http://ptr.wowhead.com/npc=52498
The PTR was open today for testing on Firelands 10-man and we were able to get some time with Beth'tilac. Unfortunately the US servers got a lot less time with this boss than EU and we only got eight or so attempts in before the server was shut down.
Beth'tilac is the spider boss first previewed by Blizzard at the end of April. She ended up being a fairly simple fight. Of course, as usual for the PTR, she was untuned and will most likely change in the future. The encounter has two easily defined phases: the first is a kiting phase, the second is a burn phase. For phase one, you split into groups for below her web and on top of it; for phase two, everyone groups up underneath her web and you must kill her before her increasing damage is too high while dealing with a debuff similar to Gluth's Mortal Wound.
Overall, it's a fun introductory fight and seems to serve well as a gear check for the zone.
As for the more detailed explanations, phase one starts when she's first engaged--she retreats up to the safety of her web. You have to have players follow her up there or else the raid takes damage from Venom Rain so you want to immediately split up your raid into top and bottom groups.
If you're assigned to go up top, you must use web string that drop from the sky to climb up onto her web. Only one person can climb up per string. You can DPS her while up there as well and there are Cinderweb Spinners that create her web; they hit for a low amount of damage on players (~1400) and are negligible, their purpose is just to create more web strings to return back up. She casts Smoldering Devastation three times during phase one. When she begins to cast it, those up top must jump back down to avoid taking damage and then must return up top when it's over.
On the bottom part, Cinderweb Drones would spawn one at a time; these are larger, hard hitting spiders. Our second tank picked them up. Since the raid itself took very little damage comparatively, this made it a very tank healing intensive fight (especially in phase two). The Drones themselves needed to be kited around the room because tons of little Spiderlings were spawned every once in a while by Beth'tilac and they would give chase, damaging those in their path. If they got close enough to the Drones, the Drones would eat them and gain a buff called well-fed as well as get healed. It was essential to make sure that didn't happen--the Drones already hit hard enough and this buff makes them hit for more.
To help combat this, we had players switch from the Drones to AoE down the Spiderlings when they spawned and then switch back. We also noticed that the Drones would try to head to the center to climb back up if they were not killed in the right amount of time. We didn't have any climb up successfully, so we didn't see the benefit they gave her, but they would more than likely kill the tank up there.
Beth'tilac herself operates with an energy meter as said earlier and casts Smoldering Devastation. After casting this spell three times from above, she drops back down from the web and start phase two. When she came down, she started to gain a stacking damage buff called Frenzy. She also casted The Widow's Kiss on the tank. This implies that there's supposed to be a tank rotation, but we couldn't make it through them because Frenzy was stacking too quickly and our tanks were getting wrecked. It's very probable that the rate this stacks was altered to be quicker in just to ensure no one defeated her besides those who found an exploit or a way to bug out the encounter; a couple guilds killed her by getting her to bug out and get stuck on the web, so she'd cause no damage but could be attacked still without resetting.
That's all there was to the fight--it's a simple, enjoyable one. Even more notably, Firelands itself is looking gorgeous. It has perfect ambience and some of the best textures World of Warcraft has had. Despite the lag and lack of a completely functioning interface that comes with the PTR, we have a few screenshots to show you of her lair and the zone itself. Tomorrow begins another testing session for a different boss and we'll be there to check it out!
The misconception I see with this boss is in the management of the raid. In a lot of ways, this is a burn phase in three small transition parts, and then a final fourth burn phase.
To accomplish downing the boss correctly, Cinderweb Drones and Spiderlings get priority, specifically because Drones will siphon off fire energy from Beth'tilac. The spiderlings are hurtful because Drones and the boss can consume these for 20% of the spiderlings' health, as well as gaining speed buffs.
The goal is to make the three phases in which your transition team kills spinners to go upstairs and burn the boss as long as possible. By taking down drones fast, it negates their ability to drain energy from the boss, and by burning the spiderlings, you prevent the drones from getting back health.
