http://ptr.wowhead.com/npc=54097
Short fight tactics, will be updated once live versions appear...
Fight being changed a loooooot on PTR, will update properly once live hits.
-Have DPS get the flight buff, fly through rings for self buffs. Nuke boss.
-Rest on ground deal with adds in aoe bonanza.
-When he lands, deal with the aoe fiesta.
http://25man.com/firelands/alysrazor
Nice guide here:
http://www.icy-veins.com/alysrazor-detailed-strategy
This will follow Baleroc. Prep up and be ready!
From Tankspot:
Quote from: Aggathon;515679Tankspot Raid Guides 10 Man Edition: Alysrazor (Normal)
This fight is probably one of the hardest so far on 10 man simply because it is so compartmentalized and every person needs to do their part. As with most strategies there is more than one way to skin a cat and alysrazor is no different. We did many iterations and the version stated in this guide might not work out for you, but I’ll say the two most common setups:
The first is the 3 healer setup, You have 3 healers, 2 tanks, 5 dps. I strongly encourage to have 4 DPS on the ground phase and 1 in the air, I’ll explain later. Basically this version takes longer, however it may be more stable since you have 3 healers instead of two.
However, the way we finally did it, and the way I like best since it leads to a faster kill and subsequently less odds of someone messing up is 6 DPS, 2 healers, 2 tanks.
Okay, so enough of the babble about setup that you might not understand because you haven’t tried the fight yet so you don’t even know what I mean by on the ground or in the air.
Here’s a brief summary of how the fight goes, I will get more into the details as I go into the strategy.
According to the Dungeon Journal, Alysrazor has 4 phases. I think it’s more like 2, there’s phase 1 where people are killing adds pretty much, and there’s phase 2 where all the DPS are laying into the boss. Phase 1 starts when you pull the boss and will repeat once phase two is over. Phase 1 is a lot about add management. There are several jobs:
Flying people. These are people that pick up 3 feathers right off the bat and fly in the air chasing Alysrazor.
Blazing Initiate DPS â€" these people are in charge of killing blazing initiates during phase 1 and blazing initiates are their number 1 priority, especially interrupting. Blazing initiates cast a spell called fireoblast, and if an initiate gets off more than a couple casts, it is highly likely to wipe you if not give you some significant problems.
Tanks killing voracious hatchlings. Some brief time into phase 1 after the first blazing initiates have spawned but usually before the second, two big fiery eggs will fall to the ground. Your tanks need to run over and each get close to one. Whoever is closest to the egg gets a debuff called imprinted. Imprinted makes that hatchling focus the imprinted target for the entire time it is alive or the imprinted target dies and it also allows the imprinted target to do 1,000% increased damage against the hatchling that has imprint on it. Sorry no fun revenge cleave damage here.
Alysrazor is going to fly around in the air. When she does this she will spawn two things in the air behind her, either incendiary clouds or fire rings. The people flying want to fly through the fire wings because it increases the duration of wings of flame (allowing you to stay flying) and gives a buff that increases haste by 8% per stack and stacks up to 25 times (200% haste). I’ll have an entire section about these guys more below. Occasionally alysrazor will do what I like to call a strafing run and will fly low to the ground and do an AoE claw in the middle of the room along the north/south line. Sometimes she’ll start from the north and go south, sometimes south and go north, the big thing here is just DON’T STAND IN THE MIDDLE.
Alysrazor will do this strafing run 3 times (once when you pull her/the phase starts and then twice during phase 1). Each time she will drop more feathers. I’ll detail this in the actual strategy section though. When the timer for molting comes up the 4th time (or 3rd depending on if you count the first strafe of the phase as one of the strafing runs) then phase 2 starts.
FEATHERS: I’m going to take this time to talk about feathers. Whenever Alysrazor does a strafing run, she spawns a bunch of feathers behind her. I think it’s somewhere between 8 and 10 I don’t remember at the moment. These feathers give you a buff that stacks. Each stack increases your runspeed by 30%, and if you get 3, you are able to fly around in the air. Unless you are an air DPS, don’t get 3, it’s not worth it and may hog feathers from others that need them. The runspeed buff also allows you to cast while moving! It’s pretty legit. I’d favor allowing healers and tanks to get feathers after the two people that fly up to DPS. It’s really nice for phase 2 if everyone can have at least 1 stack of the runspeed buff
Phase 2:
The most important thing about phase two is: DON’T GET HIT BY TORNADOES. At the start of phase two, your only job is to not get hit by tornadoes. If people who were flying and have the ridiculous speed increase can get the fire rings on the ground safely then get them, but if you weren’t a flying DPS don’t worry about the rings, just DO NOT DIE TO TORNADOES. I cannot stress this enough. There will be a big tornado in the middle of the room, so don’t stay in the middle of the room and people flying need to get close to the ground so they don’t die to fall damage or get hit by harsh winds. From the big tornado in the room several tornadoes will spawn outwards and then proceed to move in circular patterns around the room in random clockwise or counter-clockwise positions. I suggest watching a video for this because it’s hard to explain, but the tornadoes do move quickly.
I will take this time to interject some tips/strategies about tornadoes:
Clipping a single tornado is survivable, if you barely hit one it’s no big deal, it’s when you get full on railed by one or hit multiple tornadoes that you’ll die. Don’t take this as a license to hit tornadoes, far from it in fact. Just relax about this phase and it’s okay if you slightly mess up, it doesn’t have to be perfect, but you do have to not suck at it.
CAMERA DISTANCE. Try to put your environment distance and your camera as far out as possible for this, the right camera angle and a far distance so you can see both in front and behind you and see what tornadoes are coming is very important. Sometimes Alysrazor will fly over you and will sort of mess up your camera angle, so just be prepared for it and know how to compensate or move your camera angle quickly if it becomes a problem.
My personal favorite strategy to avoid tornadoes is really simple, since the tornadoes are in “lanes†I’ve simply just stood in one lane until a tornado was about to hit me, then stepped into the next lane, then strafed back. It’s almost non-stop moving because the tornadoes move so fast, but even without a speed buff I was able to effectively avoid tornadoes this way
In case this doesn’t work I have some other suggestions that other people have told me that worked for them. It kind of relies on getting 1 or 2 feathers that lay on the ground after alysrazor does her strafing runs.
Follow a tornado until one passes you on the left or right then follow that one, rinse, repeat. If you don’t have a runspeed buff then this is pretty much just what I said in 3), heh
Run towards tornadoes and move out of their way and quickly back into its lane when it passes. I personally don’t like this method because I think it increases the likelihood of getting clipped as you dodge a tornado coming at you, but some people swear by it so I thought I’d mention it.
Hookay, now that you’ve survived the tornadoes, on to the rest of phase 2. Once the Tornadoes are done (I think they last about 30 seconds) alysrazor lies vulnerable in the middle of the room trying to regain fire energy. She summons two adds to her side that try to channel more fire energy into her. While she’s on the ground she takes double damage or something big like that. If you have a clean transition you’ll want to bloodlust here. The two adds that she summons can be dealt with by stunning/interrupting them, however don’t worry about trying to kill them, they have too many HPs to be worth it and I don’t even know if you can, just DPS the boss, that’s the important thing. Have tanks worry about controlling the two adds to extend the burn phase as long as possible.
Once Alysrazor reaches 50 energy, she will come back up. At this point a tank needs to taunt and the entire rest of the raid should stack up somewhere that is NOT in front of her because she will start doing her AoE cleave thing but she has to be tanked during this. This is a good place for tank cooldowns and after this let the adds that give her fire energy give her the fire energy asap, because once she hits 100 she gets out of this phase. She also does an AoE hellfire like thing that needs to be healed through, and once she hits 100 fire energy she will knock everyone back for 50k, so everyone needs to be above 50k when this happens. Again, good time for cooldowns.
Live through that and phase 1 starts again. Rinse and repeat, but the 3rd time alysrazor lands, she will do an enrage and will not ignite and go back in the air, your tanks have to just constantly tank her and they will die fairly quickly. However if none of your raiders are dying and the 2 DPS in the air are doing their jobs, then hitting the enrage shouldn’t be an issue.
The strategy: Okay so I ‘ve already typed almost 4 pages and I haven’t even gotten to the real strategy yet. I guess I talked about Phase 2 a lot, but Phase 1 is still pretty vague. So here’s why you bring 6 DPS, 2 healers, and 2 tanks. It’s all about phase 1.
I’ll start off by talking about what the air DPS do and detail that. A lot of people seem to have problems with it (and even I still sometimes mess up, it’s fairly exacting to fly around while holding your rotation and avoiding clouds and flying through rings before they despawn).
Flying:
After picking up 3 feathers you will gain the “wings of flame†buff. It initially lasts for 20 seconds so you then have 20 seconds to fly through a fire ring to keep the buff up. This buff is DIIFFERENT than the Blazing Power DEBUFF. The Blazing Power Debuff has a much longer duration (I think about 40 seconds or something) and are not an indication of how long you will be in the air. Upon passing through a fire ring, the maximum amount of time you have to fly through another ring is only 15 seconds. So another way to say that is that flying through a ring only resets the timer on wings of flame to 15, not 20.
There are some tricky things to flying. First, don’t panic too badly about incendiary clouds. At least on normal you can hit a few and be fine, they won’t knock you out of the air or anything but they will do damage and you will be flying too high in the air to be healed back up by your healers for the most part. Avoid them as you can but if you have to hit one for a ring or accidentally hit one it’s not a huge deal unless you are hitting a lot of them and die, in which case it is a big deal and you may have just wiped your raid.
The other tricky part is when Alysrazor does her strafing runs and flies close to the ground. When she does this she will always spawn the fire rings above her, and she will summon 3 fire rings when she does this. However, she will also spawn 2 incendiary clouds for every 1 fire ring. They will be directly above her lined up horizontally. It’s late and I don’t have time to photoshop something or make an MS paint pic, so hopefully you can either see this in a video or my word picture is good enough. The fire ring is not always in the same place for different strafing runs, but for the same strafing one it will always be in the same place relative to Alysrazor for all 3 spawns… let me explain.
.....X...X...X
-->X...X...X -->
.....O...O...O
Okay well in Word that looks nice and pretty, but I have no idea if it will format right. Anyways the arrows show the direction alysrazor is flying in and the Os are the rings of fire and the Xs are the incendiary clouds. So on this particular strafing run you want to be on alysrazor’s right side because that is where all of the rings will spawn . The next time she does a strafing run though, the rings might be in the middle and the incendiary clouds on the left and right sides of her. I really hope this isn’t confusing but I know it probably is. When I make a video of this I’ll try to be more clear.
Why is this important? Because while it is always important to keep your wings of flame buff up, it is the most important here, because if you miss the last ring of the strafing run, you will lose the buff unless you are very lucky and time it perfectly because after the strafing run it is about 10 seconds before alysrazor spawns another ring, so if you only got the 2nd ring of the 3 in the strafing run, the time from getting the second buff to the new ring spawning is about 15 seconds and you’ll lose the buff and fall to your death and die. If you do miss this ring, fly to the ground, find a feather, wait for wings of flame to fall because grabbing a feather will not refresh the timer, and click on the feather after you lose your buff and you’ll go right back into the air.
I highly suggest setting up a timer or a poweraura or something to keep track of your wings of flame buff timer in a heads up fashion. If you mess up and have time to fly to the ground so that you don’t fall to your death, it could save your raid, or it might let you know if you accidentally missed a ring or something.
I’m also going to dispel more rumors about the rings. Some people have been saying that when 1 person flies through the ring it disappears, this is simply not true. It may look like it, but it’s not true. The rings only last for 3 seconds and ANYONE that flies through it while it is up will gain a stack of blazing power. After 3 seconds it goes away. Dems da truths.
If you’re a pro and get over 25 rings of fire, you’ll gain a buff called Alysra’s Razor and it will increase your critical strike chance by 75%. If you get a couple of rings during tornadoes to keep this buff up, then your alysra’s razor buff and your 200% haste buff will still be up during the burn phase and you can do some serious damage. It’s pretty fun.
Ideal classes for flying:
Some say melee are good, this is for two reasons. The first is that the DPS on the ground have to move a lot, so it hampers melee because they have to move more, and the second is that melee can’t get GCD spell casting capped, that is that melee’s attack speed gets the full benefit of the 200% haste, but some casters will just get GCD capped and won’t get the full benefit, however DoT classes will still get the benefit of the haste, so affliction locks and shadowpriests also make good choices for the air. I actually like melee on the ground, the melee I’ve sent have been smart about initiate spawns and are very valuable for interrupting fireoblast, which is critical to the fight. The BEST class seems to be fire mages though. They do ridiculous DPS. You might think that arcane mages would be awesome especially with the mana return they could just spam arcane blast, but really they can’t, the mana regen isn’t enough, even as affliction I’ve had to life tap a couple times because towards the end of the fight I was just dumping mana like crazy. So really all that happens is arcane mages get GCD capped and do OKAY damage, but fire is better.
Okay so now that you’ve all graduated from flight school… time for ground school (har… see what I did there, can you tell I’m writing this at 1am?).
PICTURE TIME!
There's a problem with the picture, currently working on fixing it. For some reason I can't just make it show up as a picture but here's the link to the picture! (http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/3229/alysrazorstageonepositi.jpg)
Our feral druid was kind enough to make this picture Vibra and Alathia are our two healers, so we split the 8 people left in the raid downstairs into two groups, and east group and a west group. Each group has at least 1 DPS that can interrupt, 1 tank, 1 healer, and 1 more ranged DPS. DPS Shamans are great for this fight if they spec into the 5 second interrupt thingy, they can get every fireoblast.
You’ll also note the spawn locations. When the initiates first spawn, they spawn two at a time at a set timer. I’m pretty sure that once you kill them a timer starts for the next one to come down, so if you kill them quickly your DPS should have time to help out your tanks on your respective sides a little bit to get the voracious hatchlings down. Watch out for brushfire (which CANNOT be interrupted, don’t try) and plump lava worms. Taking avoidable damage will stress your healers. Tanks, if there is a plump lava worm on top of a blazing initiate, eat it early it will probably be overall less raid damage.
So anyways, the first initiates that spawn will be in the north east and the south west, so 2 DPS from the west group will go to the south west spawn and kill it then immediately head to the north east spawn point where the 2nd initiate will spawn, rinse repeat. There will be 2 DPS that do the same on the east side but they will start with the north east spawn then the second spawn on their side will be the south east spawn. With interrupts on every fireoblast and DPS being careful of avoidable damage, this is easily two healable and the adds should die quickly.
