hi All,
Struggling with some things here...(first ones personal...rest is just the game)
server full of tubers
who don't have a dMw tag
as neither do i or many supporting members - so why am i supporting this if i can't even wear my badge ? and every tubin other person who joins can ?
blah blah "play in the dMw way" yeah been doing so since 02 as have many others perhaps give the badge to supporting members until they prove not worthy of it then remove and put on trial after a "re-adjustment" chat.... quite annoying that bit. (i have certainly contributed and yes i feel i have the right to say that)
but worse is to come....is this really a game we can support i mean its just mayhem (not your fault ninj or any other admins... you know i respect you totally dude as a person and game leader)
i can't see 1 shiny pennys worth of difference betweeen this and MW3 on the servers i have played on...seriously just mayhem !
Our entire ethos seems to be castrated violently with this game yes its pretty and yes its exciting but is it dmw no.
but heres the issue i think worthy of discussion..... Just as the games move on do we have to as well ?
At this moment in time i can't think of a game (apart from counterstrike and BC2BC at a push maybe Black Ops (with dMW) ...eep) that is actually playable from our perspective.
are we just gonna be another public ? full of tards and snipers or what.
Counterstrike worked because it was team based with excellent comms and we had rules that we enforced, BF3 and MW3 are just arcade shooters with no enforcable ethos, no possible realistic way of using the squads which looks a great system in theory but in practce is major fail.
maybe i'm now a grumpy old man who needs a wee 6 times a night !! but i really would like to hear the other members views
/harry hill /fight
Can we make it work our way ??
all the above is not personal in any way (apart from the tags !) and i hope to get some input, have your say !
I think we should lower the max players limit.
64 players does just turn into a fragfest at times :(
Speaking as an Arma II player it has to be how the games are set up and played that decides how well they fit the dMw ethos. I play Arma II mainly as a fps. Arma II is co-op played against an insanely hard AI with no respawns (you have to be revived by another team member). Of course Arma and BF3 are quite different games but Arma still plays well and is well supported because it's designed to work in the dMw style. It achieves this partly through the sort of game mode we play, the maps we choose and the way we set up our servers. For BF3 (or any other fast FPS) to work the game needs to be set up with a similar goal in mind, to encourage and even demand a dMw style of game play. Clearly the specifics will depend very much on the game at hand. Arma and BF3 are different games and need different tweaks to get the best out of them, I imagine. CS worked because we set up map zones with no go areas. Without them CS would be just another run and gun game. Arma II works because we play in co-op mode and have AI set to 'unnaturally evil', plus it's an inherently very hard game to play. Out of the box BF3 may well be a game that doesn't play to the dMw style. I have no experience of this game or BF2 for that matter but I assume like our other games we need to refine it and shape it through map choices, player limits, server rules and game modes to be a tactical team based game rather than a frag fest. I'm sure people who have been playing it a lot will start to find way to mould it to our style?
With new games that we take on as pointed out there is a period of time which is different for each game where we have to find the "sweet spot" so to speak. Cod 4 bc2 were the same.
And bf3 will also take time to get there. It been out for about 2 weeks or so we need to be constructive in our points which so far we have been doing. But the main thing is patience.
:)
May opinion for what its worth.
The game is fantastic.... IF.... Its played right.
How can we achieve this on the dMw server.............
- Reduce the server to 32 man, This is a MUST.
- Split up into different TS channels and work as a squad.
- Learn how to be a squad leader in game.
- Stay with your squad leader.
4 nights now I have left the dMw server because to be honest its not a good experience at all.
3-4 of us drop into our own TS channel and play the game and work as a team. Completely different experience.
Our server can not handle 64 players... It crashes NIGHTLY when its full, and the lag is unplayable for some.
Just my opinion.
Quote from: Naldo;336835May opinion for what its worth.
The game is fantastic.... IF.... Its played right.
How can we achieve this on the dMw server.............
- Reduce the server to 32 man, This is a MUST.
- Split up into different TS channels and work as a squad.
- Learn how to be a squad leader in game.
- Stay with your squad leader.
4 nights now I have left the dMw server because to be honest its not a good experience at all.
3-4 of us drop into our own TS channel and play the game and work as a team. Completely different experience.
Our server can not handle 64 players... It crashes NIGHTLY when its full, and the lag is unplayable for some.
Just my opinion.