On the PTR, most people noticed guilds staying 'up top' anywhere from 2 - 5 minutes, with some reports stating they kept those phases at 5 or more minutes at times. This prevents the boss from "over-enraging" (her Frenzy stacks are, as of now, so overly done and quick, there is a large need to extended those three transitions as long as possible to deal as much DPS as possible, and not be in the final phase for too long before the AOE and tank damage becomes unhealable).
http://25man.com/firelands/bethtilac
ahhh the first fight is already awsome ( as far as i can read :D ) let me be the ranged killing the adds that come down from the celing :P hahaha :)
Quote from: hubbah;327214ahhh the first fight is already awsome ( as far as i can read :D ) let me be the ranged killing the adds that come down from the celing :P hahaha :)
As far as I know, first four bosses can be done in random order, and after those 4, the other 3 become available in sequential order.
Nice add to prevent repetition of doing the same bosses in same order over and over again. Also makes it possible to start (the progression) with the boss that has the biggest chance to go down given the group composition.
New bump:
[video=youtube;L8OQFgKTn_Q]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8OQFgKTn_Q[/video]
http://www.learntoraid.com/2011/06/17/bethtilac-video-strategy-guide-10-normal/
We will be using this tactic as it seems, read the text(I had to scroll down a bit).
Melee prepare to go up and ranged prepare to stay down.
Quote from: TeaLeaf;327212http://25man.com/firelands/bethtilac
Website unavailable :g:
Decent video:
Too late, Dreaman posted while I was editing....
And, eh, well, it does make some sense combined with the other:
[video=youtube;rchFnurtmI8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rchFnurtmI8&hd=1[/video]
Anyone who can translate it? :blink:
been watching a few youtubes on the boss from differnt perspectives and this really should be a pushover :-) cu in a few hours ppl :-)
Melee DPS point of view:
First of all this boss is pretty boring for melee dps:narnar:
At start of the fight if you can taunt then you taunt a few spiders to get some lines up to the top platform.
platform tank taunts his own one, and he has to go up first directly followed by his healer.
"you" as dps if able taunt one for the healer that needs to go on top if that is needed, if not just taunt 2 or 3 of them for the aoe group and then yourself as last go up and just dps the boss.
Platform:
Just nuke and stay going fullout on the boss!
The things to look for are mainly the meteors! make sure with that, that you have enough space to move around. not that you are just next to one and have no room for another there.
Those meteors create holes and you will end up with the aoe group and maybe even cause a wipe because of it. So stay away from those always look at where you are standing.
second thing you have to look for is the boss his energy bar. It drains pretty fast so you don't have alot of dps time on the boss. when that bar reaches 0% you NEED to drop down to the aoe group.
After drop down kill some adds and start taunting the spiders that come from above again. and all that repeats for 3 times.
Last phase:
Just stand with your healers behind the boss and nuke the crap out of him!
Save or make sure you have your dps boosts ready for that phase. The classes that have aoe healing also make sure to use that in the last phase.
Very simple and easy but boring fight for melee dps.
**for the ferals in the guild**
something for you to know to boost your dps and help out your group.
Once you are on the platform at the start of the fight, put in your first rotation of rip and rake. right after that use your first "beserk". You won't have a second option for beserk later on so use it at that point.
Beserk will then be ready again for when you enter the last phase but only when you used it when first time up there.
After first drop down use your innervate on one of the healers in the aoe group. Also with that it will be ready for the last phase again for a healer that needs it at that point.
for the rest happy killing
Ok, this time i was on the air combat squad with twisted and grimnar. Basically from my point of view the most important things can be resumed as follow:
-ALWAYS let the tank call when he's going up, the healer should follow as soon as possible, then the dps if any.
-You must avoid the meteors: once you've got the eye for it, it's easy since you have many seconds to get out of the fire before the actual impact.
-Call out for healer range, if needed. Just before you'll have to get down, there will be many holes in the floor, so it may get a bit messy positioning wise.
-As healer, save your mana. You shouldn't need to use many big heals there, so it's a good thing to use a mana efficient rotation there. The best time to use mana replenishments like Divine Plea (cooldowns implying debuffs), is when you'll have to get down: it takes about that much time and you will not be healing much anyway.
-In the final phase, rotate healers and tank cooldowns to grant the maximum efficiency, thus granting the widest time span for the ranged to do their job beforer the soft enrage hits. It is suggested to use mana replenishments like Hymn of Hope just before this phase and use the Heroism keeping in mind that it will last 40 secs (if i recall correctly for us it was about 30% of the boss hp, but may be wrong there since i was too busy healing).
Did you guys have 2 dps or 1 dps going to the top??
Quote from: Arcticfire;328203Did you guys have 2 dps or 1 dps going to the top??
Only 1 melee dps on the boss.
RGT ran this fight with only 1 melee dps.
The best part of this fight.... There is nothing on the floor!
So, just keep in the middle and you shall get healed. Of course, people will run off to tank/dps/get a beer, but... do encourage them to come back into middle when their task has ended.. There will be AoE splash heals coming in like never before!
Phase2:
What triggers phase 2 on this fight is a timer. After 3x Smoldering Devastations (http://www.wowhead.com/spell=99052), phase 2 will start.
And I have to say... It lasted very long.. Some thoughts:
A) Running with 2 melee upstairs, we would have had Beth on lower hp before phase 2 starts.
B) Running with 3 ranged, we would have had less damage downstairs to drones and such = more inc damage and less control. But: When 2melee and a jumps down to help out (just before Smoldering Devastations (http://www.wowhead.com/spell=99052)) , these adds would be dead fairly quick.
From a taking pov this fight is very easy. Ensure you agree with your healer which thread you aim for and stick to the one taunt to get it. Then announce to the raid that you are going up. This allows any nearby healers to HOT you up. When up, use eyes and avoid meteors, flame puddles and small holes. That is the hard part. Drop down when boss does his big cast helping DPS on the adds. Repeat.
P2 is easier. OT stands to the side and taunts when MT gets the widow kiss debuff. Swap places fast so aoe from the debuff does not hit the other tank. Repeat. Try and save cd's until hero is called. WIN.
Small question I could not find the answer too:
Once you have killed the 4 Cinderweb Spinner, do they return before Beth'tilac casts Smoldering Devastation?
There certainly seemed to be more than 4 spinners per cycle and the DPS numbers support a lot more than 4 x 77k Spinners per cycle.
We assigned 1 DPS (3 total) to each of the NW, NE and SE corners to handle adds spawning. Prio was adds, then Spinners, then Drone.
OT was given SW corner, which is where he dragged Drones to.
Drones tended to spawn at the W spot, not in the corner, so they need moving to maximise the distance to the adds.
A 4th ranged dps (me) was assigned to maintain DOTs on spinners throughout the fight, assist with any add packs and then focus dps the Drone down.
We could probably just manage with 3 ranged dps downstairs and send a 2nd dps upstairs to get the boss HP down more quickly, however it would be damn close atm imo so I am inclined to stick with 4 dps downstairs until it is becoming clear that we have excess dps.
What did help tremendously was a solid raidwall rotation for the final phase. I waited until about 50% for heroism and then called individual raidwalls as required. We used the following raidwalls in this order to cover the final phase.
Feral tranquility (cat)
Healing Hymn (shadow priest)
DG (prot pala)
Resto Tranquility with simultaneous Spirit Totem (resto druid & resto shaman)
AM (holy pala)
The first two raidwalls were used before heroism was called as we did not want to waste DPS time under heroism.
Quick comment on classes.
Ranged are clearly better downstairs as they can target switch quickly between corners without moving.
That means melee tend to be better upstairs where you then have to worry about the MT and the melee dps failling through each other's holes in the web.
If we sent more dps upstairs (2 up, 3 down) then it might be easier to make the extra dps a ranged dps to limit melee range holes.
That having been said I would quite like to try 2 melee dps + MT upstairs, then 3 ranged downstairs. If melee can handle the web holes that I think would give us the best overall return. I'm not convinced that at the moment we could handle downstairs with 2 ranged + 1 melee, if we'd sent 1 ranged + 1 melee upstairs.
