http://www.icy-veins.com/hagara-the-stormbinder-detailed-strategy
1 tank
2 healers
7 dps
Switch on 5 stacks of ice lance (buddy up)
Frost tombs to be dropped on boss and cleaved down
Frost Phase
Crystals - 2m HP
Debuff reducing 10% movement speed per stack
When dispelled = Ice Patch
Aspect of Pack/movement buffs etc.
Lightning Phase
healers in mid
8 nodes to be chained - assign 4 pairs to run to each corner to handle - needs mass AOE healing, damage very high
Now that we have the dps to do Yor... Yeh, you know what I will suggest: 3 healers :D
Just one thing so far about the fight:
Focused Assault: Paladin healer can taunt to easy the damage taken on this attack: Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZS2TNi6agi4
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZS2TNi6agi4)
My whole point earlier is that we kill the add at blue, you then want me to be at Green to chain to Yellow so I have to run from Blue to Green immediately anyway to do this. Hence I should always be the first chainer
Aye and we'll change what we do for the next raid, but we were trying a number of other things to get data into the logs tonight so that we can analyse. Melee will be on closest from next time, have no fear :thumbsup:
my idea is for the lightning phase. make 4 guys do the running 2 left 2 right. they will run half circle. we should have 4 guys who can heal no matter if they are in healing spec 1 healer will focus on 1 runner. same time using aoe. on the ground for the rest. the rest will be in middle offcourse. runners should be the ones whit own def cooldowns. and also use some raid cooldowns on this phase.
for the rapid attack. many videos shows that the tank just takes the hit and survives. no idea how. if we use taunt. there migth be a problem when the taunter will get iceblocked . the blue arrow on head thingy. also found out that the ice beams that stacks will raise the rapid attacks damage. no beam should never reach the tank we need faster reaction for them.
Focused Assault
We just need to continue to run away imo. We can't use Leap of Faith or other speed CDs to assist as we might need them in the Frost phase to keep people alive.
Lightning - Positioning & Healing CDs
Key to this phase is not leaving mid if you don't have to - so group in mid and dps from there unless you *have* to be in melee range - and consider moving out of chaining range just before the add dies. If we all DPS the add from mid, then and only then do we get the runners starting the conduit/chain kill of the remaining conductors. I think we need to blow AOE healing CDs at this point as the raid damage is intense.
Tranquility or similar as soon as the add is down, then my healing hymn should give us decent cover. We might also need to blow a DG or AM chain to limit the damage so that the healers have a chance to keep people up. This will give us a lot of AOE healing to cover off the tick damage and leave us to top off the people outside mid, possibly even with DPS with healing spells (shadow priests, ele shaman etc) adding to the single target healing.
The CDs needed will impact the people selected for the chains, so it is probably best not to use e.g. me as I can off-heal and use a healing hymn etc.
Lightning Conduit
This is the bit that hits you if you are actively chaining and amounts to 20-25k dps to each person being chained *in addition* to the normal AOE.
Amount>0 and spell="Lightning Conduit"Clearly we need to minimise the number of people being this i.e. having as few people by the add as possible at the point it dies. Changing our positions as above to the default being middle instead of by the add will help massively.
Checking the logs seems to show that pets also appear to be capable of being hit *and* hitting (i.e. chaining the charge to other people), so it might be worth pulling pets out for when the add dies or it just adds to the charge damage taken.
As a logical follow on, it might be worth pre-positioning some pets to act as part of the conduit chain, so for example we might place them as the second part in the chain so that a melee person chains to the pet which then chains to the first conductor etc. We'll still need a 2nd person for the later conductors.
.....still thinking about the rest of the encounter, in particular Ice Lance. Will post more when I've thought it through properly!
I been doing abit of reading on mmo and some other forum's and everywhere it says that the "eaziest" order to do DS HC10 is this:
10 man is:
Morchok < Yor'sahj = Ultraxion < Hagara = Zon'ozz (depending on raid comp) < Gunship < Madness =< Spine
Ultraxion may be easier than Yor'sahj depending on your healers. Yor'sahj with a Holy paladin and Resto shaman is a lot different than say Yor'sahj with a Priest and a Resto Druid.
Im really looking forward to the next evening on hagara when we have a good and working tactic but im pretty sure that the ultraxion fight is going to be alot eazier for us :).
Our intention is already to focus on Ultraxion this week as we said on TS last night, but we were late enough to Hagara to make it not worth moving to Ultraxion late last night. We wanted to experience HC Hagara this reset though, so nothing is wasted.
I'm guessing that it was lightning conduit that was nailing us during lightning phase....the damage was unhealable as far as i could so......so many people all at once but also many people oddly spread before they needed to. if we can control this more and only the chaining people are taking the debuff then i'm thinking it might be a LOT better.
As for tanking the boss with focused assault 5 seconds every 15........a distracting taunt from anyone capable of doing it during focused assault seems to me the best way by a mile......the healing required again was crazy and beyond what 2 healers can definitely deliver guaranteed for 1/3 of the time that the boss is tankable.
So ( like most fights ) we need to learn the ways of controlling the damage we take and then focus on dps on boss.
As we didn't see any iceblocks impossible to comment on the complications this might cause - but with 2 healers i think that 1 healer cubed could well be a wipe every time.
I'm tempted to suggest upping the healing required to 3 just whilst we stabilise it....then drop to 2 if the dps requirements make it so.......but we would all be well practiced at surviving the bosses abilities i would hope by then.