Tanking: So I mentioned earlier that the tanks will get imprinted and do 1000% increased damage against their voracious hatchling. This is true and the tanks will do a butt load of damage, but sometimes it’s not quite enough to get them down on their own, so if DPS have downtime between initiates, help with the hatchlings but make sure initiates are still your number 1 priority, not interrupting fireoblast will wipe the raid, mainly because when the initiates do cast fireoblast, they get a buff that increases their damage and I think cast speed.
So ya, enough about the initiates, on to the tanking. The hatchlings will start out with a debuff called “satiated†and when they have this they will not enrage. It lasts for 15 seconds and can be refreshed by dragging a voracious hatchling over to a plump lava worm where the hatchling will eat the worm, get satiated, and the lava worm will go away. However, when the bird is not satiated it will have a debuff called “hungry†and when they are “hungry†each melee attack has a chance to make them throw a “tantrum.†Tantrum itself is the actual enrage, not hungry. Since there will not be enough plump lava worms to ensure that the voracious hatchlings will never be hungry there are a few tricks the tanks need to pull off. First, wait to get a lava worm until the worm is actually throwing a tantrum. This increases the time you can go without needing to eat a worm. However, if a lava worm is just in a really bad spot and you need to eat it so that the DPS can kill initiates, then do it. Otherwise you’re just going to have to tank the enrages. If you know you’re going to have to tank tantrum (which only lasts 4 seconds), call it out so your healer is aware and/or save a cooldown for it. Shield block is awesome here, but even minor trinkets or enraged regen may be enough, especially if the DPS aren’t letting fireoblast go off and the healer is on his/her toes for your side. If you have to, shield wall or barksin or whatever to stay alive here. The only other place a tank needs a cooldown is perhaps at the end of the burn phase when Alysrazor is between 50-100 energy.
The voracious hatchlings need to die before the tornadoes activate, and once the timer for phase 2 is below 30 seconds, no more initiates will spawn so that is the DPS’s mark to finish up any initiates that are up and help finish off the hatchlings.
Anyways, this guide is now 7 pages long and I fairly thoroughly explained what to do in phase 2 up top, so just scroll up to read it.
I’m sorry that this guide may have seemed kind of ramble-y, but as you can tell there is a lot of information in this fight and on 10 man, the devil is in the details. I really hope this guide helps people. As usual ask questions or feel free to PM me. Hopefully this guide is still coherent even when I was writing it so late at night. Happy Hunting!
Also: sorry I haven't had the time to put up more guides, I will put them out as I can.
Sooo.. in order to make this less wall-of-text-y. Based on that Tankspot guide. Find your role and learn what to do! :-) :
------------Phase 1-----------
Alysrazor flies overhead in circles and does a fly-by over the ground through the middle 3 times (north to south and south to north), after which Phase 2 starts.
Everyone
- Avoid the middle from north to south due to fly-by's.
- Pick up 1-2 feathers, 3 if you're flying. Especially 2 if you are melee-ing the Initiates.
Tanks
- Stand next to your egg to pick up the Voracious Hatchling. You (as tank) have to kill these mostly on your own. You get a 1000% dmg boost.
- When your Hatchling is throwing Tantrum pull them over Lava Worms. <--this is situational and may need on-the-spot change. For example a Lava Worm may be a nuissance so you have to deal with it before a Tantrum on your Hatchling.
- Hatchling needs to be down before Phase 2.
Healers
- Divide into two groups, one for west and one for east.
- Heal stuff
Ground DPS
- Get 1-2 feathers (2 if you're melee I guess) for run speed boost
- Divide into two groups, one for west and one for east.
- Kill Initiates, they spawn north and south of your area, in a set order.
- Important: Interrupt their Fieroblast. If they cast this they get a 10% dmg and cast speed buff, making the next one harder to interrupt, and snowballing out of control
- When you have time to spare help with Voracious Hatchling, but prio on Initiates.
Air DPS
- Get 3 feathers to go airborne
- Keep up your flying buff (originally 15 seconds I think) by flying through hoops. Also stacks a haste buff up to 200%
- Avoid the fire clouds
--------------Phase 2------------
Alysrazor lands in the middle, starts sending tornadoes in circular motion around the room. They each have their own lane (think Dante's circles of hell (http://infernoerrorifico.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/upper-hell.jpg) to name a random example) and must be avoided. This phase lasts for about 30 seconds.
Everyone
- Avoid the tornadoes. They fly pretty fast but there's a pretty simple strategy
- Follow one, until another passes you by on either side, then turn, skip a lane and follow that one instead, rinse and repeat. See the Tankspot Vid below, makes perfect sense.
--------------Phase 3-----------
Alysrazor is tired from the fire tornadoes and takes a breather. She is in the middle and does nothing whatsoever in this phase. Two (one on 10man?) adds spawn that channel a spell into her that gives her back Molten Power. At 50 of this, she gets back up into Phase 4.
Tanks
- Pick up these adds and offtank them.
- Interrupt their channel whenever you can to make this phase last as long as possible.
- Adds disappear after this phase, they fly off.
Everyone else
- Burn burn, for us, for them, for you! Yes, even healers. Hitting her restores resource (mana, energy, RP, etc.), so make good use of this.
--------------Phase 4-----------
She gets back up and a normal ground fight starts. Seems pretty tank-n-spank, though healer intensive. You'll want to blow raidwalls and other cooldowns here.
Tanks
- Tank her facing away from the raid as she does a frontal attack.
- She does a debuff that increases your damage taken by 10%, so you need to tankswap (vid says 6-7 stacks)
Healers
- Loads of tank and raid damage in this phase, heavy healing
Everyone else
- Keep DPSing.
When reaching 100 Molten Power she will fly back into the air resuming Phase 1. She also leaves another bunch of feathers on the ground which the flyer(s) need to use asap to get back into the air.
Rinse repeat, grab loot :-)
And here's a video (25 man, but a lot of principles apply)!
[video=youtube;1t7xzTtr1pk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1t7xzTtr1pk[/video]
It seems quite interesting as dps. About healing, the amount of AoE dmg going on is quite scary...
EDIT:I've read many posts about it and all of them agreed that it's all about surviving.
seems your gonna need some good S*x then!
Errmmm fun / wondering tries it where for me.....
Started with my normal job dps and interrupts.
I have just 1 thing to add as it seemed an isseu when i swapped to tank.
I did the interrupts the first few tries on the left side with 1 interrupted and then i had to let one go as mine interrupt was still on cooldown and hit the other cast again.
First few tries i was on my own doing that. later on Nocto helped out aswell with a few interrupts but we missed 1 to 3 of those casts for 2/3 mobs that where alive during those tries because both on cooldown or dps'ing the crap out of something (or maybe even trusting the other player has this one and i have the next)
But for me missing 2 out of the 5 casts the add will do when you have 2 dps on it aint a problem. The add was fully focused with those casts on the person near him (that would be me) so i took the damage what aint much. Plus the interrupts where still very easy for someone like me (a melee class)
So i don't know what the real fuss was all about when the right side also came in that position to do it. It was mentioned on TS that the boss would also get a buff?? is that correct then in that case yeah it is a problem but otherwise i don't see a very big problem. As long there are 2 dps downing them. 1 dps won't make it as we noticed later on.
