Any of the officers that could shed some light on the the policy of using Living Embers from the guildbank to craft gear?
The Earthen Scale Sabatons (http://www.wowhead.com/item=69949) would be a nice upgrade for me (ilvl 365->378).
My orbs (at this moment 54) are available to craft items for guild members too. I have all ilvl 378 leatherworking recipes available.
At the moment they are gonna be used for officers and raidleaders(ofcourse) only, the discussion atm is who first.
on a more serious note, the discussion about how to provide them to the guild is busy.
Current status
We all agree they will go for dkp (same as our boe auction rules)
The sticking point / points. We have 30 people wanting dibbs on 4 at a time. (We hoped they would be more abundant than they are) The 1billion$ question is should they be open to both teams or should each team only get the ones that dropped for them. The jury is out on this at the moment. We have pushed both sides of this and im still scratching my head reagrding the outcome.
As an example rgw gains dkp slightly faster than rgt due to decay levels.. rgt have gained the majority of drops due to more raid nights
Do we help with the purchase of embers ? As we did with enchants
Will my bum look big in this ?
Nothing has been set in stone as yet so input is welcome. Ill draw a line that we have it sorted by the end of raid sunday
Quote from: JonnyAppleSeed;330592Will my bum look big in this ?
Looking for a fight? :narnar:
Private opinion, other (RGW)
lootninja raiders may disagree :g: :
Let each group keep it's own Living Embers. I don't want to use Living Embers my team did not fight for.
All recipes (http://www.wowhead.com/item=69237#reagent-for) need 4 Living Embers. Give them out per set of 4.
Let the teams decide by them selves how to assign them: e.g. most dkp bid/paid, open/closed bidding, biggest upgrade,
paid most bribes to other teammembers, attendance ratio, how long the person has been playing in the team, not getting the legendary caster weapon, any fair and objective reason.
But make the decision once and communicate it clearly on the forum so everyone can know, and the process of assigning the Living Embers is transparent.
After a few weeks, when a team has no use anymore for the Living Embers for the raid mains, make a new decision where the Living Embers will go: e.g. raid alts that are actually helping the raid team on regular basis, other raid team, alts/socials, Auction House, etc. And communicate the decision again clearly.
Above examples are not necessarily my preferred/suggested order, just the order I made them up.:2cents:
I agree with Lego, that they should go to the raid group that looted them, as this will also stop people arguing over how many there are (for example say RGT took 8 of the twelve from the bank and RGW had theoretically supplied the bullk somehow or in reverse, this is bound to rustle some feather) and as to how to auction them id say we auction them in lots of 4 as lets face it getting jsut 1 or 2 embers cause you couldnt afford the DKP individually makes them pretty darn pointless since all recipies NEED 4 embers.
Lego the living embers arnt used in the legendary staff thats a diffrent ember (an epic one) that we have been giving to herm every time one drops.
After the mains are upgraded with Living ember gear (boots gloves etc) id say they should be used on raid alts and then to craft equipment that can be bank stored for a set time (to allow others or new raiders the cahnce to get it if needed) then auctioned if no one claims them.
And dont make players pay gold for them as whilst some of us may be gold tychoons and good at generating gold i know several who always seem to be in exceptionally low figures and this would exclude them from aquiring the loot (yes i know there monetary value before anyone says anything).
Attendance should be a factor in this as well as possibly the upgrade ratio (as a minor upgrade to one person for 4 embers could be a massive upgrade for another such as 359 > 378 over a 365 > 378 the lowest geared would be priorotised first) and by attendance i dont mean 100% then 99% etc, i mean people who have for the most part attended to there fullest possibly only missing the odd number of raids (set a max number if you exceed it you move to the second tier of priority?)
Just my take on it all
Vlad
Quote from: vladic;330619I agree with Lego, that they should go to the raid group that looted them, as this will also stop people arguing over how many there are
Someone argued over this? lol u mad bro?