Cheers
Niel
As for the taunt: My dps drops to pretty much neglectable if I need to taunt the boss (from a distance). I'm thinking the only viable option would be a healadin doing it, or possibly a druid popping into bear and back out. Although I assume that latter is quite mana consuming.
Alternatively, I could try only taunting the last few seconds off, so me and tank share the damage, but it's risky as that damage *will* twoshot me.
The intention of the taunt is not for the taunted person to take any damage........but to just kill as much of the 5 secs as possible with the boss travelling with the tank taunting the boss back before she does any serious damage to the person dragging her away. ....so ideally both taunts done from max range.......a Healadin would be perfect as it would not distract from dps.
From what we saw on Sunday - for those 5 seconds she is doing 50K per 1/2 second to her current target if in range......500K per 5 seconds and repeating when live after a 10 second break............we need to find a way of making most of that damage go nowhere.
the boss has 52M hp we can burn that down in 4mins. i dont think the dps is the most important thing in this encounter. we could try to use 2 tanks for the rapid attack. 1 paladin should be able to survive 2 rapid attacks whit guardian of ancient queens -50% 3min cooldown. and combined use of divene prot -20% 1min cooldown and ardent def -20% 2min cooldown. so if we counted is rigth its 3 rapid attacks per phase then i think the cooldowns will be done before next phase starts.
i dont know what raid you were in but 52mil in 4 min? :P
4 minutes of active time on the boss... Consider Yor'sahj has 80something million HP and we do that in 10 minutes, of which we spend maybe 2 minutes on ooze killing. We also have 1 more DPS on this one. It'll be tight, but it adds up :P
hagara is not hitteble for 50% of the time as well :P
Aye but the enrage is longer than 4 minutes :P
hagaras enrage timer on hardmode is 10mins and 8min on normal. hp 52m i migth be wrong as usual but dont think the dps is a problem in this encounter.
RGT will be looking at this fight this week, so make sure you are up to speed for it please!
this boss whit the 5% nerf should have 49,6M hp which is less than normal mode ultraxion and we killed him in 3m 38s. so less than 4min active time on boss and hes dead. enrage timer is 10m. so we have 6m to do the rest.
electricity phase is heavy healing my opinion everyone who can heal will stack in middle and heal. 4 runners whit def cooldowns 2 left and right.
ice phase. those evil ice blocks got more health than wotlk raid bosses. about 10m combined health. no idea what to whit them. most videos shows that peeps are nuking them down one by one. they go in middle when ever an icewall is nearby then back to nuking the ice.
i would say we need 3 healers on this one. and tessy to taunt the boss in rapid attack thingy.
Bump for Tuesday night, we'll be learning this fight before clearing the rest of the instance.
Quote from: microid;344845this boss whit the 5% nerf should have 49,6M hp which is less than normal mode ultraxion and we killed him in 3m 38s. so less than 4min active time on boss and hes dead. enrage timer is 10m. so we have 6m to do the rest.
electricity phase is heavy healing my opinion everyone who can heal will stack in middle and heal. 4 runners whit def cooldowns 2 left and right.
ice phase. those evil ice blocks got more health than wotlk raid bosses. about 10m combined health. no idea what to whit them. most videos shows that peeps are nuking them down one by one. they go in middle when ever an icewall is nearby then back to nuking the ice.
i would say we need 3 healers on this one. and tessy to taunt the boss in rapid attack thingy.
Only problem with that though is with people with dots/bleeds having to re-apply them every time she comes out of one of the phases so the DPS won't be as constant as Ultraxion.
http://www.tankspot.com/showthread.php?78760-Heroic-10-man-Hagara-the-Stormbinder
Thread notes that you can dispell inside the bubble to avoid the ice patches. The theory being that healing up one person is easier than having to heal up the whole raid due to AOE!
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1066788-Heroic-Hagara-10-Man-Issues
"Pets can chain so if you have pet classes they can take up people's spots and have more sitting middle, not taking any damage. "
Nature resistance is important!! Check range!
Off-specs can assist on healing during lighting phase
Aim for 10 seconds max in Lightning phase
Quote from: TeaLeaf;344868[B"Pets can chain so if you have pet classes they can take up people's spots and have more sitting middle, not taking any damage. "[/B]
Damn it, does this mean I have to actually do something this fight :P
Nice to know you're admitting to being my pet then :-D
I've also seen video's where they're using 4 people to chain the whole thing (2 left, 2 right), rather than using 2 people for each quarter (8 in total). But not sure if we'll manage healing wise.
well we can try with the pet, me and Jes both on a side and ill take torg and Jes takes whitey ( so thats 6 inc pets :P )
QuoteTo determine whether you will get an Ice Phase or a Lightning Phase first, simply look at the visual effect on Hagara's weapon before the pull (it will either be a frost effect or a lightning effect).
You learn something every day!
QuoteGrounding Totem is not consumed by Ice Lance but it is consumed by Shattered Ice. So it may be a good idea to have a Shaman in the same group as the tank or the melee DPS designated to take damage from Shattered Ice, and let this Shaman drop Grounding Totem as soon as Ice Lance begins.
More goodness.
Ill try to make some http://www.wowhead.com/item=29530 (http://www.wowhead.com/item=29530) tonight. Should help us out at the electric phase.
Really solid progress on this boss last night, Sunday we'll be fine tuning and going for the kill.
Standing Rule:
We run clockwise from the portal on all phases and with all targets.