+1 i cant play on the server when full the server cannot handle the ammount of players and the server crashes becuase of this and when it doesnt it is unplayable (yet i join 64 - man servers from across the world and its fine no lag? its not me)
& Theres is no teamwork quite happily stay in a ts channel for "squad golf" and talk tatics and teamwork
To be honest I have not really played it much yet as finding the time is a challenge at the moment. But what I have seen of the game I think is very good, the game play, graphics and sounds are all excellent but there are a few nagging things I have found.
1) can't really comment on team play as it has been non existent what with being in a squad with other dMw players only once and only 1 person. But I would think this is a good deal better on the dMw nights.
2) I don't have much of and issue with 64 players apart from the fact I find it very hard to learn the maps as die too quickly, and my highest kill count is with an RPG of 18. However on the plus side if your having a good night in the skill department then your sure to make a truck load more points to level up based solely on the higher amounts of kills you get etc my biggest concern would be we are keeping the player count high for this reason as it is not the dMw way.
3) like Toby said the game is still very new (has the shine on it) and will take time to find it's feet. The way bc2 was handled by admins was excellent and am sure they will find the right level soon enough and our constructive comments will help them make the right choices.
4) am hating the early level sniper rifles and hope they get better as it levels up but can't kill players for toffee with them and not seen DD standing like a lemon much waiting for the bullet in the head. So can't play in character as a dirty ever hopeful sniper.
-Reducing the player limit between 32-40 will drasticly change the server and those who come to play on it.
-Rush is a great mode when played right, i find it extremely annoying when people just snipe and mortar and not even bother to try and accomplish the goal.
Do we have any control over the team squads?
It would be nice to be able to move players around, so we can form dMw squads.
When we actually manage to get 2 or 3 Deadmen in the same squad, the level of teamwork certainly goes up a few notches.
The main problem with the game is actually some of the design decisions that dice have made.
1. Mortars are stupid and should be banned. Those of you lucky enough to have your dMw tag should be ashamed to sit back and mortar spawn points and choke points on maps. I get really frustrated by this as there is no skill in it and there is no way for lower level people to fight back as they cant push up to get you through the spammed choke points. I feel so stroingly about this I will possibly talk to Ninja about it at a later date. A class that has a rapid fire weapon should not have a mortar. They got it right in BC2 with the sniper calling in an airstrike with a big delay and the rockets being spread out so even if you called it in directly on your target it was a 50-50 to if they died.
2. The choke points in the maps are really stupid. Narrow corridors that people just frag the hell out of with nades and RPG's. As there are few options to flank, and its just a killing field you find that people just hang back and try yo not get killed/ get kills rather than the impossible task of going for the objective.
3. Poor level design in spawns. In many maps you are required from your spawn to go a long distance to the objectives. Just running/swimming takes minutes sometimes. If you are sticking together and all get flanked/ die when go for an objective then you sometimes have no transport at the base as everyone jumps in on their own and speeds off and no one alive to spawn on who is close to the fight.
4. The introduction of jets and apatche on most maps instead of blackhawks has encouraged the lack of team play. There are fewer vehicles that can hold an entire squad and more single and double seater vehicles.
5. You can hold the fire button down with most guns and kill people. Before with assault for example in BF2 you had to let off short bursts, now with most guns you just hold the trigger down.
6. There is no space to move people about between squads when the server is full. Very frustrating when you want to try and get some team communication going on by having dMw'ers in same squad and you cant due to them all being full.
7. Other people hit the nail on the head about the badges. At first I agreed that badges need to be earned, but i think there needs to be a visible presence by dMw on our severs so that the public has more respect for the rules. I have tried typing to them, using in game voice, but people are still breaking the server rules, swearing at each other and generally being disrespectful on the server. As I don't have dMw next to my name the other pubs don't know that I am trying to defend the dMw ethos and rules. At least we can try to appear to be doing something to enforce behavior if we have some kind of trail tag like Fatbob suggested? Maybe those veterans over 5 years automatically get the tag in game but need to earn it on the forums?? I don't know but as a pub seeing some of the stuff going on in our sever I wouldn't think too highly of dMw and that makes me feel sad.
I agree with Fatbob that the game hasn't been designed really for teamwork its been designed for carnage, with lots of explosions for a younger market. I was hoping it would be more like BF2 was. Saying that the GFX are stunningly beautiful and its a very fun game when your not being mortared all of the time.
Quote from: DarkAngel;336854-Reducing the player limit between 32-40 will drasticly change the server and those who come to play on it.