Quote from: vladic;330619(for example say RGT took 8 of the twelve from the bank and RGW had theoretically supplied the bullk somehow or in reverse, this is bound to rustle some feather)
Its a player recieving what is won in an auction. There is no RGW vs. RGT bidding. Its Jesung vs. Hermioneg vs. Nims bidding.
I agree fully with Jas.
DKP is the only way to go. 4 at the time to get an item from them. Why split raidgroups on these embers to make an artificial gap? Im sure the BoE auctions already gained both raidgroups already. And this will keep the RGs competing and being flexible to eachother.
RGW are having 3 raid days (+decay) soon, so the amount of DKP going into teh different raidgroups will be approx equal, amIrite?
Ofcourse they should go in sets of 4, thats not even where the discussion is at.
I dont think we should split them up between RGT and RGW, we didnt do that with BoE epics either did we?
I dont think RGW gets more DKP then RGT, RGW gets 14 per week minus the decay of 4 is 10. RGT gets 21 per week and the decay isnt 11 or 12 IIRC:P
And what I requested in the other topic was that we do look at how big the upgrade is + attendance.
Quote from: Arcticfire;330625And what I requested in the other topic was that we do look at how big the upgrade is + attendance.
Hey ho, im only at 67% attendance, and an upgrade would give me the chance to replace a 372 with a 378. This means ill never get hold of any embers, bro? Even if I hold 100 dkp for 2 months straight?
Or wait, I attend 2 raids every week, meaning... if I raid 3 days in the next weeks, I will have higher attendance than any RGWer
Embers within reach!
DKP reflects attendace. DKP also reflects how many upgrades you have obtained, and how likely it is to get more.Quote from: Arcticfire;330625I dont think RGW gets more DKP then RGT, RGW gets 14 per week minus the decay of 4 is 10. RGT gets 21 per week and the decay isnt 11 or 12 IIRC
A RGW full time raider will get 10 dkp each week if raiding goes as normal
A RGT full time raider will get 14 dkp each week ((3raidsx7dkp) - 7 dkp/week(decay)) if raiding goes as normal.
Example:
I raid 2 days per week, get 7 dkp each week. I have 67% attendance.
Dreaman raids 2 days per week, gets 10 dkp each week. He has 100% attendace.
Now... With the model he is in favor of, he would get much more dkp than me and have dibs on Embers, cant really see that this is fair in any way.
Edit: I dont need anything from Embers, just want it to be fair.
Quote from: Slush;330626Hey ho, im only at 67% attendance, and an upgrade would give me the chance to replace a 372 with a 378. This means ill never get hold of any embers, bro? Even if I hold 100 dkp for 2 months straight?
If someone has 100% attendance and it is a bigger upgrade for that person, then ye.
QuoteDKP reflects attendance. DKP also reflects how many upgrades you have obtained, and how likely it is to get more.
[/U]Agree. Disagree. Disagree.
Quote[/U]Example:
I raid 2 days per week, get 7 dkp each week. I have 67% attendance.
Dreaman raids 2 days per week, gets 10 dkp each week. He has 100% attendace.
Now... With the model he is in favor of, he would get much more dkp than me and have dibs on Embers, cant really see that this is fair in any way.
Edit: I dont need anything from Embers, just want it to be fair.
With this model yes, but if you pick a 100% attendance for both then you are in favor.
My idea was that there is a bid opened for 4 Embers, people sign up for the bid by saying what they wanna buy and what it replaces. Then a selection is made and people can bid.
Ofcourse this is only for now since we dont have enough Embers to supply everyones needs.
Quote from: Arcticfire;330631My idea was that there is a bid opened for 4 Embers, people sign up for the bid by saying what they wanna buy and what it replaces. Then a selection is made and people can bid. Ofcourse this is only for now since we dont have enough Embers to supply everyones needs.
