many options available is better than making 3/4 places on the grid.
Race was good, been very entertaining so far this season, would like to see drivers getting closer to Vettel mind!
I don't really care about that, Never Ever watch qualifing :P
What a true shame that red flag was, obviously needed but still. I'd like to have seen what Vettel could have done on those burned up tires.
Not impressed by Hamilton at all, he better watch out or he'll make himself an outlaw or something :(
Quote from: Luminance;325894Not impressed by Hamilton at all, he better watch out or he'll make himself an outlaw or something :(
He wouldn't be invited into dMr on that showing. Poor loser.:crying:
It was his fault that he hit Massa, going for a gap that wasn't there and then blaming the guy for 'turning in on him'.
Shocking LH Interview:
although the interview shows him in a bad light, Is he right in terms of all these penalties for what is racing incidents? Think they have to appreciate that Monaco is the most difficult place to overtake and to be fair, it is entertaining to watch!
And also, What Lumi said about the red flag, i was disappointed too, but at least they let the race to finish :thumb:
I think the Petrov safety car>red flag incident robbed fans of what would shaping up to be the best Monaco Grand Prix finish of all time. I was gutted when the SC came out and the Red Flag just rubbed salt into the wound.
For my money, Vettel was going to be able to successfully hold Alonso off as the Red Bull traction out of the final corner and into the tunnel was too good for the Ferrari. Coupled with the fact that Alonso's rear tyres were visibly shot meant Alonso would never have overtaken him without a Vettel mistake.
The McLaren on the other hand had much younger tyres and very good traction with KERS & DRS on the all important final corner and into the tunnel. In those 7 remaining laps I was expecting Button to overtake Alonso and then in the final 3-4 laps to overtake Vettel as his tyres fell off 'the cliff'.
If would have been an epic story to tell your grandchildren - "I remember the 2011 Monaco Grand Prix". Instead we're left with a bit of a damp squib ending. Darn shame.
Re Hamilton - he was clearly seriously upset by things this weekend and needs to learn to grow up and not always hit out at others. However DC made an interesting & fair point - compare Schumacher overtaking Hamilton earlier in the race - Hamilton could have turned in early and collided but he did not. You could argue he was asleep in that lap, but the point remains, he had room to turn in and could have but did not. If you watch the replay of Massa, he turned in so fast when Hamilton started going up his inside that he ran into the rear of the car in front, so it's difficult to argue that Massa did not turn in deliberately as he would certainly not have turned in to crash! That was what I think Hamilton was talking about when he was referring to the 'Hamilton rules'. Hami's Maldanado overtake was a bit optimistic though imo and a shame for that driver as he'd done so well to get there.
I'm just waiting for a gutter-dwelling tabloid to take the "is it because I is black" comment and try to present it as 'Hamilton plays the race card'. It's just the sort of drivel that a British newspaper would try. I laughed when I heard it and took it as a clearly intended joke. I hope it does not get blown out of proportion and turned into a race row.
All in all, a cracking grand prix, full of overtakes and incidents.
Best overtake of the day? Hamilton on Massa in the tunnel. I've not seen that in years. And yes Massa, those are what marbles do to your grip.
Most unlucky man in F1: Button for having a SC come out immediately after he did his pit stop and losing his lead. he was by far the quickest driver out there yesterday and my 'driver of the day' and then for having another SC and red flag completely ruin a great drive back.
Luckiest man in F1: Vettel for being 3rd at best and then having 2 SCs and a red flag hand him the win.
Result we should have seen: 1st Button, 2nd Vettel, 3rd Alonso. It would have been a legendary race which we could have talked about for years.
When i saw the replay of the Lewis vs Massa, it looked like Massa may of been trying to get the inside of Webber, need to see it again though!
I wish you wouldn't have put it so well like that TL.
Its even harder reading it again, after also having the exact same feelings after the race.
I would have betted on: 1st Button, 2nd Vettel, 3rd Alonso. OR Alonsso 1st and a Button/Vettel crash.
Watched the replay a few times and while it's all down to personal opinion, I think Massa should take a good dollop of blame for the incident. The rules and interpretation of them is probably a mine-field but Massa must have known what the likely outcome of his move would be. Although I don't see why on earth he would have deliberately taken himself out of the race to prove a point. Yes Hamilton is getting a lot of bad calls made against him but no he shouldn't start whining in public about it. If he and his team have a problem talk to the officials and not the press.
