ok
thes short version is thus
raid vs nefarian
amber fails the heal enough on the tank (trying to conserve some mana in phase 3)- tank dies
tank takes a electricute+ shadow flame + melee strike- tank dies
amber gets grilled off the raid leader, and healing leader QQ ?? QQ ??
some healing meter stuff is linked in the healing channel, amber gets pointed at more
having spent some more time researching this i have come across this thread
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/905793-10m-Heroic-Nef-Holy-or-Disc
look to the 11:34 time print, and the reply from a disc/ holy priest on their point of view
having replied to a few personal messages about this situation i have to ask
1 is it just me ?
2 is it the raid composition ?
3 is there any other tactics required for the fight
4 is there anything the tanks to do to assist in mitigating the massive spike damage of the fight
some positive feed back would be nice, as frankly i`m getting rather sick of the finger pointing my way for many weeks now, and is not making the fight any easier when all i get is QQ ?? QQ ?? QQ ?? all the time in the healer channel, and 3+ wispers after something happens involving me.:taz:
Not sure what to say here Amber. I was raid leading so I'm the one who asks what happened. I'm sorry that you are not comfortable when this happens, but I'm pretty sure everyone else in the raid will confirm that I always ask what happened when something goes wrong no matter who it is. I accept that this is not something that DMR has done too much in the past, but in Cata we (DMR Council) took a conscious decision to identify where we wiped, why and then try to solve the problem. This has resulted in us clearing all content and getting onto heroic modes faster than we have ever done as a guild and people seem happy with the results we're getting as a 'mere' social raid guild.
Calling the questions 'QQ' or describing them as finger pointing is hardly fair though. We're allowed to look at why we wipe - we do it to help the raid and improve performance, not to drag people down. However we do need raiders to accept the questions are an attempt to help the raid - if people continually get overly-defensive about things then we never get to spend time solving the problem. If we did not do this then we'd not have progressed as far as we have to date.
As to specific concerns, the thread you link is to do with a heroic fight so I'm not sure it is relevant to a normal mode fight. Certainly it does not have much relevance to the problems we were seeing and trying unsuccessfully to solve. I'll try to explain.
Tonight we were trying to understand what you were healing as despite being on a MT healing role, we saw regular periods of minimal or no healing on the MT which led to an MT death.
We linked logs to show you what we were concerned by because previous attempts to ask were met with different answers about cast time, tail swipes and mana issues which simply did not make sense to us. For example:
Try 2: Hal dies and we wipe. In the previous 17 seconds you healed Hal for 1xPoM and 1xFlash heal.
Try 3: Hal dies to a 69k electrocute. You blamed the electrocute for the death and it did indeed kill him, but the point we were trying to make was that the reason a 69k spell killed a 200k tank was that in the previous 10 seconds he only got 1xPoM and 1xGreater Heal from you.
Why does an MT healer heal the MT for so little? It's these problems we were trying to work through with you as we can't understand why more heals are not on the tank when you are an MT healer. Yes others might need to help out from time to time as range allows, yes specs make a difference, but we were losing the MT in Phase 1 regularly and seeing insufficient healing on him - there's no point being mana efficient if your main tank is dead!
It's not a witch hunt, but it is about making sure that on the more challenging fights, where we all need to perform at an optimal level, that we are all staying on task and doing our roles to the best of our ability.
Hi Amber,
Don't think you were being picked out.....when there's a wipe there will of course be interest in why and if it is identified as too infrequent heals for the tank as a contributing factor then it will be asked.
For myself my major worry at the moment is still my mana usage - i need to be a little more mean with it but try to achieve good results.......if you find you're worried about conserving mana and that is the reason to hold a little healing back then which can then put tank on the wrong side of 0HP when one of the random factors interferes ( on Nef its always tail swipe in P1 ) then the best advice i could give would be to boost your mp5 to take away the mana issues a little and free you up to throw in more heals than you feel you can. My own point of view is that you have to do the healing that is needed that keeps the tank in a safe place and you have to expect tail swipe etc so you must keep him topped near max using the most efficient may of doing it. At the end of the Nef fight last night i found myself choking for mana at the end so its something i'm going to look at before next raid. It's not really my mp5 that is the issue.....it's the "oh @#$£" moments where somethign happens and you end up throwing out a few big high cost heals that are really expensive in terms of % of mana pool.