Phase 1 - Shattered Ice
Good job to Miicroid and Puja for the regular use of grounding totems use here. It saves a shed load of damage. Shattered Ice is always cast either right before or right after Focused Assault and it does 80,000 damage, so a Lance soaker with 4 stacks will take 160,000 damage if this is not caught.
Phase 1 - Ice Lance
Buddy system worked well, but we need to watch for lances spawning close to boss on pull when we tank boss at edge.
Note:
-when a pair take turns soaking, do not stand next to each other, any splash damage from the lance hitting your partner (the soaker) and you will refresh your debuff and not allow you to let your stack expire. Make sure one is maybe 5 yards closer to boss, then other can either run in to soak, or sideways out to avoid, the closer one does not have to move at all.
Phase 1 - Ice Blocks
Generally we handled Ice Blocks well, but we need to make sure they are dropped absolutely right.
-Healers note: ice blocks can cause LOS issues, so make sure you get LOS on the tank!!
-perhaps pre-set for blocks to one side of boss, then healers either behind or to other side?
Phase 2 - Lightning:
ALL ranged & healers to middle as we enter lightning phase
Non-runners leave and head to middle when add is at 35% to avoid getting chained
Note: People in middle, watch for circles on floor - GET OUT of them!!
Chain Gangs:
Torgen & Leggs handle all of the left 1/2 circle using self-speed buffs
Right side: MT + 1 handle first 1/4; then 2 ranged run out to handle last 1/8th (final 1/8th was done by Torgen/Leggs completing their 1/2)
Phase 2 - Frost
All killed first pylon
Tank, 2 healers and melee dps all run around
Ranged DPS plus a healer remain at Pylon 2 until it is dead, then kill Pylon 3, then Pylon 4 etc.
-ranged avoid ice walls by taking ONE step into bubble then out again when wall has passed
ALL dispells are done when player steps into the bubble to avoid spreading slowing patches
Phase 1 - Re-entry
We need to tighten up on where we regroup so that we have ranged & healers not too far away from the boss and properly spread around. We wiped on our first good entry into P1 after a lighting phase by not be able to properly soak the lances due to poor positioning.
Lesson: Pre-set soak positions and return to them!
That's it, we basically did all parts of the fight last night and got pretty solid tactics on each of them. We just need to string them together into single pull to get to enrage. The only remaining question will then be whether or not we need to drop to 2 healers, but I am hoping that we'll get the kill with 3.
Phase 2 - Lightning:
ALL ranged & healers to middle as we enter lightning phase
Non-runners leave and head to middle when add is at 35% to avoid getting chained
Note: People in middle, watch for circles on floor - GET OUT of them!!
Chain Gangs:
Torgen & Leggs handle all of the left 1/2 circle using self-speed buffs
Right side: MT + 1 handle first 1/4; then 2 ranged run out to handle last 1/8th (final 1/8th was done by Torgen/Leggs completing their 1/2)
I was expecting massive deaths in this phase. This did not happen. Correct use of single target heals on runners makes this eazy.
During the ice phase (4 pillars ) i don't know about the other melee but i was able to do more damage following the same tactic as the range, where i would just run around the wall every time it came around, it only took a couple of seconds if timed right.
For me personally it meant i could keep my combo points and also keep up poison stacks aswell as having more uptime - So for at least me i would also like to stay with the ranged group that picks each pillar off one at a time.
Quote from: Leggs;345284During the ice phase (4 pillars ) i don't know about the other melee but i was able to do more damage following the same tactic as the range, where i would just run around the wall every time it came around, it only took a couple of seconds if timed right.
For me personally it meant i could keep my combo points and also keep up poison stacks aswell as having more uptime - So for at least me i would also like to stay with the ranged group that picks each pillar off one at a time.
I thought of this too. Why exactly should melee run around if we can make the whole ordeal a lot faster by doing the same as ranged? :-)
I think it doable to split into smaller groups of 3-3-4 with a healer each and take a pillar each and dance around the ice walls as they come around......so maybe nuke 1 down then drop 3 at the next ....3 the one after and 4 at the last.
As a healer i found it a little tricky timing heals with the dance around the ice walls....but practice makes perfect and certainly doable.
Assigned groups to posts would also make the positioning required for all groups obvious and none of the silly out of range issue that i had last night a couple of times.
Quote from: Niel;345311I think it doable to split into smaller groups of 3-3-4 with a healer each and take a pillar each and dance around the ice walls as they come around......so maybe nuke 1 down then drop 3 at the next ....3 the one after and 4 at the last.
As a healer i found it a little tricky timing heals with the dance around the ice walls....but practice makes perfect and certainly doable.
Assigned groups to posts would also make the positioning required for all groups obvious and none of the silly out of range issue that i had last night a couple of times.
Or split into 2 and do 2 each :-)
Frost phase
Officer discussion last night thought that a solution to the clockwise group's troubles might be to see if we can split into 3 groups instead of just 2. This might reduce the volume of mis-dispells and stuff on the floor. (With 3 healers, 3 groups seems more logical than 4 groups)
Group 1 & Group 2 DPS pylon 1.
At 35% on Pylon 1, Group 2 head off clockwise to Pylon 3 and kill it.
When Pylon 1 dead, Group 1 head clockwise to Pylon 2 and kill it.
Group 3 head anti-clockwise to Pylon 4 and kill it, then help finish Pylon 3.
Group 1: MT, melee plus a healer (4 people total)
Group 2: Ranged DPS plus a healer (3 people total)
Group 3: Ranged DPS plus a healer (3 people total)
Lightning Phase
We struggled to chain properly last night. Proposal is to keep using 2 melee for the clockwise 50% (usually Torgen/Leggs) and then MT + 1 to do the remaining anticlockwise chains. The hope is ot simplify healing by reducing the number of people possibly chaining in or out.