Not sure if I'm alone is this opinion but to my eyes the Mclaren did not have the lock to negotiate that hairpin as well as most of the other cars out there. Lewes' line through there always started wide to get the nose round which is why, I think, MS get past him there early in the race and why, IMHO, it was never going to work with Massa.
As far as I can see Hamilton tried a bold move on the inside (which COULD potentially have worked without incident), he had the lock to get round if Massa hadn't have turned in. Massa however saw a space left on the inside of Webber that he could slip his car into to avoid losing as much speed on that corner.
As a result road runs out for Hamilton (no way he could take the tighter line), Massa gets hit into Webber and Hamilton rightly gets the penalty.
I wanted Hamilton to win, I don't like that when qualifying gets red flagged people on flying laps essentially get penalised (would it kill them to after a red flag give 1 or 2 out laps worth of time to anyone who was on an out or flying lap). Hamilton had a good chance to get a podium before the incidents (although the safety car would have put pay to that ultimately --- don't get me started on that).
As for Lewis and the stewards. It's a Mercedes thing, they've been picked on for years in Ferrari's favour, complaining to the stewards doesn't get anywhere so I can see his frustration.
I don't think you're alone OB, but I don't think *any* of the cars have the lock to get around the hairpin on the inside line all of the way around the corner. If they enter wide to mid they can exit tight, if they enter tight they can just exit mid or just wider than mid, but there's plenty of room for two cars if they both play ball.
These are interesting shots. Watch where the Red Bull is, then think about which line Massa would have to take to get through the corner to follow it. Then try to align that with where the Ferrari ended up.
It's all highly subjective, but I can't help believing that Massa knew Hamilton was right behind him and when he saw the McLaren going for the inside line he pulled across into that driving line. On other laps you'd have to say that was not the line he usually took around that corner.
End result was Hamilton had nowhere to go (and no lock to avoid it) and Massa (by turning in earlier and tightening the radius of the corner) shortened the distance between him and the Red Bull more than he realised and therefore he ended up with his Ferrari nose jammed into the Red Bull's rear diffuser.
Brundle later mentions that corner as one of the places where drivers *do* use their mirrors as people do overtake there. The line Massa took indicates to me that he knew he was being overtaken and closed the door too late - late enough to crash into the rear of the Red Bull as his focus was on the McLaren not the Red Bull.
I'm absolutely not saying Hamilton was blameless, but two cars can get around that corner if they want and I'd put the incident as 50/50. One was over-taking agressively, the other was saying 'no' aggressively.
Quote from: T-Bag;325941Massa gets hit into Webber
From the video that I posted, it seems pretty clear to me that Massa was going to hit the Red Bull even without the contact with McLaren. The arial shot about halfway through the video is the best shot, it clearly shows the line Massa took before the contact, the accident that followed was inevitable from that point onwards. Massa had turned inside the Red Bull without the lock to complete the turn so the contact was inevitable. That's part of my argument it was a 50/50 - they could both have got around that corner without the contact had they both played ball.
Agree with the above. The more I watch it the more I think Hamilton misread the whole corner. However Massa was indeed always going to hit the Red Bull half way through the bend. I'm also tending to the opinion that at the very beginning of the clip (0.03) Hamilton was clearly out to the left of Massa and drawing past him. Whether he had the right or the wrong of it Massa was going to hit Hamilton if he turned in hard and I'm sure he knew it.
http://www.f1technical.net/
Well worth a browse for the F1 fans here. Check out some of the area discussions, there's some *real* techie people there!
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I wonder If Massa had the same idea as Lewis, look at where Mark is, more over to the right side, Massa has a look on the inside. Lewis had hit Massa before making contact with Webber, maybe the hit made Massa loose control and therefore making a collision with Webber became unavoidable?
Too close to call, the stewards have more info than us, I think it's just a racing incident tbh.
I still think Massa was having an effort at Webber rather than deliberately crashing. If it were Alonso or Schumacher I'd completely agree they knew exactly what was going on, but it looks to me like half way through trying to get the line on Webber he realises there's nowhere for him to turn. I've tried googling the Schumacher overtake on Hamilton but I'm having no luck finding it, I want to see how tight you can get round there before deciding that it was an inevitable crash.
At the end of the day, if Di Resta got a penalty Hamilton had to. Massa had track position so the stewards were always going to side with him for the incident. Blocking him in qualifying though *should* have been a different story, but we know how Ferrari are always blameless and Mclaren are always guilty.
Hamilton is still my favourite racer because despite every decision going against him and having an inferior car he still gets out there and tries the over takes and is putting pressure on red bull, it makes the sport interesting. The stewards should take a back seat and let them race.
