just thought since RG team had their own post BG should have one too :)
we need another tank i think, sneaky isnt up for it skillwise (yet) or gearwise. a juggernaut would be nice. unless dandelion comes back shortly that is.
Are we going to run normal modes first. As far as I know we have several new Lv 50 players with little experience of raiding but who are keep to have a go. What's the plan for Blue Group as I'm not that familiar with the progression. Is it normal mode to hard mode or HM flashpoints to hardmode or a bit of both?
A little bit of both. Most of the gear will come from hm flashpoints but a full clear on normal is recommended before starting hm ops.
I haven't checked the gear of bg players but I am guessing a lot of them are already ready gear wise for hm ops.
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Not for me, still in orange gear from questing. Need to get on a few runs then.
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We will ofcourse start with a normal run, some of us don't have the gear and some havn't raided before.
So in normal we all have a change to see how the raiding is in swtor and giving a nice change to people to learn it. And gear up in the process.
Only problem BG has for comming thursday is that i can't make it and as said Sneaky aint tanking ready yet and with him out of the dps list we are short on dps.
On paper we have 3/4 tanks but Dandelion hasn't been heared of in a while. Sneaky aint ready yet.
We got 3 healers that is nice that we have a backup.
We got 5 dps, but bobbyfat hasn't been seen and TL can't raid on Thursdays as he is needed in wow. So that is 3 dps atm.
Oldie just hit 50 and I think he'd like a crack at raiding. I believe he's DPS spec as well..... merc
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so if OB signs up we still need a tank?
Am I right?
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for comming thursday might be the case, i don't know if sneaky can get some gear and learn how to play a tank to offtank stuff.
But if we get another dps we should at least be able to give it a go thursday.
I'd like to point out that whilst I signed up for BG, I had the caveat about WoW raid nights. Thursday is the first raid nightof the WoW week for DMR, so I cannot make any BG raids until I give up WoW or an additional night is added. One or the other will happen soon I'm sure.
Thanks TL we have been figuring this in to the calculation.
You guys will have a few players that have no exprience in this sort of thing at all some helpful hits and gentle words of encouragement will be needed, I am sure you will do this anyway but I thought best to put that out there.
Sharp, Ice, Gortex if you think we can run this week I am all for that no problems, if you feel it is better to postpone till the week after again I will support you. What I dont think will be good would be a start, stop, start beginning to BG.
I do think that if we dont go this week we should post up that the BG is coming and like Ice suggested run some FP HM to help them that dont have some gear to get there. And then start off from there. It will give you a better idea of players, they will have some kit and another week for more people to sign up.
If you need anything from just say and we will do our best to help with it guys. :)
I can't really do much this week. It will be up to Sharp and Gortex as i aint able to play thursday. If they feel that the group is ready to go this week then go for it, if we aint sure then wait a week and get some of the new players into flashpoints comming week and start of with a full group that has some more gear and experience on what to do in a raid.
I'm up for a bit of BG action but I'm greener than a green thing so would appreciate being eased in. I am DPS but need better gear of course.
give it until tuesday to see if we hear from dandelion. Another alternative is that i OT with sharp,hes according to vlad rdy for ot'ing in ops normal mode. Just do a check round with the newly 50s to see if any of em is up for ops.
also, i think in any instance we should look for a jugg tank, and maybe a marauder dps.
Well we have got 1 more DPS now which is good but not sure what level of gear etc he is he only ding yesterday. Tank wise we almost had one but he turned out to be a plank and guild quit before one of us could kick him. So we are still short a tank.
Bobbafat has also just dropped due to real life.
I dont think we can run this week, please tell me if I am wrong. What I would suggest is if you are willing is to organise some HM Flashpoints like Ice suggested, and also to take some people that have never been thought and help them learn what is expected.
Also as we are now only over 24 hours some people might not be able to attend.
Just a couple of thoughts :)
Just a note that only 1 of the 5 bosses in EV has a use for a second tank and it is not required for Pylons. Pylons use 2 tanks since the group is split in 2 but the targets that are attacking you are stunnable and CCable. They hurt alot but a tanking class that is DPS can easily hold them and enough stuns should be enough.
It might be to hard without a second tank for a low gear group. Lastly Varg will most likely not be in RGs op run so he could join as a DPS that has alot of tanking gear if needed.