Whirlwind phase is short and doable as long as you have the speed buff!!.
Burn phase says enough NUKE HIM!!!
For me as dps i don't had real problems with this fight. What might be a problem is that i can do 1 out 2 interrupts needed if you want all interruptible casts interrupted.
Also Tanks won't be able to help out on this as i noticed that when i was a tank......
now my wondering part.....
I Had almost no clue as what i was doing as a tank!!!!!!!!!!... At some point i was really asking myself how do i get that dps done like Hal did...
It was all new for me and i wasn't prepared to go tanking and i think i am the 4th tank for rgt and doesn't have the gear lvls as the 3 others or the experience in cata..
So yeah i started a bit scared but the last few tries i had my add under controll for my own feeling. I started to learn when to get to a worm and when to stay away from them. (i was at the end still unable to make the calls to the healers) that because i still had almost no clue on what i was doing and i was freaking busy getting the add away from other people that where moving all around the area also in the middle infront of the adds that do a nice cleave attack.. plus dancing around the 2 worms was a challenge (what i found pretty fun)
getting the speed buff wasn't a problem at all. Yeah i started with 1 at the start of the fight but i found it not needed at that point. Just a bit later i had loads of feathers to pick up in time before i really needed the speed buff.
But i think my points arn't that helpfull for the tanks as i was the one running around like a headless chicken.. trying to do my best and help the guild out to see and learn the fight.
Up for a new round as a dps i hope ;) And kill him! i want that druid his staff so this one has to go down quick :narnar:
Tonight, 26th July 2011, on Alysrazor, I attempted to solo interrupt the Blazing Talon Initiate with my 5 second Interrupt. However I was found that in-order to get every single interrupt, I would have to be doing very little, if not no damage to the mob, in order to get my interrupt off in time for it's cooldown to have reset. This would be made increasingly harder up to the point where with the mob obtaining 2 stacks of casting speed increase (i.e. 2 Successful Casts) that I could no longer interrupt everyone.
This problem arises when the mob does not cast it's Burning Pitch (Uninterruptable), it normally would cast from landing: BP > Pieroblast > BP (if Pieroblast was interrupted), however I was finding that, after interrupting the first Pieroblast, it was not casting Burning Pitch (which would've given me enough time for the 5 second CD on my interrupt to complete), was I interrupting the Pieroblast too late? I'm using a /stopcasting macro (which should be instant) and so I cannot see the problem as i'm not getting a GCD in the way.
Having looked on the Forums it would seem that guilds have been running with a DK on one side (10 second interrupt), a Rogue and a Lock on the other side. Others on this same thread seem to suggest that missing one or 2 pieroblast casts did not matter, because their dps would have nuked it down by then. A shaman on this same thread suggests that grounding totem also affects it but with a 25 second CD that would mean that I would be able to get 3 interrupts on the First mob, and 2 (possibly 3 on the Second, dependant on if the CD was off by the time the 2nd mob comes, however the time between the arrival of the first and second mob is about 15 seconds, meaning that it may just be cut short, and making me unable to do this :sideways:.)
So what should we do?
We could run with 2 interrupters on either side, which worked before the break.
I could be more vigilant on interrupting and using grounding totem, which I've only just found out works.
Or I can interrupt the first cast, let the second one go, and interrupt the third, the only problem being that it would have a speed increase on the cast time. (On a side note, the spell casting of the mob is not alternate as we previously thought it is, if PB is successfully cast it will carry on to cast that spell again, untill interrupted, leaving no room for error.)
Link to the thread: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2878768490
Quote from: Nocto;329564Tonight, 26th July 2011, on Alysrazor, I attempted to solo interrupt the Blazing Talon Initiate with my 5 second Interrupt. However I was found that in-order to get every single interrupt, I would have to be doing very little, if not no damage to the mob, in order to get my interrupt off in time for it's cooldown to have reset. This would be made increasingly harder up to the point where with the mob obtaining 2 stacks of casting speed increase (i.e. 2 Successful Casts) that I could no longer interrupt everyone.
This problem arises when the mob does not cast it's Burning Pitch (Uninterruptable), it normally would cast from landing: BP > Pieroblast > BP (if Pieroblast was interrupted), however I was finding that, after interrupting the first Pieroblast, it was not casting Burning Pitch (which would've given me enough time for the 5 second CD on my interrupt to complete), was I interrupting the Pieroblast too late? I'm using a /stopcasting macro (which should be instant) and so I cannot see the problem as i'm not getting a GCD in the way.
Having looked on the Forums it would seem that guilds have been running with a DK on one side (10 second interrupt), a Rogue and a Lock on the other side. Others on this same thread seem to suggest that missing one or 2 pieroblast casts did not matter, because their dps would have nuked it down by then. A shaman on this same thread suggests that grounding totem also affects it but with a 25 second CD that would mean that I would be able to get 3 interrupts on the First mob, and 2 (possibly 3 on the Second, dependant on if the CD was off by the time the 2nd mob comes, however the time between the arrival of the first and second mob is about 15 seconds, meaning that it may just be cut short, and making me unable to do this :sideways:.)
So what should we do?
We could run with 2 interrupters on either side, which worked before the break.
I could be more vigilant on interrupting and using grounding totem, which I've only just found out works.
Or I can interrupt the first cast, let the second one go, and interrupt the third, the only problem being that it would have a speed increase on the cast time. (On a side note, the spell casting of the mob is not alternate as we previously thought it is, if PB is successfully cast it will carry on to cast that spell again, untill interrupted, leaving no room for error.)
Link to the thread: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2878768490
As you said that is what we were doing before the break and ideally wanted to carry on, but with the tank issues tonight it was an unorthodox way of doing it, and we couldn't have it any other way.
Feathers:
From my fraps last night we're seeing 8 feathers drop in the first pass. That means:
3 for Air person
1 for Tank
1 for Tank
1 for Healer
1 for Healer
1 for Healer
So as a rule, dps should not grab one until the second pass. Another 8 are dropped at the end of the burn phase (when we return to P1 again) so there should be 5 feathers for dps at that point.
Air Phase
Again frmo fraps it appears I could not exceed 25 stacks, so once I get 25 stacks I can stop following the dude and focus on dps only. I can dive into another ring of fire when I need to refresh, this should improve dps a fair chunk. I did not notice this last night so spent all the time once I had 25 stacks continuing to track & fly-through rings which I think dropped my dps a fair bit.
Interrupts
I think we need to run this fight with 4 interrupts, 2 for either side and we need to macro buddies so that we cover each relevant cast. We need this during P1 (with air phase) and again during the burn phase. We should not need to let *any* casts through if we do it correctly and I'm sure that with sufficient interrupters on the case that we'll succeed in this goal.
Raidwalls
Second half of the burn phase (with Alysrazor airborne but at ground level) we need to sort a raidwall order. Massive damage was coming in at that point. From Re-ignite to reaching Full-Power took 23 seconds, so we need to manage AOE heals and group faster at the start - it took us about 13 seconds to group up in the first place so we need to be primed and ready to stack on the chosen (green) mark.
Tanks
Tanks need to ensure the boss is immediately turned away from raid to the other marker in the burn phase. We also need to be more careful with tank switches in ground phase (second half of burn phase). We had a couple where it actually turned Alysrazor to face the raid and this caused the raid health to drop by 90% and almost wipe us! Do we need to stagger tanks to either side of the other marker, or do we just need to not taunt until you have run back into the correct position? Cleave on raid is bad!
Yeah definetly run with 2 interrupters. Running with 1 doesn't necessarily kill you as a dps but you'll kill them too slow so you'll run behind on adds. This, and not the getting hit by the initial few Fieroblasts, is what becomes the real problem as it leads to loose adds Fieroblasting the raid into oblivion.
A very good video I found from a tank p.o.v is a video from wowhobbs:
[video=youtube;xyC8KR9P4w0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyC8KR9P4w0[/video]
Quote from: TeaLeaf;329577Feathers:
Interrupts
I think we need to run this fight with 4 interrupts, 2 for either side and we need to macro buddies so that we cover each relevant cast. We need this during P1 (with air phase) and again during the burn phase. We should not need to let *any* casts through if we do it correctly and I'm sure that with sufficient interrupters on the case that we'll succeed in this goal.
I agree 100%, me and Torgen had 0 problems with our side, me with Spell lock and Torgen with Pummel. We didnt miss a single Fireoblast and the mob was dead after 2 casts.
well after my many mess ups i was surprised to be on the team still:oops:
i had a lot of problems to start with during the searing wind phase- where she whirls around, and creates the hurricanes of fiery death- i got crispyfied a few times- bhaa !
:sideways:
TL advice about staying closer to the middle worked a lot better:worship: - then i got a worm spawning under my feet(read healer in wrong place) and well 2 secs later i was soo toasted you coulnt tell what i was...
i found the key to the fight exactly as jas said- hover around you marker(tank should be around there not in the middle to be pawned by the bird angry bird...):withstupid:
after several crap attempts from myself to stay alive, it was announced the fiery trails left be the hurricanes DO NOT HURT... this was where i was going wrong- see fire- avoided fire- well not apparently on these ones !
the tank swap went really really smooth with all 3 healers alive "cough cough" and i slapped a few dots onto her when she was decked(helping dps and more importantly getting mana back)
The fight is not as mana intensive as balerok, but your still using a fair chunk
overall it came together perfectly at the end- awsome fight, and we have another boss on the dead by us board
:dmw::dmw::dmw:WD all:dmw::dmw::dmw:
P1 Air phase
P2 (All of the) Ground phase.
Groups split into Left & Right.
Raid markers placed left & right, roughly between where the two lava worms usually spawn.
Each group sticks to their side.
Group 1: tank, healer, 2 ground dps plus 1 Air DPS person
Group 2: tank, 2 healers, 2 ground dps
Pre-pull, identify which raid marker is the side the raid will group during the ground phase (P2).
Ranged dps put a Focus on Alysrazor at start of fight (you can dps her if you have nothing left to do)
Air DPS, Tanks & Healers use first feather drops
-Air DPS takes 3
-Tanks take 1
-Healers take 1 (and can now heal on the move)
Other DPS pick up feathers after first boss strafe run
Ground DPS prio BTI, then big bird, then boss (if you can)
When P2 Ground Phase starts cyclones will form - start moving towards the side you agreed to group up on.
The cyclones run in concentric rings, as Amber said, it is far easier to do this from an inner ring - rings 2 & 3 are recommended, avoid the innermost ring as you might stray too far into mid and get killed by a 35k/0.5 second debuff (I have personal experience of this!)
Cyclones move in alternate directions as you move outwards:
Ring 1: -------------->
Ring 2: <--------------
Ring 3: -------------->
Ring 4: <--------------
Ring 5: -------------->
Ring 6: <--------------
Pick a cyclone close to you and follow in its trail (the fire trail it leaves does no damage)
If a cyclone passes you on an adjacent ring (it will be going in the opposite direction (see diagram above) then turn 180 degrees and follow the cyclone in that new ring.
Each time a cyclone passes you in an adjacent ring turn 180 degrees and follow that cyclone.
The net effect is almost like turning in a circle between two rings.
If you are good then you can repeatedly turn in the area where there are the Fire Rings which then buff you multiple times ready for the burn phase.
When cyclones are gone, stack on the agreed side as close as possible to the boss - tanks make sure you are min range and not too far away for heals.
If you get a good transition into the burn phase then blow heroism immediately.
Interrupt the channeling adds.
When boss reaches 50% one tank needs to be in position to taunt.
Tanks split on 45 degree angles away from group and perpendicular to each other. Non-tanking tank stays with raid during AOE and then moves to position just prior to the taunt.
At this point start using 3 min CD raidwalls to aid healing during this AOE damage phase and continue to burn hard on the boss.
At end of burn phase boss does big AOE (knocks about 60% HP off raid and then you re-enter P1 again.
Rinse & repeat 3 times for kill.
DPS about one third of the boss per cycle.
We killed before end of third cycle and well before boss went airborne again into a fourth P1.
Hope this helps and includes all the notes/adjustments we made during the night.
With the kill on our name here is how i looked into this fight for my role.
First of all i started very rusty on this fight as i was getting used to a new ui and i still have to fine tune it.
So i was looking for some buttons from time to time:narnar:
Little druid adds went fine as long we had 2 dps on it. After a few tries the call for the right side to just play with 1 interrupt was a good call and worked out better with add dps.
(Nocto full time dps, who does more dps as ranged then a melee can in this fight, who also did an interrupt from time to time (yes i noticed that:devil:) and me as interrupter on the druids with interrupting 50% of the casts) With this setup the right side also had some extra time to help out our tank (Whytee) with killing his add.
Then whirlwind phase. If you have the speed buff then it is super easy as long as you stay away from the wall ;)
But i have to say for the ferals among us (with the 30% speed buff they standard have) a feather isn't needed. I had a try where i fully forgot to pick up the feathers and i hadn't had a problem with avoiding the whirlwinds (and i hadn't had the portal speed buff).
Then the burn phase. Simple nuke him!!!
We had that phase 3 times and as was mentioned to use my tranq during the fight i used it at the 3rd burn time (without getting called for) to give the healers some help at the end as the kill was getting closer.
For the ferals: Use beserk every burn phase! your beserk will be off cool down every time the new burn phase starts a nice way to boost up your dps and nuking the boss down.
Also something for all raid members:
Have the boss as a focus, when you have some spare time attack him.
For melee this is best done in whirlwind phase. He is flying around the room and you can just hit him while avoiding the whirlwinds. (all dps helps....)
:yahoo:Huge congratulations guys, very well done!:yahoo:
Just want to confirm you can do it with 1 interruptor on each side as the casts really don't hit too hard. You just need 2 dps so the druid dies fast enough. If not you're going to fall behind on adds. And one druid casting rampant fieroblasts at an ever increasing speed while you're still killing the other does get kind of inconvenient ;-) But as long as they die in time the dmg from 1-2 fieroblasts is easily manageable.
Also the tip for whirlwind phase is nice. Target the boss to hit it while running. :-)
Finally, I could be mistaken or just caught up in the adrenaline of the last few %, but I got the impression she stayed on the ground for a lot longer the 3rd time we did 2nd phase. Does she only do the whole cycle 3 times maybe?
She stayed on the ground longer as we got better interrupts in on the channelers.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]862[/ATTACH]
Positions for P1 .. Tanks and healers
1 side we got the inturupts great for the feiroblast...that was pals and DA the other side nims was great but hermi u got 1 in over 5 tries....its needs to improve...i know u have a long cd,but...
healing wise...lynx and drea great job....i struggled being in the middle people were just too spaced out and running here there and everywhere i was rubbish,so with the help of the map that Jas just posted maybe we can get a bit closer...but then it depends where the nasty dr00ds spawn....that is something i need to work on and bit more practise and it will be fine...
also dispells....cant think of the name but peeps get a nasty debuff...drea got 20 dispells, me 10....i respeced for this fight im glad i did....so other peeps that can dispell pls do so :)
The only debuff I can think of that you might be dispelling is from Fieroblast - which is the spell that needs to be interupted on the druids. It's ok if the cast slips through occasionally but you shouldn't be looking at 30 per fight - maybe 12 in total, if you're letting casts slip every once in a while. The solution is not to put more effort into dispelling, but to work out how to deal with the adds causing the (overflow of) debuffs in the first place.
About those interrupts: The biggest danger of the spell is not the damage it deals to the target, but the buff the caster gets from it -> spell casting speed increased. If the mob is allowed to cast too many Fieroblasts, its damage will become too much to handle. But with two DPS on each add, this will pretty much never happen, as it will die before then. It's only sure to happen in the case of only 1 DPS being on them:
Scenario 1 - Only 1 DPS on druids
Druid spawns
1 DPS goes to kill it
Since there's only 1 DPS killing the first druid, the second druid will spawn while the first is still alive and start casting Fieroblast and gain spell haste.
By the time the first druid is dead, the second druid will A) have ramped up a pretty high casting speed increase and B) use his casts on healers, since no one has aggro on him.
At some point when your 1 DPS is killing the second druid, which is already pretty strong, a third will spawn, spiralling the whole thing out of control.
Scenario 2 - 2 DPS on the druids
Druid spawns
2 DPS go to kill it, it dies.
The DPS have time to help out on their side's bird
Second druid spawns, 2 DPS go to kill it, it dies, back on the bird. Etc.
In this scenario you may still get Fieroblasts hit people, but they will A) always hit one of the DPSers that's killing the druid and B) be far less in number since the adds die in time, and thus very manageable. Ideal situation with one interrupter among the two is that you only get 1 Fieroblast cast before the druid is dead - 3 casts total of which the 1st and the 3rd will be interupted.
If both of the DPSers have an interrupt, you're golden as no casts will go off then - just make sure you alternate the interrupts.
So obviously, scenario 2 is what you're going for. 2 DPS per add, help on the birds inbetween.
Quote from: Switchback;3323461 side we got the inturupts great for the feiroblast...that was pals and DA the other side nims was great but hermi u got 1 in over 5 tries....its needs to improve...i know u have a long cd,but...
You don't need more than one interrupt per side. We run one melee interrupt on each side (same as you) and no other interrupts. The add goes down so fast that no more is needed. The odd cast getting through is really not an issue on this fight due to the speed with which the add dies.
As Az says, we have a tank handle the bird; one melee + one ranged dps handle the druid plus a healer per side. That leaves one AOE healer and one air person. When the druid is down there's nothing else to do then we add some dps to the bird. I also add dps to the boss as it flies around (it's in range of my casts 60% of the time), so I often re-dot it as it passes as our birds seem to go down pretty well and more or less on time even without me dpsing them.
In order for this to work, only tanks, the air person (3) and healers take feathers on the first batch. DPS wait until the second batch each phase to take a feather. This way the tank has enough to dps the bird down solo.
Quote from: Switchback;332346...but then it depends where the nasty dr00ds spawn....that is something i need to work on and bit more practise and it will be fine...
The druids always spawn in those 2 marked spots per side, and alternate, always in the same order, so you can know where they spawn.
HTH
Tanks can also help on druids P1 start and if they have a litten downtime playing drag-a-bird they can drag their hatching near a druid to get in some big cleaves to help also.
Quote from: Twisted;332357Tanks can also help on druids P1 start and if they have a litten downtime playing drag-a-bird they can drag their hatching near a druid to get in some big cleaves to help also.
Pre-bird the tank can help on getting the druid down if he wants, though it really doesn't add much as he'll be waiting on the egg anyway. Arguably it gives the ranged dps on each side some time to hit the boss in the air.
With a bird on his tail I would advise against the tank moving the bird near the druid. The bird has a pretty nasty cleave - which he only uses with 2+ targets in front of him - so if you have a melee DPSer in there he might take unneccessary damage. So yes, you'll get big cleaves, but they won't be helping you much :narnar:
Also it is superfluous as the druid dies fast enough with just 2 dps :-)
Here's our kill video for your reference - and of course pleasure. I cut out 1 entire circulation of the phases as it's just a repeat of the first. I am fighting on the left of the room, as viewed from the entrance.
[video=youtube;NdYyxeu12Ro]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdYyxeu12Ro[/video]
At the moment we have only seen the whirlwind fase once. What I notice is that alot of our trys the other side(blue side for us) dies before the green side(where I was last times).
Is there any reason why you guys are dying, I cant see it myself, I could probably look it up in the Logs but I wanna hear it from you guys. Why does the blue side dies so "quick".
DPS dying can really only be caused by Brushfire. These are the slow moving fires rolling over the floor, cast by the druids inbetween Fieroblasts. Remember that they can't be interrupted and should be dodged. DPS, especially melee DPS, needs to watch carefully where the druid is going to cast it, and not be in front of it when it does. Brushfires will also come in from across the room. You can obviously see these coming from a mile away so dodge accordingly.
Tip: As DPS, make sure you stay on the outside of the room, between the druid and the wall so to say. Brushfire isn't aggro based, but if the druid on your side happens to target you with it, the Brushfire will roll to you and then into the wall. See 0:35 in the vid below. This reduces Brushfires in the middle of the room, which helps tanks and healers there. Staying on the outside of the room also allows you to avoid the Worm fire entirely. Especially DPS shouldn't ever be hit by this at all.
As for healers and tanks, see the diagram below. Tanks obviously have to juggle with Worm fire a bit when steering their bird into a worm, but just like DPS, healers can only realistically die to Brushfire, as their position allows them to evade the worm fires alltogether.
Quote from: Azunai;332518See 0:35 in the vid below.
:blink: looks for video below :blink:
hehe i think he means the vid he posted on page 3 ;)
Quote from: TeaLeaf;332520:blink: looks for video below :blink:
My forum settings are weird - it's inverted, i.e. newest post on top. For some reason xD Always forget to switch it back, and kinda got used to it. But I forget others have it set the 'right' way. So yes, it's ehh.. above/previous page I guess :p Just our kill vid!
damnit Garrit, what part of: I want you guys to come with it. Didnt you get? Thanks though but stilL!!!
Quote from: Arcticfire;332514At the moment we have only seen the whirlwind fase once. What I notice is that alot of our trys the other side(blue side for us) dies before the green side(where I was last times).
Is there any reason why you guys are dying, I cant see it myself, I could probably look it up in the Logs but I wanna hear it from you guys. Why does the blue side dies so "quick".
sorry can´t remember what color of my side was last time.. but i do know it was the left side from entrance..
but I would like to say thank ya Garrit/Torgen instead.. every little tips helps :)
Quote from: pälsboll;332593every little tip helps :)
Here the fight for you as kitty in easy mode ;)
You are signed up with another (hoping a ranged) dps to a side (left or right, both are the same)
For you as Kitty it means you are the interrupter, the other dps stays full time dps to get the add down faster instead of loosing a few dps seconds for the interrupt. (those seconds are for you and me getting enough energy back)
You interrupt the first and the last (3rd cast) The second cast you will just take that hit, you take little damage and the debuff you get will/should be disspelled by a healer. (after the 3rd cast the add should be dead)
The little adds spawn in 3 places a side always in the same order and always the same place. So after a few tries you will know when and where you have to be.
After your little druid friend is dead you dps the big bird from the tank that is on your side. This is mainly for the ranged on your side as you have to remember the spawn time for the next little druid to kill and how far you have to walk to get there. If enough time then get a few hits on the bird and start killing the little add. When all those little adds are down on your side you just nuke down the big one.
Just before the whirlwind phase starts and all adds are down move to the right side of the field (at least if that is the side where you guys group up) you have to avoid the whirlwinds (you can stand in the animation behind a whirlwind).
If 1 passes you turn and run with it and do that again and again (you move in circle's).
Boss drops down and you start up 1 rotation and then hit your beserk and nuke the crap out of him.
All of that repeats itself untill you kill the boss.
Try to use your innervate on a healer in the little add phase. and don't forget to get 2 feathers for the speed buff (you don't really need it as a feral druid but it makes your life in the whirlwind phase alot easier aswell)
Hopes this helped you a bit.
If you want i can record the fight for you from a kitty point of view. But the vid from Torgen shows you the melee side already ;)
OK u wana know why we died....no inturupts....and the kitty (sorry pals ) was running all over the place as was hermi a few tries....we ended up with 2 dr00ds up no inturupts,lots of debuffs...dead...
I was crap again running every where just hotting people but evey1 just seemed to far apart.....
The answer though drea is no enough inturupts and dps on the adds on that side.
Orientation can be a b*tch in this fight, I'll hand you that, especially once you start making it through the WW phases. The first few times I did it I had no idea which side was up or left. The silly thing is you tend to consider the middle to be the line between the entrance to the little arena that you fight in and the volcano the boss spawns from. It's actually slightly tilted.
Something else I noticed when we were doing the fight last night is that there seems to actually be 6 places where the Druid adds can spawn, as opposed to 4 - which is what I originally thought. I didn't notice this on the left side, where I usually am, but on the right it became clear to me when one of the adds actually spawned in front of the firewall that blocks the exit after you start the fight - which I thought was the middle of the area on the south side. It's actually not.
You can see all of it on the screenshot below, courtesy of some other folks on the web - directly on the bottom of the screenshot is the entrance to the arena:
(http://www.ready4raiding.com/wow/images/maps/map_fl_alysrazor11.jpg)
k, our trouble:
-staying alive, some people have ALOT of trouble dodging the fire(s), from either the druid or the worms. I myself find it understandable(is that a word?) that you can die from this, 1-2 hits....not prefered but ok can life with it.
-DPS problems are "sorted" unfortunatly not by us, but by Blizzard.
-Flying, im sorry but I dont see the problem here, I tried it once and it seemed really easy.
-recharge phase: every group should take care of there druid by interrupts and stuns(solarbeam?) to make sure alyszor stays down as much as possible, dont dps them tho, thats for ALyszor.
-tanky phase, obviously dont stand infront of the boss, atleast thats what worked best last try.
then we start over.
It isnt a hard fight guys, just being aware of the situation, and I can ask that from you guys, since I know most are raiding for a while now.
anyway we got her to 74% after 1 complete rotation.
Quote from: Arcticfire;333299-Flying, im sorry but I dont see the problem here, I tried it once and it seemed really easy.
Flying is easy - you just need to get used to the stop-start movement rhythm:
-fly through a ring then stop
-new ring spawns so fly through it and stop
-rinse & repeat
(you do not continuously move)
That's the movement side of things, but the rest of it then comes down to being able to do a full DPS rotation at the same time. It may sound stupid, but one of the things that will stop this is which hand you use to move and which hand you use to dps. For me personally I have my left hand doing the moving via AWSD and my right hand doing my full spell rotation via my mouse buttons. If I used AWSD for movement and also had my main abilities bound to 1,2,3,4,5 then I'd be totally buggered as my left hand would not be able to both move and hit the dps buttons. So that's a question to ask whomever is doing the flying and it might be a cause of the problems.
Re the tanky phase, tanks stand on the other side of the boss so the main group should never be in the cleave zone.
Quote from: Switchback;332614OK u wana know why we died....no inturupts....and the kitty (sorry pals ) was running all over the place as was hermi a few tries....we ended up with 2 dr00ds up no inturupts,lots of debuffs...dead...
Interrupts:Melee interrupt always fails. Every fight you have this failing. We have it. Everyone has this.
But, this being said.. there is no excuse for missing interrupts. The druids spawns and casts are predictable, so they HAVE TO be dealt with properly.
Raid healer dispell:But... They still miss..
This is why we have healers... All healing classes can and SHOULD dispell as soon as possible. RGT raid healer (Me or puja usually) has this as high prioirty.
Sub 20 dispells per fight is ok. Sub 10 is optimal.
The raid healer should be the first to pick up the second feather at batch number two, so he gets supermobile and can DISPELL the DoT that is being applied to the Druids target.
It looks like .. only Dreaman dispelling on all your tries last wed, even though he is MainTank healer? How does he reach the players that needs to be dispelled on other side of the room?
Edit: Switch also done alot of dispelling on 12th of Sept. Healers need to sort this, so everyone know who is doing what.
Quote from: Slush;333304Interrupts:
Melee interrupt always fails. Every fight you have this failing. We have it. Everyone has this.
But, this being said.. there is no excuse for missing interrupts. The druids spawns and casts are predictable, so they HAVE TO be dealt with properly.
Pretty sure he's talking about the druids when the big bird is grounded.
Now, the druid might be casting right away as soon as he lands, but as I DeathGrip him in to me (so I'm inside healing range without moving) that interrupts as well.
As a tank, I can handle interrupts on my druid by myself - mind freeze 1st (pool 20 runic), strangulate 2nd (save a blood rune), mind freeze is up for 3rd (pool 20 runic). At this point it's pew pew on the bird time, so turn, taunt and BOSH!
I also assist on the druid that lands in the 1st phase and ensure It try and interrupt the 1st cast which means I can go get my egg knowing the dps team have full interrupts up. But these days we're so awesome the druid dies and I can take a leisurely stroll to my egg taking in the surroundings in peace ;)
Quote from: Twisted;333308Pretty sure he's talking about the druids when the big bird is grounded.
Hmmm. ok.
The little druids at least pre-nerf is 1 interrupt and 1 cast letting go and interrupt the other one.
But reading drea his comment in another thread it sounded they just had 1 dps on the little druids (adds) and the other one on the big bird. If so then i can see why it went bad. You need 2 dps on the little adds 1 interrupting and 1 full dps. This means the add dies quicker and less damage fireballs to avoid for the whole group. Tanks should be able to kill their big add on by themselves. With ofcourse the help from the dps when the little adds are down.
I don't know how you guys tried it but i had this feeling after reading that comment. So if i am wrong soz in advance ;)
no no, that post wast with the nerf.
Quote from: Ice Hawk;333311The little druids at least pre-nerf is 1 interrupt and 1 cast letting go and interrupt the other one.
With 2 dps on it, why are any getting through? From my perspective less fire on the ground is better than killing the add slightly faster.
Quote from: Twisted;333314With 2 dps on it, why are any getting through?
Because not every dps has an interrupt. A shadow priest for example. However 2 dps with 1st & 3rd (alternate) casts interrupted usually means the add only gets a single cast off before dying.
with the nerf there is only 1 cast if you have 1 melee on them.
Quote from: TeaLeaf;333315Because not every dps has an interrupt. A shadow priest for example.
You're right, as the boss mechanics in this tier (unlike the previous one) are not dependent on interrupts.
If we were still running BWD where boss mechanics are based around a constant stream of interrupts, I would argue that speccing Silence would be worth it over the potential DPS drop. If memory serves, when we were tackling the council for the first time there was a big debate in the ranged camp about who could interrupt Feludius for the lance when I had to be 6 yards away to avoid his big aoe as my interrupt requires melee range. From personal experience, I sacrificed some survival talents so I could get an interrupt without runic power required as a missed interrupt from me due to a lack of resources is a raid wipe and not good.
But we aren't running BWD anymore and this is the only fight that actually requires interrupts so I can understand why you don't so. I have also specced out of Endless Winter.
Pro tip - Engineers have High Powered Bolt Gun (http://www.wowhead.com/item=60223/high-powered-bolt-gun) which can interrupt :)
Quote from: TeaLeaf;333302Re the tanky phase, tanks stand on the other side of the boss so the main group should never be in the cleave zone.
The tanks should also not be in each others cleave zone, so 45 degrees apart (roughly) or run in for taunt and other tank run out.
Quote from: Twisted;333314With 2 dps on it, why are any getting through? From my perspective less fire on the ground is better than killing the add slightly faster.
Oi, the thing that's being interrupted is not the thing that's causing the fire on the ground :P
If your people are dying, there is *no way* it's because of those interrupts not going through, if you have 2 dps on the adds. Especially post-nerf. I wanna bet me some good money that it's because people are not avoiding Brushfire. I've seen RGT'ers do it too. You *HAVE TO* watch the add - look in which direction he's casting it, and
not be there when it goes off, or you're hugging up 2 ticks of Brushfire = a *lot* of damage.
You also have to be particularly directionally challenged to get hit by the fire from the Worms while dpsing adds. Ranged has no business being on the inside of the room and will be nowhere near them. Melee just stands behind the add - as in, the add is between the worm and you - and will never get hit that way. The only point where you could get hit by it is when you're going for feathers. You just have to be careful with that.
I tried flying last night and found it a bit weird the mixed keys RL mentioned was my main prob too and realising I spammed is instead of wrath
wouldnt the best thing to do when flying be to steer with ure mouse both buttons and using keyboard for spells and abilites? as u can turn ure camera angle with letting go of the left button, find the circle, then press right button in again?
/sharp
Edit: keybinds could prolly help u if ure lacking buttons on bar 1
When I did it I used my keyboard, awsd, and had no issues
I think it comes down to whatever you prefer and are used to ;-) You'll want to maximize dps, but staying in the air is more important than an optimal rotation I would say. Especially now with the nerf, it won't make or break the fight if you miss a spell or two up there.
We're veering slightly OT here, but when I did it I used both. I would mouse turn to line up the direction & angle I was flying at with the circle, but I used 'w' to fly through it - that's because I was using the mouse buttons to do my spell rotation and therefore using both mouse buttons to move forward would have stopped me casting spells. So I think how you do it depends on which hand you have doing which role to start with.
The thing to avoid is having both jobs on the same hand, i.e. AWSD for movement and all your key spells on 1,2,3,4,5 etc, because that overloads the one hand and causes problems.
The general comment that I think we were dancing around but not referring to is that keyboard turning is generally bad for raiders and should be avoided. This remains true, but it does not mean that AWSD cannot be used, it's just not to be used when you need to 'turn & burn' quickly.
Well RGT did this boss now aswell on normal mode.
With a weird setup, Whitey as healer and Grimnar as tank.
What we noticed very quickly was that the little adds didn't even casted the spell we used to interrupt. We had them down before they even started casting that spell. At least on the right side.
I don't know because of that, that we had more or the same number of fireballs running past us in the area but they are most of the time easy to avoid.
Also the big birds are going down very quickly.. i was at the start afraid that i did not had the dps for it as i needed to look at the rest as for myself that fight looks the hardest for a dps to step in as tank.
But it went down quicker then the other one:narnar:
Also we had loads and loads of spare time waiting for the boss to start the whirlwind phase what was abit insane... That phase itself was a laugh aswell you are now able with just 1 feather to just follow one whirlwind. You don't even need to run in circle's.
In short that boss is a cakewalk. It is now almost the same as Ryo when they fixed and nerfed him the first time...
Quote from: Ice Hawk;333534Also the big birds are going down very quickly.. i was at the start afraid that i did not had the dps for it as i needed to look at the rest as for myself that fight looks the hardest for a dps to step in as tank.
Both you and Twisted were up over 60k dps, so you did good.
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-o2cxjjtc061mpjbw/sum/damageDone/?s=1546&e=2102
Something I noticed in conversation with Drea yesterday was that RGW and RGT assign roles in different ways.
RGT does two groups, left & right, 4 people in each (tank, healer & 2 dps); 1 flyer, 1 raid healer
Flyer is solely responsible for bringing Bird HP down during flight phase
For each group:
Tank kills bird.
1 healer on that tank
2 dps on the druid add (dps & interrupt) - then when druid dead dps the Bird
From what was said RGW does:
1 dps on the druid then
Tank + 1 dps on bird, with surplus dps going to Boss.
With the RGW setup you will probably see more interrupts, more casts and a longer period during which the mob is alive and casting (and therefore a higher healing requirement due to the number of casts it gets off before death).
It might be easier for RGW to revert to the RGT setup.
RGW tank dps is clearly high enough to kill a bird unassisted and so do not need an additional dps assigned to the Bird as they can handle it comfortably solo.
From the logs, it appears that the Flyer needs some work to be getting used to casting continuously whilst also stacking the buffs required. DPS on the flyer should certainly be over 20k and usually over 40k. If you are using a lock for this, try affliction if you struggle with destro whilst airborne. If you are still struggling then it's worth a check to see which keys you use to cast and which you use to move as that will the only other place the problem could be.
This leaves 2 dps on the druid which makes the spell cast/interrupt a non-entity, particularly with the nerf - and this eases the healing requirement.
Any other balance of roles puts pressure on people where there should be none. Asking ranged dps to dps the Boss whilst the Boss is airborne is tricky as at least 50% of the time the boss is out of range, so it is easier to focus the dps on druids first, then the Bird as these targets will always be in range. This leave the Flyer to do his thing - and it's really quite an easy thing to handle. You just cast and move at the same time. Simples.
Once again we took to long for this fight because people die during the air phase and because the flying dps isnt near the 30-40K dps. Now I would like to hear from Hermi, Sithy and Vanguish what kinda trouble they have and if you 3 have questions then please ask.
Well I thought it went ok last night ranged issues in flying or on ground ?
The ground went oke, had 2 ppl dieing or nearly dieing because they stood in her path, but the fight still takes to long because of the lack of dps by the flyer. also we hit the "enerage" tonight so that isnt that good!