-Rush is a great mode when played right, i find it extremely annoying when people just snipe and mortar and not even bother to try and accomplish the goal.
This
Quote from: Tutonic;336856Do we have any control over the team squads?
It would be nice to be able to move players around, so we can form dMw squads.
When we actually manage to get 2 or 3 Deadmen in the same squad, the level of teamwork certainly goes up a few notches.
and this.
I think lowering the player limit will be better for us. Less people will give some room for setting up squads and with that allow, for us at least, to play tactics. I also wouldn't mind, at least trying, to stack dMw players on one side more often. I play a game to play with my friends, not against them(even if that gives some laughs from time to time). Also I think that everyone being in the same TS channel while on seperate teams ruin some of the tactical play. Not that it's not fun and social and all that, but if we want more tactical play we need to accommodate it.
Rules is also something I miss on our servers. What do we and don't we want? Mortars, tactical lights, rpg monkeys, noob tubers? I think it's awesome that you can blow a hole through a wall with an rpg to make a path, but using launcher weapons as your primary weapon is just silly. If you want suppressive fire, bring a support player with a LMG. Also map rotations is something to look at. Removing the maps that turn out most chaotic and kill count focused. The metro station IE!
The short version? I think 64 players is too chaotic and I agree with most of the veterans here that we need to make BF3 on our server more dMw.
Guys,
As of today I have lowered the player limit to 44. Let's see how that runs.
Sorry for the brief post I'm busy at work ATM.
Quote from: Ninja_Freak;336871Guys,
As of today I have lowered the player limit to 44. Let's see how that runs.
Sorry for the brief post I'm busy at work ATM.
Nice :) Will be interesting to see how this affects gameplay. 4 hours and I'll be on ;)
I both agree and disagree when it comes to the mortars. On one hand, it's truly annoying when someone just hammers spawn with it, on the other hand, just as in real life, it's a great tool to take out an enemy stronghold or position. As a mortar man, you're completely dependent on your team for protection and targeting, unless you're one of those guys who simply aim for some tight spot and hope for the best. As for delay etc like in the BC2 mortar strike, the mortar isn't a laser rifle. You're constrained by firing arc, and the shell does take a little moment to reach it's destination. You've also got a rather slow fire rate, so if your first shell misses, the intended target has plenty of time to run away, unlike the BC2 version where you were lucky to get out. You also have to get in position, as range and traverse is limited.
It works absolutely best as an anti-sniper/camper/coward tool, as well as supporting an assault on an mcom/flag. Just a teensy bit of teamwork on the other side, and the mortar man is dead. Either from a sniper bullet, a sneaky dude with a knife, or counter-fire from another mortar. In other words, play as a team, and mortars won't be a huge problem.
Besides, it's bloody boring to just sit there lobbing nades at random points trying to get a kill. I've used the mortar a bit, and outside of a teamwork situation, it doesn't really work all that well in my opinion.
Teamplay is one thing that's really lacking on our server, and part of that is our own fault. Yes, it's more social being everyone in the same chat, but it eliminates all possibility of using comms as a tactical advantage. Since EA/Dice in their wisdom decided that voice comms should only be for party, not separate buttons for server/team/squad, it all becomes a hassle. Having to alt-tab out to change channels etc. This is solved way better in RO: Heroes of Stalingrad for instance, where in-game comms actually work.
Alternatively, you could run two separate TS connections from two different clients, place one instance of yourself in main channel and the other in team channel, then map different TS keys. Haven't really experimented with how this would work, but if it can be done easily and reliably, that would be nice.
From rumors, a lot of the major annoyances will be resolved in not-so-distant patches, like nerfing the tac-light etc. Nade/rocket/M320-spamming is something else, but from time to time, they are the best choice. If I see three guys hunched in a nook, I'm not gonna rush them with my assault rifle. I'll use some form of ranged explosive to take them all at once. This is the very reason under-barrel grenade launchers and anti-personell rocket launchers were invented. However, as Varg mentions, using it as your primary weapon for normal 1on1 instead of a tactical choice when faced with a group is extremely lame.
In order to get our server to where we want it, I think we all have work to do. With the lowered number of players it should be well within possibility to get a proper squad of dMw'ers together. Squadleaders need to take leadership, give orders etc, or the squad will just **** off to somewhere else and do individual mayhem instead. Rules need to be made clearly available somewhere, and we need a visible admin presence to enforce them. Most of all, each and every one of us has to be a team player if the opportunity is there.
But on 64-player rush-torments it's not. Glad to see that go.
One quick point re badges, tags etc. We've added several new games to the roster all of which need badges designed, uploaded and issued. That's more or less done now and we should see them being awarded in the next few days. Also while the awarding of dMw tags and the badges is decided by the Game leader the usual process is to award them to players who are not just ambassadors for dMw but who are committed to playing the relevant game consistently. The fact that I might be a committed player of one game and worthy of a Green badge does not mean I automatically get a Green badge for another game as soon as I log in to play. I have to demonstrate that I'm going to be a regular player. The GL's will need a little time to see who is going to be a regular and who is just passing by.
Quote from: smilodon;336885One quick point re badges, tags etc. We've added several new games to the roster all of which need badges designed, uploaded and issued. That's more or less done now and we should see them being awarded in the next few days. Also while the awarding of dMw tags and the badges is decided by the Game leader the usual process is to award them to players who are not just ambassadors for dMw but who are committed to playing the relevant game consistently. The fact that I might be a committed player of one game and worthy of a Green badge does not mean I automatically get a Green badge for another game as soon as I log in to play. I have to demonstrate that I'm going to be a regular player. The GL's will need a little time to see who is going to be a regular and who is just passing by.
Agree completely with this. I've played most of the games currently being played, but I don't feel entitled to badges for those games just because I have them. I've put in a lot of hours so far in BF3 and years in WoW, so I have the WoW badge and I was one of few awarded the dMw tag for BF3 before the badges were done. From what I can tell the players that put in the most hours on our server were the first to recieve them, but I'm sure the rest will come asap. It's a new game and the admins have put in a lot of work already. Let's focus on doing our part :)
Another note on the mortars while I'm at it. Maybe we could have a rule about sitting in spawn with them? So they can actually be taken out. I'm not sure on the sniping from spawn, as they would actually have to be in line of sight, and that way can easily be taken out.
I thought the rules were if you fire from spawn your fair game?
I think it's the numbers of mortars being used, rather than the mortars themselves, which is causing the issue.
More players means potentially more mortars, and combined with tight Rush choke-points makes for an irritating experience.
Cheers for changing the player limit, hopefully it'll make a difference.
Quote from: .DickDastardly.;336889I thought the rules were if you fire from spawn your fair game?
Mortars don't need direct line of sight. Which means you can hide behind stuff, and you can't actually enter the spawn area without getting killed for exiting the battle area. I do make it my mission to kill them, repeatedly, if they do use mortars in their spawn though.
I think there's some really good feedback in this thread and I just wanted you all to know that it has not gone unnoticed. Please keep proving the feedback we need to make our server a rip-roaring success.
Maybe some of the more experienced and regular players could make an effort to learn squad leader roles and try to spread out across the players.
I.e. A dMw squad leader for every squad?
At least that way we'll get orders etc, if the remaining dMw'ers follow the orders it may filter down or we may attract more public's how want to play the game properly?
Quote from: Zootoxin;336900Maybe some of the more experienced and regular players could make an effort to learn squad leader roles and try to spread out across the players.
I.e. A dMw squad leader for every squad?
At least that way we'll get orders etc, if the remaining dMw'ers follow the orders it may filter down or we may attract more public's how want to play the game properly?
It's actually not hard. You can see your squad on the bottom left of the screen. The one with the star next to his name is the leader. The leader gives attack/defend orders by aiming at an objective and hitting
Q which is the same as the
spot button. People should also learn to use the
spot button
more! If you see an enemy, hit
Q. If you're a sniper, hit
Q then fire. If you don't kill your target, someone else will know where they are and you will at least get spot/assist bonus, not to mention it helps your team out. Spotting tanks and aircraft also helps your teams pilots out a
LOT. Once we get more people with higher unlocks using SOFLAM to designate targets for the friendly vehicles will also be awesome. Recons can laser target what they need taken out, and helicopters/jets/tanks can fire guided missiles without even seeing them! Engineers can also take out aircraft with javelins if a recon laser targets them for him. Laser guided missiles can't be dodged with IR flares either.
I worship the spot button! everybody should as Vargen says. The other day I got one kill in a round but had about 30 spot bonus points.
Not the best we to get the XP but thats not really what the game is about for me.
Anyway, Lets get squading and spotting
Quote from: Vargen;336903It's actually not hard. You can see your squad on the bottom left of the screen. The one with the star next to his name is the leader. The leader gives attack/defend orders by aiming at an objective and hitting Q which is the same as the spot button. People should also learn to use the spot button more! If you see an enemy, hit Q. If you're a sniper, hit Q then fire. If you don't kill your target, someone else will know where they are and you will at least get spot/assist bonus, not to mention it helps your team out. Spotting tanks and aircraft also helps your teams pilots out a LOT. Once we get more people with higher unlocks using SOFLAM to designate targets for the friendly vehicles will also be awesome. Recons can laser target what they need taken out, and helicopters/jets/tanks can fire guided missiles without even seeing them! Engineers can also take out aircraft with javelins if a recon laser targets them for him. Laser guided missiles can't be dodged with IR flares either.
Nice one on the numbers Ninj.
For the rest,
The game is just 2 weeks out. Some enhancements will get out after a while.
I like the mortar, it can get easily taken down if you want but it's not like it keeps shooting very fast. Lob a nade in and I'm dead or give me a mortar back on the head as they easily show up on the map.
The squadleader not pressing Q on a flag for offense or defense annoys me a bit to be honoust. It's easy to do. Also good for spotting people, helicopters and planes!
It would be also easy if every player from dMw is on TS so you can actually say it to the SL.
Ahwell, liking the game. The bugs and such will be sorted out and the gamerules will be able to be setup also. Hang in there!
Can't agree more with the spotting suggestion, I always make an effort to hit Q before I open fire so that if I don't kill the enemy - hopefully he'll get lit up by my eager teammates.
If I still haven't convinced you, you get XP for doing it. There, that ought to help.
Mortars are apart of the game along with nades and rockets which becomes a bit of a fest for using them during rush i think its silly to moan about mortars when its a apart of the game a well positioned mortar can be deadly (when defending armed m-coms) i still think it is a bit of an issue with people that due it in uncaps but then again that can easily be resolved by mortaring them yourself.
I dont think mortars cause a bad opinion of the game its somthing to overcome and fight fire with fire if need be. There a good tatic provided there used right.
On our TS channels, couldn't we rename Squad 1/2 to US and Russian? would be a bit simpler to seperate ourselves then, just press tab when the game starts, see what team your on an just alt+tab and join the right ts, rather then to hold tab, then look for a familiar name in the huge list of players, then try and spot who is in what channel ;)
Also it was proper fun this evening after the server setteled a bit and we got into proper squads (about 10-11pm uk time after the horrible carrier rush), the teamplay is greatly dependent on the fact that we get atleast 3 dMw into a squad, even when both sides is on the same TS channel it works nicely. So if there is a admin tool to move people about into squads that would be awesome. Just hope the change the squad system into more like BF2 with lockable squads that the leaders could invite and kick players into/from the squad.
Also all dMw on 1 team is great fun to play, but that seems entirely dependent on the public being decent players/teamworkers, otherwise it just turns into a walkover so we have to see how it goes and balance it out if needed.
Edit: there is also a major built in flaw when it comes to us trying to balance by changing teams ourselves. If you change team, it doesn't seem to be able to change team again for a few maps..
We have two extra channels in the TS.
You can setup hot keys in TS to switch you between the channels whilst in game.
You can also set up a key to broadcast to the different channels in case you need to speak to the other team.
Quote from: Bazer_Punk;336976On our TS channels, couldn't we rename Squad 1/2 to US and Russian? would be a bit simpler to seperate ourselves then, just press tab when the game starts, see what team your on an just alt+tab and join the right ts, rather then to hold tab, then look for a familiar name in the huge list of players, then try and spot who is in what channel ;)
Also it was proper fun this evening after the server setteled a bit and we got into proper squads (about 10-11pm uk time after the horrible carrier rush), the teamplay is greatly dependent on the fact that we get atleast 3 dMw into a squad, even when both sides is on the same TS channel it works nicely. So if there is a admin tool to move people about into squads that would be awesome. Just hope the change the squad system into more like BF2 with lockable squads that the leaders could invite and kick players into/from the squad.
Also all dMw on 1 team is great fun to play, but that seems entirely dependent on the public being decent players/teamworkers, otherwise it just turns into a walkover so we have to see how it goes and balance it out if needed.
Edit: there is also a major built in flaw when it comes to us trying to balance by changing teams ourselves. If you change team, it doesn't seem to be able to change team again for a few maps..
Renaming the TS channels isn't a bad idea actually. Makes it easier. It would also be cool if we could add a couple of channels for ppl wanting to play co-op.