Quote from: Drazila;346167Just a note that only 1 of the 5 bosses in EV has a use for a second tank and it is not required for Pylons. Pylons use 2 tanks since the group is split in 2 but the targets that are attacking you are stunnable and CCable. They hurt alot but a tanking class that is DPS can easily hold them and enough stuns should be enough.
It might be to hard without a second tank for a low gear group. Lastly Varg will most likely not be in RGs op run so he could join as a DPS that has alot of tanking gear if needed.
If the BG leaders want, I am happy to help out.
I believe a few hm flash points would be very useful. A few people new to raiding have said they'd like to get an induction to the way t raiding works.
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Sorry chaps for the delay in replying recently but real world stuff has gone crazy for me recently and just not found the time..
I made 50 last friday but only been on for an hour since due to above reasons and from reading the trail of the notes left we are not ready to do a raid just yet. I think another week with the newly made 50s getting some HM runs in and learning rotations etc would be a good idea and aim for next thursday 15th as the target date to start. I may well not be able to make this but will help out with the other leaders in getting it up and running.
The ops run has been delayed for Blue Group to next week, reason that to many people can't make it incl two of the three raidleaders. and because the run would happend with 24 hours so that would be to short to get the group together.
Plan is to get the people into flashpoints and get them some experience in team work and doing hardmodes. This will give the group some gear and experience and the last one is very nice as a few of the members havn't done something like this before.
I think that we should post up the roster for next week on Monday so everyone gets an early warning when they need to be ready.
I would also ask the raidleaders from the RG to keep an eye out if they can help someone out that would be awesome, as you guys have the experience already and we can learn alot from you guys ;)
were not ready to run ops today. learning rotations is up to each and every player, same with reading up on ure class/spec specifics. We are there to lead people, not to babysit em. If people cant get groups for hm's, thats fine, im happy to help out. BUT, the people from BG should put their heads together and start themselves. I read somewhere that smilodon hadnt done any hms at all, spite having been 50 a while? same with u gortex, i understand fully if u cant make the time for it due to work, but is this a problem that will persist? we need commited players in BG, alltho were just OP'sing once a week, and getting ure gear in order is part of that dedication
my 2 cents
PS: next thursdays should deffo be BG first ops night. no reason to postpone this any longer, people can get loads of gear just by doing the easier hms, like BP, Foundry and BT
I agree we are so close to running it but we did just run out of time as we couldnt confrim people but a roster should be made and published by Tuesday latest.
are we publishing blue group soon? give people a few days to respond if they can attend or not
it is already been posted on sunday http://www.deadmen.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?35420-BG-15-03-2012-EV-Normal-Roster
voyak has posted he is ill and most likely wont make it. that leaves us 1 healer short. im pretty sure bombafett is working this thursday, i can bring sharp to tank the normal modes no probs, but that leaves us 1 dps short as well. maybe revise the list a bit and look for an in guild healer. gear requirements for normal mode is not very high
ok let's get searching I am online tonight. I think a post on the forums.
Also has RG got a spear healer?
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Nope RG has no spare healer, BG is the only group that has 3 healers.
So we need 1 healer as backup incase Voyak aint able to come, and 1 tank or dps? and if a dps i would prefer a ranged dps.
well dps range there is smilodon.
are you guys around tonight for a quick chat? to try and sort this out :)
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We had some big help from Gromit today as healer and he did a great job. I also asked if he is up for doing ops with us in the future and he is up with that.
That gives the BG a 4th healer. I don't see a big problem with that for our group but RG has no backup healer at all so i don't know if he might be up for it etc to get into that group if the RG leaders agree aswell.
But give some idea's about this.
This is great news, glad he could help out :)
In regards to him doing OP's sign him up , of course where is the question?
Do RG need/want another healer?
Do BG need/want another healer?
Does he have a preference which group he would like to join?
I think the first 2 questions needs to answered, then we can talk to Gromit.
So RG & BG leaders you thoughts please.
I actually prefer it if people aren't set in the roles and are ready to switch healing/DPS or tanking/DPS if needed. Not everyone has to but it is better when people can do this since we can live with fewer people. At the moment I think RG needs one more person, preferably with Healer as main spec. While I think Gromit might be a great fit if he can regularly make it both nights ( know him in RL and not sure if he can ) but the problem is what class he is.
At the moment the class balance for us is
3/2 Sith Inquisitor
3 Sith Warriors
1/2 Imperial Agent
2 Bounty Hunters
We have a decent balance across the advanced classes as well with 1 of each class except Juggernaut and Sorcerer where we have 2. Gromit is a Sorcerer which causes some problems mostly with distribution of loot both reducing the amount of loot Inquisitors get but also causing a lot more of loot to not be usable ( at the moment Twyster is almost full rakata and has spare of a few pieces because he has been the only IA ).
But this is will be a problem for blue group as well since they have an imbalance as well with the ammount of inquisitors.
Just a note for you that looting in hard modes is back to rolling for items, not like normal mode where loot is assigned to players.
Quote from: Drazila;346793Just a note for you that looting in hard modes is back to rolling for items, not like normal mode where loot is assigned to players.
Thanks for the heads up for this.
It is a fair point with people being able to swtich and with dual spec coming soon ish this is going to be a help.
for todays run, if we are swapping people around within the groups, can i please have bombafett,krakenz,nystråla and myself in the blue group? were RL m8s and would love to get a operation run together.
as long as it doesnt screw the balance too bad ofc
edit: just tried to call Bombafett, he didnt respond, so Grimnar, its a fair chance were gonna need ure tanking skills.
Poke! http://www.deadmen.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?35533-RG-29.03.12-and-02.04.12
Anyone spoken to Grommit about going on to the RG ?
Quote from: BrotherTobious;347633Anyone spoken to Grommit about going on to the RG ?
I've mentioned it to him, but nothing official.
Well it seems that it is being discussed in the open forum. And I think it would be better if we had suggested and asked to confrim rather than he find out this way. Also with the comment he has been left of BG and doesnt know that he should be in RG, he seems a little upset.
There was discussion of him joining RG but we had never said that he was moved. the reason he is added to this weeks runs is not only because we are talking about him coming over but also because he wasn't on the rosters for this week in BG. I am still not sure if it is a good move permanently.
Well we need to make a decision and a perment one cause it is not really fair to him to be floating, and missing out on being rotated in to BG OP.
Over all I think he would be best in RG as that means you have a extra healer, I understand the whole gear thing, but I think the fact you have 3 healers is more of a piroity as recently it been a little close to people not being able to make it.
RG Leaders can you please let DC know by tomorrow before, OP if we move him to RG, or he becomes BG.
Then we can let him know what is going on and hopefully he is still up for doing OP's
Well my point was that he should have been in BG rotation already until a decision was made, he is a member of BG until it is said that he is in RG.
BG doesnt need 4 healers. The 3 original healers are more than enough seeing as they show up every time. If RG only has 2, the discussion is not needed, if he can come the days that RG runs.
Last week nystråla filled in for RG cause u were short when gromit was online. I really dont see the problem here, any particular reason u dont want gromit in? it takes a few days to get him up to speed running hm's gearwise.
I hope this is not turning towards that RG wants to pick the best geard healer from our group, cause thats not right at all.
Gear isn't an issue, and we certainly don't want to "pick the best geard healer" from BG or any other player based on gear. It was simply a case of us not wanting to do anything without your approval.
As far as what players we take into RG gear is the least of our worries. Player skill, commitment and attendance is what is important. If we take in member from BG, this would be only vie approval from BG leaders and the council. With a permanent addition to RG I think the only thing of discussion in the near future will be sharing of reserves between groups.
On the matter of Gromit specifically. He is under geared, yes, but this is a minor issue that is easily solved with some personal effort and support from the group. My concern with him is his lack of experience in MMOs and raiding in general. Don't get me wrong, I know Gromit IRL and he is a great guy, and he sure seems to put in the effort. He already has a stockpile of stims, does HM FPs for gear and seems motivated. Previous raid experience and knowledge about his own class is my main concerns. We give him a fair chance to get to where he needs to be, and see how it goes.
Being on that chain of thought already, moving on to Nightmare modes Soon^TM RG will have to have a certain level of skill in the group. I guess this goes for BG to some extent as well. We can't let the whole group suffer for the sake of 1 person that cannot cut it. It all comes down to what level you want to be at. There is no such thing as casual-nightmare mode.
Quote from: Sharpfang;347684BG doesnt need 4 healers. The 3 original healers are more than enough seeing as they show up every time. If RG only has 2, the discussion is not needed, if he can come the days that RG runs.
Last week nystråla filled in for RG cause u were short when gromit was online. I really dont see the problem here, any particular reason u dont want gromit in? it takes a few days to get him up to speed running hm's gearwise.
I hope this is not turning towards that RG wants to pick the best geard healer from our group, cause thats not right at all.