Wait? Bid? With dkp? So you want 40+ people signing up for the embers every time we get 4 of them? And officers going through attendance logs, only selecting people with 100% attendance, and that has 353/359 gear to replace... Then the 100% attendants can bid with their dkp? Furthermore; people on 80% attendance will not get hold of any, like ever? Only if 100% people got all they needed?
If so; Just ... no. Too complicated, too squishy, too much hassle and not fair.
First of all, we spent 5 weeks getting to 4 Embers. I think droprate will increase very soon. When it happens; the way this is handled should be swift and without hassle.
Quote from: Slush;330633Wait? Bid? With dkp? So you want 40+ people signing up for the embers every time we get 4 of them? And officers going through attendance logs, only selecting people with 100% attendance, and that has 353/359 gear to replace... Then the 100% attendants can bid with their dkp?
If so; Just ... no. Too complicated, too squishy, too much hassle and not fair.
First of all, we spent 5 weeks getting to 4 Embers. I think droprate will increase very soon. When it happens; the way this is handled should be swift and without hassle.
Ye with DKP, thats 1 thing that is sure. people wanting embers will need to buy them with DKP.
Noone said that only people with 100% attendance get picked, its a matter of balance.
It isnt complicated, not really squishy, not that much hassle and ofcourse its not fair, but whatever you try it wont be fair because everyone will have something to baww about.
I disagree.
Quote from: Slush;330623Why split raidgroups on these embers to make an artificial gap? Im sure the BoE auctions already gained both raidgroups already.
The difference with the BOE loot is that all of the mains in the raid group who earned the BOE have a chance to get it before it goes on the forum for both raid groups. RGT have earned the majority of the embers currently in GB and the people who earned them have not had a chance to bid on them. So the comparison with BOE's is not a fair one.
Keep posting your opinions please. :)
1a) If too many people have a problem with RGW bidding on RGT Embers and vice versa, separate the storage and handout for RGW and RGT
1b) Else lump the two stacks together, to be bid on by both groups.
2) Put the embers up for auction every time you have 4, over a period of a week or so on forums. At least in a way to give everyone a chance to bid.
3) Give to highest bidder, as with normal loot.
Problem = where?
Quote from: Azunai;3306461a) If too many people have a problem with RGW bidding on RGT Embers and vice versa, separate the storage and handout for RGW and RGT
1b) Else lump the two stacks together, to be bid on by both groups.
2) Put the embers up for auction every time you have 4, over a period of a week or so on forums. At least in a way to give everyone a chance to bid.
3) Give to highest bidder, as with normal loot.
Problem = where?
How about combining 1a, 2 and 3?
Do a !bid everytime a raidgroup reaches 4 embers?
Rgt/Rgw embers have been won with rgt helping . I think the RL look at attendance and gear and make a decision that benefits the raid, upgrade for someone not there? Minor upgrade for a position that doesn't need it tank/heals/melee/ranged go with head not heart
Quote from: Legolei;330600Private opinion, other (RGW) lootninja raiders
lol Lego do you think im a lootninja??? suits me use DKP or any other way you feel appropriate.
but dont call me LOOTNINJA!!!!:angry:
Ps I personally did not need the Tailoring objects, but I collect them for the legendary staff......:norty:
PPs and i think any1 needs only 4 to gear upgrade....cmon its hands or feet only.... i think you take T12 gloves (at least for main)...and you quarrel for 1 object??
i saw now tailoring boot http://www.wowhead.com/item=69954 ...wow :rolleyes:
I dont see us using attendance as a baseline or the level of upgrade. Thats what dkp is for you earn your dkp you decide how to spend it. If it gives you better gear it helps the raid. I can confirm they will go as a batch of 4
Nice to see some discussion, hopefully the officers will have a bit less problems in making the decision.
Just to clarify 1 thing from my 2nd post: I just listed possible grounds of assignment and possible ways.
I only want a fair and transparent way, that is clearly communicated.