Lance Soaking Mechanic
We had some misunderstanding of this mechanic which killed people regularly last night. Please remember, in order to let your debuff stack tick off and reset, you cannot be within 3 yards of anyone else who is soaking. Each time someone soaks a lance there is an AOE splash damage area which if it hits you refreshes your debuff stack and adds to the stack you have, so we need to make sure soakers are properly spread and not stacked on top of each other! This is why at the start of last night we talked about having a static 'forward' soaker and a mobile soaker at least 5 yards behind the static soaker.
Errors
Logs look nasty with way too many avoidable deaths. If we're to progress at all on this fight we *have* to be able to avoid these simple errors.
Seeing TL said he did not have the time to check logs etc this week i thought i would make a little break down. If i have abit more time later on today ill add more data but im going into a meeting in 12 min :P
Try 1 lasted 2:00: ( Healers died on Ice Wave)
Amber killed by Ice Wave â€" 121960 damage
Jas killed by Ice Wave â€" 115163 damage
Rest died from no healing on big group.
Try 2 lasted 1:09 ( Tank died from Focused Assault )
Halbarad died from focused assault ( 3 hits 40k each )
Try 3 lasted 1:09 ( people died from lightning conduit)
Jesung died from lightning conduit
Hubbah died from lightning conduit
Etc etc
Try 4 lasted 1:01 ( Tank died from Focused Assault )
Halbarad died from Focused Assault ( 3 hits between 46k and 30k )
Try 5 lasted 1:15 ( people died from LC )
Jesung died from lightning conduit
Leggs died from lightning conduit
Etc etc
Try 6 lasted 2:40 ( Tank died from Focused Assault )
Incendia died from Lightning conduit
Halbarad died from Focused Assault.
Try 7 Lasted 1:19 ( Healer died on Ice Lance )
Puja died from Ice Lance / shattered Ice
Try 8 lasted 2:33 ( healers died from Ice Wave )
Jas died from Ice Wave
Amber died from Ice Wave
Rest died from lack of healing in big group
Try 9 lasted 2:40 ( People died from Icewave )
Jesung died from Ice wave ( 108k hit )
Halbarad died from Ice wave ( 49k hit )
Jas died from Ice wave ( 126k hit )
Try 10 lasted 2:45 ( Tank died from Focused assault, ressed and people dieing on Icewave )
Halbarad died from Focused Assault ( 3 hits 40k each )
Tank got ressed and then:
Leggs died from Icewave
Amber died from Icewave
Incendia died from Ice wave
Halbarad died from Focused assault
Try 11 lasted 3:15 ( tank died on focused assault )
Halbarad died on focused assault ( 45k, 39k and 23k with 20k overkill )
Try 12 lasted 1:12 ( people died from Lightning conduit )
Hubbah died from Lightning conduit
Teaell died from lightning conduit
Incendia died from lightning conduit
Try 13 lasted 1:14 ( people died from lightning conduit )
Incendia died from lightning conduit
Hubbah died from lightning conduit
Halbarad died from lightning conduit
Try 14 lasted 3:10 ( healer dieding from Icewave & tank from focused assault )
Amber died from Ice wave ( 73k hit )
Microid died from icewave ( 88k hit )
Jesung died from icewave ( 12k hit )
Halbarad died from Focused Assault ( 3 hits 40k, 51k and 21k )
Try 15 lasted 2:20 ( weird wipe )
Jesung dies from Ice Lance & ressed
Jesing died from lightning conduit
Amber died from Ice lance
Halbarad died from Focused Assault
Try 16 lasted 2:20 ( healers died from Ice Wave )
Puja died from Icewave ( 27k hit )
Amber died from Ice Wave ( 33k hit )
Try 17 lasted 3:14 ( healer died on Ice Wave and tank on focused assault )
Puja died on Ice Wave ( 140k hit )
Halbarad died on focused assault ( 35k hit 3 times )
Try 18 lasted 4:37 ( people dieing on Ice Lance )
Jesung died from Ice Lance & shatterd Ice
Puja died from Ice Lance
Try 19 lasted 2:14 ( tank died from focused assault )
Halbarad died from focused assault ( 40k hit 3 times )
Try 20 lasted 1:08 (People dieing from Lightning conduit)
Teaell died from Lightning conduit
Incendia died from Lightning conduit
Leggs died from Lightning conduit
Try 21 lasted 2:00 ( people diing from Ice lance / shatterd ice and healer on Icewave )
Micro died from ice lance
Jesung died from icelance
Puja died from Ice wave
Rest from lack of healing ( watery entranchment )
Try 22 3:49 ( Dieing from Icelance )
Jesung died from Icelance / Shattered ice
Hubbah died from Ice Lance
Teaell died from Ice Lance
Try 23 2:26 ( healers dieing from Watery entrenchment & Ice wave )
Jas died from Watery Entrenchment
Incendia died from Watery Entrenchment
Amber died from Ice Wave
As you can see all of these wipes could be avoided if people were abit quicker on there feet.
Not sure how the lightning conduit wipes were caused but im guessing lack of healing ( out of range?, Stacks to high?, dont know so if anyone does please post here :) )
And 1 more think the DPS is on the lowish side atm, if this goes up the forst / electric phase will go alot smoother ( if we kill the add quicker less debuff stacks / quicker on the frost things less time to get caught by a wave .. etc )
Well where I personally failed several times was with the Ice lances. I was standing to close to Puja and taking his stacks also then Shattered Ice was hitting me for obscene amounts.