Top platform is doable with 2 melee dps, but indeed with a but, The healer has to be in range and yesterday we had 1 time that was a problem at one point.
I had to stand in a place with no escape from any meteor just to be able to get into range of the healer who had it hard to move aswell. So yes indeed i fell down once just because of that.
Quote from: TeaLeaf;328218There certainly seemed to be more than 4 spinners per cycle and the DPS numbers support a lot more than 4 x 77k Spinners per cycle.
The Cinderweb Spinners are the spiders hanging around shooting acid. According to WoWhead they have 232K health, but I remember 363k health. The amount of damage from the kill raid log would lead to 18.4 Spinners with 232K health, or 11.7 Spinners with 363K health. Since 3 times 4 Spinners nicely fits into the cycles, this time I'm gonna assume my memory is better than WoWhead :blink:
So after almost 48 hours of background processing, I came up with this killing order:
- pull Beth'tilac, wait a few seconds for the Spinners, taunt 4 Spinners down to the floor, kill them asap, tank & healer go up, followed by melee dps
- After Spinners are dead, all dps on Drone, there is a 1 minute interval between Drones, they have to die as quick as possible.
- One ranged dps with slowing spells on Spiderlings, who come as a pack and can be AoE. Call out when they come to close so the rest of the ranged dps can help. Any class that can track beasts or use food to track beast (http://www.wowhead.com/item=43001) is ideal for this.
- When Beth'tilac casts Smoldering Devastation, everyone down, and start with step 1 again.
- After third Smoldering Devastation, kill all remaining adds as soon as possible in small Spiderlings before the Drone
- Kill Beth'tilac
Kill anyone touching your loot
If there is a surplus in melee dps, like RGW always has, all but one melee dps could stay down and be permanently on the Drone. If two ranged can control the Spiderlings enough, three melee dps in the group could be doable, if the fight is on farm. :norty:
Essential in the killing order is that all Spinners are taunted to the floor as soon as possible. The raid log from the kill show that the acid does almost 15k per spell, while melee is less than 2k per hit. Taunting them down asap makes the healers very happy. The Spinners should therefore be taunted down, picked up by tanks (2 each) and be killed on the floor by dps. First the two that are picked up by the tank that goes up, then the other two. Any melee dps that will go up should go up after the spinners are dead! This are about 30 seconds to kill them before the first Drone arrives, so all dps is needed.
It would be interesting to keep all dps down while the fight is being learned, since upstairs the fight is rather boring (according to some bored druid) and downstairs the unfamiliarity of the fight makes it a bit hectic.
You're absolutely right, I was looking at the wrong mob!
Good to see that a few new people (noreia, jas and hal from the look of the logs) learned how hard it is to get up, get down and move it all around yesterday. :-) Mucha cred to you. This is now farm (*cough*) content.
Fun logreading aswell. Hope you did some facepalming during the raid, cause it looks like it was needed! ;-)
Edit: This was posted at the same minute as Hubbahs post. W000000t!
WARNING: OpenGL users cannot see the hole created by the spiders underneath you. Infact, you can't even see the spiders bar the big drones.
At least I can't on my Linux system. All other effects I see just fine (bar the shiny sunshafts and water effects new with DX11 support). This effectively rules you out from being in the top group as it means RNG will send you down too early.
Quote from: Twisted;328487WARNING: OpenGL users cannot see the hole created by the spiders underneath you. Infact, you can't even see the spiders bar the big drones.
Just to clarify, can you see the spinners and spiderlings?
Not when I'm up, no
I just re-watched the 10man tankspot vid and the floor when up top is lot more translucent than what I see :S
Looking at the video, you can clearly see the strands down from the top holding the spinners, which I don't on my PC.
Got a Windows PC to play on or are you restricted to Linux?
Slush wrote
QuoteGood to see that a few new people (noreia, jas and hal from the look of the logs) learned how hard it is to get up, get down and move it all around yesterday. :-) Mucha cred to you. This is now farm (*cough*) content.
Fun logreading aswell. Hope you did some facepalming during the raid, cause it looks like it was needed! ;-)
For a first timer this fight -inspite of watching tspot videos- was sort of complex. First attempts, whenever I finally was up at the big spider, heart pounding and excited, I was already alone. No strong protector anymore alive just little squishy Noreia and a fat hungry spider:oops:. Tirk was already spun in and the digestion juices were injected:beer:. Twisted lived up to his name down on the floor and not moving. On two attempts I even forgot to remove rockbiter from mainhand (which I used to taunt, not recommended unless your unpatient), thats why the spider was right away after me, even though Twisted/Hal tried their best to protect me. Sorry for that.:blink:
But after finetuning and some soothing words of our mighty dark lord:worshippy: we started to get aquainted to the fight and then...I think it was/is really easy.
So, I agree with Slush, should be farm content.
Quote from: TeaLeaf;328500Got a Windows PC to play on or are you restricted to Linux?
During the day I play on my Windows based work laptop when on long boring calls. Running the occasional 5-man is the limits of it though.
I've asked the GTFO author if he can help here - http://wow.curse.com/downloads/wow-addons/details/gtfo.aspx#975580
my first boss encounter with FL- damn good fun !
i got saddled with healing hal on the upper part to start with- i was a little daunted but after a few tries it seems pretty easy to me,(binding heal is sooo handy) but then me and hal encounted the "thick web"- basically we were hopping up and down next to a thick bit of webbing, trying to get over it- seeing the "spew of doom timer" ticking away... we ran in toward the boss and hopped over the "thick web"- not to all who go up- be aware of this.
we had a few wipes, then tirk had to bail due to laag issues, shame as we had a v good healing team
jas joined, and promptly went top of the death meters- poor jas, got all the bad dice thrown at him :/
after clearing "cough rockbiter Cough" issues, we proceeded into phase 2- i let off my aoe heal about 1 sec too early, and, well the raid died- FECK !
our 2nd attempt into phase 2- spider died- although the last bit is a dps/healing race, i find that my PoH+ disc spec really works well due to the mitigation being a auto proc now, and can usually hold 30-50k before dropping off, this helps stablise the raid and let the dps really get their teeth into the boss, and this helps the other healers with raid wide heals, its a tough part- no doubt about it!
That said it was a tight fight-
2 tanks died at the end due to high spike damage, and the kiss debuff, but it went down, not a clean kiss as we`d like,but it died !
But given a few weeks the raid will fill out some more with better kit- and become a big spider bat, that will walk it... yes we will !
overall- great fight, really came together in the end, not perfect, but we can aim for 1 shots once we have better kit
keep up the good work guys
One of the dps issues was not having the additional taunts sorted at the bottom. On the first kill, the first 3 were taunted. On this kill there was some ongoing confusion about who needed to taunt what and that's my partly fault as RL for not explaining what was needed. The result was we did not get our dps up there until the 3rd spinner died, which is slower than the 3rd one being taunted, but avoids a forgotten weapon buff not being over-written.
Spinners come down in pairs and this is what you need to know.
1. There are more than 4 per phase, it's about 8, so dps cannot forget about them. I spent most of the fight trying to keep dots up on all of them.
2. They arrive in pairs.
3. First pair is taunted by the upstairs tank/healer combo and they take the threads up to the web.
3. Second pair needs 1 taunted for the melee dps to go upstairs.
Upstairs tank handles first 2 taunts for him and his healer.
Downstairs tank handles a taunt from the second pair to give the dps a third thread to use.
We don't care about taunting the other spinners, we just dps them and heal through their single target spells.
As far as I can work out from the logs, this is how we spent our time last night on Beth'tilac:
Try 1: Upstairs tank & healer failed to get down before Smoldering Devastation hit - WIPE
Try 2: Melee dps 'taunted' boss - WIPE
Try 3: Melee dps 'taunted' boss - WIPE
Try 4: Melee dps 'taunted' boss - WIPE
Try 5: Upstairs healer got aggro (no tank/tank fall) - WIPE
Try 6: Upstairs healer got aggro (no tank/tank fall) - WIPE
Try 7: Upstairs healer got aggro (no tank/tank fall) - WIPE
Try 8: Lost MT, heavy damage
Try 9: Melee dps failed to get down before Smoldering Devastation hit - WIPE
Try 10 Healer failed to get down before Smoldering Devastation hit - WIPE
Try 11 *not sure what happened here*
Try 12 - KILL
In Future
You can see that we wasted a lot of tries and time on stuff that we can and should easily avoid. That has to be our focus in the future. We only raid 3 times a week for 3 hours each time, so we need to learn to be more effective when we do raid if we want decent progress.
Tank Damage
Slightly confused by Twisted taking less damage than Hal on this fight from Beth when tnaking up on the web, as DK tanks are generally accepted as having lower EHP than palas in Cata. Anyone got any ideas on why this might be? Other than making sure we have some kind of incoming damage buff up at all times eg ancestral/insp.
Quote from: TeaLeaf;328522Tank Damage
Slightly confused by Twisted taking less damage than Hal on this fight from Beth when tnaking up on the web, as DK tanks are generally accepted as having lower EHP than palas in Cata. Anyone got any ideas on why this might be? Other than making sure we have some kind of incoming damage buff up at all times eg ancestral/insp.
I tend to pop a +dodge trinket on my way up as I know the healer will be not available for a few seconds.
Nah, this seemed pretty consistent. Hal was typically getting humped for 50ks, you were 30ks. That sort of difference, we were discussing it on TS in officer channel as Whitey was looking at the live logs during the run and he picked it up.
maybe his blood shield is soaking up that much, or that i`m slapping a shield on him b4 he goes up- althought it wouldnt explain the constant 20k less than hal... dunno- maybe some dk :norty:"magic":norty:
One thing to note .... As the tank /healer combo head up top of the web .... Tank should pick the close thread and the healer far. If it's the other way around the boss will sometimes take a swipe at the healer before the tank can get in range. It lets you both go up at "almost" the same time safely
Right, my views on going up the web:
We've found the simplest way to tank the boss is all gathered infront of him for aoe healing and having him facing away from the hole in the middle. 1st time move clockwise for each fire patch, 2nd time anti, 3rd time clockwise again as the 1st lot despawn during the second.
When I drop down I have 15 seconds or so to rush dps the nearest thing before I'm hunting spiders to take me up again so don't expect any sort of damage help from us 3.
What are people's view on the bottom?
Found an alternate stategy for this boss, thats for dealing with over adds, basicly P1 first go a (best DPS u got) tank and healer go up, DPS blows everything the have i mean rip the crap outta beth, then jump down, when they next go up only the tank and healer go and DPS stays downstairs to DPS adds down (guilds in 353 gear have used this and downed boss from 90% health) also marking the 3 spawn area's of the spiders with floating icons would probably help
also this may help RGW with the DPS sorting as our DPS planning was all over place for first 6 attempts
Ranged DPS | Spiderlings -> Spinners -> Drone
Ranged DPS | Spiderlings -> Spinners -> Drone
Melee DPS | Spinners -> Drone -> Spiderlings
Ranged DPS| Spinners -> Drone -> Spiderlings
Ranged DPS| Spinners -> Drone -> Spiderlings
obviously we dont have 4 ranged we have 3 so would need changing to suit combined with the stategy above i think this would work well
Now, we are having alot of trouble with this fight, either its the DPS not getting the adds down quick enough or its our healer(s), downstairs, getting out of mana.
Checking the logs, we are down a full 10K dps(e) compared to RGT, now I know RGT has better gear but I full 10K is certainly to much, also because the dps has a 7-8K difference.
I think(since I was upstairs) this is due to to much movement. So we need to be discussing this problem and I would like to input from people that are downstairs.
Now the healing problem, I asked whitey to go up for the first few tries, he couldnt manage, so I went up(since Moonslash is raidbuild). However then there wasnt enough healing downstairs since Moonslash got oom pretty quick.
So we need to get a solution for this aswell, maybe swapping healers like, first time "insert name" goes up, second time.... ect ect.
because I certainly think we shouldnt be in T11 instances anymore, and should, gearwise, be in Firelands.
Quote from: vladic;328978also this may help RGW with the DPS sorting as our DPS planning was all over place for first 6 attempts
Ranged DPS | Spiderlings -> Spinners -> Drone
Ranged DPS | Spiderlings -> Spinners -> Drone
Melee DPS | Spinners -> Drone -> Spiderlings
Ranged DPS| Spinners -> Drone -> Spiderlings
Ranged DPS| Spinners -> Drone -> Spiderlings
obviously we dont have 4 ranged we have 3 so would need changing to suit combined with the stategy above i think this would work well
I think you sum up one of our biggest problems in getting advancements on a fight: we switch too much in tactics. Every time we 'fail', we change tactics.
Drone did not go fast enough? More dps on drone. What do you mean, spinners were up too long? Ok, first spinners, then drone. Next try, different tactics.
Whenever you get a new task, it takes a while to feel completely comfortable with it (at least, it takes a few tries for me).
E.g. Hermioneg switching to the Spiderlings, without anyone realizing that the first batch of Spiderlings follows normal aggro rules instead of go straight for a drone, which lead to several deaths by Hermioneg . Me doing more dps on a drone, which resulted in the Spiderlings coming closer to the drone, which lead to more movement of the drone, which leads to less melee damage on the drone.
When we use a different tactic, everyone need to adjust. New task, new moments of low/high dps, new moments of high/low damage taking. The fight becomes less predictable, something goes wrong, ***PANIC!!! CHANGE TACTICS!!!!***
Part of this comes from lacking a strong tactical raid leader, one who in a split second can analyze what's going wrong and what's going ok (like TL). Several people try to step in, and we get our well known RGW chaos.
Somehow we will have to appoint a tactical raid leader in our group, one that prepares the fights better than the rest (for all classes), that defines the tactics, and makes sure we stick to it. It also means that the rest of the group will have to accept that person as the tactical raid leader, listen to him/her and execute the tactics defined.
i thought that was dreaman?
We dont really change tactics alot, we tweek them.
we tweek on occasion but even i gotta admit we change the rotations around that much and never put people immediatly on there strengths (Hermi and Lego are AOE masters yet Hermi for first 4 attempts was DPSing i dont know what) that we do change tactics quite often or never consider tactics that, we need to have a dedicated pre meditated strategy (like that small one i posted above) and no offence but we need to put it on an individual post or a macro so that RGW can actually read it or find it amongs all these comments, as lets face it, we dont raid the same as RGT, we arnt as geared and we havnt got the same group composition, we need to find existing strategys not just the one RGT used and see which one works best for us.
RGT is RGT and we are RGW, diffrent mind sets and play styles and we need to stick to ours.
and before i get flamed for "its the boss compendium" yes i know its a boss compendium but its also a large and messy boss compendium being commented and changed regularly with 2 different RG trying to use it with the 2nd possibly trying to imitate the first, we need a new folder or thread or something for RGW to post our tactics and such in detail for us to read without it being burried under 500 comments that may follow.
Vladic
I don't think trying to do the boss in totally different ways is going to help...I agree you need to tweak things for the raid makeup tho it better to look at what we know should work and then find out why it isn't. Use what we already know or you could end up with 90+ wipes on Ryolith like Rgt had. When things seem to go wrong its easy to blame the tactics but stick with it don't re invent the wheel. Look at the logs find what was going wrong and then adjust
We ran this with two melee last night and did the same thing we tried on Monday night in RGW with the kitty going upstairs and warrior full time on drone when it was up. The main difference was the amount of dps going out 100k v's the 73k we had on Monday night.
As long as you have a slower and a ranged on the small adds ( hunter / mage / rogue with slowing poison / DK ) it should not be a problem getting the small ones down.
Just be sure you always slow them to give your self some more time and other people dont have to switch to help out.
Our biggest + is ofcourse TL multi dotting all other mobs so that they go down. Dont you have a moonkin in your group that could do the same?
Anyway.. it should not matter if you have 1 /2 /3 melee in as long as you have slows on small adds and have your best melee on top to get the boss down to +/- 80%
Quote from: hubbah;329099Anyway.. it should not matter if you have 1 /2 /3 melee in as long as you have slows on small adds and have your best melee on top to get the boss down to +/- 80%
We had Lego doing the slows, that part was fine. We didn't have enough dps on the drones and spinners were still up long after they should have been down.
Quote from: Whitey;329096The main difference was the amount of dps going out 100k v's the 73k we had on Monday night.
Well, 73k is not getting this boss down. DPS will increase the more you get used to the fight, though.
According to the best try (Try4) on monday, you did 79k in total dps. This is where you reached 5:17 minutes.
You should work from that point. Not from what dps RGT has available, and how they do it.
First off, lets look at that very good try you had:
Tanks:Treach was on Beth (up) and when he jumped down, where he did damage to drone. Had loads of self-heals. Sounds good.
Sharpfang was on Drones (down) trying to run away from Spiderlings. Sounds good.
Healers:Dreaman was on Treach (up) and probably did Manatotem when he jumped down for the first time. If he did he should have had 3 throughout the fight. 78% of Dreamans heals went to Drea,Treach,Päls. This sounds good.
Whitey was on Sharpfang, he did good. Whiteys healing was ok. But; he doesnt have the healing experience. So the total output was somewhat low.
Moonslash was on group downstairs, but also watched Sharpfang.
Healers downstairs was probably having some manaissues when things got hot (http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/7iuh7dcwrcxoz1ia/deaths/?s=7678&e=7995) in the start of p2.
DPS:Herm was on spinners and drones. Pretty straightforward. Low dps for her though, only 10.5k. Did she run in AoE spec?
Lego was on Spiderlings (http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/7iuh7dcwrcxoz1ia/analyze/dd/target/?source=0&s=7678&e=7995)... What happened when spiderlings dead here? Isnt there any Drones up? Or are there consistant waver of Spiderlings, because you are the only one on it? Btw; Amazing AoE dps.
Päls was on Beth upstairs, and drone when jumped down. And should also innervate downstairs healer, but should also do more DPS when getting used to this properly.
Sith had multiple tasks here, he was on Spiderlings when they were up -> Then drones. But, when p2 started.. he started dpsing Beth. In this transition phase, all that matters is killing the spinners/drones/spiderlings. Gonna be good.
Vlad was stunning. Look at this chart (http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/7iuh7dcwrcxoz1ia/analyze/dd/target/?source=6&s=7678&e=7995), it shows how he was switching back and forth between spinners and drones without having downtime on his dps.
You did great. Follow that track and you will kill this boss very soon. Its just a matter of tweaking out more dps, more hps and staying alive.
One thing I have to say though; Shamans are amazing group/aoe healers and should stay down in this fight.
Mana conservation and survivability; This things should be dealt with on TS. Call when placing a totem or when doin a hymn. Call when innervating, make good use of your CDs. Dont look at your own mana bar, look at others mana bars. I recomend you to look through the logs for this try (http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/7iuh7dcwrcxoz1ia/sum/healingDone/?s=7678&e=7995). The recipe is there.
I agree slush, ideally I would have been up and we did try that for the first couple of tries but it's my offspec on an alt and couldn't keep the tank up. The healing only became an issue when we had too many spinners up with the drone(s) and then we had the AOE damnage from Beth when the top tank/healer/dps came down. So gettting the spinners and drones down quicker (why I mention the dps) would make this an easy kill.
Yeh, did some edits to my last post... The conclusion is; Keep doing it like this, but push harder on the dps buttons and its a kill.
Edit again; You dont have to push the dps-buttons harder if you push them more often.