PS: No Hermi, not you :devil2:
At sith, mentioning the "with RGT helping" kinda makes it sound like we wouldnt have aquired anything on our own which to be honest the only times RGT input in raids now is for new bosses like ryolith and even then input has become minimum these days so this shouldnt play a contributing factor.
Second as far as i know RGW have gotten a living ember every Shannox and beth kill which must add up to 8 embers ish now (my math may be off here but it sounds about right) and im all for using DKP to bid for the embers but what people are really asking is how are we going to divide them? is it going to be auctioned between both Raid Groups? (we should set a minimum attendance or you could have someone come back after 6 months of no raiding with 100DKP and just outbid everyone like you did with the BOE's for Deminion in the guild bank, not enoguh attendance he didnt get them).
I like lego's idea of saying what they are upgrading and what the enhancment is however this would only work if both Raid groups are seperated or if we used this RGW would pretty much get priority on them all as RGT is better geared then all of us anyway.
so personally i say: (and bearing in mind i know its a guild and we share but something like this isnt practical with us all on different equipment and raid tiers)
1: RGW gets there embers after they gather 4 and RGT get theres after they gather 4 that way no group can get in a huff or anything along those lines
2: DKP bid as per usual for the set of 4 but there must be an attendance minimum to allow bidding for example we have a shaman in RGW who attended twice tops, he wouldnt be aloud.
3: Looking at gear may be beneficial if we notice soemone falling really behind with there gear (for example still have blue gloves or feet for what ever reason) as the only pieces that can be replaced are feet and gloves anyway, other then that stick to rule 2.
Thats best way i can see it making sence and being pretty equal, sure RGW will need more time to gather 4 but least then it simplifies it. as for the 12 in there now id say give 4 to RGW 4 to RGT and then have raid leaders /roll or something for the remaining four
Quote from: hermioneg;330662Ps I personally did not need the Tailoring objects, but I collect them for the legendary staff......:norty:
You collect Eternal Ember (http://www.wowhead.com/item=71141) for the staff, and we are happy to give them to you :)
Quote from: Slush;330647How about combining 1a, 2 and 3?
Do a !bid everytime a raidgroup reaches 4 embers?
It was a step by step thing.. So yea, 1 2 3 ;-)
@ Vlad @ Sith.. I didn't mean to imply that RGW would not get them under their on volition, just to highlight it may not be as clean cut split them down the middle.
cheers :)
Quote from: Legolei;330669You collect Eternal Ember (http://www.wowhead.com/item=71141) for the staff, and we are happy to give them to you :)
oooh its true.....better :doh:
We have 2 raid grps....set the embers apart imo....saves alot of bitching and such....
So RGT get 16 in a week great new upgrades for RGT!.....Rgw get 6 still some1 gets an upgrade
People are going to QQ all day about this so what ever is in guild bank i say goes to RGT i want them (and the guild) to progress in ranks and the gear will help do this... From a set date any that drop go to seperate slots in the bank its not hard to watch the log and from there let it be a dkp auction....i know it s more effort on the officers and sorry chaps or the only other way is when they drop...each individual dkp rolls in the raid...
On behalf of Council, can I close this thread.
Council will post up what will happen with the Living Embers shortly, then you'll know what will actually happen rather than continue with the guessing! As was originally stated, we wanted to see the drop rate before deciding, so give it a few days and Council will post up what the official policy will be for both raid groups.
Quote from: TeaLeaf;330802On behalf of Council, can I close this thread.
Council will post up what will happen with the Living Embers shortly, then you'll know what will actually happen rather than continue with the guessing! As was originally stated, we wanted to see the drop rate before deciding, so give it a few days and Council will post up what the official policy will be for both raid groups.
Please close the thread once the Council's decision has been published.
Jas promised a decision around the time of sunday's raid.
Wooow... Posting in a closed thread! Nanananana :yahoo::yahoo::yahoo: