As the title says.
I'll be fairly honest here. I haven't done an ops on the imp side for over a month now. This has been not too bad considering i'm doing ops with the republic chars and that has kept me entertained for a while, but even with that, I want to do ops on my jug, but there is just the severe distinct lack of people to run Denova. I've time and time again been told that said 'dark council' which I am to believe are the group of players dedicated to organising this guild and it's raids. I've kind of waiting long enough considering I am paying to play the game. On a side note I still have not been granted access to even withdraw 1 item from the guild bank, even though i spoke to toby personally when I was on and he said he'd sort it with the council, just something for you guys to think about in the future, guild bank that can't be used : purpose?. ;).
With all this said I'll leave it a week and see if things pick up. If not then I might just leave and find another guild/group that will be doing denova. I know it's no ones fault in particular why things are the way they are, people leave yeah I get it, but it has impacts on all of us and our play time. By the time we get a group ready to go to denova again, the next op will be out. And how much longer until another situation of this caliber will pop up? it's happened numerous times when I have been in this guild and i've had to go to lesser ops of my gear level and run it to get the new guy geared and the next and the next.
Everyone in the guild is great to talk to and so on, the guildies are great and it's a shame that I feel I have to leave it as it's a good guild with good members (krekla does not count as a good members ;) ). Perhaps in time I might come back depending on how things are.
Like I said i'll give it a week or so but judging by the way things are going, doesn't look good i'm afraid.
Sorry guys :(.
Of course it has to exclude me... But everything aside, if you leave, I'll haunt you!
Well, there was a bit of misunderstanding last week for the Red Group, since we ran BG anyways after the Merge has been announced, and now all of the group leaders are playing D3.. same goes for other players on our server. It feels a bit empty. I hope bioware are working on something to fix that, besides server transfer (maybe server merging), 'cause situation is starting to get out of hand.
Quote from: voyak;351016Well, there was a bit of misunderstanding last week for the Red Group, since we ran BG anyways after the Merge has been announced, and now all of the group leaders are playing D3.. same goes for other players on our server. It feels a bit empty. I hope bioware are working on something to fix that, besides server transfer (maybe server merging), 'cause situation is starting to get out of hand.
It's not only D3 though. Yesterday was the Norwegian Constitution day, and there are a few Norwegians here. Also with a lack of people already, we are affected more by people being away. I will be going on vacation next week and I know I'm not the only one who will be away.
Merging the groups has been the quickest way to ensure that ops actually are doable at this time, as we were unable to fill the slots we needed to keep two groups running 100%.
Along with people pulling out at the last minute on several occuations, we have had to run with who is about which has meant that den has been not been do able, new members also wanting to play.
Plus the lack of certain class rdp healers etc which we have tried to get people in on. And now we have new players coming up with them. It all been very choppy I can understand your frustration we all.share it mate.
I hope you don't leave and we are trying to sort ops gb and everything out. For you all
Fair enough about enough about the GB I dropped the ball on that.
Just one thing Tobi, whe cant wait over and over again for new players to join ops to get gear ect ect....this takes time.
There members that wanna move on hope you understand this.
As a retired SWTOR player but very experienced MMO player, hopefully you'll allow me the latitude to add my thoughts here:@KKND: It depends, hopefully people understand that you move on in an Op run as a group not as individuals. If someone plays the game solely for their personal benefit then they do not understand the team commitment an Op run presents. If people play the game to both see the Op runs and also benefit from the social community, then you'll see people stick around, put the effort in and help the guild progress.
@Sindri: Not really sure why you are not on Op runs. Are you not being picked? Are you being picked but the runs not happening due to absences? Are you not being picked because you are spending more time elsewhere and therefore not seen as available by the Op Leaders?
Quote from: SindriI've time and time again been told that said 'dark council' which I am to believe are the group of players dedicated to organising this guild and it's raids.
That sentence does not make sense to me. Could you explain you meant here please?
As an aside, MMOs are not easy to run, they get harder still when summer arrives and that coincides with an anticipated game release. What is required is for members to knuckle down and help with recruitment, remain active in the guild so that the guild is seen as active on a daily basis, and to help other members gear up to fulfill the guild objectives. Spending more time elsewhere does not help the activity levels of this guild and is sort of a self-fulfilling prophecy - "I'll come back when it's busy" means everyone will go elsewhere and then say "I told you so" when the guild is empty due to everyone being elsewhere. I realise you pay for the game, we all pay for our MMOs, but that's where you need to make the decision as to why you play.
You'll always have a turnover of people - even in other guilds - so the grass is not always greener on the other side. I've seen it so many times in WoW, all guilds have the same problems, what makes a guild different is how they and their members face up to and deal with those problems.
Keep working as a team - and give it more than a week. A week won't change anything and you know it, so if you want to give the guild a fair chance to answer your comments and to allow you to become part of the solution, then give them time to do so.
Quote from: TeaLeaf;351024@Sindri: Not really sure why you are not on Op runs. Are you not being picked? Are you being picked but the runs not happening due to absences? Are you not being picked because you are spending more time elsewhere and therefore not seen as available by the Op Leaders?
Ops runs are not happening right now due to a lack of raiders and/or people turning up - even with the groups merging.
I'm on holiday so just keeping in touch via the forums so I don't know if they managed a run last week.
Quote from: Twisted;351026Ops runs are not happening right now due to a lack of raiders and/or people turning up - even with the groups merging.
I'm on holiday so just keeping in touch via the forums so I don't know if they managed a run last week.
Yes whe did twist.
Quote from: Sindri;350988As the title says.
I'll be fairly honest here. I haven't done an ops on the imp side for over a month now. This has been not too bad considering i'm doing ops with the republic chars and that has kept me entertained for a while, but even with that, I want to do ops on my jug, but there is just the severe distinct lack of people to run Denova. I've time and time again been told that said 'dark council' which I am to believe are the group of players dedicated to organising this guild and it's raids. I've kind of waiting long enough considering I am paying to play the game. On a side note I still have not been granted access to even withdraw 1 item from the guild bank, even though i spoke to toby personally when I was on and he said he'd sort it with the council, just something for you guys to think about in the future, guild bank that can't be used : purpose?. ;).
With all this said I'll leave it a week and see if things pick up. If not then I might just leave and find another guild/group that will be doing denova. I know it's no ones fault in particular why things are the way they are, people leave yeah I get it, but it has impacts on all of us and our play time. By the time we get a group ready to go to denova again, the next op will be out. And how much longer until another situation of this caliber will pop up? it's happened numerous times when I have been in this guild and i've had to go to lesser ops of my gear level and run it to get the new guy geared and the next and the next.
Everyone in the guild is great to talk to and so on, the guildies are great and it's a shame that I feel I have to leave it as it's a good guild with good members (krekla does not count as a good members ;) ). Perhaps in time I might come back depending on how things are.
Like I said i'll give it a week or so but judging by the way things are going, doesn't look good i'm afraid.
Sorry guys :(.
I find this post bit strange Imho after today...
You make post bout ops but you dont show up last monday no message nothing..
Tuesday you pop online say nothing and disapers the way you came.!!
Both days had ops planned. none happend...
Can you inform us what your plans are.
Quote from: KKND;351296I find this post bit strange Imho after today...
You make post bout ops but you dont show up last monday no message nothing..
Tuesday you pop online say nothing and disapers the way you came.!!
Both days had ops planned. none happend...
Can you inform us what your plans are.
Easily explainable :).
- I never came on Monday because as i explained before, we would only be doing EV SM or something along those lines for members who need to get geared. I have already helped member after member (many of which have left or otherwise just never turned up again) to get geared and then they suddenly dissapear thus we cannot progress any further. I'm a bit pi**** off at this, that I should take time out of my day to help new guys get geared up when I should be doing the newest content and then have the new guys leave or not run ops for 4 weeks as a new game has came out that they cannot even take a couple of hours out of 1 day of the week or their new game to do an OP.
-Tuesday, I only come on Imho for OPS (which ain't happening), dailys (not currently doing) and to buy things from GTN to send to alts. So Of course I won't be on imho for long. I have a friend that also plays republic side with me so I can't stay and chat to whoever may be online at the time as me and him are pvping or doing FP's or alts etc.
- Both days did not specifically had a set OPS planned. Refer to my first point about how I feel about ops currently. Ops were going to run if we had the members on, but as I said before. It's of no use to me doing SM for people or HM for that matter and I'm done with wasting my time on people who may or may not stay in the guild or game.
- Also on thursday my Republic group runs OPS, we never used to due to me having to OPS with you guys but currently we are doing thursdays until (if) something is sorted here.
- As for leaving, Psykoo who used to be a member of this guild (also left due to the way ops were run) has a small guild which are currently on HM denova. Now what I find odd here is that they started story mode with their group when we were stearolling through HM's and yet they are now onto HM Denova. I believe his guild are always recruiting and have asked him if it's possible to join, he says yes. Like I have said. People are great in this guild so it's a damn well shame for me to leave. Alliances are coming soon for guilds though *hint*.
That's my piece kknd :p
The problem as I see it is what I referred to earlier in the thread.
If you don't turn up nobody can do the Op run as you're short of people.
If you're not turning up, then by the time you think the Op group is good enough for your presence then you'll have been replaced.
Do you not see the problem in your logic?
You can jump to another field if you think it's greener on the other side, but it's still the same grass.
I am sorry you feeling a bit annoyed at this but it is part of this, as we have lost members for whatever reason we need new members to have the gear so we can do the more challenging Ops. RG was mainly doing the HM and Progression, BG was doing normals and about to hit HM but due to people leaving we didnt have enough players to field a team that was able to do what was wanted.
Thus we have done more of the Normal modes to get some of the new guys in to gear to attempt the HM.
Hope that explains why we have had most of these changes.
Quote- I never came on Monday because as i explained before, we would only be doing EV SM or something along those lines for members who need to get geared. I have already helped member after member (many of which have left or otherwise just never turned up again) to get geared and then they suddenly dissapear thus we cannot progress any further. I'm a bit pi**** off at this, that I should take time out of my day to help new guys get geared up when I should be doing the newest content and then have the new guys leave or not run ops for 4 weeks as a new game has came out that they cannot even take a couple of hours out of 1 day of the week or their new game to do an OP.
Nobody needs to add anything to this - you've quite expertly shot yourself in the foot. Cheerio!
Quote from: Tutonic;351431Nobody needs to add anything to this - you've quite expertly shot yourself in the foot. Cheerio!
Please enlighten me.
If you mean it is quite contradictory that I help new members gear up, they no longer come online and I myself no longer come online for ops then I'll dissapoint you by telling you that I do still come online, but just not for ops. I shouldn't have to waste my time helping people gear up just to have them give an excuse such as "good game but i don't like it, so i'm leaving", how does that even work out?
@ Tealeaf: The Ops roster was always put up on here to determine who was going to be running an op beforehand. Now a few weeks after ops stopped altogether the roster was put up and it confused the living hell out of me. It appeared to me that an op was going to be run with 4 healers of different gear levels, 2 mdps and 1 tank, namely lurek. This also contributed to me not coming for ops. As I have said before, there are better things to be done with my own time than helping the news guys gear up. It isn't difficult to understand where I am coming from. I have helped people, they let the guild down, I no longer wish to help them. Simple as that. Lastly, I was also studying for exams the past month, so half the days ops were' scheduled' I wasn't able to appear. Now that they are done and I can come on most days for ops, I find that they are disorganised and a scheduled repeat of eternity vault which I have done a stupid many times, I hat to count them all. As you said grass is not greener on the otherside but some gardens look better than others :P
Even if I do turn up as you say, I know what members are still currently active and what ones are not. The main group as it were (red group) has lost significant dps. Even with enough members online I would be running EV or KP for the one millionth time and it bores me to tears frankly.
Again, apologies for sounding like a demanding noob but it's been over a month now without any progress being made. Heck if you want new guys geared up, pug people for story mode ops from the fleet. EV SM is incredibly easy, it doesn't require a set guild run.
Quote from: Sindri;351492Please enlighten me.
If you mean it is quite contradictory that I help new members gear up, they no longer come online and I myself no longer come online for ops then I'll dissapoint you by telling you that I do still come online, but just not for ops. I shouldn't have to waste my time helping people gear up just to have them give an excuse such as "good game but i don't like it, so i'm leaving", how does that even work out?
@ Tealeaf: The Ops roster was always put up on here to determine who was going to be running an op beforehand. Now a few weeks after ops stopped altogether the roster was put up and it confused the living hell out of me. It appeared to me that an op was going to be run with 4 healers of different gear levels, 2 mdps and 1 tank, namely lurek. This also contributed to me not coming for ops. As I have said before, there are better things to be done with my own time than helping the news guys gear up. It isn't difficult to understand where I am coming from. I have helped people, they let the guild down, I no longer wish to help them. Simple as that. Lastly, I was also studying for exams the past month, so half the days ops were' scheduled' I wasn't able to appear. Now that they are done and I can come on most days for ops, I find that they are disorganised and a scheduled repeat of eternity vault which I have done a stupid many times, I hat to count them all. As you said grass is not greener on the otherside but some gardens look better than others :P
Even if I do turn up as you say, I know what members are still currently active and what ones are not. The main group as it were (red group) has lost significant dps. Even with enough members online I would be running EV or KP for the one millionth time and it bores me to tears frankly.
Again, apologies for sounding like a demanding noob but it's been over a month now without any progress being made. Heck if you want new guys geared up, pug people for story mode ops from the fleet. EV SM is incredibly easy, it doesn't require a set guild run.
Sindri
This is a guild and we have to help each other I think the OP roster that was posted was what we had available at the time and making best of the situation. Sorry for the confusion and now we have a different method which we are trying and gathering more info to help it more.
In your posts you repeat your point that "why should you help people" well here is the answer because we are a guild, it is what we do to make this game fun, it is a TEAM game we work together on Ops and Worldbosses and even heroic 4 +. If we are only playing this for ourselves then we might as well go and play a single RPG.
Another reason that we should all help people is that we are all at different level but if we can get a group of us that can be near all the same level we will be able to do more of the challenging OP's, if we dont help them and just think sod em, then they wont be able to progress and become part of the team for OP's.
Now one of our issues is that people have left, well there is no much we can do about that, this is a free world and if they have tried it and not like the game then I am not going to make them play or pay for it. It is not my job or right to do that. Yes it is frustrating but thats life we, say fair well thanks for the fun doors always open. Then we work on getting people to replace them. Thus the helping new players get in to a position so we can do the progression and HM/NM.
Now if we dont do this then we wont have enough members to actualy do OP's at all, as you state that Red Group lost a lots of DPS this merger was to help combat the loss, but a lot of the people that were going to be filling in didnt have the gear or experience to run thus the running of EV and Kraggas.
Also we can not do runs if people do not turn up, now whatever the issue is that they cant effects that run. Thus we cant get the people experience or the gear.
And if your attitude is oh another kragga or ev run and you dont want to do it then ok fair be it we cant make you, but you will have to understand that we have to do this to get the numbers so that we can move forward.
We have tried some advertising and had a little bit of luck, but to be honest the best ones so far have come from with in the guild and community.
Also the nights have not change it still Monday, Tuesday and Thursday that we run OPs, and if your other guild is running on those days I am sorry but you knew the nights we run. It might be a idea to think about which direction you want to take your characters if you feel this way. Now I am not saying I want you to leave, far from it you have been a great OP runner, but from reading you posts it seems you have already made a decision.
We are far from perfect but we are bloody well trying hard to make this work for everyone.
I hope that this gives you the answers you are looking for, and better understanding where we are coming from. And I hope to see you on a OP run very soon.
Quote from: BrotherTobious;351497Sindri
This is a guild and we have to help each other I think the OP roster that was posted was what we had available at the time and making best of the situation. Sorry for the confusion and now we have a different method which we are trying and gathering more info to help it more.
In your posts you repeat your point that "why should you help people" well here is the answer because we are a guild, it is what we do to make this game fun, it is a TEAM game we work together on Ops and Worldbosses and even heroic 4 +. If we are only playing this for ourselves then we might as well go and play a single RPG.
Another reason that we should all help people is that we are all at different level but if we can get a group of us that can be near all the same level we will be able to do more of the challenging OP's, if we dont help them and just think sod em, then they wont be able to progress and become part of the team for OP's.
Now one of our issues is that people have left, well there is no much we can do about that, this is a free world and if they have tried it and not like the game then I am not going to make them play or pay for it. It is not my job or right to do that. Yes it is frustrating but thats life we, say fair well thanks for the fun doors always open. Then we work on getting people to replace them. Thus the helping new players get in to a position so we can do the progression and HM/NM.
Now if we dont do this then we wont have enough members to actualy do OP's at all, as you state that Red Group lost a lots of DPS this merger was to help combat the loss, but a lot of the people that were going to be filling in didnt have the gear or experience to run thus the running of EV and Kraggas.
Also we can not do runs if people do not turn up, now whatever the issue is that they cant effects that run. Thus we cant get the people experience or the gear.
And if your attitude is oh another kragga or ev run and you dont want to do it then ok fair be it we cant make you, but you will have to understand that we have to do this to get the numbers so that we can move forward.
We have tried some advertising and had a little bit of luck, but to be honest the best ones so far have come from with in the guild and community.
Also the nights have not change it still Monday, Tuesday and Thursday that we run OPs, and if your other guild is running on those days I am sorry but you knew the nights we run. It might be a idea to think about which direction you want to take your characters if you feel this way. Now I am not saying I want you to leave, far from it you have been a great OP runner, but from reading you posts it seems you have already made a decision.
We are far from perfect but we are bloody well trying hard to make this work for everyone.
I hope that this gives you the answers you are looking for, and better understanding where we are coming from. And I hope to see you on a OP run very soon.
I understand all this but I'll break it down what I am saying again :).
- Like you said, it's a free world and people can go do whatever they like. You also mentioned it is a guild we help one another. That I have done but as I explained I have helped many a person but as I said in my previous posts it is all for not.
- Not everyone leaves but many go and play new/other games which is fair enough but for the sake of ops people should at least have a sense of fairness on others and run ops for the few hours of a night or 2 during the week they are on and give the other game a miss for those tiny few hours. In a guild you need a bit of dedication but I just haven't seen it from a few people.
- I understand the EV and KP situation. What my point was (referring back to my first point in this post) I have other things to do in my life than run ops for the sake of people whom I don't know if they will turn out like the others and leave or quit or lack dedication to ops nights. (real life situations are exceptions ofc, I mean going and playing another game on ops night etc).
- I know it's a team game, or at least aspects of it are. H4's are incredibly useless imo, you can gain triple the amount of XP by doing normal quests in the time it takes to get a group and do a h4. World bosses, again very useless unless you are below 50 or unless it's the nightmare pilgrim (need rakata/bh gear).
- At times I have come on (even earlier today) I was the only member online. People keep telling me in this guild that you have to learn to help others regardless of what their choices about games might be, well can't do that if there are no other guildies on.
- I know the situation about OPS as I have repeatedly stated. All I posted originally for was to let you know I want to move on and do the new content in the game. I bought it for to play and enjoy but I cannot enjoy playing a character that has nothing to do.
- The one thing I do outside of ops is PvP, again very few members in this guild want to/do/play pvp, and i'd rather run it with a premade group as I have done in my previous mmo experience.
- I know officers are trying hard to get things organised, but i'm just expressing my sole fact that I want to play the game, not log on a character to run heroics with lower levels all day and night until ops are sorted. The odd heroic or 2 I could help with but again they are very useless and time consuming.
- Tuesday is a day that has been recently added. I posted in the thread saying tuesdays are not available to me. Thursday is flexible I could make it. Again tuesday was made an ops day after I said I run republic ops on that day, so cannot help out much that day.
- Referring back to my first post. Guild bank. Still cannot use it. I have even seen some of the new guys when I am on ask why they can't access it, I cannot even access it for them. Why have a guild bank that can't be used?
- Like I said, many of the parts of a guild are missing, pvp groups, no guild bank access.
- Whether I leave or not is a different matter. Hope that answered your points.
-
This thread seems to be a circular argument, so what are you going to actually do about it Sindri? The invitation is there to be part of the solution, but the decision is yours to take.
Quote from: TeaLeaf;351514This thread seems to be a circular argument, so what are you going to actually do about it Sindri? The invitation is there to be part of the solution, but the decision is yours to take.
I added in my thoughts about having pvp groups and opening the guild bank to people would be another big help to the guild. That get dismissed eh?
I'm not just talking about ops here.
And how can I be part of the solution when I am the only one online half of the time when I come on?
I'm not Dark Council so you need to ask them, but from reading your guild forums the guild bank is already done and PVP won't happen unless people (inc you) are online, plus it takes time to organise. The attendance bit is confusing as some people (inc some Dark Council members) have reported you as a no-show for Op nights or logging on and straight off again, yet you're saying you are the only one online when you log on, there's a disjoint there.
If you want to be part of the solution then I'd direct your questions in person to a Dark Council member as public forum debates are rarely the most effective way of doing things, as you are no doubt finding out.
Quote from: TeaLeaf;351521I'm not Dark Council so you need to ask them, but from reading your guild forums the guild bank is already done
We do have a guild bank, but you need to request an item from an officer. That is the bit Sindri doesn't like.
We only have one tab and I'm channelling all my spare funds for a 2nd tab which I've already agreed with Toby to be open access for all if the system allows us to control the 1st tab still.
So far I've raised 200k and I'll probably donate another 200k today.
Quoteand PVP won't happen unless people (inc you) are online, plus it takes time to organise.
Well, there was more active PvP players here than there ever were during my time with the WoW guild.
But you're right, it's not organised and is very ad-hoc. Normally late at night or a few hours before raid time.
Even though I've been doing a lot of levelling alts lately it's all for PvP on my main so that I have every class buff available at all time.
This is because each time you die you lose your buffs. And the chances are that no one will be near the start point with you.
So you don't get them back. And a flat 5% boost across the important secondary stats is not to be sniffed at. Maybe others are presently doing the same as myself for rated Warzones when they come out.
Quote from: Twisted;351540Even though I've been doing a lot of levelling alts lately it's all for PvP on my main so that I have every class buff available at all time.
This is because each time you die you lose your buffs. And the chances are that no one will be near the start point with you.
So you don't get them back. And a flat 5% boost across the important secondary stats is not to be sniffed at. Maybe others are presently doing the same as myself for rated Warzones when they come out.
What he said the extra buffs are very important for pvp:D but also on the other side of it the extra buffs are good for ops, as i means if you need to be combat rezzed then simply hit one button and back to full buffs:D
but as for me i have been away the last week or so due to family commitments that i could not break and other problems thay have cropped up that atleast tobi and ice know about. But that being said i will be back online this week ready to kick ass or gear new people up what ever, as long as i get a run of some sort because the gear runs give me that always need experince to hone your skills and make they always say "Pracrtice Make perfect!"
but the bottom line of it is if you want to do the raids then turn up and lets see what happens. If not then dont turn up. and if you want to leave then do so. Please dont take this the wrong way I personally dont want to see you leave etc and will miss having you in the ops. But things have to bared with as its the summer now and games like this will always have a lull period during the summer what with the nice weather and holidays and other things popping up.
cheers
Bell (aka Talset)
Quote from: Twisted;351540We do have a guild bank, but you need to request an item from an officer. That is the bit Sindri doesn't like.
We only have one tab and I'm channelling all my spare funds for a 2nd tab which I've already agreed with Toby to be open access for all if the system allows us to control the 1st tab still.
So far I've raised 200k and I'll probably donate another 200k today.
I drained all funds from my various alts and have donated another 800k, making 1M in total which means we should be able to buy another tab which hopefully Toby can make public access!
I will make sure I can before purchasing it twisted. This will be mainly used to help people with levelling and such if you want something this slight more special then you have to ask a officer.
Thanks again for this generous donation mate.
Well with ranked WZ's especially next patch and 8 man premades being available, having a group of guildies willing to pvp a few nights and what not (much easier to gear up pvp wise than pve), then i'd be more than happy to participate in this.. If we don't have 8 people for a premade then even a 4 man group will work. I know twist for example does pvp a good bit. Grimnar and nystralia used to as well, if they still come on. (on the buff note, I have all 4 available to me :p).
I started a thread about our PVP premade so everyone willing can sign up there. So far we have 3 people including me. After a few more sign up, I'll start writing a bit more about it and hopefully we'll have a separate section for it on the forums, which would be cool, but later on.
Sent from my HTC Desire Z
Quote from: voyak;351563I started a thread about our PVP premade so everyone willing can sign up there. So far we have 3 people including me. After a few more sign up, I'll start writing a bit more about it and hopefully we'll have a separate section for it on the forums, which would be cool, but later on.
Sent from my HTC Desire Z
+1 but i'll post it in pvp forum