What a race!!! shame about the long wait, but was WELL WORTH IT :D
awesome, button was a different class, even schey did a good job as well
Proberly the best f1 race ive ever seen i did want michael to come 3rd and not 4th why dont he have drs?
straight from the f1 rulebook
QuoteLimitations regarding the use of DRS.
Qualifying and DRS
During the qualifying stages, the driver may use the DRS Drag Reduction System at any time.
F1 Racing and DRS
In order to facilitate overtaking, the DRS may only be employed on specific sections of the track and only by a car that is within one second of the car in front
The DRS â€" Drag Reduction System and the KERS â€" Kinetic Energy Reduction System are often implemented together, simultamneously increasing the power available to the car as well as lowering the drag offered via the rear wing.
so the car in front cant use.... car behind can
Ah Cheers sulky was a shame about de la rosa today
F1 has bored the hell outa me for years, but this season has been awesome so far.
Cracking race despite the rain delays and Button's pace was electric.
Was it just me or did the McLaren visually appear to be running a whole load more rear wing than the others? I know they 'said' they were running more of a compromise package, but visually the McLaren wing looked huge (even allowing for their lower DRS hinge point). Strangely though you would have thought that this would result in a slower straight line speed - but according to the FIA data (http://fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre/f1_media/Documents/can-race-speeds.pdf) Button was fastest at 2 of the 3 checkpoints.
Youngster coming through: Paul Di Resta - he was the only driver to book a top 3 slot at all three checkpoints and clearlyhad a handle on the circuit and grip levels which was very impressive for a car known to be fast in a straight line but not so good around corners!
More info available at the FIA Timings Page - Montreal Grand Prix, 12 June 2011 (http://fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre/f1_media/Pages/timing.aspx)
And on a lighter note, here's a new F1-related advert which I found quite funny :)
Your recording has ended... continued coverage is on BBC2 "aghhhhh"
Thank god for iplayer. That was stunning race. I thought the safety car was a bit OTT he seemed to run till the track was too dry. It looked like button was running a full wing for sure. Probs the exit speeds on the corners giving him pace on the straight along with the DRS being available to him most laps as he cut through the pack.
Quote of the day" What IS he doing !" Hamilton tho quick needs to chill . He seems like a loose cannon on track at the moment
Seems I missed out on yet another cracking race. Only to watch some bits and scraps here and there, but what I saw looked great :(
There are people saying now that they saw button checking his left mirror and then block hamilton. Are those just bad mouthers/hamilton fans, or is there some truth in there?
Quote from: Luminance;326950Seems I missed out on yet another cracking race. Only to watch some bits and scraps here and there, but what I saw looked great :(
There are people saying now that they saw button checking his left mirror and then block hamilton. Are those just bad mouthers/hamilton fans, or is there some truth in there?
button said in an interview he checked his mirrors but didnt see lewis , had a chat with lewis after the race and said sorry
Hamilton was going so much faster than Button that I'm pretty sure that whilst Button checked his mirror, Hami had not yet moved out of the slip stream. He had a massive speed advantage out fo that last chicane so would have easily passed. Racing accident imo, no fault, no blame.
I'm not surprised they collided. I doubt Button could see anything in his mirrors with all that spray, and Hamilton probably chose the wrong side to overtake (not that I'm an expert or anything, but personally I wouldn't go for the tiny gap & concrete wall combo).
I don't normally watch F1, but I'm glad I caught the end of this one (admittedly whilst bleeding to death on the OA server).
Problem is that on that corner the other side was the apex, which is also not a good side to overtake. Most overtakes go the side Hamilton went - but I suspect he caught Button faster than he anticipated as he only just pulled out from behind him before ramming his diffuser :P
Quote from: TeaLeaf;326956Hamilton was going so much faster than Button that I'm pretty sure that whilst Button checked his mirror, Hami had not yet moved out of the slip stream. He had a massive speed advantage out fo that last chicane so would have easily passed. Racing accident imo, no fault, no blame.
What he said!
QuoteKen Block is set to make his Formula One debut in August this year when he'll get the opportunity to drive Pirelli's Toyota test car. Oh dear.
http://www.topgear.com/uk/car-news/ken-block-pirelli-f1-test-monza-2011-06-13
Well, it's been a great season, some fantastic overtaking and great coverage from the BCC.................. and we didn't need the rain.....well, except for the excellent Canadian GP :)
Hope to see Rubens next season as well as MSC :thumb: