Dead Men Walking

http://ptr.wowhead.com/npc=52409

In phase one, Ragnaros has two primary abilities. The first one is Sulfuras Smash. He targets the ground with his hammer and lava begins to boil on the ground; a few seconds later, he slams the hammer down. This impact causes Lava Wave to radiate out from the blast. They're easy to avoid, but when we did get hit, they were pretty minimal damage. They put a debuff that can be dispelled that causes periodic damage. It's likely in heroic it would hit for too much or be unremovable as a way to make the mechanic more punishing.

The second ability he uses are Magma Traps. He summons one on a random player in the raid. They function a lot like the Shadow Trap mechanic from heroic Lich King, except they don't remove you from the platform. This makes them relatively harmless. Unlike the heroic Lich King ones, they also don't despawn during phase transitions. We ended up clearing them with our priests--they would purposely set them off, take the initial damage, then use Levitate to avoid taking fall damage right before they came back down.

Other than these two abilities, it was fairly simple. Hand of Ragnaros is casted every once in a while and it's a lot like Static Shock from the Al'Akir encounter. Casters just shouldn't stand in melee to avoid it. Ragnaros also casts Wrath of Ragnaros on a random player so players should be careful to not be in front of Magma Traps so they aren't punted back into one. One thing that isn't covered in the video are the tanks. We used two because there was a debuff and we found it easier if the tanks taunted off each other to reset it; we found out later you could one tank it if you wanted to, but this probably isn't working as intended.
Phase Two

Phase two starts at 70%. Ragnaros spawns his Sons of Flame after throwing down Sulfuras. They speed towards the hammer and if they get close to it, they explode. They can't be slowed, but they can be stunned. We had ranged burst them down and melee get ones that were coming closer. They have a buff called Burning Speed which increases their speed if their HP is above 50%, so our melee just switched to ones that were high then switched off after and allowed ranged to finish them off.

After you clean up the Sons, Ragnaros comes back up and throws down a Molten Seed at every member of the raid. When they come down, we switched sides to the other end of the platform. After ten seconds, they spawn adds that can't be tanked. Luckily they don't hit for very much, either. We just gathered up and AoE'd them down then switched back to Ragnaros.

Other than that, it was a fairly simple phase. He also casts Engulfing Flames on the platform to make certain areas obscured, this doesn't become much of an issue until phase three, but should still be watched out for.
Phase Three

The final phase starts out at 40% with another intermission similar to the last except for the addition of two Lava Scions. These two mobs can be tanked and are fairly harmless except for the fact that they heal Sons of Flame who stand in their wake. We just made sure they were tanked off to the side to avoid this.

Phase three's whole mechanic relies on Living Meteors. Ragnaros will summon on down from the sky and it will fixate on a random raid member. You can alter its path slightly by DPSing it--every time it's hit, it rolls away. However, if you're in the meteor's landing path or within a couple yards of it (regardless of whether it's following you or not), it will kill you. Thus only ranged DPS can alter its path. These meteors can't be killed and more of them continue to spawn, effectively making this last phase an intense burn one. The raid must run back and forth to avoid the meteors while finishing the Lava Scions that were left up from the intermission and also damaging Ragnaros.

Of course, Engulfing Flames is still being cast on one third of the platform, making the meteor kiting even trickier.

After this phase, Ragnaros dies--since we only got about two hours of testing in and it was our first time killing him, we didn't kill him. We got pretty close, though, so it was a fairly easy fight to learn and adjust to. The mechanics were a mixture of old and new with some cool ideas thrown in. Phase three was by far the most hectic and satisfying of the phases. It'd be cooler if more phases were like that as kiting the meteors took more execution and felt much more complex than the previous phases' special abilities.

Short fight tactics, will be updated once live versions appear...

TL;DR version: DONT STAND IN THE FIRE

3 phases and a transition phase in between. 4th phase in heroic only, only ability information so far.

Phase 1

-Dont get hit by hammer or its lava waves.
-Trigger lava traps when you can afford it.
-Dont clump up.
-Dont get knockbacked in to lava.

Transition 1

-Kill adds before they reach hammer. Closest ones first. Use knockbacks & stuns.

Phase 2

Sulfuras Smash remains from Phase 1, lava traps and knockback are gone.
-Split raid on both sides of room, empty in middle.
-Dont stand in World in Flames fire. Derp.
-When Ragranos uses Molten seeds, move to the center, pop survivability cooldowns and aoe until the adds that spawn are dead. This is currently buggy and should change a lot on live, so dont take it for granted.

Transition 2

-Kill adds before they reach the hammer, just like in transition 1.
-2 big adds spawn in addition to smaller adds. Burn these while moving them around, dont let them heal themselves by standing in their path.
Small adds > Big adds.

Phase 3

Sulfuras Smash and World in Flames will remain from previous phases.
-Living Meteors will spawn continually, which follow players around and kill them (and anyone nearby) if they reach them. Attack the meteors to knock them back.
-If the meteors hit lava waves, something happens. They werent exactly functional on the PTR.

Start reading & prepping up for this fight please.  RGT have done 4/7, this is 2 fights away so let's be prepared!

Now is prep time for Ragnaros.  RGT are 5/7 and Ragnaros is now in sight.  Be ready for it please so that we can get on to Heroic modes ASAP.

Well i have no clue on what to post really...

First phase is simple for me, just nuke the boss and hoping i don't get knocked back into the firewave.. (happend once at first try)
Without the knockback the waves are freaking easy to avoid as melee dps. Just stand at the boss and you are behind it ;)

phase 2 well that is one i am still wondering about, my job was the closest add at the left side, i seemed to able to just kill it in time but then just in time!!
1 try we had a clear phase 2 with 3 adds getting very close to the hammer but enough dps from all of us on it (aoe dps) to kill them just in time. The try after that was a complete mess...

With that in my mind i still have no clue on how to solve that phase as for me i had already trouble with my own add and i really had not to start thinking about being able to help out the others fast enough.
My stunn works on them but it costs me 5 combo points to be effective on them, that means 2 full energy bars gone just for the stunn at that point i still have to burn him down..  when the add dies i am completly out of energy and aint able to do aoe damage, aoe damage is at that point needed near the hammer as the other adds seemed to be grouped at that point.

For the rest i don't know havn't seen the rest of the fight yet as this was my first go into this fight.

I think the way to handle the first transition phase is to do what we were doing in as much as having an assigned player to each add but if you are on an add that is a long way from the hammer then just dps down to 40-50% and then help attack one that's closer to the hammer.  The first proper try we had went well and with everyone alive I'm sure we will handle them fine.

I need to work on my timing of the traps as I nearly killed Whytee a couple of times in the first phase. Otherwise It was pretty simple from my end, I didn't have any trouble avoiding the Sulfuras smash waves. I still hate his absolutely ridiculous hit-box which causes haunt to take about 4secs to reach him.

Quote from: Jesung;331481I still hate his absolutely ridiculous hit-box which causes haunt to take about 4secs to reach him.

Maybe cast it when it's off CD instead of delaying it. Not maintaining near 100% haunt uptime is a big DPS loss for affliction.

Ok, notes from me

1) I think we're making P2 harder than it needs to be (with the running around and boxed positions). I know this is suggesting a pretty big change from what we're doing now, but I wanna throw up the ball regardless. In the Tankspot vid, the way they handle P2 is pretty much the same as P1, with regards to positions. There's two differences: 1 - they stand 6 yards apart, obviously, and 2 - they keep a strip of ground in the middle (from the boss to the entrance of the area) completely clear. Once seeds have spawned, everyone runs to the middle front of Ragnaros (there's a dot in the floor there, makes it easy), stacks up and kills adds, then goes back to their positions. The bit tricky (esp on 25) is that you may get seeds in eachother's paths, but with 10man it should be very easy to move around it. This makes it far less of a hassle to run around and get proper positions. See the video below at 05:05. As for the Engulfing Flame, people would just handle those individually. Charred fire under your feet? Move the F out! :-)

[video=youtube;Cc0kfS8-KB0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cc0kfS8-KB0&feature=channel_video_title[/video]


2) Hammer in the Middle. Simpler solution to when this happens (imo) would be to have the 4 dps (as we had it tonight: TL+Nocto and Torgen+Grim) on the middle 4 adds, rather than have me and Grim on the outer ones. If I'm not mistaken it was Jesung on two of the middle adds? Me and Grim can dish out a lot more burst dps. But I reckon this was already obvious at the end of last try tonight ;-)

Well atm i will leave out the tactics for other people to type down. as for it was abit confusing etc. I knew my job and did it ;)

But feral dps point of view:

Phase 1, Easy for melee dps. Just a few things to look for and to do.

First you start with nuking the boss, the way we did it the last few tries you will be just or nearly done putting up your first dps rotation when heroism gets launched, so be ready for that. When first rotation is going hit your trinkets/pots and beserk and go full shred mode. (you need to be on the far left to be behind the boss)(you won't be able to use shred from there all the time as the tanks move around a bit aswell and are spread, if lucky you can use it the whole time if not swap to mangle.
Then the things to look out for: "Hammer Time"  that is his hammer smash on the ground make sure you are at the edge of the platform, that way you don't have to worry about the 3 lava waves. But your biggest concern here is the knockback timer.
There is 1 moment in phase 1 that the hammer and knockback timer are going off at the same time. So time your position correct so that you get launched behind the passing wave and not infront of it. (when you have seen the fight you will know what i mean).
Another thing that can also be a pain to do is giving your innervate to an healer. As most of the time they where out of range of me, or the healer that needed is was at the far end of the platform. If the last thing is going on then it is just bad luck for that healer, just stick your innervate to the closest healer near you. (the healer near you lets you being out of range so you can do your normal dps rotation and not being a full dps loss)(thnx Puja for letting me staying at the spot i was)

Phase 1.5

Adds to kill. 2 out of the 3 options are easy for a feral druid the 3 one (and still unclear) is still a ?????.

1. Hammer drops on the left:  feral dps take the add left of the hammer that is at the back, the other melee dps with way more burst dps takes the add closest to the hammer. (only 2 adds at the left side of the hammer) after your add is down you nuke the other incomming adds at the hammer. (all adds may not reach the hammer)

2. Hammer drops on the right: You stay at where you where at the platform but this time there are 6 adds your side. The 2 at the back are left alone at the start. You just nuke nr 3 from that point with the heavy melee dps next to you. When your add is at 50% you swap to the other adds to slow/kill them.

3. Hammer drops in the middle: Now 4 adds either side of the hammer. Here is where we failed today for a bit. We used to have the 2 last adds on our side and then helping with the rest. (feral druid at he last one) But next time we will change that order i think as the burst dps is needed at the 2 adds closest to the hammer either side of it. (so more info on that later)

When all adds are down phase 2 starts..

a tip for phase 1.5:  make sure that when ragnaros hits 76% you save your tigersfury for the add phase. When boss reaches 72/71% stop hitting with special attacks. This makes sure you have a full energy bar (2) for nuking the adds as you are a dps loss on the adds as a feral with just a little burst dps at the start and end of that phase. This way you maked sure your side did/can do his job without trouble.

phase 2:

Stacking up (6 yards between al of us) at the left side of the boss. still watch out for the big hammer and its waves of lava. As soon as you get the fire bubble around you move to the right side of the platform and really stackup. (in the meanwhile keep attacking the boss) When fully stacked up you will see a horde of adds comming your way save a full energy bar for them and swipe the crap out of them (boss still as your target) maybe even save tigersfury for this.
Point to watch out here is the big fire on the ground move out of it as a group asap!
This repeats all the time untill next phase...

That is all i have to say as a feral as i think that was what i have seen.. might have missed something but the others will have said that ;)

From my POV, whilst it was my first night in there we seemed anecdotally to get P1 way more reliable and P1.5 under almost 'good' control.  We started failing with the first Engulfing Flame in P2 when we got there.  However, we still wasted far too many tries with first deaths early in the fight from avoidable things:

Try Number:

• Amber in Lava Wave
• Grim in Lava wave (was this when you found out about the knockback coinciding with the wave?)
• AOE raid wipe (Sons reached Hammer)
• Nocto died due to Wrath & Trap within 5 seconds (Jes & Healers be aware)
• AOE raid wipe (Sons reached Hammer)
• Jesung triggered trap and ported right into a Lava Wave (all within less than a second)
• AOE wipe - double traps triggered within 1 second (don't stand too close to an un-triggered trap or you might get knocked into it)
• AOE raid wipe to Engulfing Flames
• Jas in took melee range knockback into trap
• Amber in Lava Wave
• AOE raid wipe (Sons reached Hammer)
• Slush got humped by Molten Infernos (movement & placing of seeds was wrong)
• Puja in Lava Wave
• Amber in Lava Wave
• AOE raid wipe (Sons reached Hammer)
• Slush in Lava Wave
• Puja had Wrath knockback into trap and died from fall damage
• AOE raid wipe (Sons reached Hammer)

The purpose of the list is not to point out who did what, but to summarise where we can get better.  Of the 18 tries last night (not a bad number for this boss for a raid), we:

5 tries to Sons reaching Hammer - this is largely now fixed (still some work to do on Middle Hammer)
3 tries lost to people getting knockback into a trap (this is avoidable)
7 tries lost to people getting hit by Lava Waves (this is avoidable)
1 lost to poor Seed positioning (this is avoidable)

So more than half our night (11 of 18 tries) was lost due to avoidable damage or our own errors.  5 tries to something we have largely now fixed and then we lost 2 tries to other things.  

If we fix us first, we'll have more time to figure out which bits of this fight are tricky and then get on and kill the bugger!



Ground Rules:
The five phase fight is really a 3 phase fight, with P1, a P1.5 transition, P2, a P2.5 transition and P3.  So treat reference to the phases accordingly and let's be consistent!

Sons of Flame numbering convention:
For a left or right hammer:  1 & 2 are far side of the Hammer.  3-8 are boss-side of the Hammer & cover the area from the Hammer, past middle to the opposite side of the platform.
Middle Hammer: 1-8 are from Left to Right as you look at the boss from the entrance to the platform.

Heroism
Heroism blown 10 seconds into the fight.   We'll get to use it again towards the end of the fight.  However it does mean someone else (last night this was me) needs to trigger last trap before P1.5.  Leap of Faith was a good safety net and also shortened the air-time for me so ensured I was on the ground and able to cast when the Sons spawned.  I suspect that very quickly we will defer heroism as we bring the fight down to the 10 minute mark with gear upgrades and familiairity, so this is most likely a short-term thing.

Quote from: Azunai;331616I know this is suggesting a pretty big change from what we're doing now, but I wanna throw up the ball regardless.

I'd rather you ran it up a flagpole and see if anyone salutes it. :P

Quote from: Azunai;331616, with regards to positions. There's two differences: 1 - they stand 6 yards apart, obviously, and 2 - they keep a strip of ground in the middle (from the boss to the entrance of the area) completely clear. Once seeds have spawned, everyone runs to the middle front of Ragnaros (there's a dot in the floor there, makes it easy), stacks up and kills adds, then goes back to their positions. The bit tricky (esp on 25) is that you may get seeds in eachother's paths, but with 10man it should be very easy to move around it.

If we try this it is not too far from what we do at the moment.  I do not like the amount we have to run from blue to green during P1.5 post seed spawn.  Anything to reduce that is good and it will increase our dps.   Arguably we could group in a horseshoe around a central collapse point (keeping the mid clear) and do a similar thing (horseshoe is less running for those at the far end of for example a line).  It should mean less distance to run, thus getting onto DPSing the little adds more quickly and that also means we can then spread again earlier - which in turn means we are better positioned for Engulfing Flames (still having adds up for the first engulfing flames killed us at least 3 times last night).  Once we're spread again (post-seed adds) and into P2 with the Engulfing Flame then being better spread will help reduce damage, but I think this would have happened anyway if we had handled adds faster.

Quote from: Azunai;3316162) Hammer in the Middle.

This is what we dealt with very poorly last night and need to be on top of in order to get a reliable, repeatable strategy in place.  Agreed that we need burst dps in middle, so TL+Nocto on 4 & 5, Torgen & Grim on 3 & 6.  However with a middle Hammer *everything* is close and Jes will always struggle somewhat due to cast time and their movement speed so we might need to do something like:
(assume middle hammer):
1 & 2: Jes plus Torgen (leap) & Grim (pounce)
3 & 4: Torgen & Grim stun only then go dps on 1 & 2 with Jes
5 & 6: TL & Nocto to 50%, then Nocto finish 5 & 6, TL dps 4 then 3 to 50%
7 & 8: Whytee & Twisted then clean up anything on right side
All: clean up once your add is down
 
Hammer Time
People are either (a) not moving enough and getting caught, or moving too much and losing dps or healing time.  It's easy, look at a few, figure out the width of the lava walls and learn to avoid *and* move by minimal amounts (most often not having to move at all!)

Seed Placement
Basically we sucked on a couple of tries.  Standing in mid or close to mid is not an option and will wipe us.

Quote from: Ice Hawk;331617There is 1 moment in phase 1 that the hammer and knockback timer are going off at the same time. So time your position correct so that you get launched behind the passing wave and not infront of it. (when you have seen the fight you will know what i mean).

An excellent point for people in melee range to note.

yeah point number 2 was the time that both went off at the same time and i was to far away from the hammer smash so i got knocked back into the wave.

btw the way you stand is also the way you get knocked back to.  

easy example: If you have your back to the boss you will get launched to the boss and will have a nice swim in the lava ;)

Well not much new stuff from my end, only have to say that the add controll on my end was easy doable and this most of the time without my expensive stunn...

I used my stunn when i noticed an emergency and if i was able to ofcourse.. This means when someone else his add ran past me with loads of hp... in that case i tried to stunn mine and dps that one with the little dps i had left at that point.
What i also noticed a few tries was that my add with only 1 rotation on it was the last add alive and still far away from the hammer (right hammer) (everyone left that add alone untill the end) so you can somewhat say some dps is better spend at that point somewhere else.
That is what we already noticed when Torgen was in the group, it seems where he had dps for 3 adds i have for 1,5/2 when enough playground ofcourse.. That should help out Jes if he plays his normal spec and also saves a cd from Sheep or Nocto at the hammer.

Jesung last few tries where great, we sort had a small problem with one of his adds as that one was in the lava pool and since it was melee side i couldn't hit it... but the backup came in on time.

P2 group position (seed phase) as default should be as far forward as possible (right on the edge of the lava) We may need to move it back if we get fire but it should prevent us getting split up

Quote from: JonnyAppleSeed;331896P2 group position (seed phase) as default should be as far forward as possible (right on the edge of the lava) We may need to move it back if we get fire but it should prevent us getting split up

I think the position we used yesterday was better than right at the front. The reason being, it is just a few steps either way from middle to inside flame positions.  When we used the up front stack position it took us too long to get out and ended up dead to the flames.

Aye, I preferred being a little back from the front for the same reason.  If we're at the front and we get a front engulfing flame then people die before they 'back' out.  I think standing somewhere around the boundary between a front & mid engulfing is best.

What I was not too happy with last night was the second seed phase which coincides with an engulfing.  I'm thinking about how we handle that at the moment and will post back once I have enough caffeine in my system to kick-start my brain.

What was horrible last night was the number of tries & BRs we had to use during P1.   We should not be losing *anyone* during P1, there's no excuse at this stage when we've had something like 80 tries.   We need to take responsibility and stop delivering the fails, if we don't then a Ragnaros kill is a long way off.

Try #:
1 - AOE Nova - people - wrong add targeted
2 - Incorrect positioning of seed spawns led to people getting raped by little adds
3 - AOE Nova - people - wrong add targeted
4 - Both MT healers healed same tank, the other one died.  Then we lost someone else to Lava Wave
5 - MT died due to healer confusion, people bounced into traps dying to fall damage
6 - Lost someone to Lava Wave
7 - Lost someone to Lava Wave
8 - AOE Nova (TL DC'd)
9 - Lost MT to Trap & Melee, then lost someone to Lava Wave
10 - Someone bounced into trap and died to fall damage
11 - Lost someone to Lava Wave

Way too many avoidable deaths and uses of BR in there and this is something we *have* to tighten up on if we expect to both get Ragnaros down soon and to progress with any speed at all in Heroic modes.

As long as we know to to run in the same direction to gp for small adds ... The fact we are at the front means that if flames are landing on us we only have one choice and thats run back. Agree not too far forward

Really sorry about my connection losses tonight, will have it fixed tomorrow.

Nps Slush had a few DCs myself thanks to my ISP (also a dog!).

Last night was frustrating.  We've had over 70 pulls on Ragnaros now and we ought to be at the stage of seeing many P3 tries but we're still struggling to see P2 so that we can learn the latter stages of the fight.  Unfortunately last night we spent 2 hours forgetting everything we had learnt in the previous 50 pulls and therefore failed to get into P2 until the final hour of the raid.  It would be simpler to just raid that single hour and not turn up for the first 2 hours which were wasted.   We raid a limited number of hours each week and we really do need to maximise the effectiveness of our invested time.   We *have* to stop the personal errors, it's killing us, literally.

When we did get into P2 again we discovered new challenges but also solved them really quickly.   All we need to do now is get back into the fight to test out these solutions and learn P2.5.

What we learnt:
P1 should be on farm(!!!)

P1.5 Sons go down well on left or right hammer, we need real care on Middle hammer - and damn we need to remember which add is ours as we missed too many last night.  Don't rely on where someone else is stood, learn your own add positioning so that they can space off you!

P2 After Sons killed return to Son spawn positioning (to maintain good spread prior to Seed spawns), then collapse to middle (closer to front) alongside the boundary between a Front Engulfing and a Middle Engulfing.  
When seed adds down G1 goes left, G2 goes right (yeah I know it was the other way around but G1 left makes more logical sense in the long run) (RLs sort groups to aid this split) - use the 'corners' on the curved line to provide spacing (which gives 6+ yds) and this will mean 2 standing in the Front Engulfing zone, 1 on the boundary and 2 in the Middle Engulfing zone (ie one group each side).  
When Engulfing comes the ones stood in Engulfing slide behind the others on that side, those without shuffle a couple of yards forward to aid spacing.
When Seeds spawn we all collapse to mid again, moving forward again as Engulfing allows.
Hammer - if we get a Hammer on us when we are collapsed we simply move forward towards Ragnaros as the Lava Waves never travel towards him.  Post Hammer we select group on the Left of the scorched ground from the Hammer.
Rinse & repeat.


This should see us into P2.5, there is nothing else to surprise us in P1, P1.5 or P2.  We need to focus on doing what we can already do to give us that chance this reset.

I think we're going about Middle hammer the wrong way.  We are reliable on Left & Right hammer, but we should switch middle hammer to a collaberative approach.  If we stun say 7 & 8 (tank side), and 1 & 2 (melee side) then we get 2 dps on both 3, 4, 5 & 6 (I'm counting healers as 1 dps).  These will drop like a stone and we can then double up on the last 2 using knockbacks to provide any additional needed time.  

Even better might be to ignore stun 5, 6, 7 & 8 and this way we get all Sons coming into the same knockback or Holy Wrath.

We could evolve this start for Left & Right hammers too.  We could stun 7 & 8 (usually Jes' targets) then all dps them after.  It would allow Jes to double up on other targets initially.

Im soooo needing a picture of the positions :blink:

Quote from: JonnyAppleSeed;332104Im soooo needing a picture of the positions :blink:

Seconded!

Okay, I went to draw out where the sons would actually spawn using a screenshot of the room I found on the web. I went and watched the Tankspot 25-man Rag video for the exact positions so I could mark them up, and then I noticed something...

So far we (or at least I) have been operating on the assumption that the positions the sons spawn in is exactly the same, regardless of where the hammer is going to land, namely 4 on one side of the room, 4 on the other. This is actually not how it is! I'm suprised we (or I) didn't notice this yet!

If you look at the video http://www.youtube.com/user/ZAMOfficial#p/c/ED9E6ED039007619 at 03:52 (pause it there) you can see quite clearly that there are 5 beams on the left side of the room, and 3 on the right. The hammer is going to land on the right. At first I figured it may be a 25-man thing, so I looked up 10man kill videos. I found a few where hammer hits left, right, and one where it hits in the middle too. The sons positions differ depending on where the hammer is going to land, and this is probably why we've had mix-ups with who has which son. It's not as simple as symmetry after all!


So, picture time (ignore the light blue stuff with the arrows in the middle, it was from the original screenshot which was the best I could find):

Hammer hits Left: 3 adds on the left side of the room, 5 on the right.
Sons 1 - 2 - 3 are Close
Sons 4 - 5 - 6 - 7 - 8 are Far

(http://www.deadmen.co.uk/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=849&d=1314918925)


Hammer hits Right: 5 adds on the left side of the room, 3 on the right.
Sons 6 - 7 - 8 are Close
Sons 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 are Far

(http://www.deadmen.co.uk/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=851&d=1314918927)


Hammer hits Middle: 4 adds on the left side of the room, 4 on the right.
I'm not 100%, but I'm tempted to say all sons are at Medium Distance

(http://www.deadmen.co.uk/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=850&d=1314918926)


Something we can learn from these positions is that 1 - 2 - 7- 8 are always in the same position. It's 3 - 4 - 5 - 6 that 'lean' left or right depending on where the hammer is going to land.



EDIT: An alternative way to look at it is this. Depending on if you're good with numbers or shapes this may or may not make it more complex for you. :narnar:  

(http://www.deadmen.co.uk/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=852&d=1314921172)

Sorry to spoil the artwork, but it's i's 4 either side not 3 + 5.

Quote from: TeaLeaf;332120Sorry to spoil the artwork, but it's i's 4 either side not 3 + 5.

No, you didnt read the post. Just checked a vid aswell. Will check more.
It may appear as.. Torgen has figured out why we countiniously (spellcheck plz) has wiped on this.

We always had problems with this: Counting errors. This has to be why (3:52)

Quote from: TeaLeaf;332120Sorry to spoil the artwork, but it's i's 4 either side not 3 + 5.

I just watched a 10 man version of the fight and torgens artwork is the same positioning.
Also see this image used by another guild to set assignments. http://www.loweredexpectations.net/images/rag.png
 [ATTACH=CONFIG]853[/ATTACH]

I hadn't noticed the 5/3 but I'm usually stuck on or near the outside for left and right.

Quote from: Whitey;332125Also see this image used by another guild to set assignments. http://www.loweredexpectations.net/images/rag.png
 [ATTACH=CONFIG]853[/ATTACH]

Do we know the classes of the names so we can match their class formation?

I'm flattered you guys call it artwork :narnar:

I'm guessing Unika is Finnish for Hammer. As for their classes, I reckon we can't really 1:1 something like that but should find something that works for us.

Quote from: Slush;332123No, you didnt read the post. Just checked a vid aswell. Will check more.
It may appear as.. Torgen has figured out why we countiniously (spellcheck plz) has wiped on this.

We always had problems with this: Counting errors. This has to be why (3:52)

Bugger me, I just re-checked the Tankspot video which I have in HD on my HDD and you're right.  Bugger again.  And bugger.  How on earth did I make such a stupid error.  Sorry guys - get a RL who can count next time, I feel like an idiot.  How the hell did we not notice this before (and still reliably handle left & right hammers)?  

:frusty: :frusty: :frusty: :frusty: :frusty:

The extra one that we got on one side 5/3 was the one i was poppin a stun on... I was always wondering why we had slow dps on it I think now we know.. So its a case of each member learning a position for left right and ctr.

I feel a win on the cards :D

No worries TL, none of us noticed it. I wouldn't have either if I wasn't out to map the positions as exact as I could. ;-) And hey it hasn't been the biggest problem area as you say, we've actually done pretty ok ;-). On to smoother tides now (hopefully)!

Revised positions:

Left Hammer:
(1 is hammer side, 8 is furthest away)

• Jesung
• Torgen
• Incendia
• Teaell
• Sheep
• Jas stun
• Halbarad
• Whytee

Middle Hammer
(1 is extreme left, 8 is extreme right)

• Incendia
• Sheep
• Teaell
• Torgen
• Halbarad
• Whytee
• Jesung
• Jesung

Right Hammer
(1 is hammer side, 8 is furthest away)

• Whytee
• Halbarad
• Torgen
• Teaell
• Sheep
• Jas stun
• Incendia
• Jesung

That order seemed to work.  However, I still think where we go with a group with fewer stuns, we might need to resort to dealing with one half by putting all dps on them, then allowing the other side to run free and get knocked back, then dps cleaning them up after the first half are down.

One thing some do on 10 man is just dps down till you have maxed the slow effect then move onto other adds..Its about 80k damage to get the speed buff removed

Quote from: JonnyAppleSeed;332324One thing some do on 10 man is just dps down till you have maxed the slow effect then move onto other adds..Its about 80k damage to get the speed buff removed

That's basically what we're trying to do but with the help of stuns/knockbacks where we can.  I stun mine and get it down to 40-50% and then look to see if I can help elsewhere.  I'm sure others are doing the same (that's what we asked for early on).

Quote from: Whitey;332362That's basically what we're trying to do but with the help of stuns/knockbacks where we can.  I stun mine and get it down to 40-50% and then look to see if I can help elsewhere.  I'm sure others are doing the same (that's what we asked for early on).

Yep we are switching, it's your own add to <50% then prio on closest.

Well i find it a bit hard to explain but here is my try:

It is the second phase group up and split up part.

left group setup:

Torgen (melee dps)
Sheepat (ranged dps)
Jesung (ranged dps)
Puja (healer)
Grimnar (melee dps)

that was the group on the left.

What we did was a sort of circle of 5 people spread out 6 yards apart.
With the 2 melee on the front, Torgen on the right and Grim on the left.
Behind the two melee we had the 2 ranged one behind each melee and behind them was Puja.

Jesung is able to use his portal (did you even use it?) so he could be on the left as at that point it would mean that Sheepy was the slowest walker.
Puja has his ghostwolve form. Torgen has his jump and speed buff. Grim already has a standard 30% movement increase and 2 speedbuffs avail.

What i did when the seeds spawned was i hit the group speedbuff (when avail) so we all where quick movers compared to the other group (yes that is why we where already in the middle:narnar:)

When the flames hit us in the front where the melee is normally standing, the melee changed the others just stayed where they where (maybe 1/2 steps backwards) Torgen jumped far to the back of the group and Grim moved next to jesung to the far left as i am the quickest mover.

This worked out for us nicely and for my own feeling it took around 3 tries for us all to get used to it. and the last few tries it felt like routine at least for me and if i looked at the other 4 i think for them aswell.

That is how we did that phase if you understand me:sideways:




Killing adds in phase 1.5 was most of the time spot on with a good spread of people and their abilities. We had some close calls and i had 2 tries a just save with my own add.... 1 try i was attacking the boss to long and noticed i was pretty far away from my add and had Hals add first... But it went fine. The other try i tried something out with Sheep his add and mine, nuking his down then tigersfury (full energy bar back) and nuke my own. That became a very close call and after that try i didn't tried again doing that... for the rest i stayed with my add and it went down nicely ;)

As an aside I think it is really worth considering instant ghost wolf on resto shaman Slush.  I used it run it on my resto shaman and iirc it does not cost anything seriously valuable to obtain in a resto build?

I'll collect my thoughts about the rest and post tomorrow.

Revised Sons positions: these worked really well and we consistently got through the Sons phase into P2.5.

Left AND Right Hammers:

Middle Hammer


P2 Dance:
Initial pre-seed position: G1 left, G2 right.
E.g. right group:  
1-2-3 BOSS along the curve
-4-5- BOSS (ie further to the side of the platform)

1st, 3rd etc cycle
Smash - avoid
then Engulfing:
-Engulfing in across front zone means all strafe left middle zone
-Engulfing in middle zone means 1, 4 & 5 all strafe behind 2 & 3 in the front zone.  
-NB: Maintain 6yd spread!!  
then when your seed spawns run to blue collapse point in middle

2nd, 4th etc cycle

Engulfing:
-Engulfing in across front zone means all strafe left middle zone
-Engulfing in middle zone means 1, 4 & 5 all strafe behind 2 & 3 in the front zone.  
-NB: Maintain 6yd spread!!  
then when your seed spawns run to FRONT of platform in front of blue collapse point, WATCH OUT FOR SMASH on blue!!

NOTE: for RLs
Aim to time entry into P2.5 when adds are not up.

P2.5
Lava Scions spawn - one tank picks up both and kite to outer edge - also stun Sons!
then HEROISM?
All DPS aim to be behind their Son spawn point & burn Sons
Then DPS Scions
GTFO or PowerAura or BossMod ALERT if you get BLAZING HEAT.  Kite Blazing Heat away from adds if you can (regens 10% HP of Son if they touch it)
Tank2 get ready to pick up Ragnaros when he re-emerges

P3
Ensure Scions are dead (tank taunt rotation still need to be done)
Sulfuras Smash (easy)
Engulfing Flames (be prepared to move and stay near a transition line if you can to make moving from one band to the next quicker & less painful)
Summon Living Meteor:
-landing point of meteor is a fire circle appearing on ground
-once landed they focus and chase one person (fire line from meteor to target person)
-if meteor touches *anyone* it explodes (8yd kill radius)  
-??perhaps Dispersion kill first one for simplicity?
-stay clear of meteors
-if they get close attack and it will get knocked back away from you and then target new member
-do NOT kite meteors through raid!!

Tip For P2.5/P3 - Keep 1 son alive and on low hp (like 15%). This gives more time on the Lava Scions without having Ragnaros and his abilities to deal with <- and may indeed be a good moment to blow Heroism to kill those Scions asap. You do have to kill the son before the timer expires though or Ragnaros will emerge and just blow it up, causing the same effect as when it would reach the hammer otherwise.

As for Dispersion on the 1st Meteor, I found this on another website (including the caps): "METEORS ONE SHOT YOU EVEN THROUGH DISPERSION!"   The careful buildup and argumentation pattern of aforementioned sentence leads me to consider it highly probable that you will not survive a meteor hitting you when Dispersed.

Nice progress last night, but we need to establish a different way to deal with the arrival of the Scions in P2.5 without losing the tank.    In particular, we need to make sure that the tanks are on high health as we push over into P2.5 at 40%.  We need to make sure that Jas is not having to stun and this will free up the needed healing imo.  Healers, please post where you are standing in that phase please so that we can check range on relevant targets.

DPS did a nice job and on all but one try we managed to push over before an additional set of adds.

Once we find out where healers are standing we can adjust the P2.5 healing to allow the smoother transition.

would something like this adjustment work?
-moved TL to 1 for more dps on left
-Whytee stuns 7
-Torgen & anyone else pick up 7 once others <50%
-this frees up Jas to heal as both Halbarad losses were down to Jas having to stop healing to stun 1


Revised Sons positions: re-worked to allow better healing in P2.5

Left AND Right Hammers:

Middle Hammer


P2 Dance adjustments:
Initial pre-seed position: G1 left, G2 right.
E.g. right group:  
1-2-3 BOSS along the curve
-4-5- BOSS (ie further to the side of the platform)

Engulfing:
 remember G2 adjustment with staggered movement out of engulfing - 1 heals while 2 & 3 move.  1 moves and 2 heals when 2 reaches 1.  Urgent maintenance of 6yd spacing when all out of Engulfing.:



In other news:
Left & Right Hammers were 100% reliable yesterday, so we just need to handle middle hammer at P2.5 to see the end of this fight.  Kill on Tuesday I hope!

I have been taking 6 and stunning 7 on the way past on middle hammer anyway, so it should be ok.  I have a slight concern around positioning with the add in P2.5 but I need to try it again to see how it works out.

Ok, that should work on the Sons then as the original plan has Jesung on 7, so if his was getting stunned anyway then it frees Jes up to move to 8 and me to 1 on the other side as above.   A stun on 7 allows right side dps to handle 7 post-stun.

P2.5 always gives Middle yes? That's pretty handy to know! Should be good there yes. Especially with Middle Hammer I am always free after killing my own, with plenty of time to spare on others and often not really sure what to take. 7 is of course a much easier target for me than 1 as it's right infront of my face rather than across the room. It'll be fairly easy for me to wreck my own then dive into 7 afterwards. Consider it done :-)

Quote from: Azunai;332723P2.5 always gives Middle yes?

Nope, I just watched some more videos and it moves around.  I think the point that is important is that we have a solid strat for it if it is middle hammer and with the above changes I'm pretty comfortable that we have something that works.  I've edited the duff statement out of the OP!  Two errors in one thread, sheesh I need to retire!

Quote from: TeaLeaf;332736sheesh I need to retire!

Request denied!

I think you're an excellent raid leader :)

Adjustments from last night:

Revised Sons positions: re-worked to allow better healing in P2.5 (Jes & TL swapped on middle hammer)

Left AND Right Hammers:

Middle Hammer


P2 Dance adjustments:
Even numbered Seeds and/or clash with Engulfing, prio out of engulfing, then to collapse point infront of Blue at an angle to avoid Hammer.

DPS
We need to up the dps here.  We're running 12 minutes for the fight which is very slow, slow enough for us to get 2 heroisms into the fight (which is in itself good but bad overall).   We need to make sure that we push dps in every part of the fight, in particular when Sons spawn, there's at least 10 seconds dps time there before the Sons spawn so get into position & keep dpsing Ragnaros until he submerges, then you have plenty of time to turn and face your Son.  We need all the dps you can find here and are slacking at the moment and need more from everyone.

The Good News:
Hammers worked great last night so well done all on mastering that difficult phase of the fight.  I think we can safely say we are now on top of that aspect and it showed nicely by consistently getting into P3 and of course ultimate in the traditional sub-1% wipe.   Ode for another 0.9% dps and we would have had the kill last night!

Last night was what the US Army calls a 'cluster ****'.   We really screwed the pooch last night and only had time for 6 tries on Ragnaros - and we even managed to screw those up too.   We need to get back our focus fast.

Logs are here:
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/1dzwfh0q4cbnuadd/

Ragnaros Survivability is here:
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/1dzwfh0q4cbnuadd/survivability/?enc=wipes&boss=52409

Ragnaros Death Overview is here:
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/1dzwfh0q4cbnuadd/deaths/?enc=wipes&boss=52409

As an exercise in understanding why we died, if you were the first or second to die on any try, please can you post here in this thread why you died so that we can get a handle on how to make what we do more reliable?  It's only 6 tries to analyse and I've given everyone the links to the data, so let's see what we can come up with please.

I'll start the ball rolling by owning up to my own cock up on Try 3:

Try 1: Whitey - Lack of healing. I was tanking Rag at the time and other than Lifeblooms, and a couple of prayers I had no healing in the last 10 seconds before i died.
Try 1: Halbarad - From what I could see it was lack of healing up to the time up to my death, I was tanking rag for a time but whitey taunted him of me but I was never healed up enough to survive the seeds exploding

Try 2: Amberleigh - (TL comments:)Amber took a wrath just after Trap exploded.  Avoidable death if TL triggers trap at different time to Wrath (see Try 3 comments from TL).
Try 2: Halbarad - Lack of healing again, was during the seeds phase and I wasn't tanking raggy but was never healed up enough from the aoe dmg, only heals I got from amber the last 16 seconds was 1 Prayer of healing and 4 Glyph of Prayer of healing (got some other random healing as well but absolutely not enough)

Try 3: TL (1st to die) took a Wrath just as he stepped in to trigger a trap - combined damage too much.  My own fault, should have watched Wrath timers before triggering trap (damnit Jes, get online again soon to do your normal trap triggering role!).  Won't happen again as I now know the clash.
Try 3: Halbarad - Lack of healing from amber when tanking raggy, only got 1 GH and 3 Glyph of player of healing the last 15 sec

Try 4: Halbarad - Lack of healing from amber. Got 2 binding heals and 2 prayer of healing but nothing the last 8 seconds
Try 4: Torgen - (TL comments:) Standing in Magma?

Try 5: Whitey - Double molten seed hit as I was next to JAS when I ran out for Engulfing Flames, followed by 2 melee hits from Rag. Amber didn't move out and jas had no where to run if i remember correctly.
Try 5: Jas/Puja - took more than one Seed explosion  

Try 6: Halbarad - Was tanking rag and never got big enough heals, got 4 prayer of mending and 1 flash heal the last 15 sec from amber and that's not enough, got some spare heals from jas and 1 riptide from puja but they are doing other jobs so I can't blame them for not healing me
Try 6: Torgen - I died due to Engulfing that happens during the killing of seed adds, which was in the Front. I move out of this by moving to max melee range. Going out far enough first then shoving back in until I can hit Ragnaros again - that's the safe spot where I won't get hit by Engulfing. I must have had a seed targeted however, as I didn't get in range despite moving forward. Ultimately I moved forward into Engulfing, heard the EENGG! by GTFO and hopped back out, but died regardless. While not looking to blame something else -> we were already pretty low on HP iirc, cause 1 Engulfing doesn't kill.

Try 1:  Lack of healing.  I was tanking Rag at the time and other than Lifeblooms, and a couple of prayers I had no healing in the last 10 seconds before i died.

Try 5:  Double molten seed hit as I was next to JAS when I ran out for Engulfing Flames, followed by 2 melee hits from Rag.  Amber didn't move out and jas had no where to run if i remember correctly.

Try 6 I was second to fall: I died due to Engulfing that happens during the killing of seed adds, which was in the Front. I move out of this by moving to max melee range. Going out far enough first then shoving back in until I can hit Ragnaros again - that's the safe spot where I won't get hit by Engulfing. I must have had a seed targeted however, as I didn't get in range despite moving forward. Ultimately I moved forward into Engulfing, heard the EENGG! by GTFO and hopped back out, but died regardless. While not looking to blame something else -> we were already pretty low on HP iirc, cause 1 Engulfing doesn't kill.

Gonna nail it tonite. Tonite. Tonite.

Nailing tonite. No DCs tonite. (Work connection). Gonna so nail it.

Before tonight, let's bump for the remaining info requested in my previous post please.  It should not always be spending the time doing the wipe analysis, so I'd be grateful if we can spread the load.  It takes 1 min to figure out what happened and to post, so it won't take people long (thanks to those who have already replied).

Quote from: Slush;333174Gonna nail it tonite. Tonite. Tonite.

Nailing tonite. No DCs tonite. (Work connection). Gonna so nail it.

Main reason for that will be the nerf tbh. We better get him tonight ><

Try 1: From what I could see it was lack of healing up to the time up to my death, I was tanking rag for a time but whitey taunted him of me but I was never healed up enough to survive the seeds exploding

Try 2: Lack of healing again, was during the seeds phase and I wasn't tanking raggy but was never healed up enough from the aoe dmg, only heals I got from amber the last 16 seconds was 1 Prayer of healing and 4 Glyph of Prayer of healing (got some other random healing as well but absolutely not enough)

try 3: Lack of healing from amber when tanking raggy, only got 1 GH and 3 Glyph of player of healing the last 15 sec

Try 4: Lack of healing from amber. Got 2 binding heals and 2 prayer of healing but nothing the last 8 seconds

Try 6: Was tanking rag and never got big enough heals, got 4 prayer of mending and 1 flash heal the last 15 sec from amber and that's not enough, got some spare heals from jas and 1 riptide from puja but they are doing other jobs so I can't blame them for not healing me

Summary: I didn't get enough healing when I was tanking raggy and even when I wasn't tanking him I hardly got any heals and died from random dmg and the dot from raggy wish is strange since I should have amber healing me almost constantly

Quote from: TeaLeaf;333136Try 1: Whitey - Lack of healing. I was tanking Rag at the time and other than Lifeblooms, and a couple of prayers I had no healing in the last 10 seconds before i died.
Try 1: Halbarad - From what I could see it was lack of healing up to the time up to my death, I was tanking rag for a time but whitey taunted him of me but I was never healed up enough to survive the seeds exploding

Try 2: Amberleigh - (TL comments:)Amber took a wrath just after Trap exploded.  Avoidable death if TL triggers trap at different time to Wrath (see Try 3 comments from TL).
Try 2: Halbarad - Lack of healing again, was during the seeds phase and I wasn't tanking raggy but was never healed up enough from the aoe dmg, only heals I got from amber the last 16 seconds was 1 Prayer of healing and 4 Glyph of Prayer of healing (got some other random healing as well but absolutely not enough)

Try 3: TL (1st to die) took a Wrath just as he stepped in to trigger a trap - combined damage too much.  My own fault, should have watched Wrath timers before triggering trap (damnit Jes, get online again soon to do your normal trap triggering role!).  Won't happen again as I now know the clash.
Try 3: Halbarad - Lack of healing from amber when tanking raggy, only got 1 GH and 3 Glyph of player of healing the last 15 sec

Try 4: Halbarad - Lack of healing from amber. Got 2 binding heals and 2 prayer of healing but nothing the last 8 seconds
Try 4: Torgen - (TL comments:) Standing in Magma?

Try 5: Whitey - Double molten seed hit as I was next to JAS when I ran out for Engulfing Flames, followed by 2 melee hits from Rag. Amber didn't move out and jas had no where to run if i remember correctly.
Try 5: Jas/Puja - took more than one Seed explosion  

Try 6: Halbarad - Was tanking rag and never got big enough heals, got 4 prayer of mending and 1 flash heal the last 15 sec from amber and that's not enough, got some spare heals from jas and 1 riptide from puja but they are doing other jobs so I can't blame them for not healing me
Try 6: Torgen - I died due to Engulfing that happens during the killing of seed adds, which was in the Front. I move out of this by moving to max melee range. Going out far enough first then shoving back in until I can hit Ragnaros again - that's the safe spot where I won't get hit by Engulfing. I must have had a seed targeted however, as I didn't get in range despite moving forward. Ultimately I moved forward into Engulfing, heard the EENGG! by GTFO and hopped back out, but died regardless. While not looking to blame something else -> we were already pretty low on HP iirc, cause 1 Engulfing doesn't kill.

So this is where everyone died (I filled in blanks where we had a missing response).  The good news is that there is nothing here that is not fixable.

I looked at the first 2 deaths as 1 death is recoverable with a BR, but 2 is a wipe.

-6 tries
-12 deaths

-2 of 12 deaths due to TL learning when to trigger traps - these are now learnt and will not happen again.
-2 of 12 deaths due to Torgen standing in stuff. If we take the **** out of him enough he won't do it again.
-2 of 12 deaths due to not maintaining 6yd spacing for Seeds (this is totally avoidable and we should focus on this bit, it is called on TS and you get plenty of warning)
-6 of 12 losses of an MT, 1 of Whitey (Jas) and 5 of Halbarad (Amberleigh). (this is avoidable and happening way too often - on 5 out of 6 tries we did not heal the MT enough)

We *have* to learn from this folks; too many 'should not happen' errors are burning tries and wasting our time.

Quote from: TeaLeaf;333184-2 of 12 deaths due to not maintaining 6yd spacing for Seeds (this is totally avoidable and we should focus on this bit, it is called on TS and you get plenty of warning)

-2 of 12 deaths due to not maintaining atleast 6yd spacing for Seeds.

Personally, I prefer 10yards. :-)

Difficult, as Engulfing Flames makes 10yds to far to run, especially when you don't have instant ghost wolf in your build :P  I prefer minimum spacing, but you are absolutely correct, >6yds, not 6yd spacing!

My standing in Magma deaths are all on wipe calls (I just jump forward and die). I'm not so silly I would actually go and take a swim mid-fight for no reason ;-) That one where I died second to that, you must have called a wipe early or some other thing. I did not die once to that while not intending so myself (i.e. on a wipe).

Nps, I figured it was something like that but the timning was wierd, it was much earlier than other deaths - we'll blame Jas for that one instead then :p

Can we still take the **** out of you anyway though please?  :getmecoat:

It's why I'm there innit? :rolleyes:

ohohohohoh yeah...




HE IS DOWN!!!!!!!!!


and that just before the nerf.

way to go DMR!

Gtz guys

Nice one guys. Bit gutted I couldn't get him down before the nerf but a big Gratz to everyone.

I knew he would kneel to the mighty powers of DMR.
Ragnaros - RGT   124-1

Off topic: I was carried.
More off topic: Timing for heroism. Brilliant.

Yeah, the first time we moved heroism to the start of P3 to get maximum burn to finish Scions and get onto Ragnaros he dropped like a charm, even with some late deaths.  We'd been using heroism at start of P1 to help the learning of the initial part of the fight, but by the time the 10 mins CD was up and we were ready to use heroism again in P3 we had too many orbs to kite for it to be any use.  Definitley worked a charm deferring heroism until P3 entry.

Video of the kill is currently compiling and will be uploaded shortly.  You'll be treated to some classic Tiesto and Paul Van Dyk to accompany the memories!

Oohh almost forgot to type this down as we killed him:rolleyes:

But the melee dps front has a sort of little problem in phase 3 in that left far corner....


As soon as there are 2 or 3 meteors comming our way we are a bit in trouble. As i was the only one from the two that could attack the meteors as Torgen only has 1 ranged attack once a min. And using his shooting ability takes to much time.
So it was me looking out for Torgen, Puja and myself or maybe even Slush if he ran towards us.

What i did was that i maked sure i stayed close or in the area near Torgen so that i could step in if he was in trouble, plus i attacked the meteor that was following Puja when he became cornered in at our side.

This worked out fine the last try but not for 2 other tries as in those 2 i got targeted alot more then in the last one. So i was kiting 1 at the back and not even close to being able to save Torgen. or we where both the target and got closed in with engulfing flame behind us a big lava pool infront (we can go up on the side and move behind the boss but then we have no escape route at all or any healing) of us so that ment no where to run and a little problem attacking the meteors with a big boss filling up your screen..


So anyone has a nice idea to sort of trying to avoid a situation like that without causing more stress :narnar:


But i had to say with the last try it went somewhat smooth but we where a bit more lucky with the engulfingflame placement aswell.

bumped for RGW

Sweet, gratz! :-D

Quote from: Azunai;334208Sweet, gratz! :-D

I think Az is still suffering from the after-effects of the LAN party & Guild Meet! :roflmao:

For RGW:
With the benefit of an additional night's recovery from the Guild Meet, here's an updated list of positions for the Sons that might help.  The only thing I changed from last night is to swap a couple of assignments to make the assignment number the same on any type of hammer for a couple of people (e.g. Pals & Hermi are now always on the same number whichever side the hammer is on etc)

Left AND Right Hammers:


Middle Hammer


Remember - the pictures Torgen loaded do not all correspond to the number system RGT used, that's why you were getting confused.  The above tables count from the Hammer side, so if it is a:
-left hammer then the very far left Son is #1, the furthest away on the far right would be #8:   1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8
-right hammer then the very far right Son is #1, the furthest away on the far left would be #8:  8-7-6-5-4-3-2-1
-middle hammer is always counted left to right from the platform entrance, so the very far left Son is #1, the very far right would be #8:  1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8


Hope this helps.

[22:04:41.465] Son of Flame Supernova Slush 66167 (R: 28357)
[22:04:41.970] Amberleigh Prayer of Mending Slush +6621
[22:04:42.243] Ragnaros Lava Bolt Slush 40742 (R: 4527)
[22:04:43.644] Slush Riptide Slush +10178
[22:04:43.793] Slush Riptide Noréia +2765
[22:04:45.913] Slush Greater Healing Wave Hubbah +34658
[22:04:46.295] Slush Riptide Slush +*6203*
[22:04:46.499] Slush Riptide Noréia +*5490*
[22:04:49.003] Slush Greater Healing Wave Sheepat +34725
[22:04:49.003] Slush Riptide Slush +2968
[22:04:49.217] Slush Riptide Noréia +2705
[22:04:50.194] Ragnaros Lava Bolt Slush 35539 (R: 8885)
[22:04:50.915] Unknown Sulfuras Slush 32115 (O: 15972, R: 20609)
[22:04:51.218] Slush dies

TL:
You asked me whatt happened to me last night on Raggy try 4.
This is it.
Check out the first line. That just kept happening. For all 5 tries. :-D So... The hammer didnt kill me, tbh... Someone who cant count to 8 did. I was running towards ppl on far left to avoid them being killed, and well... hammer was just the last drop.

Quote from: Slush;335599[22:04:41.465] Son of Flame Supernova Slush 66167 (R: 28357)
[22:04:41.970] Amberleigh Prayer of Mending Slush +6621
[22:04:42.243] Ragnaros Lava Bolt Slush 40742 (R: 4527)
[22:04:43.644] Slush Riptide Slush +10178
[22:04:43.793] Slush Riptide Noréia +2765
[22:04:45.913] Slush Greater Healing Wave Hubbah +34658
[22:04:46.295] Slush Riptide Slush +*6203*
[22:04:46.499] Slush Riptide Noréia +*5490*
[22:04:49.003] Slush Greater Healing Wave Sheepat +34725
[22:04:49.003] Slush Riptide Slush +2968
[22:04:49.217] Slush Riptide Noréia +2705
[22:04:50.194] Ragnaros Lava Bolt Slush 35539 (R: 8885)
[22:04:50.915] Unknown Sulfuras Slush 32115 (O: 15972, R: 20609)
[22:04:51.218] Slush dies

TL:
You asked me whatt happened to me last night on Raggy try 4.
This is it.
Check out the first line. That just kept happening. For all 5 tries. :-D So... The hammer didnt kill me, tbh... Someone who cant count to 8 did. I was running towards ppl on far left to avoid them being killed, and well... hammer was just the last drop.

I told you it was when a son hit the hammer :P

change suggestion for the rotation.

Tanking I can take one add down to 50% on my own. I have been thinking and really don;t konw why I don't swap to kitty for it. Tank stun, kitty mode. combo up. stun again (if needed)

Boomy, again 1 for me is fine. Remeber that boomy's have the shrooms with aoe slow effect so if the adds are effected by it (not sure) it should be used in a line to help reduce the preasures. Possibly a shroom on the closet 3 adds for a littile extra burst damage and slow.

I think we need to bump this thread. With all the new additions to RGW we really need to go over the roatations and everything.

Finally got P1 and 2 cleared, now we need to get a hang of P3, which mainly means we need to see it alot.

if I would like to give some suggestions ......
 in T2 we may keep a son alive as possible to delay the start of P3 (which will start anyway after 45sec), so we will have more time to kill the 2 big adds. I was thinking the 7 in L&R hammers and 1 or 8 in middle.
 one important thing is to use the hero at the beginning of P3, this phase should last for as little as possible, with too many balls (3 +) is impossible concentrate dps on rag.

What do you think?

Quote from: hermioneg;337513if I would like to give some suggestions ......
 in T2 we may keep a son alive as possible to delay the start of P3 (which will start anyway after 45sec), so we will have more time to kill the 2 big adds. I was thinking the 7.
 one important thing is to use the hero at the beginning of P3, this phase should last for as little as possible, with too many balls (3 +) is impossible.

What do you think?

It's a valid tactic and can allow you to focus longer on the boss once into the final stage.  Just make sure the son is dead before the 45 seconds are up or it will probably wipe you.

I'd put Hero as soon as you have the 2 big adds stable. You want them down asap as the phase where the big adds and Rag are up at the same time is quite hazardous - you have to deal with P3 stuff still, like smash and flames on the floor, while having people getting the debuff from the add as well (I've forgotten all the names, you can tell :P). The rest of P3 may look hectic and 'omg what do we do now?' like, but in reality it's actually quite stable and as long as you handle the meteors right you can really stretch it for quite some time. You will very likely reach 3 balls in the end, possibly 4. Just focus on proper handling of the balls instead of going apeshit on boss and risk getting headbutted by a meteor, and he'll go down eventually.

As for leaving the son up, yes that's viable indeed. As long as you remember to slow it first and make sure people who get the debuff don't run in front of its path. And of course remember to kill it before Rag gets up or you get the same effect as if he were to reach the hammer. Although it doesn't have to wipe you post-nerf, it can be quite lethal to your add tank at this time.

Keeping a Son alive is more tricky than it sounds.  One mis-placed debuff could cause the Son to accelerate to the Hammer and blow the raid up.  It's easier to just burn them down asap imo rather than trying to finesse it.  Blow heroism as soon as the Sons are down and that gives the DPS boost on the Scion dps and on Ragnaros (as all dps classes should be DOTing up both the two Scions *and* Ragnaros at the same time where they have DOTs in their armory).  There should then be a goodly chunk of heroism left when the Scions go down to leave unfettered DPS time on Ragnaros.

Thx for bringing me along for this one, was great to finally see him go down.
Also, now we can do HCs, which might be usefull for the extra dps/heals.

And dont forget thx for the gear :D  5/5 T12;)

Quote from: Arcticfire;338164Thx for bringing me along for this one, was great to finally see him go down.
Also, now we can do HCs, which might be usefull for the extra dps/heals.

And dont forget thx for the gear :D  5/5 T12;)

I don't know... bloody free loader :P

hahaha.. guessing Dre could have used it beter then us.. its only fair to pass to him :)
Gl on heroics tonight guys & girls :)

Wait.. what? Tier token dropped from raggy? Hahaha, ofcourse it did :roflmao:

And im still in my 3/5 T12 :-)

aaarrgghh betrayal!!  :ranting2:
 drea ... how could you! :angry:
anyway congratulations   :D

Quote from: hermioneg;338201aaarrgghh betrayal!!  :ranting2:
 drea ... how could you! :angry:
anyway congratulations   :D

thats what you get for doing that RL stuff :)

Quote from: hubbah;338204thats what you get for doing that RL stuff :)

lol joking of course .....
 I hope that drea has learned how to defeat rag. So tonight  we ll boast a new RGW Achieve ....:boxing:

wrong quote.. duh ..

that was supposed to go to Slush.. :P

Quote from: hermioneg;338201aaarrgghh betrayal!!  :ranting2:
 drea ... how could you! :angry:
anyway congratulations   :D

I did it for the team hermi, really I did. It was a pain to hang out with these guys

I know drea ...  you want to try some HC tonight??     :g:

Quote from: hermioneg;338245I know drea ...  you want to try some HC tonight??     :g:

Yes that is why he bumped some threads for RGW.  Take a look at Shannox HC and Allyz HC.  ;)

Quote from: Slush;338197Wait.. what? Tier token dropped from raggy? Hahaha, ofcourse it did :roflmao:

And im still in my 3/5 T12 :-)

same here.. so what´s a token? :rolleyes:

and hope that it help us that ya in rgt showed Drea how to do it

They dont do it different pals, they just dont make errors in P1-2, meaning they can/could practise alot on P3. 4 people died but they still managed to kill him.
Our problem lies in the fact that we arent getting to p3 enough, meaning we cant practise it.

Quote from: pälsboll;338261and hope that it help us that ya in rgt showed Drea how to do it

Not exaclty!  We had a real sloppy try (we were all real disappointed at not having HC Ragnaros available), so lost 2 people in P2-3 transition and another couple in P3, we still managed to kill the boss though.  But I think Drea already knew how to kill Ragnaros - and he did not die last night and was the same HPSe as RGT's top healer for the fight.  

Job well done Drea :thumbsup:

was a pretty silly try :) some stupid hunter hit his deterence instead of arcane shot when he was in the corner and by doing that killing him self and almost killing grim.. :D

Quote from: hubbah;338265was a pretty silly try :) some stupid hunter hit his deterence instead of arcane shot when he was in the corner and by doing that killing him self and almost killing grim.. :D

Yeah i was already wondering about what you where doing....  If it wasn't you with the meteors in my corner it was TL :narnar: but i think Torgen was the one that really had enough and just died twice during that try:sideways:

Quote from: Arcticfire;338262They dont do it different pals, they just dont make errors in P1-2

Tbh, that sums up the way RGT tries to raid.  I say try as we'll all make mistakes sometimes, but the difference is in what the raid members then do about it.  If you repeat the same errors time and time again nobody progresses and the repetition of mistakes is what we try to minimise.  

In RGT, after each pull we try to identify who died, what went wrong, how it can be avoided next time so that we don't waste each other's time and so that we all progress.  I'm pretty sure that some people feel singled out sometimes, but it is for the good of the raid group in the long run and we try to do it in a nice way, but we still have to call out poor performers and errors, there's no other way around it.

In essence we try to help people focus on where they are going wrong and identify what they need to do to fix it.   You can take that approach one of two ways: either in a constructive way (which RGT do in the main), or as a negative comment that tries to put someone down. How the raid members take the feedback from the RL will affect your progress as a raid.  If you ignore the feedback and e.g. are still being hit by Lava Waves after 6-8 weeks in P1 of Ragnaros...........well there's a boss mod warning for it, you can set a warning klaxon for it, you can get your screen to flash for it, you get a verbal warning on TS for it, it's got a 5 second pre-animation of where it is spawning, and it travels slowly across the room - you want a registered letter and an email too?   Seriously basic stuff.  If someone can't handle that kind of simple mechanic perhaps they are not suited to raiding and should volunteer to sit out of the encounter?  It's that sort of inept performance that destroys raids and the group's morale.  Everyone needs to take personal responsibility for doing there bit.   If *everyone* in RGW does that, then nobody's efforts will be wasted and Ragnaros will drop very very quickly.

Quote from: TeaLeaf;338271If *everyone* in RGW does that, then nobody's efforts will be wasted and Ragnaros will drop very very quickly.

I agree ..... tl
 but I looked at the log of your raid ...
 drea did the same as the RGT healers, but not dpser ... We are down about 13k dps (you have 3 people over 20k)   ,,
so we need a P1 - T1 - P2 - T2 with no errors..:sad:

Bugger let me die too. Twice.

Quote from: Arcticfire;338224I did it for the team hermi, really I did. It was a pain to hang out with these guys

Bugger let me die too. Twice.

:narnar:

cant remember :P