For me in Cata i am still trying to balance out my mana usage and i still have a lot to learn......it certainly isn't easy street like WotLK regarding mana regen........but if mana pool/regen is limiting what you feel you can do then , only advice would be to boost your regen.
Cheers
Niel ( Puja )
thanks for reply neil (yea i know u as puja too)
the point iwas trying (and failed at getting across) was that the nef hc fight uses a lot of the (normal) mechanics
as the link was about hc nef(scary) and the problems their raid priest was encountering....
tbh, on tuesday night i shouldnt of played, i had a awsome migraine attack, and too the drugs to deal with it, i then i raided- with a fuzzy head, and half payed attention... baad
but i thought i could manage it (lol phailed)
so by the time i asked to for some one else to step in(grats on the loot btw) i was really knackered
and by the time(+1hour to me leavng the raid) i was asleep at the keyboard, and the missus nudged me to say- they have downed nef :)
so i`m really sorry if i came accross as a twat the other night, but if i keep suffering the attacks like i am atm- i think i`ll have to stop raiding for a while(seek medical advice...)
hope u guys are having fun on the hc, i`ll not list my name for them, as i feel i`m letting the raid down, and personally i need a few key items, to bring my kit upto scratch for the hc challange
ok, from what i understood, you were healing the nefarian tank, they usually put me in that role and i can't hide it took me some tries to understand how do it with the best mana efficiency (tl and other people saw me getting in p2 with 100% mana sometimes).
There are some tips to do this right, and i'll put them in order of importance:
1) You are the nef tank healer: if he dies you fail. Thus there is NOONE more important than the tank (it took me a lot to squeeze this in my empty head - always trying to heal sheep and the others too -, but i got it in the end :P ). For this very reason you should check at least once each second the situation of the nef tank, that's why they have one whole player focused on this job.
2)You want to save as much mana as you can, BUT you MUST keep the tank over a certain margin to be sure he survives whatever combination of nasty things can happen (and be sure that there WILL be an electrocute while the tank is dealing with a flame breath, and you're gonna be blamed for "letting" him die, it's happened before and it will happen again, you can only learn how to lower the chances of it killing the tank as much as possible).
3)You must do your best to keep the tank over 70% during the x9%-x2% of nef life, and over 90% during the x1%-x0%: that's the only way you can be almost sure he will survive.
Now some general tips to avoid spending too much mana to do your job.
You should always try to use Heal (http://www.wowhead.com/spell=2050), or [ITEM=http://www.wowhead.com/spell=2060]Greater Heal[/ITEM] if you're preparing for an electrocute and the tank keeps getting lower on hp, if you're holy, use the Holy Word: Serenity (http://www.wowhead.com/spell=88684) on every cooldown, and prayer of mending while standing close enough to let it bounce back and forth from him to you. On this assignment, you should be able to stand still almost all the time. When the Nefarion will breath fire over the tank, depending on how close is the electrocute you may want to put a Power Word:Shield (http://www.wowhead.com/spell=17) on him, to mitigate the dmg, and allow you to get him on top hp just with further spam of the cheapest heal and serenity. When the electrocute is about to hit, there is no mistake there: you MUST keep the tank over 90%, or the risk to lose him will be high (an unlucky parry/breath soon after/whatever), if you feel you're going to lose him, do not esitate to use [ITEM=http://www.wowhead.com/spell=47788]Guardian Spirit[/ITEM] or whatever cooldown you feel it is needed for him to survive: if the tank dies it's a wipe and you'll keep wiping until he will survive. The key to get this done is to have both your unit frame and the boss frame close together and under your eyes near the raid grid or the focus frame with the nef tank on it (remember you can now move the standard ui frames by enabling the option on the menu showed right clicking on the frame itself). You have to be able to watch all these things without turning into a chameleon! :P Remember to check the boss percentages (you can enable percentages on the standard ui going into menu-->interface-->unit text (iirc)-> check player, target and show percentage): when the boss is at x4%, start trying to top the tank and keep it up until the electrocute goes off. If you remeber and you have them off cooldown, it would not be a bad idea to use some self defensive cooldown to mitigate the dmg on yourself. Before phase 2 starts (usually when nef is at about 74% hp), you will not have to face another electrocute until you're up on the pillar, and there will be some seconds you may want to spend using an [ITEM=http://www.wowhead.com/spell=64901]Hymn of Hope[/ITEM], to prepare yourself and the raid for the next phase.
Remember that this fight is the last and most difficoult of this content, it requires all the focus you can dispose of along with all the patience you have. Some tries are not much to get the hang of it, but i know you can do it. If it can drain some of your frustration, let me tell you i was so friggin frustrated on the first tries when i was going oom (and tank dieing shortly after) while everyone else was at half or more mana you can't imagine. I tried everything i could to save as much mana while keeping the tank up, and in the end i got the right rotation (pity it will not help you, since it's a rotation based on holy pallies cooldowns to allow my mana regen not interfere with my healing, a problem you shouldn't have). Again, it's frustrating, but the more frustrating it gets, the more satisfying is to be successful in it. Just don't give up and try to adapt to the fight as you can.
I really hope this helped, and i'm very sorry for the wall of text.
P.S.: It helped me a lot to watch some specific video with the point of view of an holy paladin healing the nefarion tank check very carefully which spells they're using and their timing.
P.P.S.: Some videos i've seen have the whole caster camp moving where the nefarian healer is when ony is killed, and 2 healers on nefarian tank from there on. But we usually do this with one healer on nef tank for the whole phase, i guess.
Quote from: Tirkad;325308P.P.S.: Some videos i've seen have the whole caster camp moving where the nefarian healer is when ony is killed, and 2 healers on nefarian tank from there on. But we usually do this with one healer on nef tank for the whole phase, i guess.
Not sure you saw this. When Ony dies P2 starts immediately, so you do not need to heal the Nef tank as Nef is wandering into mid to take off - so the ranged camp and everyone else is heading towards their pillars, not grouping up with you at the Nef healer spot!
You are not having problems healing as a priest, man.
You are having problems focusing on your tank. :-)
In my humble, honest and quite norwegain opinion: You are a great healer; Focus on your task, conserve mana, eat cookies and let others do their job.
I know for a fact that you saved some dps'ers (and yourself) that that night. They would and should have been dead.. Making me look good aint your job man .-)
Yes, sheep will get low on health... But let me take the blame when he dies. :-D
Let yourself drop to 0 hp and when TL yells out; "Slush!! Keeping Amber up is your job, bitch"... give yourself another cookie, because mana conserving in this fight is everything. And not throwing those binding heals and PW:S yourself might actually save the day.
Quote from: TeaLeaf;325313Not sure you saw this. When Ony dies P2 starts immediately, so you do not need to heal the Nef tank as Nef is wandering into mid to take off - so the ranged camp and everyone else is heading towards their pillars, not grouping up with you at the Nef healer spot!
Sorry, it was late night and our tries on hc halfus drained a lot of my focus. What i meant is that in some videos they used to switch the whole raid close to the nef tank healer and the raid healer was helping him with the tank, before killing ony and get in p2.
Only when the raid is dpsing Nef prior to Ony's death. The problem is that at that point in the fight we still have 3 tanks, 2 wearing plate and one slightly chilled frost mage. When the adds go down we end up with some dedicated time on Nef and we tend to group in 2 groups, melee & ranged. We'll never get into a single group as Ony tank healer will always be out of range with his tank and the Ony dps will never be able to reach Nef melee range + Ony at the same time. So we're sort of doing what you mentioned already, but only when adds are down and assuming we're not preparing for a 10% transition or recovering from one! Bottom line is that it is a challenging fight, thank goodness, and all the more fun for being so.