Nystråla stepped in because we were missing a DPS and to get a group together I respecced DPS so that nystråla could stay in the spec he is used to. Gromit could not join for that run because he didn't have the minimum health required for the boss we were at. Required health for Bonethrasher is minimum 15k and Gromit did not have that when Nystråla joined us and that is the only boss we could try at that time(except Soa who is harder and has the same Health requirement). The only reservations outside of what Varg said is the fact that we already have 2 sorcs and an assassin and it skews class balance even more. Gromit can join right now for 4-7 diffrent bosses with his current gear and that is why we asked if he could join for this weeks runs in RG.
The other point is that we will not say that anyone that is registered on the BG roster is a RG member unless the Council and BG clearly say that he is a member of RG and Gromit is on the BG roster partially due to the fact that you were missing a healer on your first run and he was online.
No one is choosing the best of any thing. If a member wants/needs/should be moved to RG or BG then as Varg and Drazilla said it will be discussed with all parties concerned, at the final descion will rest with The Dark Council.
The reason I made my post is that Gromit did not seem to impressed with BG roster as he is not it, and I was not sure where we were with him as I had asked Varg to talk to RG about gromit joining RG because that BG has 4 healers. There were some concerns either way yes or no, my view is he would help with numbers.
What I really want is an answer is he BG or RG, so he can be rotated in and out whichever team. By reading Vargs points, he is worried that he is not up to the amount of commitment needed and how he plays his class. Drazilla point about have x amount of people that will be wanting the same amount of gear. Gear is not really a issue imho for getting it as vargen has pointed out.
As if it doesnt work out and he needs to replaced or asked to step aside due to he isnt skilled enough or is the right fit then we will have to but this should also be taken in to account with the decision.
So lets do this, RG leaders, I need a yes or no answer for Gromit joining you. BG Leaders I need a yes or no you are still happy for him to join RG.
Whatever team he ends up with I would like to see him on the roster asap :)
I can see this might take longer than the time limit to sort out, but I would like to get this sorted at the latest by the next roster posting. As he has helped us out.
Thanks for all your input guys
at this point, BG cannot offer him a spot in the rotation. as backup,maybe, but our 3 original healers are showing up for every ops (cept for gortex perhaps) and it would not be fair to them as theyve waited a long time for BG to start doing ops.
edit: i do appreciate very much that he filled in that first run so we could get our first run, he seemed like a nice guy too
edit 2: we have 3 assasins an 2 sorcerers wo gromit
edit 3: i saw gortex posted hes not able to make it. its happened quite often,is this a problem that will continue?
On my part, I say yes to adding Gromit to RG, but with a trial period.
-------------------------
As for no room in BG. I get it, but then again isn't one of the goals with BG to have an alternative for the more casual players? Also if you have more people in BG, then having specific roles on everyone causes problems. Say you have 12 members. I would suggest that those classes that can fill 2 roles do just that. That way you can rotate people in the DPS pool as well as healing/tank giving you much more room for rotating.
I don't mean to tell you what you should or shouldn't do. Just offering my thoughts.
ive never heard nor said anything bout BG being more casual than RG. We do ops twice a week, the only difference between RG and BG as i see it is the time you have been doing ops.
As for classes that can fill 2 roles, we partially do that with sneaky. the problem is only that hes not very experienced nor confident tank. Same with me, i havnt healed a minute with Warm ever in this game, nor have i ever heald in any other mmo.
ideally our group setup would be 2 tanks, 3 ranged, 3 melee, 3 healers, but thats nothing weve discussed yet, just my personal opinion. We are lacking a bit on class balance due to us having so many inquisitors, but i dont think this will make or break our progress.
I find it weird thats there's no space for Gromit in BG.
There's no rule for using always the same members for OP'S group,just swap some.
Your group is gonna do 2 OP'S run in a week so there's space to change sometimes......
These are my thoughts..
On the second hand i also have no probs with Gromit joining us.
But he have to work for his gear pieces just like everyone did...that means doing FP HM.
TL is running with us on Mondays and getting slow his gear,takes some time but it will be good at the end.
This subject is closed!
This went along long enough with the only thing going on is yes/no crap.. and starting into a fight.
We are all together the management of this guild, if it is on the ops front or on any other level. We need to be an example to everyone else.
At this time the only thing we are doing is sort of fighting amongst our selves about something stupid. While we should be one steady team.
And remember it is not only about yourself it is about the whole guild.
So this subject stops here and will be handled furhter by Toby, Varg, Draz and myself.
Thank you.