Also mentioned about the lightning phase is that Hal was dragging the lightning into the group in the middle after we had completed our side thus making the healers job harder as the middle group is taking unnecessary damage and it also messed up Teaell's an Incendia's job of connecting the conduits.
Ice Wave -> 9 total wipes
Players hit
amber 5
jas 2
hal 1
leggs 1
incendia 1
jes 1
micro 1
puja 3
Focused assault -> 6 total wipes - most of these were earlier attempts
Ice lance -> 5 total wipes
4 of these were Jes who has said he was standing too close
lightning conduit -> 5
if I remember right only 1 of these was me and Hubbah failing to make it round
NOTE: there was overlaps which explains more wipes than attempts. These figures are probably not 100% correct ( i haven't checked ) but should give a rough show
I really hope people have checked out the data ( i know it aint as flashy as TL always puts it up, but seeing i dont have all the time in the world at work atm this was the best i could do for now :P ).
And Leggs made a nice overview that contains all data as well!
I think the kill for this is within our reach if we just focus up and move from stuff that kills us :) Or at least we can get to a stage where the boss enrages :P
If you havent checked it out please scroll down and see what error's you made that could have been avoided ( if you made any ofcourse ) and see where we can aprove!
Hope to see you all tonight, i have to get back to work!
/High Five
Hub
Im scrolling abit trew the logs and all the deaths we had last night are the same stuff we had 3 nights ago.
People getting hit by icewaves, dieing from lightning conduit's, getting killed by icelances, etc etc.
There was some progress tho, we did have a few longer try's, but we never got to the a 2nd 2nd phase without a death.
I know i got killed by an icewave once and the reason for this is me just trying to cut it to close.
There is still alot of room for improvement tho..
Editing of the video is now finished and rendering of the mp4 now started. It should be complete and uploaded to Youtube by lunchtime, so look out for the link shortly!
cant wait :)
Quote from: hubbah;345974cant wait :)
You get to see my abysmal 19k DPS :P I love the fight I just can't seem to get the numbers on it :(
@jes, nothing new there!!!
gz on the kill guys!
Any news on what happend last night and how we can avoid it for Sunday? :)
From my point of view (logs would have to confirm/deny), it was mostly down to personal errors again. I think Lightning Phase/Soak phase went pretty well, but we keep losing people on Ice phases.
- Don't clip Ice walls. The damage from the bubble is not immediatly fatal, so there's little reason to not be safe with the walls. Of course don't exaggerate either.
- Call a dispell only once you're inside the bubble, and only go out when it's gone. We had a couple of Ice patches because folks called too early or went back out too soon.
- Don't try to Heroic Leap through the Ice Wall. There's little gain, it only works half of the time and you're not Evil Kenievel and never will be, you silly dog.
Quote from: hubbah;346329Any news on what happend last night and how we can avoid it for Sunday? :)
I think one of the other officers has logs from Hagara, I've uploaded the first 3 boss logs.
From what I heard on TS it was mainly personal errors or blocks being not quite placed correctly and causing LOS issues (bar one try when 2 healers got blocked which led to a focused assault tank death).
Quote from: TeaLeaf;346343From what I heard on TS it was mainly personal errors or blocks being not quite placed correctly and causing LOS issues (bar one try when 2 healers got blocked which led to a focused assault tank death).
I'll gladly admit that Ice Phase is causing big issues for me. Here's some explanation.
What I do:-I fixed done some fixing to my bars (prior to thursdays raid) to make my fast heals more available.
-I took Tessy's advice on Thursday with moving.. and it helped slightly; fewer deaths after.
-Im poppin my SG to be able to run while casting. (Only lasts 20 seconds).
-Insta Ghost Wolf Form helps now and then to get in/out of Watery Area.
-Im using my gift of the Naaru on either one of my dps'ers or myself. (HoT).
-Im trying to keep Riptide (hot) up on me and my 2 dps'ers.
-Im using both fast, low efficency heals(HS) and slow ones (GHW) depending on next Ice Wall.
-Earth Shield on one in my Pylon group.
What the problem is:The problem for me is... Doing dispells before debuffed person reaches 6 stacks. This usually interrupts a GHW which might be crucial. I then have to run in to avoid Ice Wave. When Im inside I see that Hubbah is on i.e. 25 %. This means I have to heal him... and myself before I run out. But the problem is that I will then have to stay in for too long just to avoid the next Ice Wave. This heal-interrupting and in/out'ing slowly eats us until one dies. I cant believe how incredible long this phase is. It just feels like it never ends :sad:
What can be done?I would ofcourse hope for a different strategy (there are 2 other mentioned in Ice Veins guide), as this is not working for me at all.
If anyone got any other advice in addition to the list mention above... feel free to share, because I really feel I need a "lucky" try with few dispells + few "Icicles" in Ice Phases to keep our little Pylon group up.
I feel I'm lacking the utility as a resto shaman to do this phase the way we currently are... and thats the first time I've had that feeling in 4.x. With that in mind; I am working on this and will win... Its just a matter of time.
Quote from: Slush;346361I'll gladly admit that Ice Phase is causing big issues for me. Here's some explanation.
What I do:
-I fixed done some fixing to my bars (prior to thursdays raid) to make my fast heals more available.
-I took Tessy's advice on Thursday with moving.. and it helped slightly; fewer deaths after.
-Im poppin my SG to be able to run while casting. (Only lasts 20 seconds).
-Insta Ghost Wolf Form helps now and then to get in/out of Watery Area.
-Im using my gift of the Naaru on either one of my dps'ers or myself. (HoT).
-Im trying to keep Riptide (hot) up on me and my 2 dps'ers.
-Im using both fast, low efficency heals(HS) and slow ones (GHW) depending on next Ice Wall.
-Earth Shield on one in my Pylon group.
What the problem is:
The problem for me is... Doing dispells before debuffed person reaches 6 stacks. This usually interrupts a GHW which might be crucial. I then have to run in to avoid Ice Wave. When Im inside I see that Hubbah is on i.e. 25 %. This means I have to heal him... and myself before I run out. But the problem is that I will then have to stay in for too long just to avoid the next Ice Wave. This heal-interrupting and in/out'ing slowly eats us until one dies. I cant believe how incredible long this phase is. It just feels like it never ends :sad:
What can be done?
I would ofcourse hope for a different strategy (there are 2 other mentioned in Ice Veins guide), as this is not working for me at all.
If anyone got any other advice in addition to the list mention above... feel free to share, because I really feel I need a "lucky" try with few dispells + few "Icicles" in Ice Phases to keep our little Pylon group up.
I feel I'm lacking the utility as a resto shaman to do this phase the way we currently are... and thats the first time I've had that feeling in 4.x. With that in mind; I am working on this and will win... Its just a matter of time.
If i were you i would consult with Puja since he was in healing for our kill. Im sure he has some tricks up his sleeve... :-)
Quote from: Siffredi;346362If i were you i would consult with Puja since he was in healing for our kill. Im sure he has some tricks up his sleeve... :-)
30 mins before end-raid on thursday I asked to be swapped out for Puja, but RL told me he had the similar problems. Last sundays kill I suspect Puja had The selfdispelling-dispersion-using TL aswell. But yeh, gold call: Puuuuuuja? Ant tips?
Im also having problems with healing the ice phase and I have a lot more (on the run) spells... Same issue slush getting in that big heal when needed feels almost impossible.
Any tips i can give is that i move ahead of the others so i follow the ice wave a bit around, so i get more standing still time.
Else i use my instant heals and heal cooldowns to keep them up. No doubt Ice phase is the most difficult of the phases.
For me i almost only ever use riptide hastened GHW - throw in a Gift of the Naaru and a Spiritwalkers grace ( i try to hold on to that as long as possible before using it as it gets you out of any emergency as it is just so OP for Ice phase healing ). The riptide i cycle around and try to keep as much uptime on everyone as possible.
I do avoid the smaller heals generally as the casting time > benefit ratio is not great and the issue in ice phase is always that dependant on what crap is on the ground your casting time gets eaten into due to constant movement - so i pretty much stick to the biggest bang per sec heals due to the limited casting time avail.
When i've done it i have of course had TL who could dispell - not that it stopped me dispelling him and it is not an issue to do the dispells.
Apart from a couple of cockups ( clipping walls when runnign around them ) the ice phase has never stressed me that much.
When running around walls - i do try to run into bubble and when running back out i try to run in the direction of the wall that just passed me and not towards the wall that is coming next.......doing a J type run gives you time that is valuable back.
For RGW:
Read this thread, there's a hell of a lot of development work in here to help you understand the problems RGT faced and the solutions found. Then watch the RGT kill video, which has a lot of tactical info in it which should be a great help. Then ask questions about things which are still not clear please!
My idea about initial positioning: Why not have the tank (me) stand behind the blue marker at due north? That way the melee is placed perfectly for the lightning phase and everyone is on the split line for the ice phase.
Did RGT try this and if so how did it turn out?
I dont think we tried it, but the positioning at the start should not really matter. as long as your on the side with the rest curled around the tank to soak lances :)
It was more a visibility issue, it's clearer to look at without a marker, so RGT stand just to the side of the blue marker to be in 'clear air', not as far around as you were on some tries. As Hubbah said though, slightly left or right does not matter too much due to the fact that whichever phase is next you have time to move to it before the pylons/add/phase become active.
Keep in mind that by being clockwise of Blue at the pull, you are almost next to the Lightning add when it spawns, and very close to the clockwise Frost pylon when it spawns
AND
The anticlockwise frost phase group will be closer to their anticlockwise pylon in the frost phase, i.e. the raid does not have to group up to then split, you are already split by the initial positioning which suits the frost phase, and doesn't matter on the lightning phase. (keep in mind that the anticlockwise group should be made up of the lefthand soak pair and the healer from the mid soak pair, thus all 3 are on the correct side and closest to their anticlockwise pylon at the start.
lol finally got where TL's avatar is from :narnar:
And agree, don't think it matters that much where we pull the boss at the start..
Think the lightning phase went pretty good. It's pretty hard for the healers, I think everyone in the middle needs to get out that white circle thingy asap to avoid extra incoming damage.
Ice phase, think ppl we're running the good direction near the end but just need some more practice on movement etc. Remember surviving is pretty important :p
also:
Quotekeep in mind that the anticlockwise group should be made up of the lefthand soak pair and the healer from the mid soak pair
so me & yaril left of the boss near blue marker, moon with hermi in the middle & sithy/hendrik (or was it lynx?) on the right side near green.
If the groups were sorted into two groups of 5 I could do more healing.
what side would get 2 healers and what side would get 1? :P
Quote from: Jewelz^;351446If the groups were sorted into two groups of 5 I could do more healing.
Actually it's difficult to do that with the single dispells, so what you find is that you are limited as to the number of targets you can heal in most cases. Plus as Hubbah said, it's difficult to divide 3 healers into 2!
Would it be an idea to have Pals stay in the middle with the non-runners during the lightning phase to help out with the healing from there?
Not really as pals is dps :P and a runner
But she still has healing spells, right? I think I remember hearing TL say on his video that people with healing spells would stay in the middle to help out, with runners being people without heals... Maybe I misheard though.. How do you find healing in the middle as it stands?
Currently not to bad if people stick to their assigned targets.
We have to dps the lightning add down...so if we have pals in the range healer camp we have 1 less dps on the add...and then she will have to run out to then start the connections needed to overlaod the orbs.
Thats why melee (nims pals tank) and 1 ranged go pew pew.
I lookafter the aoe heals with help from sith with a tranq,lynxs has 2 peeps to heal and hend had 2 to heal but there were heals going all over the place.
*edit* tls comment i believe that if you are in the ranged/heal camp if you can heal then heal...
More than anything the problems we had with this fight was people actually knowing where to go....grps were called. u run here u run there,,.... We had about 5 people running in the places they were supposed to. aslo as they werent with "their" grp dispells were going all over the place and so alot of slowing debuffs.
Alot of work on this 1.
If there's a choice of runners, then leaving Pals in the middle to blow a tranquility is helpful during the lightning phase, particular at the end as the stacks get high. It all depends if you have a choice of runners. We use tank+warlock (soul link) on one side, then warrior/rogue/hunter on the other. None of those have healing spells, so everyone else can twiddle their thumbs and do healing in the middle.
You mimimise damage at the start of the lightning phase by having any non-runner being well away from the add as it dies so they do not immediately get chained. RGT's healers & non-runners all go to mid at the start of the lightning phase and any melee non-runners leave well before the add dies (ranged finish him off).
Quote from: TeaLeaf;351699If there's a choice of runners, then leaving Pals in the middle to blow a tranquility is helpful during the lightning phase, particular at the end as the stacks get high.
the only healing spell I have that is good for anything is tranquility and its a long CD on it..
the other healing spells as cat is for no use at all
RGW had a nice few tries today on this boss, and i have to say to a nice job well done for the progress made.
Hardest part is still the frost phase, healers really don't have it easy on this one, healing, disspelling and moving all at the same time...
So big respect to you guys!!!
With that said: The movement during the frost phase is thing where i think we need to improve the most, and the healers keep to their group for disspelling ;)
As we noticed that some times a few of us got disspelled to early without having called out for a disspell and that made the movement quite hard.
For the rest the lightning phase was awesome and well worked out, i have to say thumbs up to Cynba for a nice run, with us two doing most of the time 75% of the field :flirty:
If we can survive 2 frost phases the fight will then be ours so keep up the good work and next week a new hc boss down for RGW :devil:
Have to agree with Grim on this...we had quite a few good tries at this.
When we were trying before we would get through the lightning phase with 4-5 dead...now that phase is no problem.
Frost phase. :ranting2: Im struggling with it as you could of guessed.
3 grps and i had the biggest grp of 4,just that 1 extra is hard....My UI is crap as im waiting for a new lappy from sony. Still its bloody hard trying to move in and out dodge ice walls dispell and heal 4 people.
So i dont apprieciate comments about my movement from people who just have 2 things to do. All i can say is try my job. Also its a learnig curve but we had dispells going early and to not peoples grps,which then ending up killing others. For example Odd dispelled grim outside,a slow patch went down then i got frostflake which slows me even more...I get hit by ice wall and die. Then moaned at for my movement.
Many people made mistake tonight but i actually felt quite pointed out. Which then frustrated me imensely,and i have a short temper. I'm sorry for that.
BUT! OMG Hermi!!!! Tonight i heard you on ts more than ive heard you in the whole time ive raided with you.!...this is great! i know you may not chat but your calls were great....please keep it up. Would rather a yes/no /dispell, than nothing and thats what we will need for these last few HC modes. Your dps has improved,movement and now talking. Seriously you dont know how happy that makes me. :)
Overall really happy with tonight and once we just get used to it we will be fine.
Just want it to be a full RGW grp for the 1st kill. No offence to the chaps who keep helping us out and a big shout goes to you. Thanks TL,Jas,Whytee,Hal. Without you 4 alot of nights couldnt of happened and it was great to have you in tonight TL with your knowlegde and expertise and thx Jas for our repair fund :P (and your skills)
Looking forward to Monday.
Nice progress idd, tnx again to TL & Jas for joining & pointing out some stuff/giving tips etc.. Lightning phase goes pretty decent, ice phase still needs some improvement but have to agree with Switch, would hate it to heal myself tbh :p
Looking forward to monday, am also wondering how warmaster will go now with another nerf. Though don't know what the plan will be :)
And yea, was nice to hear some more voices on ts! :yahoo:
I wanna thank the guys who helped out last night too, i think your help is more then apriciated :D
I also wanna apologize for my dumb mistakes, was kinda stressed out for this fight because like Switch said, move around, disspell and heal.. This is the hardest fight for me to ever heal
But I saw that we made some progress in frost phase, so to everyone GJ ;D
Quote from: Oddbal;354949I wanna thank the guys who helped out last night too, i think your help is more then apriciated :D
I also wanna apologize for my dumb mistakes, was kinda stressed out for this fight because like Switch said, move around, disspell and heal.. This is the hardest fight for me to ever heal
But I saw that we made some progress in frost phase, so to everyone GJ ;D
Have a chat with Niel ( puja ) or slush, they healed that fight a million times and seem to finally do ok now :P
My role healing this fight is always as part of the anti-clockwise group......not so different than the CW group but the time avail is a little shorter as you are running against the flow of the walls.
Dispelling - Healers have to be really strict about this, especially while you are still learning it.......only ever dispell your own people, and only do it with a call from the person......if they don't call then they don't get dispelled and die.....simples.......that way you will never ever end up with frost patches on the outside.........frost patches on the outer ring means someone dispelled that should nto have or someone called when they shouldn't have....in both cases that needs to be dealt with and stopped. The strictness of dispelling tends to get eased once you have this kill and everyone is used to it.....but until you have it as a regular kill you have to stay strict ( i would say the rules only wander when you have it on farm as you actually find that you have spare time to throw heals/dispells on people that are not part of your group )....for my own group i keep an eye on them anyway and dispell as soon as i can see them safely inside the bubble so i don't necesarily need the call.
Big white circles - to be honest....learnt to live with them.....it does not matter how many of them there are you need to find a tactic that works for you to deal with them. For myself on a shammy i save spiritwalkers grace for the "oh $%&£" moments when there are debuffs to deal with, ice wall incoming and multiple big round circles where i am or need to get to.
Ice walls - i try to run a "J" track for ice walls......dance into the bubble and as i run back to the outer ring actually turn and almost chase the wall that just passed.......that means that as soon as i stop i have almost a whole quarter of the outer ring in which to cast heals...............if you don't do this and run in past the wall then back to outer without a turn you probably find you have only half the time to cast heals before the next wall.............this manouvering around ice walls is where you will find the most spare time that helps you get more heals/dispells out - always manouvere around the wall to leave yourself the most time for casting once stopped.
Above all as a healer.....don't panic......find a rhythmn that does the job and keep it rolling - if your people that you are healing do their thing right then you find that the healing on them becomes almost repetetive as they take a constant pattern of damage..........finding you can't get a rhythmn healing them because the damage is really spikey on one or more means you need to slap the offenders upside the head and get them to stop standing in £$%&. Again i can only speak for myself.....but i expect to get at least 2 x Riptide and 2 x GHW out between each ice wall ( i only ever use GHW on ice phase as i want the most bang per buck heal goign out...no point sending out little tiddly heals as that just wastes time that could have been used sendign out a bigger heal ) with Riptides being cast on CD also when moving around ice walls or other avoiding other crap.
Cheers
Niel
Quote from: Switchback;354943So i dont apprieciate comments about my movement from people who just have 2 things to do. All i can say is try my job. Also its a learnig curve but we had dispells going early and to not peoples grps,which then ending up killing others. For example Odd dispelled grim outside,a slow patch went down then i got frostflake which slows me even more...I get hit by ice wall and die. Then moaned at for my movement.
Ha Ha, nothing changed huh Switch ;)
Thanks for the post neil it makes alot of sense. I was on the side with 2 healers so yeah dispells were going out early. Which lead to deaths and such as i mention in my post above.
Odd dont worry mate you have kinda been thrown in the deep end. Running hcs with a grp that has more experience than you. As i said im struggling with this fight but i frustrasted myself...Instead of keeping calm i got the hump. Which again affected my performance. As niel says....we just need to focus on our grps to avoid patches being dropped etc. I know its a pain and that was your 1st night on her but with some more practise it will come together. As said in my above post lightning phase the runners wouldnt survive normaly so the combination of you and TL we are headed in the right direction so dont beat yourself up :boxing:
@ Drea....yeas mate every1 knows my movement is shoite :P I am getting better but this is quite a handful to heal. Im actually really enjoying the difficulty of these even with a 30% nerf lol. Cant wait to get back in there on monday with a fresh head and get the bitch down :)
Thx for the post Niel really helpfull :D.. Will try to learn from your wisdom :p
Quote from: Switchback;354943BUT! OMG Hermi!!!! Tonight i heard you on ts more than ive heard you in the whole time ive raided with you.!...this is great! i know you may not chat but your calls were great....please keep it up. Would rather a yes/no /dispell, than nothing and thats what we will need for these last few HC modes. Your dps has improved,movement and now talking. Seriously you dont know how happy that makes me. :)
Ty Switch :)
When I started playing WOW I was frost then I went arcane for long time.. now with the help of cynba and tons of training sessions with TL I begin to understand how to use fire specc..(and If I happen to get some loot) my dps can only increase...
You know that TS is my achilles heel..... but I'll always be a little more involved ... and who knows ... Maybe I could even chat :ranting2: (I think you missed my "torgen next" in a mixed run some time ago .. :narnar:)
Rgw got the kill... Did I miss the post?
Quote from: Sithvid;355271Rgw got the kill... Did I miss the post?
Nope, you just made it. Gz RGW. Good work!!
(http://www.deadmen.co.uk/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=1420&d=1343303755)
So after a break from attempting Hagara due to holidays, illness and work. We went back in and spent two nights getting the soaking correct, managing movement and dispels. It paid off.
Grats RGW and thanks to the input from RGT, especially those who joined in our efforts.
Gratz guys & gals :) i was lurking on TS while you got the kill and got a smile on my face when i heard the nerdscreams :)
Gz again! :)
Yay gj all & gz us! Still kicking myself for frapsing all the wipes but not the actual kill lol :ranting2: Hopefully won't make that mistake for warmaster :)
Gratz guys! Hopefully this will the only first kill i miss :p